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Re: [quenya] elen siila luumenn' omentielmo!

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  • Ales Bican
    [quite a late responce, I know...] ... **Lertalye cenda os sine tengwar mi Lavir Salon centa natsemenyasse estaina Alalme. [You can read about these symbols in
    Message 1 of 7 , Oct 31, 2000
      [quite a late responce, I know...]

      Nathan Roy wrote:

      > Man naa i cilme tengwaron ‘oore’ ar ‘roomen’ mi teecale?

      **Lertalye cenda os sine tengwar mi Lavir Salon centa
      natsemenyasse estaina Alalme. [You can read about these symbols in
      David Salo's enquiry/*essay on my site called 'elm'.]
      http://www.inf.upol.cz/~mullerr/theresa/spelling.html
      [Sounds like an advertising, I know...]

      > Naar tehtar ve ‘quotation marks’, ‘parentheses’ ar ‘question marks’?

      **Maqueta Angasuule! Melis Tengwar: aiya, Angasuule, ma elye sinome?
      Ma polilye resta son?
      [Ask Angasuule! He loves Tengwar: hey, Angasuule, are you here?
      Can you help him?]
      [_resta-_ "aid, help", QL]

      > Man tatya (pluralizes?) quettar tyeldion –ie ar –ee?

      **Sanalye quettar ve _rie_, _lie_,... ar _ree_, _pee_...? [You think
      words as ... and ...?]
      Intyar: [My guesses:]
      _rie_ - _rier_
      _lie_ - _lier_
      _ree_ - _rii_
      _pee_ - _pii_
      Nan umimme anwa. Man ista? [But we are not sure. Who knows?]

      > Polalye tece ‘adverbs’, ar

      **[I will use English here.]
      I am sure what do you mean. Do want Quenya words for "adverbs"
      etc. or do you want to know how to form them?
      Anyway,...
      We have adj. _anda_ "long" and adv. _andave_ "long", so we guess
      we can form adverbs using this ending (sc. _-ve_).

      > ‘comparative’

      **Unfortunately we do not know how to form compatives.

      > ar ‘superlative’

      **With the prefix _an-_ like in _ancalima_ "the brightest".

      > ‘adjectives’?

      **Hm, hm, do you want to know how you can form adjectives?
      Or am I completely out? Your _polalye tece?_ [should be _polilye
      tece_] would mean "can you write".

      > Ar naa ‘Elfling’ maara naamon ve ni?

      **Ai, ma "naamon"? [Alas, what is "naamon"?]

      > Meeran i natsemen (web-site?) ‘Ardalambion’.

      **Sanalye 'meelan', laa 'meeran', yee, melilme Ardalambion.
      [You think 'meelan' (sc. "I am loving"), not 'meeran' (sc. "I am
      wanting"), yeah, we love Ardalambion.]


      Alda
    • Nathan Roy
      Thank you for the info! There was no explanation of how to make adverbs or superlatives in the grammar I found. I looked at the document you suggested, and was
      Message 2 of 7 , Nov 1, 2000
        Thank you for the info! There was no explanation of how to make adverbs or
        superlatives in the grammar I found.

        I looked at the document you suggested, and was reminded on another
        question. What is the "w-curl"? There are several symbols in the tengwar
        font that I do not know the meanings of, including three sets of curl
        add-ons. Where can I find out about these?

        The word "naamon" is the plural of "naamo", which I found in the quenya
        corpus wordlist. If I remember correctly, it means "something". Doesn't
        really matter.

        I was wondering if there was any difference between the verbs "mer-" and
        "mel-". Thanks for clearing that up.

        Anyway, I have been working on a simple story for my language club with Greg
        Dyke. We have discussed the first two paragraphs, and now that I learned how
        to operate in Egroups, I can send it to the rest of you!

        See you later...

        Cuiviendil (Nathan Roy)
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      • Ales Bican
        ... **If you have instaled Dan Smith Tengwar fonts, look at the mentioned article, I added some notes below; no.12 shows this. ... **I think you can try Dan
        Message 3 of 7 , Nov 1, 2000
          Nathan Roy wrote:

          > I looked at the document you suggested, and was reminded on another
          > question. What is the "w-curl"?

          **If you have instaled Dan Smith' Tengwar fonts, look at the
          mentioned article, I added some notes below; no.12 shows this.

          > There are several symbols in the tengwar
          > font that I do not know the meanings of, including three sets of curl
          > add-ons. Where can I find out about these?

          **I think you can try Dan Smith' page and his helpfiles:
          http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/4948/tengwar.htm
          and also try this:
          http://user.tninet.se/~xof995c/

          > The word "naamon" is the plural of "naamo", which I found in the quenya
          > corpus wordlist. If I remember correctly, it means "something". Doesn't
          > really matter.

          **It is "a judge" or "a person, somebody".

          > Anyway, I have been working on a simple story for my language club with Greg
          > Dyke. We have discussed the first two paragraphs, and now that I learned how
          > to operate in Egroups, I can send it to the rest of you!

          **Fine.


          Alda
        • Angasule
          ... Tancave! Nan quentuvanyes Ilquestanen, laa istan nyaritas Quenyanen [Certainly! But I will say it in the Common Speech (English, I don t know how to call
          Message 4 of 7 , Nov 1, 2000
            > Nathan Roy wrote:
            >
            > > Man naa i cilme tengwaron ‘oore’ ar ‘roomen’ mi teecale?
            >
            > **Lertalye cenda os sine tengwar mi Lavir Salon centa
            > natsemenyasse estaina Alalme. [You can read about these symbols in
            > David Salo's enquiry/*essay on my site called 'elm'.]
            > http://www.inf.upol.cz/~mullerr/theresa/spelling.html
            > [Sounds like an advertising, I know...]
            >
            > > Naar tehtar ve ‘quotation marks’, ‘parentheses’ ar ‘question marks’?
            >
            > **Maqueta Angasuule! Melis Tengwar: aiya, Angasuule, ma elye sinome?
            > Ma polilye resta son?
            > [Ask Angasuule! He loves Tengwar: hey, Angasuule, are you here?
            > Can you help him?]
            > [_resta-_ "aid, help", QL]
            Tancave! Nan quentuvanyes Ilquestanen, laa istan nyaritas Quenyanen
            [Certainly! But I will say it in the Common Speech (English, I don't
            know how to call it in Quenya), I don't know how to say it in Quenya
            (what do you think of the use of -ita here?)].
            Well, about roomen and oore it's not difficult once one has memorized
            where to use them, it's pretty much reduced to use oore before full
            consonants (all consonants except 'w' and 'y') and finally, and use
            roomen before vowels, 'w' and 'y' (which means inital 'r' is written
            with roomen).
            As for quotation marks and parentheses I haven't seen any directly from
            Tolkien (I lack many books), although I believe he used some in early (I
            don't know how early) writings, when he was writing English with
            tengwar, you can see them at Dan Smith's help files (I don't have the
            address, but you can get it from Ardalambion's links). The question mark
            looks like tinco with an extra bow *below* the first one, with the lower
            end of the bow reaching and going to the left of the stem. Something
            like this (I'm terrible with ASCII art, please forgive!):

            |--\
            | |
            |-/
            | \
            | |
            | /
            | /
            |/
            /
            /

            Angasule
          • Nathan Roy
            Ahhh... I thought that strange telco symbol looked like punctuation! Writing systems that are nothing but one letter per sound can be so boring without
            Message 5 of 7 , Nov 3, 2000
              Ahhh... I thought that strange telco symbol looked like punctuation! Writing
              systems that are nothing but one letter per sound can be so boring without
              interesting surprises in them.

              Here are all those curly tehtar I found using the "insert symbol" command
              with Tengwar-Quenya font:


              ? ? ? S ?

              /--\ /--\ --\
              ----/---/ ----/ / ----/ ----\ /
              _/ --/ /
              \_/

              Each one seems to have a counterpart for use with the upper-bowed tengwar as
              well. Besides the "s-curl", I have no idea what any of them mean! Being the
              kind of person who enjoys strange quirks, it would be great to find them
              out.

              I also remember some other symbols that looked like modified tengwar. One is
              harma with an extra curl coming from the stem, and the other suule with the
              letter two instead of a bow:

              /----| |
              / | |
              | / | |/--\
              \ \__| | /
              /
              /__

              Well, if anyone knows some of these, I'd appreciate hearing about them.
              Thanks for the info so far!

              Cuiviendil (Nathan Roy)
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            • Angasule
              Well, first of all let me advice you to carry on this topic on Elfscript, a mailing list dedicated to Tolkien s scripts, to subscribe to it send a blank email
              Message 6 of 7 , Nov 3, 2000
                Well, first of all let me advice you to carry on this topic on
                Elfscript, a mailing list dedicated to Tolkien's scripts, to subscribe
                to it send a blank email to elfscript-subscribe@egroups.com and messages
                should go to elfscript@egroups.com . AFAIK this list is meant for Quenya
                texts, for general (and not-so-general) questions about Tolkien's
                language there's Elfling, too.

                > Here are all those curly tehtar I found using the "insert symbol" command
                > with Tengwar-Quenya font:
                >
                > ? ? ? S ?
                >
                > /--\ /--\ --\
                > ----/---/ ----/ / ----/ ----\ /
                > _/ --/ /
                > \_/
                >
                > Each one seems to have a counterpart for use with the upper-bowed tengwar as
                > well. Besides the "s-curl", I have no idea what any of them mean! Being the
                > kind of person who enjoys strange quirks, it would be great to find them
                > out.
                All those are s-curls, there's just more than one shape for it.

                > I also remember some other symbols that looked like modified tengwar. One is
                > harma with an extra curl coming from the stem, and the other suule with the
                > letter two instead of a bow:
                >
                > /----| |
                > / | |
                > | / | |/--\
                > \ \__| | /
                > /
                > /__
                No idea about these, they may not be tengwar at all (like 0157 and 0158
                ;) ).
                Angasule
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