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Telpenor

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  • Serena Del Bianco
    Hi, I ve been writing a few verses in Quenya. I m from Argentina, thus I may not be able to provide an accurate translation in english but I ll do my best :)
    Message 1 of 6 , Dec 29, 2001
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      Hi, I've been writing a few verses in Quenya. I'm from Argentina, thus
      I may not be able to provide an accurate translation in english but I'll
      do my best :)

      For people with iso-8859-1 character set

      Ai! Telpenor vanya nórë,
      nai cálë Eruo siluvar
      i lumnë lúmennar,
      Telemtári, Hyarmenya mírë.

      ----------------------------

      Ay! Silver land, fair Nation,
      may Eru's light shine
      (in) the heavy moments,
      Silver Queen, Southern jewel.

      -----------------------------

      No accents version

      Ai! Telpenor vanya nooree,
      nai caalee Eruo silvular
      i lumnee luumennar,
      Telemtaari, Hyarmenya miiree.


      I don't know what is the plural for luumenna (if it's applicable), thus I
      assumed it was "luumenar" Is this wrong?
      Same thing with 'lumna'. I assumed the plural was lumnee.

      Telpenor and Telemtaari are words invented by me as you can see. I hope
      they're within the limits of 'logic' :)

      Suggestions and corrections welcome!

      --
      Serena

      http://serena.mine.nu

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    • Helge K. Fauskanger
      ... nai cálë Eruo siluvar i lumnë lúmennar, Telemtári, Hyarmenya mírë. Ay! Silver land, fair Nation, may Eru s light shine (in) the heavy moments,
      Message 2 of 6 , Dec 30, 2001
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        > Ai! Telpenor vanya nórë,
        nai cálë Eruo siluvar
        i lumnë lúmennar,
        Telemtári, Hyarmenya mírë.

        Ay! Silver land, fair Nation,
        may Eru's light shine
        (in) the heavy moments,
        Silver Queen, Southern jewel.

        ** Seems quite OK, except for two points:

        1. The verb _siluvar_ is plural, but its subject _cálë Eruo_ is singular,
        so the verb must also be singular: _siluva_.
        2. I don't think Quenya can have the cluster _mt_ as in _Telemtári_. This
        _telem-_ I guess you took from the adjektive _telemna_, but this _mn_
        represents older _pn_ (*kyelepnaa). My suggestion: Just start from the
        normal Quenya word for "silver", _telpe_, and say _Telpetári_ (cf.
        _Telpenor_ = Silver-land = Argentina).

        - HF
      • Serena Del Bianco
        ... You re right, thanks :) ... I ve used Telem- because I didn t want to repeat the word telpe- . I.e Telpenor, Telpetári. But I agree, the cluster _mt_
        Message 3 of 6 , Dec 30, 2001
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          On Sun, 30 Dec 2001, Helge K. Fauskanger wrote:

          > ** Seems quite OK, except for two points:
          >
          > 1. The verb _siluvar_ is plural, but its subject _cálë Eruo_ is singular,
          > so the verb must also be singular: _siluva_.

          You're right, thanks :)

          > 2. I don't think Quenya can have the cluster _mt_ as in _Telemtári_. This
          > _telem-_ I guess you took from the adjektive _telemna_, but this _mn_
          > represents older _pn_ (*kyelepnaa). My suggestion: Just start from the
          > normal Quenya word for "silver", _telpe_, and say _Telpetári_ (cf.
          > _Telpenor_ = Silver-land = Argentina).
          >
          > - HF
          >

          I've used Telem- because I didn't want to repeat the word "telpe-". I.e
          Telpenor, Telpetári. But I agree, the cluster _mt_ does not seem to appear
          anywhere in Tolkien's poems (the ones I've read at least :)

          Btw, Your site is a must visit. Excellent content, thanks for putting it up!

          Auta i Mettarë!
          Namárië enwina loa,
          nai estel quantuv' órelya,
          Vinyarië entuluva!

          Happy New Year!

          --
          Serena

          http://serena.mine.nu

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        • Ardalambion.fr
          ... This seems OK, but the translation of the third line should rather be upon the heavy moments , with the use of the allative _lúmennar_. _In_ the heavy
          Message 4 of 6 , Dec 31, 2001
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            Poem after Helge's comments :

            > Ai! Telpenor vanya nórë,
            > nai cálë Eruo siluva
            > i lumnë lúmennar,
            > Telpetári, Hyarmenya mírë.
            >
            > Ay! Silver land, fair Nation,
            > may Eru's light shine
            > (in) the heavy moments,
            > Silver Queen, Southern jewel.

            This seems OK, but the translation of the third line should rather be "upon
            the heavy moments", with the use of the allative _lúmennar_.
            "_In_ the heavy moments" should be _i lumnë lúmesse_, no ?

            Nai vinya loa sina quantuva hónelya alassenen !

            Sébastien Bertho, estaina Aryáro Varya Endóresse.
          • Diego Segui
            Aiya Serena! Ar [1] inye Telpenoorello! Etencien pitya nat noorelvo [2], nai meluvalyes :) A Telpenoore melima, sercelya naa i hiinion [3] nosselion, i oiale
            Message 5 of 6 , Dec 31, 2001
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              Aiya Serena! Ar [1] inye Telpenoorello!
               
              Etencien pitya nat noorelvo [2], nai meluvalyes :)
               
              A Telpenoore melima,
              sercelya naa i hiinion [3]
              nosselion, i oiale [4]
              olosta seere meruvar.
               
              (O lovely Argentina,
              your blood is (the blood) of the children
              of many peoples, who for ever
              a dream peace will desire.)
               
              Diego Seguí
               
              NOTES
               
              [0] I tried to make it sound iambic. Did I succeed?
               
              [1] A bold transferrence from the Latin construction 'et ego', since I couldn't find anything for 'also, too'.
               
              [2] Am I right to think that the quenya genitive expresses subject matter? It seems so from Quenta Silmarillion = 'History of [i.e., about] the Silmarils'
               
              [3] A second serce is elided here, do you think it is right?
               
              [4] Nosseli: Spain is also known as Nosselinor, 'land of many peoples', and we Argentinians usually refer to it as 'La Madre Patria'; but here I try to be even broader, for genuine Spanish blood is in fact almost a minority. [BTW, Argentina is usually referred to as 'Kyelepea',  but that is a long story].
               
              [5] And how do you say 'Corrections & Comments please'? :)
            • Serena Del Bianco
              Aiya Diego :) ... Looks pretty good to me. Although olosta seems to mean sleepy or dreamy I d translate it as a dream of (a) peace = seréva olórë Or
              Message 6 of 6 , Jan 4, 2002
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                Aiya Diego :)

                > Aiya Serena! Ar [1] inye Telpenoorello!
                >
                > Etencien pitya nat noorelvo [2], nai meluvalyes :)
                >
                > A Telpenoore melima,
                > sercelya naa i hiinion [3]
                > nosselion, i oiale [4]
                > olosta seere meruvar.
                >

                Looks pretty good to me.
                Although olosta seems to mean "sleepy or dreamy"

                I'd translate it as a 'dream of (a) peace' = seréva olórë
                Or maybe 'peaceful dream' = serëa olórë

                'Dreamy peace' does not seem to fit into the context.

                > (O lovely Argentina,
                > your blood is (the blood) of the children
                > of many peoples, who for ever
                > a dream peace will desire.)
                >
                > Diego Seguí
                >
                > NOTES
                >
                > [0] I tried to make it sound iambic. Did I succeed?

                That is a question to be answered by someone with knowledge in Quenya
                phonology I'm afraid :) I don't know where is the accented syllable in
                each word.

                >
                > [1] A bold transferrence from the Latin construction 'et ego', since I
                > couldn't find anything for 'also, too'.

                Hmm. I believe the closest expression is 've <pron>'

                I.e Arwen ná vanya vendë, ve Éowyn 'Arwen is (a) beautiful maiden, like
                Éowyn' ==> Éowyn, ve se, ná vanya vendë. 'Éowyn, like her, is a beautiful
                maiden.'

                >
                > [2] Am I right to think that the quenya genitive expresses subject matter?
                > It seems so from Quenta Silmarillion = 'History of [i.e., about] the
                > Silmarils'

                I don't understend that question. Silmarillion would be in spanish a
                "modificador indirecto". By definition any 'modifier' of the subject
                expresses nucleus matters...

                > [3] A second serce is elided here, do you think it is right?

                I understood it without the second 'serce' :)

                >
                > [4] Nosseli: Spain is also known as Nosselinor, 'land of many peoples', and
                > we Argentinians usually refer to it as 'La Madre Patria'; but here I try
                > to be even broader, for genuine Spanish blood is in fact almost a minority.
                > [BTW, Argentina is usually referred to as 'Kyelepea', but that is a long
                > story].
                >

                Indeed, I don't have Spanish blood at all but that's another topic :)

                As for Kyelepea, I believe Argentina = Argent (from Argentum) + latin
                suffix -ina, therefore shouldn't be

                Kyelep- + a feminine ending found at

                http://www.uib.no/People/hnohf/affix~1.htm#C ?


                Cheers,

                --
                Serena

                http://serena.mine.nu

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