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Adjective order with the word "I" (the)

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  • elvenmagic21
    (Forgive my use of English please...) Is it alright to say Ibein Mindon ? (The Beautiful Tower) Or must the word I (the) be connected to the noun, like
    Message 1 of 4 , Jul 17 1:13 PM
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      (Forgive my use of English please...)

      Is it alright to say "Ibein Mindon"? (The Beautiful Tower)

      Or must the word "I" (the) be connected to the noun, like
      this, "Imindon Bein"?

      I would prefer not to say "Imindonbein" as this becomes too long in
      some cases, and I also would prefer that the word "I" *not* stand
      alone, as in "I Bein Mindon".

      Any guidance would be greatly appreciated.

      Thank you!!
      Elvenmagic
    • Atwe
      ... Most assuredly not, as _bein_ is not a Quenya word. That having said, I think there is only one attested example of Tolkien attaching i to the following
      Message 2 of 4 , Jul 18 1:25 AM
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        --- elvenmagic21 <elvenmagic21@...> wrote:

        > (Forgive my use of English please...)
        >
        > Is it alright to say "Ibein Mindon"? (The Beautiful
        > Tower)
        >
        > Or must the word "I" (the) be connected to the noun,
        > like
        > this, "Imindon Bein"?
        >
        > I would prefer not to say "Imindonbein" as this
        > becomes too long in
        > some cases, and I also would prefer that the word
        > "I" *not* stand
        > alone, as in "I Bein Mindon".
        >
        > Any guidance would be greatly appreciated.
        >
        > Thank you!!
        > Elvenmagic
        >
        >
        >
        >

        Most assuredly not, as _bein_ is not a Quenya word.
        That having said, I think there is only one attested
        example of Tolkien attaching i to the following noun
        in SD_247; all other attested forms are either
        separate or attached with a hyphen. So to answer your
        question: do not attach it either to the noun or the
        adjective.

        Cheers,

        Thomas Ferencz

        -- love is the shadow that ripens the wine --



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      • Nathan Roy
        According to the Quettaparma Quenyallo wordlist on Ardalambion, The Beautiful Tower would most likely be translated as I Vanya Mindon in LOTR style Quenya.
        Message 3 of 4 , Jul 18 10:27 AM
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          According to the Quettaparma Quenyallo wordlist on Ardalambion, "The
          Beautiful Tower" would most likely be translated as "I Vanya Mindon" in LOTR
          style Quenya. There are indeed examples of the definite article being
          attached to nouns with a hyphen, but these are from the Narqelion text,
          which was composed at a quite early stage in Tolkien's language development.
          According to the published corpus, he eventually decided to make this a
          separate word. (Sorry!)

          Perhaps you are thinking of Sindarin, though? I'm unfamiliar with the Noble
          Elvish tongue, but "bein" seems to match its phonology, perhaps even as the
          cognate of "vanya". Also, a quick look at the Sindarin course at Gwaith
          i-Phethdain shows that the definate article is more regularly attached to
          its noun, even without use of the hyphen, so this may be what your looking
          for. Check it out... (http://www.elvish.org/gwaith/), or consider the Quenya
          course on Ardalambion. Well, I hope some of this helps! Sincerely,

          Nathan Roy





          >From: "elvenmagic21" <elvenmagic21@...>
          >Reply-To: quenya@yahoogroups.com
          >To: quenya@yahoogroups.com
          >Subject: [quenya] Adjective order with the word "I" (the)
          >Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2005 20:13:38 -0000
          >
          >(Forgive my use of English please...)
          >
          >Is it alright to say "Ibein Mindon"? (The Beautiful Tower)
          >
          >Or must the word "I" (the) be connected to the noun, like
          >this, "Imindon Bein"?
          >
          >I would prefer not to say "Imindonbein" as this becomes too long in
          >some cases, and I also would prefer that the word "I" *not* stand
          >alone, as in "I Bein Mindon".
          >
          >Any guidance would be greatly appreciated.
          >
          >Thank you!!
          >Elvenmagic
          >
          >
          >
        • elvenmagic21
          ... I stand corrected. _Bein_ is a Sindarin word. And thank you for the insight regarding the attachment of the word the . Elvenmagic
          Message 4 of 4 , Jul 24 9:07 AM
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            > --- elvenmagic21 <elvenmagic21@y...> wrote:
            > > Is it alright to say "Ibein Mindon"? (The Beautiful
            > > Tower)
            >
            --- In quenya@yahoogroups.com, Atwe <percival64@y...> wrote:
            > Most assuredly not, as _bein_ is not a Quenya word.
            > That having said, I think there is only one attested
            > example of Tolkien attaching i to the following noun
            > in SD_247; all other attested forms are either
            > separate or attached with a hyphen. So to answer your
            > question: do not attach it either to the noun or the
            > adjective.
            >
            > Cheers,
            >
            > Thomas Ferencz
            >
            > -- love is the shadow that ripens the wine --
            >
            >

            I stand corrected. _Bein_ is a Sindarin word. And thank you for the
            insight regarding the attachment of the word "the".

            Elvenmagic
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