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Quenya word order

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  • gkrussell99
    Hello! I am just starting to learn Quenya, and have downloaded 2-3 different courses; they do not seem to address word order. A cursory search of fairly old
    Message 1 of 5 , Dec 7, 2005
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      Hello! I am just starting to learn Quenya, and have downloaded 2-3
      different courses; they do not seem to address word order. A cursory
      search of fairly old previous posts seemed to indicate that word order
      is standard SVO, is that the general consensus? Thank you!
      Gina
    • quildarener
      ... cursory ... order ... Until/unless we have more of Tolkien s continous Quenya texts to go by, that order does seem to be better than nothing, at least for
      Message 2 of 5 , Dec 10, 2005
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        --- In quenya@yahoogroups.com, "gkrussell99" <gkrussell99@y...>
        wrote:
        >
        > Hello! I am just starting to learn Quenya, and have downloaded 2-3
        > different courses; they do not seem to address word order. A
        cursory
        > search of fairly old previous posts seemed to indicate that word
        order
        > is standard SVO, is that the general consensus? Thank you!
        > Gina
        >
        Until/unless we have more of Tolkien's continous Quenya texts to go
        by, that order does seem to be better than nothing, at least for
        prose, though examples from Tolkien's texts suggest that the order
        is fairly free. The exception might be for the verb "to be" in the
        form "naa" = "is" (as in "X is Y"). For this see Chapter 4: The
        Copula of Helge Fauskanger's Quenya Course on Ardalambion, including
        the updated notes in fine print (and of course the Tolkien source
        texts quoted elsewhere on that website). Also, as you may already
        know, the preposition pella follows rather than precedes its object
        in all but one example. (HF's Quenya Course addresses this too.)
        Other comments on Quenya word order may occur throughout the course,
        though I can't think of any offhand.
      • Anthony Appleyard
        ... Word order in poetry does not count, as often in poetry the word order is shuffled about to make the words fit the meter and the rhyme pattern.
        Message 3 of 5 , Dec 31, 2005
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          --- "gkrussell99" <gkrussell99@y...> erote:
          > ...Also, as you may already
          > know, the preposition pella follows rather than precedes its object
          > in all but one example. (HF's Quenya Course addresses this too.)
          > Other comments on Quenya word order may occur throughout the course,
          > though I can't think of any offhand.

          Word order in poetry does not count, as often in poetry the word order
          is shuffled about to make the words fit the meter and the rhyme pattern.
        • Bruno Moreschi
          ... Word order in poetry does not count, as often in poetry the word order is shuffled about to make the words fit the meter and the rhyme pattern. Okay, what
          Message 4 of 5 , Jan 1, 2006
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            Anthony Appleyard <a.appleyard@...> escreveu:
            --- "gkrussell99" <gkrussell99@y...> erote:
            > ...Also, as you may already
            > know, the preposition pella follows rather than precedes its object
            > in all but one example. (HF's Quenya Course addresses this too.)
            > Other comments on Quenya word order may occur throughout the course,
            > though I can't think of any offhand.

            Word order in poetry does not count, as often in poetry the word order
            is shuffled about to make the words fit the meter and the rhyme pattern.



            Okay, what hell youl talking about? listen, i began to learn this langüange now and i don't have any idea what means many expressions. So take it ease. Thank's.


            Yahoo! doce lar. Faça do Yahoo! sua homepage.
          • quildarener
            ... object ... course, ... order ... pattern. ... As Helge points out (in Lesson 19 under The Postpositive in his Quenya course), one of the examples of
            Message 5 of 5 , Jan 13, 2006
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              --- In quenya@yahoogroups.com, "Anthony Appleyard"
              <a.appleyard@b...> wrote:
              >
              > --- "gkrussell99" <gkrussell99@y...> erote:
              > > ...Also, as you may already
              > > know, the preposition pella follows rather than precedes its
              object
              > > in all but one example. (HF's Quenya Course addresses this too.)
              > > Other comments on Quenya word order may occur throughout the
              course,
              > > though I can't think of any offhand.
              >
              > Word order in poetry does not count, as often in poetry the word
              order
              > is shuffled about to make the words fit the meter and the rhyme
              pattern.
              >

              As Helge points out (in Lesson 19 under "The Postpositive" in his
              Quenya course), one of the examples of pella following its object is
              in prose and the only example of its preceding its object was
              apparently rejected later by Tolkien. Further, whether the example
              is from poety or prose, it is safer to go by what is attested
              (without absolutely excluding possible alternatives), especially
              when (as here) we have three examples of the usage.
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