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Re: [puzzles] Re: Ali the Thief [continuation]

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  • Anthony Immanuel
    Just adding a twist to it. a) he dont knows that there is weight difference. But dont know whether the correct ones weigh more or less. b) The scale is
    Message 1 of 15 , Oct 2, 2007
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      Just adding a twist to it.

      a) he dont knows that there is weight difference. But dont know
      whether the correct ones weigh more or less.

      b) The scale is replaced by a balance.

      Now how many attempts Ali needs to find out the correct ones?


      --- Andri Effendy <b1nusian@...> wrote:

      > I think Betsy, sweet and Roy has got it right, but for what's
      > it
      > worth, here is the answer anyway :
      > Ali put the bags in a row and removed one stone from the first
      > bag,
      > two from the second, three from the third, etc. He therefore
      > had 55
      > stones. If all the stones weighed 1 gram, the total weight
      > would be 55
      > grams. But Ali knew that some were 0.2 grams lighter. So
      > supposing the
      > total weight had been 54.6 grams, he would have known that it
      > was bag
      > no.2 which contained the diamonds (53 stones at 1 gram and two
      > stones
      > at 0.8 gram each = 1.6 grams). If the total had weighed 54.2
      > grams, he
      > would have known it was the fourth bag he was looking for (51
      > stones
      > at 1 gram and 4 stones at 0.8 gram each = 3.2 grams). In this
      > way he
      > could locate the bag with the real diamonds with no trouble at
      > all.
      >
      >




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    • Ed Murphy
      ... I assume this should be he does know that there is a weight difference . ... [spoiler space] Each weighing can produce three results (tilt left / tilt
      Message 2 of 15 , Oct 2, 2007
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        On 10/2/07, Anthony Immanuel <manuroam@...> wrote:

        > Just adding a twist to it.
        >
        > a) he dont knows that there is weight difference. But dont know
        > whether the correct ones weigh more or less.

        I assume this should be "he does know that there is a weight difference".

        > b) The scale is replaced by a balance.
        >
        > Now how many attempts Ali needs to find out the correct ones?

        [spoiler space]



















































        Each weighing can produce three results (tilt left / tilt right /
        balance), so two weighings can distinguish between at most 3^2 = 9
        bags (even without considering the complication of whether the real
        ones weigh more or less than the fake ones). 10 bags require at
        least three weighings.

        For more on this variation, see
        http://faqs.org/faqs/puzzles/archive/logic/part5/
        (scroll down to "logic/weighing/balance")
      • Andri Effendy
        thats so creative of you man. i am having a hard time answering that. for more puzzles visit : http://www.brainteaser-puzzles.blogspot.com
        Message 3 of 15 , Oct 2, 2007
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          thats so creative of you man.
          i am having a hard time answering that.


          for more puzzles visit : http://www.brainteaser-puzzles.blogspot.com
        • Anthony Immanuel
          Dear Ed Murphy, thanks for correcting. 3 weighings is good enough for up to 12 bags is my guess. A fourth attempt may bot be needed. I am not 100% confidant.
          Message 4 of 15 , Oct 2, 2007
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            Dear Ed Murphy, thanks for correcting.

            3 weighings is good enough for up to 12 bags is my guess.
            A fourth attempt may bot be needed.

            I am not 100% confidant. Needs to think it thoroughly.

            for 12, it goes like 3x4 sets. Two sets compared. Either
            balance/imbalance. We will rule out either 4 or 8 being correct.
            We can use the knowledge of which ones were down in balance,
            which ones were up, which ones or correct in the second round.


            --- Ed Murphy <emurphy42@...> wrote:

            > On 10/2/07, Anthony Immanuel <manuroam@...> wrote:
            >
            > > Just adding a twist to it.
            > >
            > > a) he dont knows that there is weight difference. But dont
            > know
            > > whether the correct ones weigh more or less.
            >
            > I assume this should be "he does know that there is a weight
            > difference".
            >
            > > b) The scale is replaced by a balance.
            > >
            > > Now how many attempts Ali needs to find out the correct
            > ones?
            >
            > [spoiler space]
            >
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            > Each weighing can produce three results (tilt left / tilt
            > right /
            > balance), so two weighings can distinguish between at most 3^2
            > = 9
            > bags (even without considering the complication of whether the
            > real
            > ones weigh more or less than the fake ones). 10 bags require
            > at
            > least three weighings.
            >
            > For more on this variation, see
            > http://faqs.org/faqs/puzzles/archive/logic/part5/
            > (scroll down to "logic/weighing/balance")
            >




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          • teto_2002_20002
            ... _____________________________________________________________________
            Message 5 of 15 , Oct 3, 2007
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              --- In puzzles@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Immanuel <manuroam@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > Just adding a twist to it.
              >
              > a) he dont knows that there is weight difference. But dont know
              > whether the correct ones weigh more or less.
              >
              > b) The scale is replaced by a balance.
              >
              > Now how many attempts Ali needs to find out the correct ones?
              >
              >
              > --- Andri Effendy <b1nusian@...> wrote:
              >
              > > I think Betsy, sweet and Roy has got it right, but for what's
              > > it
              > > worth, here is the answer anyway :
              > > Ali put the bags in a row and removed one stone from the first
              > > bag,
              > > two from the second, three from the third, etc. He therefore
              > > had 55
              > > stones. If all the stones weighed 1 gram, the total weight
              > > would be 55
              > > grams. But Ali knew that some were 0.2 grams lighter. So
              > > supposing the
              > > total weight had been 54.6 grams, he would have known that it
              > > was bag
              > > no.2 which contained the diamonds (53 stones at 1 gram and two
              > > stones
              > > at 0.8 gram each = 1.6 grams). If the total had weighed 54.2
              > > grams, he
              > > would have known it was the fourth bag he was looking for (51
              > > stones
              > > at 1 gram and 4 stones at 0.8 gram each = 3.2 grams). In this
              > > way he
              > > could locate the bag with the real diamonds with no trouble at
              > > all.
              > >
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
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