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Nephi 3 & 4

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  • Daniel Myers
    aiya! Okay, now that i ve finished my homework I can do something useful ;) I ve had these two verses for a while, so I figured I d post them while I have
    Message 1 of 10 , Oct 3, 2002
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      aiya!

      Okay, now that i've finished my homework I can do something useful ;)

      I've had these two verses for a while, so I figured I'd post them
      while I have time...

      verse three:
      And I know that the record which I make is true; and I make it with
      mine own hand; and I make it according to my knowledge.

      Ar istan sa i quentasta ya carin naa anwa; ar carinyes maanyanen
      veera; ar carinyes nolmenyanainen.

      This translates pretty close:
      And I know that the record which I make is true; and I make it with
      my own hand; and I make it with my knowledge.


      here's verse four:
      For it came to pass in the commencement of the first year of the
      reign of Zedekiah, king of Judah, (my father, Lehi, having dwelt in
      Jerusalem in all his days); and in that same year there came many
      prophets, prophesying unto the people that they must repent, or the
      great city Jerusalem must be destroyed.

      An martanes i yessesse i coranaro minya i hereon Sedecaio, aran Yudo,
      (atarinya, Liihai, marne Yeruusalemesse ilya arerya); ar yana coranar
      tulne rimba meneldur, meneldura lienna sa uucaravartante [must], var
      i alta osto Yeruusaleme nauva [destroyed].

      Translates to:
      For it happened in the beginning of the first year of the governance
      of Zedekiah, king of Judah, (my father, Lehi, dwelt in Jerusalem all
      his days); and that year came many prophets, prophesying to the
      people that they [must] repent, or the great city Jerusalem will be
      [destroyed].

      These words were created/mishmashed:
      *_Sedecaio_ = Zedekiah - *_Sedecaia_ + genitive
      *_Yudo_ = Judah - *_Yuda_ + genetive
      *_Yeruusaleme[sse] = Jerusalem - *_Yeruusaleme_ [+ locative]
      *_meneldur_ = prophet - _menel_ 'heaven' + _-dur_ 'servant'
      *_meneldura-_ = prophesy... made from *_meneldur_...
      *_uucaravartante_ = repent - _uucare_ 'sin' + *_avarta-_ 'forsake'
      (PPQ) + _-nte_ 'they'

      oh, btw, what was the 'casual' good-bye in Quenya?

      Dan Myers
    • Petri Tikka
      ... [...] ... Pretty good, but _nolme_ can also mean Philosophy (including Science) (PM:360 cf. 344). Better to use _hande_ knowledge, understanding
      Message 2 of 10 , Oct 3, 2002
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        Some commentary to follow:

        --- In quenya@y..., "Daniel Myers" <avorix@h...> wrote:
        [...]
        > verse three:
        > And I know that the record which I make is true; and I make it with
        > mine own hand; and I make it according to my knowledge.
        >
        > Ar istan sa i quentasta ya carin naa anwa; ar carinyes maanyanen
        > veera; ar carinyes nolmenyanainen.

        Pretty good, but _nolme_ can also mean "Philosophy (including
        Science)" (PM:360 cf. 344). Better to use _hande_ "knowledge,
        understanding" (LR:363).

        [...]

        > here's verse four:
        > For it came to pass in the commencement of the first year of the
        > reign of Zedekiah, king of Judah, (my father, Lehi, having dwelt in
        > Jerusalem in all his days); and in that same year there came many
        > prophets, prophesying unto the people that they must repent, or the
        > great city Jerusalem must be destroyed.
        >
        > An martanes i yessesse i coranaro minya i hereon Sedecaio, aran
        Yudo,

        You meant *_héreo_ from _hére_ "lordship"(LT1:272), right? Why do you
        coppy the English pronunciation and not the original one in your
        translation? It makes no sense: Tolkien didn't translate "Jesus" as
        ***_Dsiisus_ or **_Hyísus_, but _Yésus_ (VT43). Intervocalic _d_
        developed to _r_ in Quenya, cf. _rerin_ "I sow" < RED (LR:383).

        > (atarinya, Liihai, marne Yeruusalemesse ilya arerya); ar yana
        coranar

        You need the locative case here.

        > tulne rimba meneldur, meneldura lienna sa uucaravartante [must],
        var

        UGH! ***_ln_ is impossible in Quenya.

        > i alta osto Yeruusaleme nauva [destroyed].

        [...]

        > These words were created/mishmashed:

        These words are indeed mishmash. Luckily that cannot be said from
        good reconstructions, done with knowledge and thought.

        > *_Sedecaio_ = Zedekiah - *_Sedecaia_ + genitive

        no, no, No, No, NO, ABSOLUTELY NO!! No intervocalic _d_ in Noldorin
        Quenya, no three vowels in a succession. Both impossible.

        > *_Yudo_ = Judah - *_Yuda_ + genetive

        no, no, No, No, NO, ABSOLUTELY NO!! No intervocalic _d_ in Noldorin
        Quenya.

        > *_Yeruusaleme[sse] = Jerusalem - *_Yeruusaleme_ [+ locative]

        no, no, No, No, NO, ABSOLUTELY NO!! Why the long vowel? It is not so
        in the original language.

        > *_meneldur_ = prophet - _menel_ 'heaven' + _-dur_ 'servant'

        no, no, No, No, NO, ABSOLUTELY NO!! Prophesy means "spokesman" and is
        derrived from _pro-_ + _pheemi_.

        > *_meneldura-_ = prophesy... made from *_meneldur_...

        no, no, No, No, NO, ABSOLUTELY NO!! Derriving words from horrid and
        illogical de-constructions...

        > *_uucaravartante_ = repent - _uucare_ 'sin' + *_avarta-_ 'forsake'
        > (PPQ) + _-nte_ 'they'

        no, no, No, No, NO, ABSOLUTELY NO!! Why make such awkward and
        illogical reconstructions, when there is the possibility to
        paraphrase? Ai!!!

        > oh, btw, what was the 'casual' good-bye in Quenya?

        _Mára mesta_

        > Dan Myers

        -Petri Tikka aka The Enemy of Idiotic Reconstructions
      • Daniel Myers
        and the rebuttal... ... with ... easy enough ... in ... the ... Actually I meant _heren_ governance (Etym KHER-). That s what I get when I read off a laptop
        Message 3 of 10 , Oct 4, 2002
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          and the rebuttal...

          --- In quenya@y..., "Petri Tikka" <kari.j.tikka@w...> wrote:
          > Some commentary to follow:
          >
          > --- In quenya@y..., "Daniel Myers" <avorix@h...> wrote:
          > [...]
          > > verse three:
          > > And I know that the record which I make is true; and I make it
          with
          > > mine own hand; and I make it according to my knowledge.
          > >
          > > Ar istan sa i quentasta ya carin naa anwa; ar carinyes maanyanen
          > > veera; ar carinyes nolmenyanainen.
          >
          > Pretty good, but _nolme_ can also mean "Philosophy (including
          > Science)" (PM:360 cf. 344). Better to use _hande_ "knowledge,
          > understanding" (LR:363).

          easy enough

          > [...]
          >
          > > here's verse four:
          > > For it came to pass in the commencement of the first year of the
          > > reign of Zedekiah, king of Judah, (my father, Lehi, having dwelt
          in
          > > Jerusalem in all his days); and in that same year there came many
          > > prophets, prophesying unto the people that they must repent, or
          the
          > > great city Jerusalem must be destroyed.
          > >
          > > An martanes i yessesse i coranaro minya i hereon Sedecaio, aran
          > Yudo,
          >
          > You meant *_héreo_ from _hére_ "lordship"(LT1:272), right?

          Actually I meant _heren_ "governance" (Etym KHER-). That's what I
          get when I read off a laptop screen while i'm typing it onto a
          desktop...

          > Why do you
          > coppy the English pronunciation and not the original one in your
          > translation? It makes no sense: Tolkien didn't translate "Jesus" as
          > ***_Dsiisus_ or **_Hyísus_, but _Yésus_ (VT43). Intervocalic _d_
          > developed to _r_ in Quenya, cf. _rerin_ "I sow" < RED (LR:383).
          >
          > > (atarinya, Liihai, marne Yeruusalemesse ilya arerya); ar yana
          > coranar
          >
          > You need the locative case here.

          on _coranar_, right? so _coranaresse_?

          > > tulne rimba meneldur, meneldura lienna sa uucaravartante [must],
          > var
          >
          > UGH! ***_ln_ is impossible in Quenya.

          Then what exactly is the past tense of _tul-_ "come"? (which, by the
          way, is well attested...)

          > > i alta osto Yeruusaleme nauva [destroyed].
          >
          > [...]
          >
          > > These words were created/mishmashed:
          >
          > These words are indeed mishmash. Luckily that cannot be said from
          > good reconstructions, done with knowledge and thought.
          >
          > > *_Sedecaio_ = Zedekiah - *_Sedecaia_ + genitive
          >
          > no, no, No, No, NO, ABSOLUTELY NO!! No intervocalic _d_ in Noldorin
          > Quenya, no three vowels in a succession. Both impossible.

          okay, thanks, i didn't know that. I've only been writing Quenya for
          four months, and started learning it five months ago...

          > > *_Yudo_ = Judah - *_Yuda_ + genetive
          >
          > no, no, No, No, NO, ABSOLUTELY NO!! No intervocalic _d_ in Noldorin
          > Quenya.
          >
          > > *_Yeruusaleme[sse] = Jerusalem - *_Yeruusaleme_ [+ locative]
          >
          > no, no, No, No, NO, ABSOLUTELY NO!!

          Did you type this each time, or did you cut & paste it?

          > Why the long vowel? It is not so
          > in the original language.

          Care to enlighten me?

          > > *_meneldur_ = prophet - _menel_ 'heaven' + _-dur_ 'servant'
          >
          > no, no, No, No, NO, ABSOLUTELY NO!! Prophesy means "spokesman" and
          is
          > derrived from _pro-_ + _pheemi_.

          Give me a break. I'm a high school senior, not some professor of
          european languages.

          > > *_meneldura-_ = prophesy... made from *_meneldur_...
          >
          > no, no, No, No, NO, ABSOLUTELY NO!! Derriving words from horrid and
          > illogical de-constructions...

          then how about telling me, or suggesting to me, ideas on how I could
          improve? how about "heaven-speaker" 'prophet' and "heaven-
          speak" 'prophesy'?

          > > *_uucaravartante_ = repent - _uucare_ 'sin' + *_avarta-
          _ 'forsake'
          > > (PPQ) + _-nte_ 'they'
          >
          > no, no, No, No, NO, ABSOLUTELY NO!! Why make such awkward and
          > illogical reconstructions, when there is the possibility to
          > paraphrase? Ai!!!

          THEN WHY DON'T YOU GIVE ME A GLIMPSE OF YOUR ENLIGHTENED STATE OF
          MIND!!!???? [sorry for all caps, i'm somewhat frustrated...]

          now I think I should point out that you shouldn't criticize someone's
          created/mishmashed words unless you have a suggestion of your own.
          Got any?

          > > oh, btw, what was the 'casual' good-bye in Quenya?
          >
          > _Mára mesta_

          Thank you. Is there a source for that?
          and, I thought _maara_ was only "fit, useful, good (of things)". Can
          it be used for "morally good"?

          > > Dan Myers
          >
          > -Petri Tikka aka The Enemy of Idiotic Reconstructions

          indeed.

          I don't want to start a flame war...
          but you do seem a little... arrogant...
          At least I'm trying.

          Mára mesta.

          Dan Myers, aka The Enemy of Useless Criticism
        • Petri Tikka
          ... HAH! ... OK ... Yes ... _túle_ (LR:47). ... Then you should have read Appendix F of LotR, where it reads that _d_ in Quenya is only allowed in the
          Message 4 of 10 , Oct 5, 2002
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            --- In quenya@y..., "Daniel Myers" <avorix@h...> wrote:
            >
            and the rebuttal...
            HAH!

            > --- In quenya@y..., "Petri Tikka"
            <kari.j.tikka@w...> wrote:
            > > Some commentary to follow:

            > > You meant *_héreo_ from _hére_
            "lordship"(LT1:272), right?
            >
            > Actually I meant _heren_
            "governance" (Etym KHER-).  That's what I
            > get when I read off a
            laptop screen while i'm typing it onto a
            > desktop...
            OK 

            > > You need the locative
            case here.
            >
            > on _coranar_, right?  so
            _coranaresse_?
            Yes

            > > UGH! ***_ln_ is impossible in Quenya.
            >
            > Then what exactly is the past tense of _tul-_ "come"? (which,
            by the
            > way, is well attested...)
             
            _túle_ (LR:47).

            > > no, no, No, No, NO, ABSOLUTELY NO!! No intervocalic _d_ in
            Noldorin
            > > Quenya, no three vowels in a succession. Both
            impossible.
            >
            > okay, thanks, i didn't know that.  I've only
            been writing Quenya for
            > four months, and started learning it five
            months ago...
             
            Then you should have read Appendix F of LotR, where it reads
            that _d_ in Quenya is only allowed in the clusters _nd_, _ld_
            and _rd_. 

            > > Why the long vowel? It is not so
            > > in the original
            language.
            >
            > Care to enlighten me?

            In English, a vowel is lengthened when it receives stress. Stress often
            comes to third from the last syllable. Thus in English _Jerusalem_ receives
            stress and a long vowel to _u_. But in Finnish, the word has remained
            unchanged in this respect and has no long vowel. You see? It is much
            better to adapt _Jerusalem_ to Quenya as it is pronounced in the original
            language, or as close as possible. The end result: *_Yerusalen_. Final _m_
            changed to _n_ in Quenya,  cf. _talan_ < TALAM in the Etymologies.

            >
            > no, no, No, No, NO, ABSOLUTELY NO!! Prophesy means "spokesman" and
            >
            is
            > > derrived from _pro-_ + _pheemi_. 
            >
            > Give
            me a break.  I'm a high school senior, not some professor of
            >
            european languages.
            Neither am I,  but that doesen't stop me from using an English dictionary
            to find out simple etymologies.

            > > no, no, No, No, NO, ABSOLUTELY NO!! Derriving words from
            horrid and
            > > illogical de-constructions...
            >
            > then how
            about telling me, or suggesting to me, ideas on how I could
            >
            improve?  how about "heaven-speaker" 'prophet' and "heaven-
            > speak"
            'prophesy'?
            No, I dont't think so. _pro-_ means "for" (they are actually from the same
            Indo-European stem). _pheemi_ means speak. *_anquet-_ would be an
            exact transltion. *_anquetindo_ would be "prophet", *_anquetta_ "prophesy".

            > > no, no, No, No, NO, ABSOLUTELY NO!! Why make such awkward and
            > > illogical reconstructions, when there is the possibility to
            > > paraphrase? Ai!!! 
            >
            > THEN WHY DON'T YOU GIVE
            ME A GLIMPSE OF YOUR ENLIGHTENED STATE OF
            > MIND!!!???? [sorry for all
            caps, i'm somewhat frustrated...]
            So am I, I should have expected such a response.

            > now I think I should point out that you shouldn't criticize
            someone's
            > created/mishmashed words unless you have a suggestion of your
            own. 
            > Got any?
            One can very well point out that something is bad without providing a better
            suggestion. For example, I'll say that "bludshndu" isn't English. Does it
            make it any worse a comment if I don't provide a better option? No, it most
            certainly doesen't.
             
            You could just kept the noun and the verb seperate, not invent a new word
            with a construction that is not exemplified anywhere in the published corpus.

            > > _Mára mesta_
            >
            > Thank you.  Is there a
            source for that?
             
            "The Father Christmas Letters by J.R.R Tolkien"
            The pages vary pre edition, but it's in a letter
            from 1929, if I rembember correctly.

            > and, I thought _maara_ was only "fit, useful, good (of
            things)".  Can
            > it be used for "morally good"?
             
            Yes, _mára_ is probably not used for "moral good", but "good-by"
            doesen't imply "moral good" to me. And who knows what the
            exact translation is?

            > > -Petri Tikka aka The Enemy of Idiotic Reconstructions
            >
            > indeed.
            >
            > I don't want to start a flame war...
            >
            but you do seem a little... arrogant...
             
            AHA! I could say the same thing about you. :-)

            > At least I'm trying.
            Of course. Your translation seemes quite good actually,
            expect for the "de-constructions".

            > Mára mesta.
            >
            > Dan Myers, aka The Enemy of Useless
            Criticism
             
            You are? So am I!
             
            mára mesta,
             
            -Petri Tikka aka Petrus Samuli Tikkanen
          • Thomas Ferencz
            Jumping on the bandwagon... ... are you implying, that *tulle is an illogical reconstruction? ... **except for _ada_ against which appeared in one of the
            Message 5 of 10 , Oct 5, 2002
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              Jumping on the bandwagon...
              --- Petri Tikka <kari.j.tikka@...> wrote:

              >
              > > > UGH! ***_ln_ is impossible in Quenya.
              > >
              > > Then what exactly is the past tense of _tul-_
              > "come"? (which, by the
              > > way, is well attested...)
              >
              > _t�le_ (LR:47).


              are you implying, that *tulle is an illogical
              reconstruction?

              >
              > > > no, no, No, No, NO, ABSOLUTELY NO!! No
              > intervocalic _d_ in Noldorin

              **except for _ada_ "against" which appeared in one of
              the Vinyar Tengwar 43:33


              > > > Quenya, no three vowels in a succession. Both
              > impossible.

              **what about oio?



              > No, I dont't think so. _pro-_ means "for" (they are
              > actually from the same
              > Indo-European stem). _pheemi_ means speak.
              > *_anquet-_ would be an
              > exact transltion. *_anquetindo_ would be "prophet",
              > *_anquetta_ "prophesy".


              **I would rather suggest r� "on behalf of, for", it
              suits the desired meaning better IMHO


              BTW, Petri, with all respect, you _were_ a bit
              arrogant. In my very humble opinion.

              Bye,

              Thomas Ferencz

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            • Petri Tikka
              Náven nanquete Quenanen, an sina mílin liste ná liste tecien Quenyanen. ... Lá, lá, lá sinten sie! Nás líme mára. E quítas ea úistaine
              Message 6 of 10 , Oct 5, 2002
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                Náven nanquete Quenanen, an sina "mílin liste" ná "liste"
                tecien Quenyanen.

                --- In quenya@y..., Thomas Ferencz <percival64@y...> wrote:
                > Jumping on the bandwagon...
                > --- Petri Tikka <kari.j.tikka@w...> wrote:
                >
                > > _túle_ (LR:47).
                >
                >
                > are you implying, that *tulle is an illogical
                > reconstruction?

                Lá, lá, lá sinten sie! Nás líme mára.
                E quítas ea úistaine sarmessen:
                http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Parthenon/9902/unpub.html
                _túle_ ná sie mára vanwie-tanwe
                síve _unduláve_ var _váne_.

                > > > > no, no, No, No, NO, ABSOLUTELY NO!! No
                > > intervocalic _d_ in Noldorin Quenya
                >
                > **except for _ada_ "against" which appeared in one of
                > the Vinyar Tengwar 43:33

                Sinten sa mo cé ortuva _ada_ amba, inye sinte sa!
                Mal sa lá Quenya: "(in apparent contrast with
                another ROOT, _ada_ 'against, opposed to, opposite')"
                (VT43:33, antoryame ninya).

                > > > > Quenya, no three vowels in a succession. Both
                > > impossible.
                >
                > **what about oio?

                Sie ná! Elye anwasse! Eque Fangorne: "Antyelca!" :-)

                > > No, I dont't think so. _pro-_ means "for" (they are
                > > actually from the same
                > > Indo-European stem). _pheemi_ means speak.
                > > *_anquet-_ would be an
                > > exact transltion. *_anquetindo_ would be "prophet",
                > > *_anquetta_ "prophesy".
                >
                >
                > **I would rather suggest rá "on behalf of, for", it
                > suits the desired meaning better IMHO

                Inye camta. *_ráquet-_, *_ráquetindo_ ar *_ráquetta_ san.

                > BTW, Petri, with all respect, you _were_ a bit
                > arrogant. In my very humble opinion.

                Tana quíta sie, ni lá sie alafaila
                sa cé lalanyes. ;-)

                > Bye,
                >
                > Thomas Ferencz

                Mára mesta,

                -Petri Tikka var Alafaila Arandil
              • Thomas Ferencz
                Aiya, ... **Mentatéma? Message-series ? ... Mana tehta* cé ? Lá istan quetta sina. * tehta- mark up, mean TEK- ... Mana tehta camta ? ... cé , ata...
                Message 7 of 10 , Oct 5, 2002
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                  Aiya,
                  --- Petri Tikka <kari.j.tikka@...> wrote:
                  > N�ven nanquete Quenanen, an sina "m�lin liste" n�
                  > "liste"
                  > tecien Quenyanen.

                  **Mentat�ma? "Message-series"?



                  >
                  >
                  > Sinten sa mo c� ortuva _ada_ amba, inye sinte sa!
                  > Mal sa l� Quenya: "(in apparent contrast with
                  > another ROOT, _ada_ 'against, opposed to,
                  > opposite')"
                  > (VT43:33, antoryame ninya).

                  Mana tehta* "c�"? L� istan quetta sina.

                  * tehta- "mark up, mean" TEK-

                  >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > **I would rather suggest r� "on behalf of, for",
                  > it
                  > > suits the desired meaning better IMHO
                  >
                  > Inye camta. *_r�quet-_, *_r�quetindo_ ar *_r�quetta_
                  > san.


                  Mana tehta "camta"?

                  >
                  > > BTW, Petri, with all respect, you _were_ a bit
                  > > arrogant. In my very humble opinion.
                  >
                  > Tana qu�ta sie, ni l� sie alafaila
                  > sa c� lalanyes. ;-)


                  "c�", ata... quetta �moina...

                  Send' aure.

                  Thomas

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                • Petri Tikka
                  ... Sinten témo yando, mal la cenin, manen lertas satina sina tehtan. ... _ké_ particle denoting uncertainty (VT42:34, VT44:38): _lá caritas alasaila ké
                  Message 8 of 10 , Oct 5, 2002
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                    --- In quenya@y..., Thomas Ferencz <percival64@y...> wrote:
                    > Aiya,

                    > **Mentatéma? "Message-series"?

                    Sinten témo yando, mal la cenin, manen lertas satina
                    sina tehtan.

                    > Mana tehta* "cé"? Lá istan quetta sina.

                    _ké_ particle denoting uncertainty (VT42:34, VT44:38):
                    _lá caritas alasaila ké nauva_ "not doing it might prove
                    unwise"

                    > * tehta- "mark up, mean" TEK-

                    Ma mapal sina Matsarinello*? Sómerinesse* quetta ve
                    _tehta_: _merkitä_ "mark (off/out), mean". I quetta
                    tule quettallo _merkki_ "mark, sign".

                    * Q *_Matsarin_ "Hungarian" < H _Magyar_ "Hungarian"
                    * Q *_Sómerin_ "Finnish" < F _Suomi_, _Suome-_ "Finland, Finnish
                    (language)"

                    > Mana tehta "camta"?

                    _kamta-_ "to (make) fit, suit, accomodate, adapt" sundollo KAM "fit,
                    suit, agree" (VT44:14).

                    > "cé", ata... quetta úmoina...

                    La sí, merin, íre acálienyes. :-)

                    > Send' aure.
                    >
                    > Thomas

                    Mára lóme,

                    -Petri Tikka var Quén i Mere Lore
                  • Thomas Ferencz
                    Aiya, ... _jel_: a sign _jelez_: to make a sign, _jelöl_: to mark, mark up _jelent_: 1. mean 2. report ... Senda lóme, Onillo
                    Message 9 of 10 , Oct 6, 2002
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                      Aiya,
                      --- Petri Tikka <kari.j.tikka@...> wrote:

                      >
                      > > * tehta- "mark up, mean" TEK-
                      >
                      > Ma mapal sina Matsarinello*? S�merinesse* quetta ve
                      > _tehta_: _merkit�_ "mark (off/out), mean". I quetta
                      > tule quettallo _merkki_ "mark, sign".

                      _jel_: a sign
                      _jelez_: to make a sign,
                      _jel�l_: to mark, mark up
                      _jelent_: 1. mean 2. report

                      :-)

                      Senda l�me,

                      Onillo




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                    • Daniel Myers
                      aiya! Well, this seems to have left the scope of my knowledge... Thank you Petri and Thomas for your input. I think i ll go ahead and use *_ráquet-_ to
                      Message 10 of 10 , Oct 9, 2002
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                        aiya!

                        Well, this seems to have left the scope of my knowledge...

                        Thank you Petri and Thomas for your input.
                        I think i'll go ahead and use *_ráquet-_ "to prophesy",
                        *_ráquetindo_ "prophet", and *_ráquetta_ "prophesy".

                        Also, I'll use *_Yerusalen_ "Jerusalem", but what should I use for
                        Zedekiah and Judah?
                        Are there (even rough) guidelines for translating names?

                        To replace the ugly *_úcaravartante_ 'they repent', i'll use
                        _avartante úcarenta_ "they forsake their sins".

                        For the record, I just realized that I left an unattested word off my
                        list of "created/mishmashed" words in my original message:
                        _yessesse_, constructed by Helge for his Genesis 1 translation.

                        Are there suitable words for "must" and "destroyed"?

                        So, after a (short) debate about the past tense of _tul-_, does it
                        really matter which pa.t. i use? (_túle_ or _tulle_?) I'd opt for
                        _tulle_, but that's just because... well, i'm not sure why...

                        i've got the next twelve verses almost completely translated, so when
                        I finish this stupid assignment I'll post them...

                        mára mesta.

                        -Dan Myers
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