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Re: [quenya] Another question...

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  • shadowstalynn@aol.com
    To tag onto that, is there a more comprehensive word list than the one theyve got there? Three Rings for the Elven-kings under the sky, Seven for the
    Message 1 of 13 , Jan 7 2:37 PM
      To tag onto that, is there a more comprehensive word list than the one theyve got there?

      Three Rings for the Elven-kings under the sky,
            Seven for the Dwarf-lords in their halls of stone,
      Nine for mortal men doomed to die,
            One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
      In the land of Mordor where the shadows lie.
            One Ring to rule them all.  One Ring to find them.
      One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them.
            In the land of Mordor where the shadows lie.
                              
      Matt
                  "If you want him, come and claim him!"


    • Amelia Imperatrix
      Helge used to give out word-lists free to people who prove that they ve bought a copy of The Lost Road. I don t know if he still does, though. Mine is quite
      Message 2 of 13 , Jan 7 5:15 PM
        Helge used to give out word-lists free to people who prove that they've bought a copy of The Lost Road.  I don't know if he still does, though.  Mine is quite old.
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 5:37 PM
        Subject: Re: [quenya] Another question...

         
        To tag onto that, is there a more comprehensive word list than the one theyve got there?

        Three Rings for the Elven-kings under the sky,
              Seven for the Dwarf-lords in their halls of stone,
        Nine for mortal men doomed to die,
              One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
        In the land of Mordor where the shadows lie.
              One Ring to rule them all.  One Ring to find them.
        One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them.
              In the land of Mordor where the shadows lie.
                                
        Matt
                    "If you want him, come and claim him!"




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      • Jennifer Burnett
        Well....currently I m using the downloadable course,and it is really a wonderful course.It s very helpful in articulation,spelling,and form of Quenya.I would
        Message 3 of 13 , Jan 8 3:15 PM
          Well....currently I'm using the downloadable
          course,and it is really a wonderful course.It's very
          helpful in articulation,spelling,and form of Quenya.I
          would strongly suggest that you use that particular
          course if you are seriously wanting to learn Quenya.
          Best of luck to you in your studies!-Jennifer
          AKA,Ringer#1 (I alda na vanima nar vanya!)

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        • Jennifer Burnett
          Um...thanks,but I m afraid I ve never heard of a book called the Lost Road.What is it? -Jennifer AKA,Ringer#1
          Message 4 of 13 , Jan 8 3:17 PM
            Um...thanks,but I'm afraid I've never heard of a book
            called the Lost Road.What is it? -Jennifer
            AKA,Ringer#1

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          • Jennifer Burnett
            Oh.Ok.thanx.I ll get it then.I really do want to learn quenya.I m just starting to form short sentances,so every little thing helps.Thanks again.
            Message 5 of 13 , Jan 8 6:34 PM
              Oh.Ok.thanx.I'll get it then.I really do want to learn
              quenya.I'm just starting to form short sentances,so
              every little thing helps.Thanks again. -Jennifer
              AKA,Ringer#1

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            • Amelia Imperatrix
              Besides The Silmarillion , there are lots of other books published of Tolkien s fragments and older versions of tales. The Lost Road has a good chunk of an
              Message 6 of 13 , Jan 8 6:47 PM
                Besides "The Silmarillion", there are lots of other books published of
                Tolkien's fragments and older versions of tales. "The Lost Road" has a good
                chunk of an older version of the Silmarillion and the invaluable
                Etymologies, one of our main sources (if not the main one, I haven't checked
                recently) of Quenya and Sindarin vocabulary. If you're at all serious about
                learning to use Quenya, you need the book.

                Melde

                > Um...thanks,but I'm afraid I've never heard of a book
                > called the Lost Road.What is it? -Jennifer
                > AKA,Ringer#1
              • Amelia Imperatrix
                No problem. I was a newbie once, and my Quenya is still abysmal. You have the course, so it s a lot easier nowadays. Nai haryuvalye estel! Melde ... From:
                Message 7 of 13 , Jan 8 7:30 PM
                  No problem. I was a newbie once, and my Quenya is still abysmal. You have
                  the course, so it's a lot easier nowadays.
                  Nai haryuvalye estel!

                  Melde
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "Jennifer Burnett" <eowyn_princess_sheildmaiden@...>
                  To: <quenya@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 9:34 PM
                  Subject: Re: [quenya] Another question...


                  > Oh.Ok.thanx.I'll get it then.I really do want to learn
                  > quenya.I'm just starting to form short sentances,so
                  > every little thing helps.Thanks again. -Jennifer
                  > AKA,Ringer#1
                  >
                  > __________________________________________________
                  > Do You Yahoo!?
                  > Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail!
                  > http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • milly_frohn
                  ... helpful. I ... So apparently, this course appears to be a good stepping stone. I have already downloaded it, but I didn t have time to start working on
                  Message 8 of 13 , Jan 15 5:39 AM
                    --- In quenya@y..., "elfladyarwen" <fergyk88@h...> wrote:
                    > Hello again, i went to Ardalamtion and found it to be very
                    helpful. I
                    > was wondering about the course. Because i haven't really explored
                    > Quenya yet i was wondering if that'd be a good stepping stone?
                    > Thanks!

                    So apparently, this course appears to be a good stepping stone. I
                    have already downloaded it, but I didn't have time to start working
                    on it. I wanted to know what other people thoughed of it.
                    Also I thing it's a great thing that people both write english and
                    Quenya here!

                    -xxxx- Milou.
                  • almie_elenwe
                    ... (...about the Ardalambion Quenya Course) ... Utuuvienyes maara ar i yessea centa Quenyo. Aiquen mere hanya Quenya, aa lelya ar cenda ta! Ecendien sii rasta
                    Message 9 of 13 , Jan 15 8:36 AM
                      --- In quenya@y..., "milly_frohn" <milly_frohn@y...> wrote:

                      (...about the Ardalambion Quenya Course)
                      > So apparently, this course appears to be a good stepping stone. I
                      > have already downloaded it, but I didn't have time to start working
                      > on it. I wanted to know what other people thoughed of it.


                      Utuuvienyes maara ar i yessea centa Quenyo. Aiquen mere hanya Quenya,
                      aa lelya ar cenda ta! Ecendien sii rasta parmar.


                      Translation (My Quenya is quite clumsy and it has possibly some
                      mistakes, but here is what I tried to say):

                      I have found it useful (=good) and the primary essay about (=of)
                      Quenya. If anybody wants to learn (=have knowlegde of) Quenya, go and
                      read it! I have read now twelwe books (=chapters of it).

                      I don't know the Quenya word for 'chapter' or 'part', so I used
                      'parma'=book instead.


                      Namaarie!

                      Almie Elenwe
                    • Helge K. Fauskanger
                      ... already downloaded it, but I didn t have time to start working on it. Please understand that this course, long though it is, is in no way official . It
                      Message 10 of 13 , Jan 16 11:32 AM
                        Milly_frohn wrote about my Quenya course:

                        > So apparently, this course appears to be a good stepping stone. I have
                        already downloaded it, but I didn't have time to start working on it.

                        Please understand that this course, long though it is, is in no way
                        "official". It represents my interpretation of Quenya grammar, nothing more
                        and nothing less. It is based on much less evidence than I would like, but
                        where I don't feel I am on solid ground, I say so -- loud and clear.

                        Carl F. Hostetter has been so "kind" as to briefly comment on this course.
                        Given the fact that he has access to all of Tolkien's manuscripts, his
                        impression of my course may be of some interest. He said it is the best
                        presentation of Quenya grammar that is currently available, but added that
                        I would want to revise it pretty drastically later. Of course, because of
                        his "special agreements" with the Tolkien Estate, Mr. Hostetter is not
                        going to tell me or anyone else _what_ should be revised, much less _how_
                        it should be revised. So here we are, and here we are likely to remain for
                        quite a few years.

                        - Helge Fauskanger
                      • endorendil
                        ... Both of these statements regarding your course are self-evident to all, and in no way rely on my access to or knowledge of Tolkien s unpublished papers.
                        Message 11 of 13 , Jan 17 1:41 PM
                          --- In quenya@y..., "Helge K. Fauskanger" <helge.fauskanger@n...>
                          wrote:

                          > Carl F. Hostetter has been so "kind" as to briefly comment on this
                          > course. Given the fact that he has access to all of Tolkien's
                          > manuscripts, his impression of my course may be of some interest.
                          > He said it is the best presentation of Quenya grammar that is
                          > currently available, but added that I would want to revise it
                          > pretty drastically later.

                          Both of these statements regarding your course are self-evident to
                          all, and in no way rely on my access to or knowledge of Tolkien's
                          unpublished papers. You act as if I or the existence of unpublished
                          papers are somehow responsible for the interpretation you make of the
                          available material and the methodologies you employ, whereas that is
                          solely your responsibility. Your main failing in your course is to
                          too often make far too much of very small evidences (e.g., your
                          extrapolations of present-tense forms of basic verbs), or of
                          evidences that are widely separated chronologically and conceptually
                          (e.g., your treatment of the several-decades-spanning evidence for
                          the pronominal system(s)), or to discard evidence that doesn't fit
                          nicely into the neat, tidy "standard Quenya" you hope to fabricate.
                          This is poor methodology, independent of whatever further information
                          remains unpublished; and these criticisms apply and will stand
                          regardless of what the as yet unpublished material contains.
                          Moreover, as Bill has already pointed out, many things will become
                          _less_ (seemingly) clear-cut about Quenya as more of Tolkien's
                          workings are published.

                          > Of course, because of his "special agreements" with the Tolkien
                          > Estate, Mr. Hostetter is not going to tell me or anyone else _what_
                          > should be revised, much less _how_ it should be revised.

                          You naively (and against much evidence to the contrary) assume that
                          there is just one possible correct answer to the many questions you
                          wrestle with in your course, and that I could simply declare this
                          answer. This in most cases is false, even were I inclined and
                          permitted to do so.

                          > So here we are, and here we are likely to remain for quite a few
                          > years.

                          And you will remain "here" even after all the unpublished material is
                          published, for reasons just explained.

                          Stop using the unpublished material as an excuse for poor methodology.
                        • Anthony J. Bryant
                          ... I don t want to get into the middle of a pissing contest, but I believe the proper response, then, is Feel free to do a better job. Tony
                          Message 12 of 13 , Jan 17 1:57 PM
                            endorendil wrote:

                            > --- In quenya@y..., "Helge K. Fauskanger" <helge.fauskanger@n...>
                            > wrote:
                            >
                            > > So here we are, and here we are likely to remain for quite a few
                            > > years.
                            >
                            > And you will remain "here" even after all the unpublished material is
                            > published, for reasons just explained.

                            I don't want to get into the middle of a pissing contest, but I believe the
                            proper response, then, is "Feel free to do a better job."

                            Tony
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