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Databases Refreshes

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  • Montgomerie Steve
    Hi All, We are using PeopleSoft 8.18 Tools and HRMS 8.1. When we do database refreses (ie load new data into tst) we essentially drop all of sysadm s objects
    Message 1 of 11 , Jul 26, 2004
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      Message
      Hi All,
      We are using PeopleSoft 8.18 Tools and HRMS 8.1.
       
      When we do database refreses (ie load new data into tst) we essentially drop all of sysadm's objects
      and then import an Oracle dump file from production. Once this has been completed we go through App Designer
      to update the report node and server node so that the point to test and production. Is there any way to do this programmatically
      through updating the tables in Oracle? Does anyone know what those tables might be?
       
      Thanks
       
      Steve
       
      Steve Montgomerie
      PeopleSoft/Oracle Administrator
      SIEMENS Shared Services, LLC
    • Joan Hsieh
      update sysadm.ps_cdm_dist_node, set the following field to the new value. URL, URI_HOST, URI_PORT, URI_SCHEME, URI_RESOURCE. Also, all the process scheduler
      Message 2 of 11 , Jul 26, 2004
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        update sysadm.ps_cdm_dist_node, set the following field to the new value.
        URL, URI_HOST, URI_PORT, URI_SCHEME, URI_RESOURCE.

        Also, all the process scheduler related tables needs to be truncated.

        psprcsrqst, psprcsque, psprcsrqsttext, psprcsqwstxfer,
        prcsrwstdist,ps_message_log, ps_message_logparm, psprcsrqstfile,
        psprcsrqstmeta, psprcsrqstrng, psprcsrqsttime, ps_prcsqstnotify,
        ps_cdm_list, ps_cdm_auth, ps_cdm_text,ps_cdm_file_list,ps_cdm_transfer,
        ps_cdm_trnfr_rjct, ps_cdm_list_arch


        Joan


        Montgomerie Steve wrote:
        > Hi All,
        > We are using PeopleSoft 8.18 Tools and HRMS 8.1.
        >
        > When we do database refreses (ie load new data into tst) we essentially
        > drop all of sysadm's objects
        > and then import an Oracle dump file from production. Once this has been
        > completed we go through App Designer
        > to update the report node and server node so that the point to test and
        > production. Is there any way to do this programmatically
        > through updating the tables in Oracle? Does anyone know what those
        > tables might be?
        >
        > Thanks
        >
        > Steve
        >
        > *Steve Montgomerie*
        > PeopleSoft/Oracle Administrator
        > *SIEMENS* Shared Services, LLC
        >
        >
        > PeopleSoft for the Oracle DBA will be published by Apress in September.
        > The PeopleSoft DBA Forum is managed by http://www.go-faster.co.uk
        >
        >
        >
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      • ISABELLA CHEN
        here is our script, wish it helps. Isabella Chen ******************** --FTP report node update PS_CDM_DIST_NODE set distnodename = xxx where distnodename =
        Message 3 of 11 , Jul 26, 2004
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          Message
          here is our script, wish it helps.
           
          Isabella Chen
           
          ********************
          --FTP report node
          update PS_CDM_DIST_NODE
          set distnodename = 'xxx'
          where distnodename = ' xxx'
          /
           
          --http report node
          update PS_CDM_DIST_NODE
          set distnodename = 'xxxx'
          where distnodename = 'xxxx'
          /
           
          --report URL address
          update PS_CDM_DIST_NODE
          set url = 'xxxxxx'
          /
           
          --dist. node
          update PS_CDM_DIST_NODE
          set URI_RESOURCE = 'servlets/SchedulerTransfer/xxxx'
          where URI_RESOURCE = 'servlets/SchedulerTransfer/xxxx'
          /
           
          --server defn name, FTP server
          update PS_SERVERDEFN
          set distnodename = 'xxx'
          where distnodename = 'xxx'
          /
           
          --server defn name, HTTP server
          update PS_SERVERDEFN
          set distnodename = 'xxxx'
          where distnodename = 'xxxx'
          /
           
          --server defn name, NT scheduler
          update PS_SERVERDEFN
          set SERVERNAME = 'xxxx'
          where SERVERNAME = 'xxxx'
          /
           
          --server class, NT scheduler server
          update PS_SERVERCLASS
          set SERVERNAME = 'PSNTHT8'
          where SERVERNAME = 'PSNTHS8'
          *********************************

          >>> steve.montgomerie@... 07/26/2004 9:07:17 AM >>>
          Hi All,
          We are using PeopleSoft 8.18 Tools and HRMS 8.1.
           
          When we do database refreses (ie load new data into tst) we essentially drop all of sysadm's objects
          and then import an Oracle dump file from production. Once this has been completed we go through App Designer
          to update the report node and server node so that the point to test and production. Is there any way to do this programmatically
          through updating the tables in Oracle? Does anyone know what those tables might be?
           
          Thanks
           
          Steve
           
          Steve Montgomerie
          PeopleSoft/Oracle Administrator
          SIEMENS Shared Services, LLC


          PeopleSoft for the Oracle DBA will be published by Apress in September.  The PeopleSoft DBA Forum is managed by http://www.go-faster.co.uk.



        • R P
          Hi, I do not know what the tables are off hand, but you should be able to trace your session before you enter thru the web and find out that information.
          Message 4 of 11 , Jul 26, 2004
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            Hi,
             
            I do not know what the tables are off hand, but you should be able to trace your session before you enter thru the web and find out that information.
             
            Thanks

            Montgomerie Steve <steve.montgomerie@...> wrote:
            Hi All,
            We are using PeopleSoft 8.18 Tools and HRMS 8.1.
             
            When we do database refreses (ie load new data into tst) we essentially drop all of sysadm's objects
            and then import an Oracle dump file from production. Once this has been completed we go through App Designer
            to update the report node and server node so that the point to test and production. Is there any way to do this programmatically
            through updating the tables in Oracle? Does anyone know what those tables might be?
             
            Thanks
             
            Steve
             
            Steve Montgomerie
            PeopleSoft/Oracle Administrator
            SIEMENS Shared Services, LLC


            PeopleSoft for the Oracle DBA will be published by Apress in September.  The PeopleSoft DBA Forum is managed by http://www.go-faster.co.uk.




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          • David Kurtz
            MessageThere is no reason why you couldn t update these settings with SQL. You could capture the SQL from a PeopleTools trace. (Since I wrote this I have seen
            Message 5 of 11 , Jul 26, 2004
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              Message
              There is no reason why you couldn't update these settings with SQL.  You could capture the SQL from a PeopleTools trace.
              For example the distribution node name is held on PS_SERVERDEFN, the definition of the distribution node is on PS_CDM_DIST_NODE.
              If you are updating any table with a column called VERSION, the you will also have to think about the PeopleTools physical cache files.
               
              Two options
              i) You will need to completely clear the PeopleTools physical caches on the application server, process scheduler (for AE) and clients.
               
              If you issue
              UPDATE PSSTATUS SET LASTREFRESHDTTM = SYSDATE;
              then the caches should be cleared automatically when a PeopleSoft process next references them
               
              There will be a period of poor performance while the physical caches are then rebuilt.
               
               
               
              ii) you have to update the correct version number yourself on both PSLOCK and PSSTATUS
              If you change PS_SERVERDEFN then you need to do something like this
               
              UPDATE PS_VERSION
              SET VERSION = VERSION + 1
              WHERE OBJECTTYPE = 'PPC'; --I think this is the object type for the process scheduler, but check in the PeopleTools trace
               
              UPDATE PS_LOCK
              SET VERSION = VERSION + 1
              WHERE OBJECTTYPE = 'PPC';
               
              UPDATE PS_VERSION
              SET
              ,    DISTNODENAME = ....
              ,    VERSION = (SELECT VERSION FROM PSLOCK WHERE OBJECTTYPE = 'PPC')
              ;

              regards
              _________________________
              David Kurtz
              Go-Faster Consultancy Ltd.
              tel: +44 (0)7771 760660
              fax: +44 (0)7092 348865
              mailto:david.kurtz@...
              web: www.go-faster.co.uk
              PeopleSoft DBA Forum: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/psftdba

              -----Original Message-----
              From: Montgomerie Steve [mailto:steve.montgomerie@...]
              Sent: 26 July 2004 14:07
              To: 'psftdba@yahoogroups.com'
              Subject: PeopleSoft DBA Forum Databases Refreshes

              Hi All,
              We are using PeopleSoft 8.18 Tools and HRMS 8.1.
               
              When we do database refreses (ie load new data into tst) we essentially drop all of sysadm's objects
              and then import an Oracle dump file from production. Once this has been completed we go through App Designer
              to update the report node and server node so that the point to test and production. Is there any way to do this programmatically
              through updating the tables in Oracle? Does anyone know what those tables might be?
               
              Thanks
               
              Steve
               
              Steve Montgomerie
              PeopleSoft/Oracle Administrator
              SIEMENS Shared Services, LLC


              PeopleSoft for the Oracle DBA will be published by Apress in September.  The PeopleSoft DBA Forum is managed by http://www.go-faster.co.uk.



            • Ken Warren
              MessageSteve, Obvious caveats: amount of data / d.b.a skills available ... but We found refreshes to be much much quicker using the physical method - copying
              Message 6 of 11 , Jul 26, 2004
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                MessageSteve,

                Obvious caveats: amount of data / d.b.a skills available ... but
                We found refreshes to be much much quicker using the physical method -
                copying the datafiles and recreating the controlfile.
                Soon we'll be using RMAN to do this part too.

                Ken.
                -----Original Message-----
                From: Montgomerie Steve [mailto:steve.montgomerie@...]
                Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 2:07 PM
                To: 'psftdba@yahoogroups.com'
                Subject: PeopleSoft DBA Forum Databases Refreshes


                Hi All,
                We are using PeopleSoft 8.18 Tools and HRMS 8.1.

                When we do database refreses (ie load new data into tst) we essentially
                drop all of sysadm's objects
                and then import an Oracle dump file from production. Once this has been
                completed we go through App Designer
                to update the report node and server node so that the point to test and
                production. Is there any way to do this programmatically
                through updating the tables in Oracle? Does anyone know what those
                tables might be?

                Thanks

                Steve

                Steve Montgomerie
                PeopleSoft/Oracle Administrator
                SIEMENS Shared Services, LLC



                PeopleSoft for the Oracle DBA will be published by Apress in September.
                The PeopleSoft DBA Forum is managed by http://www.go-faster.co.uk



                Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                ADVERTISEMENT





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                Service.
              • Carol Dacko
                Steve, Like Ken, we clone the database by using a backup of production data, recreate the controlfile, update the global_name, update the psdbowner table, and
                Message 7 of 11 , Jul 27, 2004
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                  Steve,
                  Like Ken, we clone the database by using a backup of production data,
                  recreate the controlfile, update the global_name, update the
                  psdbowner table, and drop all the production database links. Our
                  Application Infrastructure Group takes care of the other PeopleSoft
                  table that need to be updated, our Application Security folks take
                  care of any changes to PeopleSoft security that needs to be done.

                  Hope this helps!
                  Carol Dacko
                  Sr. Oracle DBA
                  University of Michigan


                  On Mon, 26 Jul 2004, Ken Warren wrote:

                  > MessageSteve,
                  >
                  > Obvious caveats: amount of data / d.b.a skills available ... but
                  > We found refreshes to be much much quicker using the physical method -
                  > copying the datafiles and recreating the controlfile.
                  > Soon we'll be using RMAN to do this part too.
                  >
                  > Ken.
                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: Montgomerie Steve [mailto:steve.montgomerie@...]
                  > Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 2:07 PM
                  > To: 'psftdba@yahoogroups.com'
                  > Subject: PeopleSoft DBA Forum Databases Refreshes
                  >
                  >
                  > Hi All,
                  > We are using PeopleSoft 8.18 Tools and HRMS 8.1.
                  >
                  > When we do database refreses (ie load new data into tst) we essentially
                  > drop all of sysadm's objects
                  > and then import an Oracle dump file from production. Once this has been
                  > completed we go through App Designer
                  > to update the report node and server node so that the point to test and
                  > production. Is there any way to do this programmatically
                  > through updating the tables in Oracle? Does anyone know what those
                  > tables might be?
                  >
                  > Thanks
                  >
                  > Steve
                  >
                  > Steve Montgomerie
                  > PeopleSoft/Oracle Administrator
                  > SIEMENS Shared Services, LLC
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > PeopleSoft for the Oracle DBA will be published by Apress in September.
                  > The PeopleSoft DBA Forum is managed by http://www.go-faster.co.uk
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                  > ADVERTISEMENT
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/psftdba/
                  >
                  > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                  > psftdba-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  >
                  > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                  > Service.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • Goulet, Dick
                  We re making use of EMC Business Continuance Volumes (BCV). The entire process is scripted, with error checking, and runs very happily in
                  Message 8 of 11 , Jul 27, 2004
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                    We're making use of EMC Business Continuance Volumes (BCV). The entire process is scripted, with error checking, and runs very happily in < 30 minutes lights out. We do need to do some data file renames, rebuild the control file, change global_name, and a bunch more stuff. We're also exporting the security stuff before and loading it back in afterwards so the entire process is automatic.

                    Dick Goulet
                    Senior Oracle DBA
                    Oracle Certified 8i DBA

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: Carol Dacko [mailto:cdacko@...]
                    Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2004 9:27 AM
                    To: psftdba@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: RE: PeopleSoft DBA Forum Databases Refreshes


                    Steve,
                    Like Ken, we clone the database by using a backup of production data,
                    recreate the controlfile, update the global_name, update the
                    psdbowner table, and drop all the production database links. Our
                    Application Infrastructure Group takes care of the other PeopleSoft
                    table that need to be updated, our Application Security folks take
                    care of any changes to PeopleSoft security that needs to be done.

                    Hope this helps!
                    Carol Dacko
                    Sr. Oracle DBA
                    University of Michigan


                    On Mon, 26 Jul 2004, Ken Warren wrote:

                    > MessageSteve,
                    >
                    > Obvious caveats: amount of data / d.b.a skills available ... but
                    > We found refreshes to be much much quicker using the physical method -
                    > copying the datafiles and recreating the controlfile.
                    > Soon we'll be using RMAN to do this part too.
                    >
                    > Ken.
                    > -----Original Message-----
                    > From: Montgomerie Steve [mailto:steve.montgomerie@...]
                    > Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 2:07 PM
                    > To: 'psftdba@yahoogroups.com'
                    > Subject: PeopleSoft DBA Forum Databases Refreshes
                    >
                    >
                    > Hi All,
                    > We are using PeopleSoft 8.18 Tools and HRMS 8.1.
                    >
                    > When we do database refreses (ie load new data into tst) we essentially
                    > drop all of sysadm's objects
                    > and then import an Oracle dump file from production. Once this has been
                    > completed we go through App Designer
                    > to update the report node and server node so that the point to test and
                    > production. Is there any way to do this programmatically
                    > through updating the tables in Oracle? Does anyone know what those
                    > tables might be?
                    >
                    > Thanks
                    >
                    > Steve
                    >
                    > Steve Montgomerie
                    > PeopleSoft/Oracle Administrator
                    > SIEMENS Shared Services, LLC
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > PeopleSoft for the Oracle DBA will be published by Apress in September.
                    > The PeopleSoft DBA Forum is managed by http://www.go-faster.co.uk
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                    > ADVERTISEMENT
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/psftdba/
                    >
                    > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                    > psftdba-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    >
                    > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                    > Service.
                    >
                    >
                    >




                    PeopleSoft for the Oracle DBA will be published by Apress in September. The PeopleSoft DBA Forum is managed by http://www.go-faster.co.uk

                    Yahoo! Groups Links
                  • James Blanding
                    We have also begun using EMC Timefinder for cloning certain environments. I m a bit jealous of your timeframe; it normally takes one to two hours for our
                    Message 9 of 11 , Jul 27, 2004
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                      We have also begun using EMC Timefinder for cloning certain
                      environments. I'm a bit jealous of your timeframe; it normally takes
                      one to two hours for our scripted process to complete. But I guess
                      that's a lot better than the old method of several hours to drop
                      SYSADM followed by several more to import from a giant dump file.

                      --James

                      --- In psftdba@yahoogroups.com, "Goulet, Dick" <dgoulet@v...> wrote:
                      > We're making use of EMC Business Continuance Volumes (BCV). The
                      entire process is scripted, with error checking, and runs very happily
                      in < 30 minutes lights out. We do need to do some data file renames,
                      rebuild the control file, change global_name, and a bunch more stuff.
                      We're also exporting the security stuff before and loading it back in
                      afterwards so the entire process is automatic.
                      >
                      > Dick Goulet
                      > Senior Oracle DBA
                      > Oracle Certified 8i DBA
                      >
                      > -----Original Message-----
                      > From: Carol Dacko [mailto:cdacko@u...]
                      > Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2004 9:27 AM
                      > To: psftdba@yahoogroups.com
                      > Subject: RE: PeopleSoft DBA Forum Databases Refreshes
                      >
                      >
                      > Steve,
                      > Like Ken, we clone the database by using a backup of production
                      data,
                      > recreate the controlfile, update the global_name, update the
                      > psdbowner table, and drop all the production database links. Our
                      > Application Infrastructure Group takes care of the other PeopleSoft
                      > table that need to be updated, our Application Security folks take
                      > care of any changes to PeopleSoft security that needs to be done.
                      >
                      > Hope this helps!
                      > Carol Dacko
                      > Sr. Oracle DBA
                      > University of Michigan
                      >
                      >
                      > On Mon, 26 Jul 2004, Ken Warren wrote:
                      [...]
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > PeopleSoft for the Oracle DBA will be published by Apress in
                      September. The PeopleSoft DBA Forum is managed by
                      http://www.go-faster.co.uk
                      >
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    • Goulet, Dick
                      Humm, Yes the time needed does depend, on whether you have to do a full establish or an incremental. The former does take a good two hours at best. BTW: we
                      Message 10 of 11 , Jul 27, 2004
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                        Humm, Yes the time needed does depend, on whether you have to do a full establish or an incremental. The former does take a good two hours at best. BTW: we do still use the export/import method for development due to a lack of BCV devices. But by doing a little scripting it runs just about lights out, over a weekend.

                        Dick Goulet
                        Senior Oracle DBA
                        Oracle Certified 8i DBA

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: James Blanding [mailto:stoneandkobi@...]
                        Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2004 10:32 AM
                        To: psftdba@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: PeopleSoft DBA Forum Databases Refreshes


                        We have also begun using EMC Timefinder for cloning certain
                        environments. I'm a bit jealous of your timeframe; it normally takes
                        one to two hours for our scripted process to complete. But I guess
                        that's a lot better than the old method of several hours to drop
                        SYSADM followed by several more to import from a giant dump file.

                        --James

                        --- In psftdba@yahoogroups.com, "Goulet, Dick" <dgoulet@v...> wrote:
                        > We're making use of EMC Business Continuance Volumes (BCV). The
                        entire process is scripted, with error checking, and runs very happily
                        in < 30 minutes lights out. We do need to do some data file renames,
                        rebuild the control file, change global_name, and a bunch more stuff.
                        We're also exporting the security stuff before and loading it back in
                        afterwards so the entire process is automatic.
                        >
                        > Dick Goulet
                        > Senior Oracle DBA
                        > Oracle Certified 8i DBA
                        >
                        > -----Original Message-----
                        > From: Carol Dacko [mailto:cdacko@u...]
                        > Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2004 9:27 AM
                        > To: psftdba@yahoogroups.com
                        > Subject: RE: PeopleSoft DBA Forum Databases Refreshes
                        >
                        >
                        > Steve,
                        > Like Ken, we clone the database by using a backup of production
                        data,
                        > recreate the controlfile, update the global_name, update the
                        > psdbowner table, and drop all the production database links. Our
                        > Application Infrastructure Group takes care of the other PeopleSoft
                        > table that need to be updated, our Application Security folks take
                        > care of any changes to PeopleSoft security that needs to be done.
                        >
                        > Hope this helps!
                        > Carol Dacko
                        > Sr. Oracle DBA
                        > University of Michigan
                        >
                        >
                        > On Mon, 26 Jul 2004, Ken Warren wrote:
                        [...]
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > PeopleSoft for the Oracle DBA will be published by Apress in
                        September. The PeopleSoft DBA Forum is managed by
                        http://www.go-faster.co.uk
                        >
                        > Yahoo! Groups Links





                        PeopleSoft for the Oracle DBA will be published by Apress in September. The PeopleSoft DBA Forum is managed by http://www.go-faster.co.uk

                        Yahoo! Groups Links
                      • Steve
                        Thank you all for some very useful suggestions. My goal if possible is to have a lights out refresh process. As background we do refreshes by dropping sysadm
                        Message 11 of 11 , Jul 28, 2004
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                          Thank you all for some very useful suggestions. My goal if possible
                          is to have a lights out refresh process.

                          As background we do refreshes by dropping sysadm and importing
                          objects. Yeah I could physically recreate everything but in our case
                          we only refresh every month or so and timing is not so of the
                          essence. The import used to take 4 hours but I busted up the export
                          in 10 files, run the import in parallel and have it down to 1hr 5min
                          which again is really moot for me as a refresh over the weekend and
                          not so often. Lots of different ways to skin this cat.

                          Updating the report and server nodes was one of my manual
                          intervention points that I was trying to eliminate and thanks for the
                          great feedback. The other intervention point for me concerns
                          projects. Developers have read only access to test here, the business
                          analysts do all the testing. So , the admins migrate all the
                          projects. During a db refresh we have to export all of the projects
                          and then cony from file/build again after the refresh.

                          Is is possible to script the exporting and then subsequent copy from
                          file/build of projects or am I just trying to over engineer something
                          here that is not practical.

                          Many thanks

                          Steve


                          --- In psftdba@yahoogroups.com, "Ken Warren" <ken.warren@U...> wrote:
                          > MessageSteve,
                          >
                          > Obvious caveats: amount of data / d.b.a skills available ... but
                          > We found refreshes to be much much quicker using the physical
                          method -
                          > copying the datafiles and recreating the controlfile.
                          > Soon we'll be using RMAN to do this part too.
                          >
                          > Ken.
                          > -----Original Message-----
                          > From: Montgomerie Steve [mailto:steve.montgomerie@s...]
                          > Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 2:07 PM
                          > To: 'psftdba@yahoogroups.com'
                          > Subject: PeopleSoft DBA Forum Databases Refreshes
                          >
                          >
                          > Hi All,
                          > We are using PeopleSoft 8.18 Tools and HRMS 8.1.
                          >
                          > When we do database refreses (ie load new data into tst) we
                          essentially
                          > drop all of sysadm's objects
                          > and then import an Oracle dump file from production. Once this
                          has been
                          > completed we go through App Designer
                          > to update the report node and server node so that the point to
                          test and
                          > production. Is there any way to do this programmatically
                          > through updating the tables in Oracle? Does anyone know what those
                          > tables might be?
                          >
                          > Thanks
                          >
                          > Steve
                          >
                          > Steve Montgomerie
                          > PeopleSoft/Oracle Administrator
                          > SIEMENS Shared Services, LLC
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > PeopleSoft for the Oracle DBA will be published by Apress in
                          September.
                          > The PeopleSoft DBA Forum is managed by http://www.go-faster.co.uk
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                          > ADVERTISEMENT
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > --------------------------------------------------------------------
                          ----------
                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >
                          > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
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