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Re: [psychiatry-research] article: Bitterness as mental illness?

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  • dixie_dean@lumison.co.uk
    There seems very little in human nature psychiatry doesn t think mental illness. That, of course, reflects the DCM/ICD phrase ending each category . . . and
    Message 1 of 14 , Jun 3, 2009
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      There seems very little in human nature psychiatry doesn't think mental
      illness. That, of course, reflects the DCM/ICD phrase ending each
      category
      '. . . and other unspecified'. What other branch of medicine is so
      cavalier in labelling?

      Yet I've never seen a definition of normality. Have you?

      dixie
      ps: Sorry, but my and the experience of so many I know and so many others
      I've have met leave no alternative to scepticism and dismay. Meanwhile
      Big Pharma rejoices and opens yet more champagne
      -----

      > http://www.latimes.com/features/health/newsletter/la-he-bitterness25-2009may25,0,7296567.story
      >
      > Bitterness as mental illness?
      > Bitter behavior is so common and deeply destructive that some
      > psychiatrists are urging it be identified as a mental illness under the
      > name post-traumatic embitterment disorder.
      > By Shari Roan         May 25, 2009
      >  
      > You know them. I know them. And, increasingly, psychiatrists know them.
      > People who feel they have been wronged by someone and are so bitter they
      > can barely function other than to ruminate about their circumstances.
      > This behavior is so common -- and so deeply destructive -- that some
      > psychiatrists are urging it be identified as a mental illness under the
      > name post-traumatic embitterment disorder. The behavior was discussed
      > before an enthusiastic audience last week at a meeting of the American
      > Psychiatric Assn. in San Francisco.
      > The disorder is modeled after post-traumatic stress disorder because it
      > too is a response to a trauma that endures. People with PTSD are left
      > fearful and anxious. Embittered people are left seething for revenge.
      > "They feel the world has treated them unfairly. It's one step more complex
      > than anger. They're angry plus helpless," says Dr. Michael Linden, a
      > German psychiatrist who named the behavior.
      > Embittered people are typically good people who have worked hard at
      > something important, such as a job, relationship or activity, Linden says.
      > When something unexpectedly awful happens -- they don't get the promotion,
      > their spouse files for divorce or they fail to make the Olympic team -- a
      > profound sense of injustice overtakes them. Instead of dealing with the
      > loss with the help of family and friends, they cannot let go of the
      > feeling of being victimized. Almost immediately after the traumatic event,
      > they become angry, pessimistic, aggressive, hopeless haters.
      > "Embitterment is a violation of basic beliefs," Linden says. "It causes a
      > very severe emotional reaction. . . . We are always coping with negative
      > life events. It's the reaction that varies."
      > There are only a handful of studies on the condition, but psychiatrists at
      > the meeting agreed that much more research is needed on identifying and
      > helping these people. One estimate is that 1% to 2% of the population is
      > embittered, says Linden, who has published several studies on the
      > condition.
      > "These people usually don't come to treatment because 'the world has to
      > change, not me,' " Linden says. "They are almost treatment resistant. . .
      > . Revenge is not a treatment."
      > Nevertheless, Linden suggests that people once known as loving, normal
      > individuals who suddenly snap and kill their family and themselves may
      > have post-traumatic embitterment syndrome. That's reason enough for
      > researchers to study how to treat the destructive emotion of bitterness.
      >
      >
      >
    • drnanjo@aol.com
      Soon every mood state that does not resemble pure joy in living will be diagnosable and treatable. Cheer up....or else. Nancy Melucci Long Beach CA Make a
      Message 2 of 14 , Jun 3, 2009
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        Soon every mood state that does not resemble pure joy in living will be diagnosable and treatable.
         
        Cheer up....or else.
         
        Nancy Melucci
        Long Beach CA
        Make a Small Loan, Make a Big Difference - Check out Kiva.org to Learn How!
         
        In a message dated 6/3/2009 12:43:35 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, aquaregia31@... writes:



        Bitterness as mental illness?
        Bitter behavior is so common and deeply destructive that some psychiatrists are urging it be identified as a mental illness under the name post-traumatic embitterment disorder.
        By Shari Roan         May 25, 2009
         
        You know them. I know them. And, increasingly, psychiatrists know them. People who feel they have been wronged by someone and are so bitter they can barely function other than to ruminate about their circumstances.

        This behavior is so common -- and so deeply destructive -- that some psychiatrists are urging it be identified as a mental illness under the name post-traumatic embitterment disorder. The behavior was discussed before an enthusiastic audience last week at a meeting of the American Psychiatric Assn. in San Francisco.

        The disorder is modeled after post-traumatic stress disorder because it too is a response to a trauma that endures. People with PTSD are left fearful and anxious. Embittered people are left seething for revenge.

        "They feel the world has treated them unfairly. It's one step more complex than anger. They're angry plus helpless," says Dr. Michael Linden, a German psychiatrist who named the behavior.

        Embittered people are typically good people who have worked hard at something important, such as a job, relationship or activity, Linden says. When something unexpectedly awful happens -- they don't get the promotion, their spouse files for divorce or they fail to make the Olympic team -- a profound sense of injustice overtakes them. Instead of dealing with the loss with the help of family and friends, they cannot let go of the feeling of being victimized. Almost immediately after the traumatic event, they become angry, pessimistic, aggressive, hopeless haters.

        "Embitterment is a violation of basic beliefs," Linden says. "It causes a very severe emotional reaction. . . . We are always coping with negative life events. It's the reaction that varies."

        There are only a handful of studies on the condition, but psychiatrists at the meeting agreed that much more research is needed on identifying and helping these people. One estimate is that 1% to 2% of the population is embittered, says Linden, who has published several studies on the condition.

        "These people usually don't come to treatment because 'the world has to change, not me,' " Linden says. "They are almost treatment resistant. . . . Revenge is not a treatment."

        Nevertheless, Linden suggests that people once known as loving, normal individuals who suddenly snap and kill their family and themselves may have post-traumatic embitterment syndrome. That's reason enough for researchers to study how to treat the destructive emotion of bitterness.

      • dixie_dean@lumison.co.uk
        My experience as both patient and researcher supports your tongue in cheek comment Nancy When I appeared on schedule before a psychiatrist he asked How are
        Message 3 of 14 , Jun 3, 2009
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          My experience as both patient and researcher supports your tongue in cheek
          comment Nancy

          When I appeared on schedule before a psychiatrist he asked "How are you
          feeling?". If I said "A bit down" my medication was changed regardless of
          WHY I was feeling somewhat low. If I said "Cheerful" again my medication
          was changed regardless of why. It was called 'stabilisation'

          Yet every patient I've ever met (including 140 severe and enduring
          schizophrenics and bipolars I interviewed face-to face one on one) all
          hated their moods being so flattened

          Cheer up ....or else indeed. But not too much :-)

          dixie
          -----


          > Soon every mood state that does not resemble pure joy in living will be
          > diagnosable and treatable.
          >
          > Cheer up....or else.
          >
          > Nancy Melucci
          > Long Beach CA
          > Make a Small Loan, Make a Big Difference - Check out Kiva.org to Learn
          > How!
          >
          >
          > In a message dated 6/3/2009 12:43:35 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
          > aquaregia31@... writes:
          >
          _http://www.latimes.http://www.lahttp://www.latimhttp://www.latimhttp://www.
          > latihttp://wwwhttp:_
          > (http://www.latimes.com/features/health/newsletter/la-he-bitterness25-2009may25,0,7296567.story)
          >
          > Bitterness as mental illness?
          > Bitter behavior is so common and deeply destructive that some
          > psychiatrists are urging it be identified as a mental illness under the
          > name
          > post-traumatic embitterment disorder.
          > By Shari Roan May 25, 2009
          >
          > You know them. I know them. And, increasingly, psychiatrists know them.
          > People who feel they have been wronged by someone and are so bitter they
          > can
          > barely function other than to ruminate about their circumstances.
          >
          > This behavior is so common -- and so deeply destructive -- that some
          > psychiatrists are urging it be identified as a mental illness under the
          > name
          > post-traumatic embitterment disorder. The behavior was discussed before
          > an
          > enthusiastic audience last week at a meeting of the American Psychiatric
          > Assn.
          > in San Francisco.
          >
          > The disorder is modeled after post-traumatic stress disorder because it
          > too is a response to a trauma that endures. People with PTSD are left
          > fearful and anxious. Embittered people are left seething for revenge.
          >
          > "They feel the world has treated them unfairly. It's one step more
          > complex
          > than anger. They're angry plus helpless," says Dr. Michael Linden, a
          > German psychiatrist who named the behavior.
          >
          <snip>
        • Kenny Arnette
          Yes, Dixie, soon it will be a mental disorder to reject psychiatry (it s already close to that now). It s a bit like arresting someone solely for resisting
          Message 4 of 14 , Jun 4, 2009
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            Yes, Dixie, soon it will be a mental disorder to reject psychiatry (it's already close to that now). It's a bit like arresting someone solely for resisting arrest. In the past, I have sometimes sought therapy and taken psychoactive prescriptions not because I thought these things would help, but rather because I knew that at some point, I would be taken to task for NOT having a therapist and being on drugs. And, as things turned out, that was a wise course of action.
             
            Regarding the definition of "normal", I used to give my students 6 different definitions of "abnormal" and then discuss the merits and demerits of each. I would follow that with a discussion of what is "normal", but that discussion was brief, because there really is no such thing as a "normal" person (as I would tell the class).
             
            ka
             

            To: psychiatry-research@yahoogroups.com
            From: dixie_dean@...
            Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 21:15:31 +0100
            Subject: Re: [psychiatry-research] article: Bitterness as mental illness?



            There seems very little in human nature psychiatry doesn't think mental
            illness. That, of course, reflects the DCM/ICD phrase ending each
            category
            '. . . and other unspecified' . What other branch of medicine is so
            cavalier in labelling?

            Yet I've never seen a definition of normality. Have you?

            dixie
            ps: Sorry, but my and the experience of so many I know and so many others
            I've have met leave no alternative to scepticism and dismay. Meanwhile
            Big Pharma rejoices and opens yet more champagne
            -----

            > http://www.latimes. com/features/ health/newslette r/la-he-bitterne ss25-2009may25, 0,7296567. story
            >
            > Bitterness as mental illness?
            > Bitter behavior is so common and deeply destructive that some
            > psychiatrists are urging it be identified as a mental illness under the
            > name post-traumatic embitterment disorder.
            > By Shari Roan         May 25, 2009
            >  
            > You know them. I know them. And, increasingly, psychiatrists know them.
            > People who feel they have been wronged by someone and are so bitter they
            > can barely function other than to ruminate about their circumstances.
            > This behavior is so common -- and so deeply destructive -- that some
            > psychiatrists are urging it be identified as a mental illness under the
            > name post-traumatic embitterment disorder. The behavior was discussed
            > before an enthusiastic audience last week at a meeting of the American
            > Psychiatric Assn. in San Francisco.
            > The disorder is modeled after post-traumatic stress disorder because it
            > too is a response to a trauma that endures. People with PTSD are left
            > fearful and anxious. Embittered people are left seething for revenge.
            > "They feel the world has treated them unfairly. It's one step more complex
            > than anger. They're angry plus helpless," says Dr. Michael Linden, a
            > German psychiatrist who named the behavior.
            > Embittered people are typically good people who have worked hard at
            > something important, such as a job, relationship or activity, Linden says.
            > When something unexpectedly awful happens -- they don't get the promotion,
            > their spouse files for divorce or they fail to make the Olympic team -- a
            > profound sense of injustice overtakes them. Instead of dealing with the
            > loss with the help of family and friends, they cannot let go of the
            > feeling of being victimized. Almost immediately after the traumatic event,
            > they become angry, pessimistic, aggressive, hopeless haters.
            > "Embitterment is a violation of basic beliefs," Linden says. "It causes a
            > very severe emotional reaction. . . . We are always coping with negative
            > life events. It's the reaction that varies."
            > There are only a handful of studies on the condition, but psychiatrists at
            > the meeting agreed that much more research is needed on identifying and
            > helping these people. One estimate is that 1% to 2% of the population is
            > embittered, says Linden, who has published several studies on the
            > condition.
            > "These people usually don't come to treatment because 'the world has to
            > change, not me,' " Linden says. "They are almost treatment resistant. . .
            > . Revenge is not a treatment."
            > Nevertheless, Linden suggests that people once known as loving, normal
            > individuals who suddenly snap and kill their family and themselves may
            > have post-traumatic embitterment syndrome. That's reason enough for
            > researchers to study how to treat the destructive emotion of bitterness.
            >
            >
            >




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          • dixie_dean@lumison.co.uk
            Tragic to see medical practitioners who have so lost their way I m experiencing great difficulty in coping with loss of my wife who recently died horrendously
            Message 5 of 14 , Jun 4, 2009
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              Tragic to see medical practitioners who have so lost their way

              I'm experiencing great difficulty in coping with loss of my wife who
              recently died horrendously of Multiple Systems Atrophy with Lewys Bodies.
              I cared for her alone at home until the end with virtually no support from
              the care services. Her eldest son has a serious criminal record and is
              creating endless problems in resolving her pathetic estate

              I see my GP tomorrow but will not accept anti-depressants because that
              would endorse the bipolar misdiagnosis currently on my medical records and
              subject to legal action

              List, please take note and reflect on this situation

              As for 'normal' this is a fascinating issue always hotly debated by
              students of all ages in my international career lecturing on Professional
              Ethics. I have my own view of course, but that served only to stimulate
              debate and has no place on this list

              dixie
              -----
              >
              > Yes, Dixie, soon it will be a mental disorder to reject psychiatry (it's
              > already close to that now). It's a bit like arresting someone solely for
              > resisting arrest. In the past, I have sometimes sought therapy and taken
              > psychoactive prescriptions not because I thought these things would help,
              > but rather because I knew that at some point, I would be taken to task for
              > NOT having a therapist and being on drugs. And, as things turned out, that
              > was a wise course of action.
              >
              >
              >
              > Regarding the definition of "normal", I used to give my students 6
              > different definitions of "abnormal" and then discuss the merits and
              > demerits of each. I would follow that with a discussion of what is
              > "normal", but that discussion was brief, because there really is no such
              > thing as a "normal" person (as I would tell the class).
              >
              >
              > ka
              >
              >
              > To: psychiatry-research@yahoogroups.com
              > From: dixie_dean@...
              > Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 21:15:31 +0100
              > Subject: Re: [psychiatry-research] article: Bitterness as mental illness?
              >
              > There seems very little in human nature psychiatry doesn't think mental
              > illness. That, of course, reflects the DCM/ICD phrase ending each
              > category
              > '. . . and other unspecified'. What other branch of medicine is so
              > cavalier in labelling?
              >
              > Yet I've never seen a definition of normality. Have you?
              >
              > dixie
              > ps: Sorry, but my and the experience of so many I know and so many others
              > I've have met leave no alternative to scepticism and dismay. Meanwhile
              > Big Pharma rejoices and opens yet more champagne
              > -----
              >
              >> http://www.latimes.com/features/health/newsletter/la-he-bitterness25-2009may25,0,7296567.story
              >>
              >> Bitterness as mental illness?
              >> Bitter behavior is so common and deeply destructive that some
              >> psychiatrists are urging it be identified as a mental illness under the
              >> name post-traumatic embitterment disorder.
              >> By Shari Roan May 25, 2009
              >>
              <snip>
            • Roy Sugarman
              Hi I thnk we need to remember that in Psychiatry, a human trait is not considered a pathology unless it causes significant dysfunction within that person s
              Message 6 of 14 , Jun 4, 2009
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                Hi
                 
                I think we need to remember that in Psychiatry, a human trait is not considered a pathology unless it causes significant dysfunction within that person's environment. So bitterness is a usual trait, but would someone who finds they cannot function because of their bitter and negative attitudes not seek help? I assess many CEO's who are ADD, or ADHD, could be termed high functioning psychopaths, or failed narcissists, or any other slick phrase, but recall, these are just words, and no one is just a word, in their human richness.  In many contexts in which I have taught skills to psychiatrists, we make this plain: reducing a human being to a diagnostic category, when we all function in a continuum, is just like saying someone is a cockroach.  People suffer from schizophrenia, but are not schizophrenics, nor depressives, or neurotics.  We each are truly unique, are hardwired differently from each other, but we all try to minimize threat and maximise reward, in order to succeed.  What is missing from psychiatry is the injunction to stay in the room long enough to truly be of help. To find the reason why this person has these symptoms at this time in their lives, and give them a menu of alternatives for them to choose from that others have found useful. Above all, the sage on the stage has no place in the consulting room: the guide by the side, helping people to become experts on themselves, does a lot of good.  What evidence based psychiatry has forgotten, is how to deal with human suffering.
                 
                Roy Sugarman PhD

                On Thu, Jun 4, 2009 at 6:15 AM, <dixie_dean@...> wrote:


                There seems very little in human nature psychiatry doesn't think mental
                illness. That, of course, reflects the DCM/ICD phrase ending each
                category
                '. . . and other unspecified'. What other branch of medicine is so
                cavalier in labelling?

                Yet I've never seen a definition of normality. Have you?

                dixie
                ps: Sorry, but my and the experience of so many I know and so many others
                I've have met leave no alternative to scepticism and dismay. Meanwhile
                Big Pharma rejoices and opens yet more champagne
                -----



                > http://www.latimes.com/features/health/newsletter/la-he-bitterness25-2009may25,0,7296567.story
                >
                > Bitterness as mental illness?
                > Bitter behavior is so common and deeply destructive that some
                > psychiatrists are urging it be identified as a mental illness under the
                > name post-traumatic embitterment disorder.
                > By Shari Roan         May 25, 2009
                >  
                > You know them. I know them. And, increasingly, psychiatrists know them.
                > People who feel they have been wronged by someone and are so bitter they
                > can barely function other than to ruminate about their circumstances.
                > This behavior is so common -- and so deeply destructive -- that some
                > psychiatrists are urging it be identified as a mental illness under the
                > name post-traumatic embitterment disorder. The behavior was discussed
                > before an enthusiastic audience last week at a meeting of the American
                > Psychiatric Assn. in San Francisco.
                > The disorder is modeled after post-traumatic stress disorder because it
                > too is a response to a trauma that endures. People with PTSD are left
                > fearful and anxious. Embittered people are left seething for revenge.
                > "They feel the world has treated them unfairly. It's one step more complex
                > than anger. They're angry plus helpless," says Dr. Michael Linden, a
                > German psychiatrist who named the behavior.
                > Embittered people are typically good people who have worked hard at
                > something important, such as a job, relationship or activity, Linden says.
                > When something unexpectedly awful happens -- they don't get the promotion,
                > their spouse files for divorce or they fail to make the Olympic team -- a
                > profound sense of injustice overtakes them. Instead of dealing with the
                > loss with the help of family and friends, they cannot let go of the
                > feeling of being victimized. Almost immediately after the traumatic event,
                > they become angry, pessimistic, aggressive, hopeless haters.
                > "Embitterment is a violation of basic beliefs," Linden says. "It causes a
                > very severe emotional reaction. . . . We are always coping with negative
                > life events. It's the reaction that varies."
                > There are only a handful of studies on the condition, but psychiatrists at
                > the meeting agreed that much more research is needed on identifying and
                > helping these people. One estimate is that 1% to 2% of the population is
                > embittered, says Linden, who has published several studies on the
                > condition.
                > "These people usually don't come to treatment because 'the world has to
                > change, not me,' " Linden says. "They are almost treatment resistant. . .
                > . Revenge is not a treatment."
                > Nevertheless, Linden suggests that people once known as loving, normal
                > individuals who suddenly snap and kill their family and themselves may
                > have post-traumatic embitterment syndrome. That's reason enough for
                > researchers to study how to treat the destructive emotion of bitterness.
                >
                >
                >




                --
                Roy Sugarman PhD
                Consultant Clinical Neuropsychologist and Clinical Psychologist
                Level 7 Psychology
                Suite 1, Level 7
                35 Spring Street
                Bondi Junction
                NSW 2022
                Australia
                Tel: +61 (0)2 9371 7347
                Mob: +61 (0) 403 289092
                Email: roy@...

              • Roy Sugarman
                Hi Dixie Sorry to hear that....life.....but remember that so much is dependent on believing that what you do, and you alone, makes a difference. What you can
                Message 7 of 14 , Jun 4, 2009
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                  Hi Dixie
                   
                  Sorry to hear that....life.....but remember that so much is dependent on believing that what you do, and you alone, makes a difference.  What you can do is interval training, resistence training, up your Omega 3's, until there are 3 measures to each 2 of Omega 6 (not the 1:15 Americans now have in their diet), breathe yoga style for 20mins a day in total, to maximize your sympathetic nervous system influence, stand and walk, dont sit, log in to a website that shows complex mobilizing flexibility excercises, be around people as much as possible, eat food that has ingredients that you can spell, and which clearly were alive until recently, all of which, if John Ratey, Dick Gevirtz, Snowden and countless others assert, will grow the neuronal connections you need to have the brain power and resilience to deal with what you have to deal with, and help you sense that you are still the expert on you, and give you the capacity to cope with your life.  Sadly, when we are in trouble, we have to realise that, as one of my colleagues, a psychiatrist, always says: NO ONE IS COMING!! its up to you, whatever the GP or Psych might do.  Hope things pan out for you..
                   
                  R

                  On Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 8:55 AM, <dixie_dean@...> wrote:


                  Tragic to see medical practitioners who have so lost their way

                  I'm experiencing great difficulty in coping with loss of my wife who
                  recently died horrendously of Multiple Systems Atrophy with Lewys Bodies.
                  I cared for her alone at home until the end with virtually no support from
                  the care services. Her eldest son has a serious criminal record and is
                  creating endless problems in resolving her pathetic estate

                  I see my GP tomorrow but will not accept anti-depressants because that
                  would endorse the bipolar misdiagnosis currently on my medical records and
                  subject to legal action

                  List, please take note and reflect on this situation

                  As for 'normal' this is a fascinating issue always hotly debated by
                  students of all ages in my international career lecturing on Professional
                  Ethics. I have my own view of course, but that served only to stimulate
                  debate and has no place on this list

                  dixie
                  -----


                  >
                  > Yes, Dixie, soon it will be a mental disorder to reject psychiatry (it's
                  > already close to that now). It's a bit like arresting someone solely for
                  > resisting arrest. In the past, I have sometimes sought therapy and taken
                  > psychoactive prescriptions not because I thought these things would help,
                  > but rather because I knew that at some point, I would be taken to task for
                  > NOT having a therapist and being on drugs. And, as things turned out, that
                  > was a wise course of action.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Regarding the definition of "normal", I used to give my students 6
                  > different definitions of "abnormal" and then discuss the merits and
                  > demerits of each. I would follow that with a discussion of what is
                  > "normal", but that discussion was brief, because there really is no such
                  > thing as a "normal" person (as I would tell the class).
                  >
                  >
                  > ka
                  >
                  >
                  > To: psychiatry-research@yahoogroups.com
                  > From: dixie_dean@...
                  > Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 21:15:31 +0100
                  > Subject: Re: [psychiatry-research] article: Bitterness as mental illness?
                  >
                  > There seems very little in human nature psychiatry doesn't think mental
                  > illness. That, of course, reflects the DCM/ICD phrase ending each
                  > category
                  > '. . . and other unspecified'. What other branch of medicine is so
                  > cavalier in labelling?
                  >
                  > Yet I've never seen a definition of normality. Have you?
                  >
                  > dixie
                  > ps: Sorry, but my and the experience of so many I know and so many others
                  > I've have met leave no alternative to scepticism and dismay. Meanwhile
                  > Big Pharma rejoices and opens yet more champagne
                  > -----
                  >
                  >> http://www.latimes.com/features/health/newsletter/la-he-bitterness25-2009may25,0,7296567.story
                  >>
                  >> Bitterness as mental illness?
                  >> Bitter behavior is so common and deeply destructive that some
                  >> psychiatrists are urging it be identified as a mental illness under the
                  >> name post-traumatic embitterment disorder.
                  >> By Shari Roan May 25, 2009
                  >>
                  <snip>




                  --
                  Roy Sugarman PhD
                  Consultant Clinical Neuropsychologist and Clinical Psychologist
                  Level 7 Psychology
                  Suite 1, Level 7
                  35 Spring Street
                  Bondi Junction
                  NSW 2022
                  Australia
                  Tel: +61 (0)2 9371 7347
                  Mob: +61 (0) 403 289092
                  Email: roy@...

                • dixie_dean@lumison.co.uk
                  Thanks Roy Like most people I ve been through storms before and firmly believe If it doesn t kill you it makes you stronger . I ve long known my state and
                  Message 8 of 14 , Jun 5, 2009
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                    Thanks Roy

                    Like most people I've been through storms before and firmly believe 'If it
                    doesn't kill you it makes you stronger'. I've long known my state and
                    fate lie in my own hands alone

                    Man's a pack animal so close human contact is vital for emotional health.
                    Good company's my central need, not easily satisfied in this remote little
                    Scottish Highland town I've only lived in 15yrs

                    I eat lots of oily fish so Omega 3 should be OK; am a good cook eating
                    little from supermarkets; practised and taught meditation for 30yrs. I'm
                    an amateur mycologist cited in a major Scottish Foresty study; know and
                    love the remote Culbin Forest and Dava Moor

                    All the building blocks are there but not the will to use them (classic
                    depression, I suspect). Bless you for caring. It helps. I've just got
                    to get a grip, and that I will

                    dixie
                    -----

                    > Hi Dixie
                    >
                    > Sorry to hear that....life.....but remember that so much is dependent on
                    > believing that what you do, and you alone, makes a difference. What you
                    > can
                    > do is interval training, resistence training, up your Omega 3's, until
                    > there
                    > are 3 measures to each 2 of Omega 6 (not the 1:15 Americans now have in
                    > their diet), breathe yoga style for 20mins a day in total, to maximize
                    > your
                    > sympathetic nervous system influence, stand and walk, dont sit, log in to
                    > a
                    > website that shows complex mobilizing flexibility excercises, be around
                    > people as much as possible, eat food that has ingredients that you can
                    > spell, and which clearly were alive until recently, all of which, if John
                    > Ratey, Dick Gevirtz, Snowden and countless others assert, will grow the
                    > neuronal connections you need to have the brain power and resilience to
                    > deal
                    > with what you have to deal with, and help you sense that you are still the
                    > expert on you, and give you the capacity to cope with your life. Sadly,
                    > when we are in trouble, we have to realise that, as one of my colleagues,
                    > a
                    > psychiatrist, always says: NO ONE IS COMING!! its up to you, whatever the
                    > GP
                    > or Psych might do. Hope things pan out for you..
                    >
                    > R
                    >
                    > On Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 8:55 AM, <dixie_dean@...> wrote:
                    >
                    <Snip>
                    >
                    > --
                    > Roy Sugarman PhD
                    > Consultant Clinical Neuropsychologist and Clinical Psychologist
                    > Level 7 Psychology
                    > Suite 1, Level 7
                    > 35 Spring Street
                    > Bondi Junction
                    > NSW 2022
                    > Australia
                    > Tel: +61 (0)2 9371 7347
                    > Mob: +61 (0) 403 289092
                    > Email: roy@...
                    >
                  • dixie_dean@lumison.co.uk
                    Message 9 of 14 , Jun 5, 2009
                    • 0 Attachment
                      <a human trait is not considered a pathology unless it causes significant
                      dysfunction within that person's environment>

                      Fair enough; but that places responsibility for fitting in wholly on the
                      individual which is neither realistic nor reflected in well working
                      societies (Japan, my specialisation is uniquely different)

                      What of difference intolerance in Christian judgemental societies?
                      Where's the place for eccentrics, of whom Britain was once so proud?
                      How do you account for psychiatry's escalating diagnosis rate

                      No Roy, we have no evidence of bitterness in primitive cultures. It's a
                      trait of so-called civilisation

                      But how right you are that psychiatrists don't spend the time essential to
                      understanding their patients before disposing of them!

                      dixie
                      -----
                      ps: I wrote to the R.C. of Psychology asking did they not think they
                      should challenge pre-eminence of psychiatry in treating distress; and
                      would that not well serve both public and the profession? They replied to
                      the effect 'We don't interfere in other people's business' . . .

                      > Hi
                      >
                      > I thnk we need to remember that in Psychiatry, a human trait is not
                      > considered a pathology unless it causes significant dysfunction within
                      > that
                      > person's environment. So bitterness is a usual trait, but would someone
                      > who
                      > finds they cannot function because of their bitter and negative attitudes
                      > not seek help? I assess many CEO's who are ADD, or ADHD, could be
                      > termed high functioning psychopaths, or failed narcissists, or any other
                      > slick phrase, but recall, these are just words, and no one is just a word,
                      > in their human richness. In many contexts in which I have taught skills
                      > to
                      > psychiatrists, we make this plain: reducing a human being to a diagnostic
                      > category, when we all function in a continuum, is just like saying someone
                      > is a cockroach. People suffer from schizophrenia, but are not
                      > schizophrenics, nor depressives, or neurotics. We each are truly unique,
                      > are hardwired differently from each other, but we all try to minimize
                      > threat
                      > and maximise reward, in order to succeed. What is missing from psychiatry
                      > is the injunction to stay in the room long enough to truly be of help. To
                      > find the reason why this person has these symptoms at this time in their
                      > lives, and give them a menu of alternatives for them to choose from that
                      > others have found useful. Above all, the sage on the stage has no place in
                      > the consulting room: the guide by the side, helping people to become
                      > experts
                      > on themselves, does a lot of good. What evidence based psychiatry has
                      > forgotten, is how to deal with human suffering.
                      >
                      > Roy Sugarman PhD
                      >
                      > On Thu, Jun 4, 2009 at 6:15 AM, <dixie_dean@...> wrote:
                      >
                      <snip>
                      >
                      >
                      > --
                      > Roy Sugarman PhD
                      > Consultant Clinical Neuropsychologist and Clinical Psychologist
                      > Level 7 Psychology
                      > Suite 1, Level 7
                      > 35 Spring Street
                      > Bondi Junction
                      > NSW 2022
                      > Australia
                      > Tel: +61 (0)2 9371 7347
                      > Mob: +61 (0) 403 289092
                      > Email: roy@...
                    • Roy Sugarman
                      Hey Dixie I am sure you will....but the best boost for the dopamine and the beginnings of the will seem to come with the vital aspect of interval training,
                      Message 10 of 14 , Jun 5, 2009
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Hey Dixie
                         
                        I am sure you will....but the best boost for the dopamine and the beginnings of the will seem to come with the vital aspect of interval training, mindless mindfullness I suppose, walk 20 sprint 20 building up, something goes pop, and then the reward seeking comes back in, booting the neurohumeral response back to life, and making willpower seem like second nature again...we spent the last 450 000 years on the move, without it, apathy seems to creep in.....good luck Mate...
                         
                        Roy

                        On Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 5:31 PM, <dixie_dean@...> wrote:


                        Thanks Roy

                        Like most people I've been through storms before and firmly believe 'If it
                        doesn't kill you it makes you stronger'. I've long known my state and
                        fate lie in my own hands alone

                        Man's a pack animal so close human contact is vital for emotional health.
                        Good company's my central need, not easily satisfied in this remote little
                        Scottish Highland town I've only lived in 15yrs

                        I eat lots of oily fish so Omega 3 should be OK; am a good cook eating
                        little from supermarkets; practised and taught meditation for 30yrs. I'm
                        an amateur mycologist cited in a major Scottish Foresty study; know and
                        love the remote Culbin Forest and Dava Moor

                        All the building blocks are there but not the will to use them (classic
                        depression, I suspect). Bless you for caring. It helps. I've just got
                        to get a grip, and that I will

                        dixie
                        -----



                        > Hi Dixie
                        >
                        > Sorry to hear that....life.....but remember that so much is dependent on
                        > believing that what you do, and you alone, makes a difference. What you
                        > can
                        > do is interval training, resistence training, up your Omega 3's, until
                        > there
                        > are 3 measures to each 2 of Omega 6 (not the 1:15 Americans now have in
                        > their diet), breathe yoga style for 20mins a day in total, to maximize
                        > your
                        > sympathetic nervous system influence, stand and walk, dont sit, log in to
                        > a
                        > website that shows complex mobilizing flexibility excercises, be around
                        > people as much as possible, eat food that has ingredients that you can
                        > spell, and which clearly were alive until recently, all of which, if John
                        > Ratey, Dick Gevirtz, Snowden and countless others assert, will grow the
                        > neuronal connections you need to have the brain power and resilience to
                        > deal
                        > with what you have to deal with, and help you sense that you are still the
                        > expert on you, and give you the capacity to cope with your life. Sadly,
                        > when we are in trouble, we have to realise that, as one of my colleagues,
                        > a
                        > psychiatrist, always says: NO ONE IS COMING!! its up to you, whatever the
                        > GP
                        > or Psych might do. Hope things pan out for you..
                        >
                        > R
                        >
                        > On Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 8:55 AM, <dixie_dean@...> wrote:
                        >
                        <Snip>
                        >
                        > --

                        > Roy Sugarman PhD
                        > Consultant Clinical Neuropsychologist and Clinical Psychologist
                        > Level 7 Psychology
                        > Suite 1, Level 7
                        > 35 Spring Street
                        > Bondi Junction
                        > NSW 2022
                        > Australia
                        > Tel: +61 (0)2 9371 7347
                        > Mob: +61 (0) 403 289092
                        > Email: roy@...
                        >




                        --
                        Roy Sugarman PhD
                        Consultant Clinical Neuropsychologist and Clinical Psychologist
                        Level 7 Psychology
                        Suite 1, Level 7
                        35 Spring Street
                        Bondi Junction
                        NSW 2022
                        Australia
                        Tel: +61 (0)2 9371 7347
                        Mob: +61 (0) 403 289092
                        Email: roy@...

                      • dixie_dean@lumison.co.uk
                        Roy, I m 72; 40 years addicted to tobacco If I tried to run 20 the only thing going pop would be my lungs! I do briskly walk the dog twice daily though Yes,
                        Message 11 of 14 , Jun 5, 2009
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Roy, I'm 72; 40 years addicted to tobacco

                          If I tried to run 20 the only thing going pop would be my lungs! I do
                          briskly walk the dog twice daily though

                          Yes, I've no choice but to trade the wont power in for will power. It's
                          coming together - just more slowly than I like

                          dixie
                          -----

                          > Hey Dixie
                          >
                          > I am sure you will....but the best boost for the dopamine and the
                          > beginnings
                          > of the will seem to come with the vital aspect of interval training,
                          > mindless mindfullness I suppose, walk 20 sprint 20 building up, something
                          > goes pop, and then the reward seeking comes back in, booting the
                          > neurohumeral response back to life, and making willpower seem like second
                          > nature again...we spent the last 450 000 years on the move, without it,
                          > apathy seems to creep in.....good luck Mate...
                          >
                          > Roy
                          >
                          > On Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 5:31 PM, <dixie_dean@...> wrote:
                          >
                          <Snip>
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > --
                          > Roy Sugarman PhD
                          > Consultant Clinical Neuropsychologist and Clinical Psychologist
                          > Level 7 Psychology
                          > Suite 1, Level 7
                          > 35 Spring Street
                          > Bondi Junction
                          > NSW 2022
                          > Australia
                          > Tel: +61 (0)2 9371 7347
                          > Mob: +61 (0) 403 289092
                          > Email: roy@...
                          >
                        • Roy Sugarman
                          Hi Hey, I am a born rehabilitationist...sue me!! Its all in the recovery, I worked on an 85 year old who lived to be 92, and never forgave me for it!! So,
                          Message 12 of 14 , Jun 6, 2009
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Hi

                            Hey, I am a born rehabilitationist...sue me!! Its all in the recovery, I worked on an 85 year old who lived to be 92, and never forgave me for it!! So, apart from brisk walking, which is great, hows about walk fast walk slow walk fast...you know, just a bit of resonant frequency breathing and heart rate variability will increase the resilience, whatever you do, Dixie, keep on truckin'.....you never know what is around the corner!
                             
                            Best
                             
                            Roy

                            On Sat, Jun 6, 2009 at 4:31 PM, <dixie_dean@...> wrote:


                            Roy, I'm 72; 40 years addicted to tobacco

                            If I tried to run 20 the only thing going pop would be my lungs! I do
                            briskly walk the dog twice daily though

                            Yes, I've no choice but to trade the wont power in for will power. It's
                            coming together - just more slowly than I like

                            dixie
                            -----



                            > Hey Dixie
                            >
                            > I am sure you will....but the best boost for the dopamine and the
                            > beginnings
                            > of the will seem to come with the vital aspect of interval training,
                            > mindless mindfullness I suppose, walk 20 sprint 20 building up, something
                            > goes pop, and then the reward seeking comes back in, booting the
                            > neurohumeral response back to life, and making willpower seem like second
                            > nature again...we spent the last 450 000 years on the move, without it,
                            > apathy seems to creep in.....good luck Mate...
                            >
                            > Roy
                            >
                            > On Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 5:31 PM, <dixie_dean@...> wrote:
                            >
                            <Snip>
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > --
                            > Roy Sugarman PhD
                            > Consultant Clinical Neuropsychologist and Clinical Psychologist
                            > Level 7 Psychology
                            > Suite 1, Level 7
                            > 35 Spring Street
                            > Bondi Junction
                            > NSW 2022
                            > Australia
                            > Tel: +61 (0)2 9371 7347
                            > Mob: +61 (0) 403 289092
                            > Email: roy@...
                            >




                            --
                            Roy Sugarman PhD
                            Consultant Clinical Neuropsychologist and Clinical Psychologist
                            Level 7 Psychology
                            Suite 1, Level 7
                            35 Spring Street
                            Bondi Junction
                            NSW 2022
                            Australia
                            Tel: +61 (0)2 9371 7347
                            Mob: +61 (0) 403 289092
                            Email: roy@...

                          • dixie_dean@lumison.co.uk
                            Thanks again Roy I ll give it a try Enough of me. I ll be fine; just a matter of time and patience dixie ...
                            Message 13 of 14 , Jun 6, 2009
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Thanks again Roy

                              I'll give it a try

                              Enough of me. I'll be fine; just a matter of time and patience

                              dixie
                              -----

                              > Hi
                              >
                              > Hey, I am a born rehabilitationist...sue me!! Its all in the recovery, I
                              > worked on an 85 year old who lived to be 92, and never forgave me for it!!
                              > So, apart from brisk walking, which is great, hows about walk fast walk
                              > slow
                              > walk fast...you know, just a bit of resonant frequency breathing and heart
                              > rate variability will increase the resilience, whatever you do, Dixie,
                              > keep
                              > on truckin'.....you never know what is around the corner!
                              >
                              > Best
                              >
                              > Roy
                              >
                              <snip>
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