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Re: [quenya] Telpenor

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  • Serena Del Bianco
    ... You re right, thanks :) ... I ve used Telem- because I didn t want to repeat the word telpe- . I.e Telpenor, Telpetári. But I agree, the cluster _mt_
    Message 1 of 6 , Dec 30, 2001
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      On Sun, 30 Dec 2001, Helge K. Fauskanger wrote:

      > ** Seems quite OK, except for two points:
      >
      > 1. The verb _siluvar_ is plural, but its subject _cálë Eruo_ is singular,
      > so the verb must also be singular: _siluva_.

      You're right, thanks :)

      > 2. I don't think Quenya can have the cluster _mt_ as in _Telemtári_. This
      > _telem-_ I guess you took from the adjektive _telemna_, but this _mn_
      > represents older _pn_ (*kyelepnaa). My suggestion: Just start from the
      > normal Quenya word for "silver", _telpe_, and say _Telpetári_ (cf.
      > _Telpenor_ = Silver-land = Argentina).
      >
      > - HF
      >

      I've used Telem- because I didn't want to repeat the word "telpe-". I.e
      Telpenor, Telpetári. But I agree, the cluster _mt_ does not seem to appear
      anywhere in Tolkien's poems (the ones I've read at least :)

      Btw, Your site is a must visit. Excellent content, thanks for putting it up!

      Auta i Mettarë!
      Namárië enwina loa,
      nai estel quantuv' órelya,
      Vinyarië entuluva!

      Happy New Year!

      --
      Serena

      http://serena.mine.nu

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    • Ardalambion.fr
      ... This seems OK, but the translation of the third line should rather be upon the heavy moments , with the use of the allative _lúmennar_. _In_ the heavy
      Message 2 of 6 , Dec 31, 2001
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        Poem after Helge's comments :

        > Ai! Telpenor vanya nórë,
        > nai cálë Eruo siluva
        > i lumnë lúmennar,
        > Telpetári, Hyarmenya mírë.
        >
        > Ay! Silver land, fair Nation,
        > may Eru's light shine
        > (in) the heavy moments,
        > Silver Queen, Southern jewel.

        This seems OK, but the translation of the third line should rather be "upon
        the heavy moments", with the use of the allative _lúmennar_.
        "_In_ the heavy moments" should be _i lumnë lúmesse_, no ?

        Nai vinya loa sina quantuva hónelya alassenen !

        Sébastien Bertho, estaina Aryáro Varya Endóresse.
      • Diego Segui
        Aiya Serena! Ar [1] inye Telpenoorello! Etencien pitya nat noorelvo [2], nai meluvalyes :) A Telpenoore melima, sercelya naa i hiinion [3] nosselion, i oiale
        Message 3 of 6 , Dec 31, 2001
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          Aiya Serena! Ar [1] inye Telpenoorello!
           
          Etencien pitya nat noorelvo [2], nai meluvalyes :)
           
          A Telpenoore melima,
          sercelya naa i hiinion [3]
          nosselion, i oiale [4]
          olosta seere meruvar.
           
          (O lovely Argentina,
          your blood is (the blood) of the children
          of many peoples, who for ever
          a dream peace will desire.)
           
          Diego Seguí
           
          NOTES
           
          [0] I tried to make it sound iambic. Did I succeed?
           
          [1] A bold transferrence from the Latin construction 'et ego', since I couldn't find anything for 'also, too'.
           
          [2] Am I right to think that the quenya genitive expresses subject matter? It seems so from Quenta Silmarillion = 'History of [i.e., about] the Silmarils'
           
          [3] A second serce is elided here, do you think it is right?
           
          [4] Nosseli: Spain is also known as Nosselinor, 'land of many peoples', and we Argentinians usually refer to it as 'La Madre Patria'; but here I try to be even broader, for genuine Spanish blood is in fact almost a minority. [BTW, Argentina is usually referred to as 'Kyelepea',  but that is a long story].
           
          [5] And how do you say 'Corrections & Comments please'? :)
        • Serena Del Bianco
          Aiya Diego :) ... Looks pretty good to me. Although olosta seems to mean sleepy or dreamy I d translate it as a dream of (a) peace = seréva olórë Or
          Message 4 of 6 , Jan 4, 2002
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            Aiya Diego :)

            > Aiya Serena! Ar [1] inye Telpenoorello!
            >
            > Etencien pitya nat noorelvo [2], nai meluvalyes :)
            >
            > A Telpenoore melima,
            > sercelya naa i hiinion [3]
            > nosselion, i oiale [4]
            > olosta seere meruvar.
            >

            Looks pretty good to me.
            Although olosta seems to mean "sleepy or dreamy"

            I'd translate it as a 'dream of (a) peace' = seréva olórë
            Or maybe 'peaceful dream' = serëa olórë

            'Dreamy peace' does not seem to fit into the context.

            > (O lovely Argentina,
            > your blood is (the blood) of the children
            > of many peoples, who for ever
            > a dream peace will desire.)
            >
            > Diego Seguí
            >
            > NOTES
            >
            > [0] I tried to make it sound iambic. Did I succeed?

            That is a question to be answered by someone with knowledge in Quenya
            phonology I'm afraid :) I don't know where is the accented syllable in
            each word.

            >
            > [1] A bold transferrence from the Latin construction 'et ego', since I
            > couldn't find anything for 'also, too'.

            Hmm. I believe the closest expression is 've <pron>'

            I.e Arwen ná vanya vendë, ve Éowyn 'Arwen is (a) beautiful maiden, like
            Éowyn' ==> Éowyn, ve se, ná vanya vendë. 'Éowyn, like her, is a beautiful
            maiden.'

            >
            > [2] Am I right to think that the quenya genitive expresses subject matter?
            > It seems so from Quenta Silmarillion = 'History of [i.e., about] the
            > Silmarils'

            I don't understend that question. Silmarillion would be in spanish a
            "modificador indirecto". By definition any 'modifier' of the subject
            expresses nucleus matters...

            > [3] A second serce is elided here, do you think it is right?

            I understood it without the second 'serce' :)

            >
            > [4] Nosseli: Spain is also known as Nosselinor, 'land of many peoples', and
            > we Argentinians usually refer to it as 'La Madre Patria'; but here I try
            > to be even broader, for genuine Spanish blood is in fact almost a minority.
            > [BTW, Argentina is usually referred to as 'Kyelepea', but that is a long
            > story].
            >

            Indeed, I don't have Spanish blood at all but that's another topic :)

            As for Kyelepea, I believe Argentina = Argent (from Argentum) + latin
            suffix -ina, therefore shouldn't be

            Kyelep- + a feminine ending found at

            http://www.uib.no/People/hnohf/affix~1.htm#C ?


            Cheers,

            --
            Serena

            http://serena.mine.nu

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