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  • elfladyarwen
    Hello again, i went to Ardalamtion and found it to be very helpful. I was wondering about the course. Because i haven t really explored Quenya yet i was
    Message 1 of 13 , Jan 7, 2002
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      Hello again, i went to Ardalamtion and found it to be very helpful. I
      was wondering about the course. Because i haven't really explored
      Quenya yet i was wondering if that'd be a good stepping stone?
      Thanks!
    • shadowstalynn@aol.com
      To tag onto that, is there a more comprehensive word list than the one theyve got there? Three Rings for the Elven-kings under the sky, Seven for the
      Message 2 of 13 , Jan 7, 2002
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        To tag onto that, is there a more comprehensive word list than the one theyve got there?

        Three Rings for the Elven-kings under the sky,
              Seven for the Dwarf-lords in their halls of stone,
        Nine for mortal men doomed to die,
              One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
        In the land of Mordor where the shadows lie.
              One Ring to rule them all.  One Ring to find them.
        One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them.
              In the land of Mordor where the shadows lie.
                                
        Matt
                    "If you want him, come and claim him!"


      • Amelia Imperatrix
        Helge used to give out word-lists free to people who prove that they ve bought a copy of The Lost Road. I don t know if he still does, though. Mine is quite
        Message 3 of 13 , Jan 7, 2002
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          Helge used to give out word-lists free to people who prove that they've bought a copy of The Lost Road.  I don't know if he still does, though.  Mine is quite old.
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 5:37 PM
          Subject: Re: [quenya] Another question...

           
          To tag onto that, is there a more comprehensive word list than the one theyve got there?

          Three Rings for the Elven-kings under the sky,
                Seven for the Dwarf-lords in their halls of stone,
          Nine for mortal men doomed to die,
                One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
          In the land of Mordor where the shadows lie.
                One Ring to rule them all.  One Ring to find them.
          One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them.
                In the land of Mordor where the shadows lie.
                                  
          Matt
                      "If you want him, come and claim him!"




          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
        • Jennifer Burnett
          Well....currently I m using the downloadable course,and it is really a wonderful course.It s very helpful in articulation,spelling,and form of Quenya.I would
          Message 4 of 13 , Jan 8, 2002
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            Well....currently I'm using the downloadable
            course,and it is really a wonderful course.It's very
            helpful in articulation,spelling,and form of Quenya.I
            would strongly suggest that you use that particular
            course if you are seriously wanting to learn Quenya.
            Best of luck to you in your studies!-Jennifer
            AKA,Ringer#1 (I alda na vanima nar vanya!)

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          • Jennifer Burnett
            Um...thanks,but I m afraid I ve never heard of a book called the Lost Road.What is it? -Jennifer AKA,Ringer#1
            Message 5 of 13 , Jan 8, 2002
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              Um...thanks,but I'm afraid I've never heard of a book
              called the Lost Road.What is it? -Jennifer
              AKA,Ringer#1

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            • Jennifer Burnett
              Oh.Ok.thanx.I ll get it then.I really do want to learn quenya.I m just starting to form short sentances,so every little thing helps.Thanks again.
              Message 6 of 13 , Jan 8, 2002
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                Oh.Ok.thanx.I'll get it then.I really do want to learn
                quenya.I'm just starting to form short sentances,so
                every little thing helps.Thanks again. -Jennifer
                AKA,Ringer#1

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              • Amelia Imperatrix
                Besides The Silmarillion , there are lots of other books published of Tolkien s fragments and older versions of tales. The Lost Road has a good chunk of an
                Message 7 of 13 , Jan 8, 2002
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                  Besides "The Silmarillion", there are lots of other books published of
                  Tolkien's fragments and older versions of tales. "The Lost Road" has a good
                  chunk of an older version of the Silmarillion and the invaluable
                  Etymologies, one of our main sources (if not the main one, I haven't checked
                  recently) of Quenya and Sindarin vocabulary. If you're at all serious about
                  learning to use Quenya, you need the book.

                  Melde

                  > Um...thanks,but I'm afraid I've never heard of a book
                  > called the Lost Road.What is it? -Jennifer
                  > AKA,Ringer#1
                • Amelia Imperatrix
                  No problem. I was a newbie once, and my Quenya is still abysmal. You have the course, so it s a lot easier nowadays. Nai haryuvalye estel! Melde ... From:
                  Message 8 of 13 , Jan 8, 2002
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                    No problem. I was a newbie once, and my Quenya is still abysmal. You have
                    the course, so it's a lot easier nowadays.
                    Nai haryuvalye estel!

                    Melde
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: "Jennifer Burnett" <eowyn_princess_sheildmaiden@...>
                    To: <quenya@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 9:34 PM
                    Subject: Re: [quenya] Another question...


                    > Oh.Ok.thanx.I'll get it then.I really do want to learn
                    > quenya.I'm just starting to form short sentances,so
                    > every little thing helps.Thanks again. -Jennifer
                    > AKA,Ringer#1
                    >
                    > __________________________________________________
                    > Do You Yahoo!?
                    > Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail!
                    > http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • milly_frohn
                    ... helpful. I ... So apparently, this course appears to be a good stepping stone. I have already downloaded it, but I didn t have time to start working on
                    Message 9 of 13 , Jan 15, 2002
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                      --- In quenya@y..., "elfladyarwen" <fergyk88@h...> wrote:
                      > Hello again, i went to Ardalamtion and found it to be very
                      helpful. I
                      > was wondering about the course. Because i haven't really explored
                      > Quenya yet i was wondering if that'd be a good stepping stone?
                      > Thanks!

                      So apparently, this course appears to be a good stepping stone. I
                      have already downloaded it, but I didn't have time to start working
                      on it. I wanted to know what other people thoughed of it.
                      Also I thing it's a great thing that people both write english and
                      Quenya here!

                      -xxxx- Milou.
                    • almie_elenwe
                      ... (...about the Ardalambion Quenya Course) ... Utuuvienyes maara ar i yessea centa Quenyo. Aiquen mere hanya Quenya, aa lelya ar cenda ta! Ecendien sii rasta
                      Message 10 of 13 , Jan 15, 2002
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                        --- In quenya@y..., "milly_frohn" <milly_frohn@y...> wrote:

                        (...about the Ardalambion Quenya Course)
                        > So apparently, this course appears to be a good stepping stone. I
                        > have already downloaded it, but I didn't have time to start working
                        > on it. I wanted to know what other people thoughed of it.


                        Utuuvienyes maara ar i yessea centa Quenyo. Aiquen mere hanya Quenya,
                        aa lelya ar cenda ta! Ecendien sii rasta parmar.


                        Translation (My Quenya is quite clumsy and it has possibly some
                        mistakes, but here is what I tried to say):

                        I have found it useful (=good) and the primary essay about (=of)
                        Quenya. If anybody wants to learn (=have knowlegde of) Quenya, go and
                        read it! I have read now twelwe books (=chapters of it).

                        I don't know the Quenya word for 'chapter' or 'part', so I used
                        'parma'=book instead.


                        Namaarie!

                        Almie Elenwe
                      • Helge K. Fauskanger
                        ... already downloaded it, but I didn t have time to start working on it. Please understand that this course, long though it is, is in no way official . It
                        Message 11 of 13 , Jan 16, 2002
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                          Milly_frohn wrote about my Quenya course:

                          > So apparently, this course appears to be a good stepping stone. I have
                          already downloaded it, but I didn't have time to start working on it.

                          Please understand that this course, long though it is, is in no way
                          "official". It represents my interpretation of Quenya grammar, nothing more
                          and nothing less. It is based on much less evidence than I would like, but
                          where I don't feel I am on solid ground, I say so -- loud and clear.

                          Carl F. Hostetter has been so "kind" as to briefly comment on this course.
                          Given the fact that he has access to all of Tolkien's manuscripts, his
                          impression of my course may be of some interest. He said it is the best
                          presentation of Quenya grammar that is currently available, but added that
                          I would want to revise it pretty drastically later. Of course, because of
                          his "special agreements" with the Tolkien Estate, Mr. Hostetter is not
                          going to tell me or anyone else _what_ should be revised, much less _how_
                          it should be revised. So here we are, and here we are likely to remain for
                          quite a few years.

                          - Helge Fauskanger
                        • endorendil
                          ... Both of these statements regarding your course are self-evident to all, and in no way rely on my access to or knowledge of Tolkien s unpublished papers.
                          Message 12 of 13 , Jan 17, 2002
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                            --- In quenya@y..., "Helge K. Fauskanger" <helge.fauskanger@n...>
                            wrote:

                            > Carl F. Hostetter has been so "kind" as to briefly comment on this
                            > course. Given the fact that he has access to all of Tolkien's
                            > manuscripts, his impression of my course may be of some interest.
                            > He said it is the best presentation of Quenya grammar that is
                            > currently available, but added that I would want to revise it
                            > pretty drastically later.

                            Both of these statements regarding your course are self-evident to
                            all, and in no way rely on my access to or knowledge of Tolkien's
                            unpublished papers. You act as if I or the existence of unpublished
                            papers are somehow responsible for the interpretation you make of the
                            available material and the methodologies you employ, whereas that is
                            solely your responsibility. Your main failing in your course is to
                            too often make far too much of very small evidences (e.g., your
                            extrapolations of present-tense forms of basic verbs), or of
                            evidences that are widely separated chronologically and conceptually
                            (e.g., your treatment of the several-decades-spanning evidence for
                            the pronominal system(s)), or to discard evidence that doesn't fit
                            nicely into the neat, tidy "standard Quenya" you hope to fabricate.
                            This is poor methodology, independent of whatever further information
                            remains unpublished; and these criticisms apply and will stand
                            regardless of what the as yet unpublished material contains.
                            Moreover, as Bill has already pointed out, many things will become
                            _less_ (seemingly) clear-cut about Quenya as more of Tolkien's
                            workings are published.

                            > Of course, because of his "special agreements" with the Tolkien
                            > Estate, Mr. Hostetter is not going to tell me or anyone else _what_
                            > should be revised, much less _how_ it should be revised.

                            You naively (and against much evidence to the contrary) assume that
                            there is just one possible correct answer to the many questions you
                            wrestle with in your course, and that I could simply declare this
                            answer. This in most cases is false, even were I inclined and
                            permitted to do so.

                            > So here we are, and here we are likely to remain for quite a few
                            > years.

                            And you will remain "here" even after all the unpublished material is
                            published, for reasons just explained.

                            Stop using the unpublished material as an excuse for poor methodology.
                          • Anthony J. Bryant
                            ... I don t want to get into the middle of a pissing contest, but I believe the proper response, then, is Feel free to do a better job. Tony
                            Message 13 of 13 , Jan 17, 2002
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                              endorendil wrote:

                              > --- In quenya@y..., "Helge K. Fauskanger" <helge.fauskanger@n...>
                              > wrote:
                              >
                              > > So here we are, and here we are likely to remain for quite a few
                              > > years.
                              >
                              > And you will remain "here" even after all the unpublished material is
                              > published, for reasons just explained.

                              I don't want to get into the middle of a pissing contest, but I believe the
                              proper response, then, is "Feel free to do a better job."

                              Tony
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