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953Re: [quenya] Re: Lamb, Shepherd etc

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  • DiegoSeguí
    Apr 6, 2003
      --- "Patrick H. Wynne" <pwynne@...> wrote:

      > amanibhavam wrote, regarding Q. _�rava (o)messe_ 'have mercy
      on us':
      >
      > > this is interesting. I do not possess VT44. What is the roor
      of _�rava_? And by what conception is the pronoun in locative?
      >
      > In VT44 I theorize that the root of this form is DAB- 'give
      way, make room, permit, allow' (V:353), with prefixion of _�-_
      'together' (< W�- 'together', V:399), i.e. _*w�dab-_ > _�rav-_
      (with medial _*d_ > _r_ as usual in Q.) So the construction of
      this Q. word appears to parallel that of Latin _compati_ 'to
      feel pity', < _com-_ 'together' + _pati_ 'suffer, undergo;
      permit, allow'.

      As regards this paralelism, maybe I'm wrong, but I thought that
      'permit, allow' as a dynamic meaning of the root of _pati_ was
      an extension of the basic meaning of 'suffer, undergo' (i.e. a
      purely 'passive' sense); and that it is this basic meaning that
      is still present in _compati_ (or Gr. _sympaskhein_): 'to suffer
      with one; to have compassion, to feel pity', without the 'allow'
      addition; whereas DAB in Etym. seems dynamic through and
      through, without a hint of the 'passive' sense.

      So, if DAB was incorporated, wouldn't _�rava_ mean rather "to
      allow with", whatever that might be? Not that I have a better
      suggestion for the etymology of _�rava_ (neither do I have VT44,
      so I've probably missed something, and all this is nonsense :D).

      Surely you are right that Tolkien used some kind of paralelism
      with _compati_ (although neither English, Latin nor Greek use
      similar constructions in their respective wordings of the
      prayer), but I still cannot see the relation with DAB. Or is it
      attested with the 'suffer, undergo' meaning?

      Diego Segui

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