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Re: [quenya] Another question...

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  • Amelia Imperatrix
    Helge used to give out word-lists free to people who prove that they ve bought a copy of The Lost Road. I don t know if he still does, though. Mine is quite
    Message 1 of 13 , Jan 7, 2002
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      Helge used to give out word-lists free to people who prove that they've bought a copy of The Lost Road.  I don't know if he still does, though.  Mine is quite old.
      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 5:37 PM
      Subject: Re: [quenya] Another question...

       
      To tag onto that, is there a more comprehensive word list than the one theyve got there?

      Three Rings for the Elven-kings under the sky,
            Seven for the Dwarf-lords in their halls of stone,
      Nine for mortal men doomed to die,
            One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
      In the land of Mordor where the shadows lie.
            One Ring to rule them all.  One Ring to find them.
      One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them.
            In the land of Mordor where the shadows lie.
                              
      Matt
                  "If you want him, come and claim him!"




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    • Jennifer Burnett
      Well....currently I m using the downloadable course,and it is really a wonderful course.It s very helpful in articulation,spelling,and form of Quenya.I would
      Message 2 of 13 , Jan 8, 2002
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        Well....currently I'm using the downloadable
        course,and it is really a wonderful course.It's very
        helpful in articulation,spelling,and form of Quenya.I
        would strongly suggest that you use that particular
        course if you are seriously wanting to learn Quenya.
        Best of luck to you in your studies!-Jennifer
        AKA,Ringer#1 (I alda na vanima nar vanya!)

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      • Jennifer Burnett
        Um...thanks,but I m afraid I ve never heard of a book called the Lost Road.What is it? -Jennifer AKA,Ringer#1
        Message 3 of 13 , Jan 8, 2002
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          Um...thanks,but I'm afraid I've never heard of a book
          called the Lost Road.What is it? -Jennifer
          AKA,Ringer#1

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        • Jennifer Burnett
          Oh.Ok.thanx.I ll get it then.I really do want to learn quenya.I m just starting to form short sentances,so every little thing helps.Thanks again.
          Message 4 of 13 , Jan 8, 2002
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            Oh.Ok.thanx.I'll get it then.I really do want to learn
            quenya.I'm just starting to form short sentances,so
            every little thing helps.Thanks again. -Jennifer
            AKA,Ringer#1

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          • Amelia Imperatrix
            Besides The Silmarillion , there are lots of other books published of Tolkien s fragments and older versions of tales. The Lost Road has a good chunk of an
            Message 5 of 13 , Jan 8, 2002
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              Besides "The Silmarillion", there are lots of other books published of
              Tolkien's fragments and older versions of tales. "The Lost Road" has a good
              chunk of an older version of the Silmarillion and the invaluable
              Etymologies, one of our main sources (if not the main one, I haven't checked
              recently) of Quenya and Sindarin vocabulary. If you're at all serious about
              learning to use Quenya, you need the book.

              Melde

              > Um...thanks,but I'm afraid I've never heard of a book
              > called the Lost Road.What is it? -Jennifer
              > AKA,Ringer#1
            • Amelia Imperatrix
              No problem. I was a newbie once, and my Quenya is still abysmal. You have the course, so it s a lot easier nowadays. Nai haryuvalye estel! Melde ... From:
              Message 6 of 13 , Jan 8, 2002
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                No problem. I was a newbie once, and my Quenya is still abysmal. You have
                the course, so it's a lot easier nowadays.
                Nai haryuvalye estel!

                Melde
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "Jennifer Burnett" <eowyn_princess_sheildmaiden@...>
                To: <quenya@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 9:34 PM
                Subject: Re: [quenya] Another question...


                > Oh.Ok.thanx.I'll get it then.I really do want to learn
                > quenya.I'm just starting to form short sentances,so
                > every little thing helps.Thanks again. -Jennifer
                > AKA,Ringer#1
                >
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              • milly_frohn
                ... helpful. I ... So apparently, this course appears to be a good stepping stone. I have already downloaded it, but I didn t have time to start working on
                Message 7 of 13 , Jan 15, 2002
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                  --- In quenya@y..., "elfladyarwen" <fergyk88@h...> wrote:
                  > Hello again, i went to Ardalamtion and found it to be very
                  helpful. I
                  > was wondering about the course. Because i haven't really explored
                  > Quenya yet i was wondering if that'd be a good stepping stone?
                  > Thanks!

                  So apparently, this course appears to be a good stepping stone. I
                  have already downloaded it, but I didn't have time to start working
                  on it. I wanted to know what other people thoughed of it.
                  Also I thing it's a great thing that people both write english and
                  Quenya here!

                  -xxxx- Milou.
                • almie_elenwe
                  ... (...about the Ardalambion Quenya Course) ... Utuuvienyes maara ar i yessea centa Quenyo. Aiquen mere hanya Quenya, aa lelya ar cenda ta! Ecendien sii rasta
                  Message 8 of 13 , Jan 15, 2002
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                    --- In quenya@y..., "milly_frohn" <milly_frohn@y...> wrote:

                    (...about the Ardalambion Quenya Course)
                    > So apparently, this course appears to be a good stepping stone. I
                    > have already downloaded it, but I didn't have time to start working
                    > on it. I wanted to know what other people thoughed of it.


                    Utuuvienyes maara ar i yessea centa Quenyo. Aiquen mere hanya Quenya,
                    aa lelya ar cenda ta! Ecendien sii rasta parmar.


                    Translation (My Quenya is quite clumsy and it has possibly some
                    mistakes, but here is what I tried to say):

                    I have found it useful (=good) and the primary essay about (=of)
                    Quenya. If anybody wants to learn (=have knowlegde of) Quenya, go and
                    read it! I have read now twelwe books (=chapters of it).

                    I don't know the Quenya word for 'chapter' or 'part', so I used
                    'parma'=book instead.


                    Namaarie!

                    Almie Elenwe
                  • Helge K. Fauskanger
                    ... already downloaded it, but I didn t have time to start working on it. Please understand that this course, long though it is, is in no way official . It
                    Message 9 of 13 , Jan 16, 2002
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                      Milly_frohn wrote about my Quenya course:

                      > So apparently, this course appears to be a good stepping stone. I have
                      already downloaded it, but I didn't have time to start working on it.

                      Please understand that this course, long though it is, is in no way
                      "official". It represents my interpretation of Quenya grammar, nothing more
                      and nothing less. It is based on much less evidence than I would like, but
                      where I don't feel I am on solid ground, I say so -- loud and clear.

                      Carl F. Hostetter has been so "kind" as to briefly comment on this course.
                      Given the fact that he has access to all of Tolkien's manuscripts, his
                      impression of my course may be of some interest. He said it is the best
                      presentation of Quenya grammar that is currently available, but added that
                      I would want to revise it pretty drastically later. Of course, because of
                      his "special agreements" with the Tolkien Estate, Mr. Hostetter is not
                      going to tell me or anyone else _what_ should be revised, much less _how_
                      it should be revised. So here we are, and here we are likely to remain for
                      quite a few years.

                      - Helge Fauskanger
                    • endorendil
                      ... Both of these statements regarding your course are self-evident to all, and in no way rely on my access to or knowledge of Tolkien s unpublished papers.
                      Message 10 of 13 , Jan 17, 2002
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                        --- In quenya@y..., "Helge K. Fauskanger" <helge.fauskanger@n...>
                        wrote:

                        > Carl F. Hostetter has been so "kind" as to briefly comment on this
                        > course. Given the fact that he has access to all of Tolkien's
                        > manuscripts, his impression of my course may be of some interest.
                        > He said it is the best presentation of Quenya grammar that is
                        > currently available, but added that I would want to revise it
                        > pretty drastically later.

                        Both of these statements regarding your course are self-evident to
                        all, and in no way rely on my access to or knowledge of Tolkien's
                        unpublished papers. You act as if I or the existence of unpublished
                        papers are somehow responsible for the interpretation you make of the
                        available material and the methodologies you employ, whereas that is
                        solely your responsibility. Your main failing in your course is to
                        too often make far too much of very small evidences (e.g., your
                        extrapolations of present-tense forms of basic verbs), or of
                        evidences that are widely separated chronologically and conceptually
                        (e.g., your treatment of the several-decades-spanning evidence for
                        the pronominal system(s)), or to discard evidence that doesn't fit
                        nicely into the neat, tidy "standard Quenya" you hope to fabricate.
                        This is poor methodology, independent of whatever further information
                        remains unpublished; and these criticisms apply and will stand
                        regardless of what the as yet unpublished material contains.
                        Moreover, as Bill has already pointed out, many things will become
                        _less_ (seemingly) clear-cut about Quenya as more of Tolkien's
                        workings are published.

                        > Of course, because of his "special agreements" with the Tolkien
                        > Estate, Mr. Hostetter is not going to tell me or anyone else _what_
                        > should be revised, much less _how_ it should be revised.

                        You naively (and against much evidence to the contrary) assume that
                        there is just one possible correct answer to the many questions you
                        wrestle with in your course, and that I could simply declare this
                        answer. This in most cases is false, even were I inclined and
                        permitted to do so.

                        > So here we are, and here we are likely to remain for quite a few
                        > years.

                        And you will remain "here" even after all the unpublished material is
                        published, for reasons just explained.

                        Stop using the unpublished material as an excuse for poor methodology.
                      • Anthony J. Bryant
                        ... I don t want to get into the middle of a pissing contest, but I believe the proper response, then, is Feel free to do a better job. Tony
                        Message 11 of 13 , Jan 17, 2002
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                          endorendil wrote:

                          > --- In quenya@y..., "Helge K. Fauskanger" <helge.fauskanger@n...>
                          > wrote:
                          >
                          > > So here we are, and here we are likely to remain for quite a few
                          > > years.
                          >
                          > And you will remain "here" even after all the unpublished material is
                          > published, for reasons just explained.

                          I don't want to get into the middle of a pissing contest, but I believe the
                          proper response, then, is "Feel free to do a better job."

                          Tony
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