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Trip Report: Corno Grande & Monte Camicia, Italy

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  • James Barlow
    Trip Report: Corno Grande & Monte Camicia, Italy - 31 Oct 2013 with Dave Schultz   It has been quite a while since I was able to touch land on my nearly
    Message 1 of 12 , Nov 10, 2013
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      Trip Report: Corno Grande & Monte Camicia, Italy - 31 Oct 2013 with Dave Schultz
       
      It has been quite a while since I was able to touch land on my nearly around-the-world cruise, courtesy of the Navy.  Our last port call was Bahrain in August – devoid of anything worth bagging, except the country high point, which I successfully bagged.  After sitting in the Red Sea for 2 months, we were finally through the Suez Canal and into better water (and fresher food).  The ship made a beeline for Italy, dropped anchor in Naples, and we were finally free, approximately 80 days since our last bit of land.  Italy was hands-down the best port call of the entire deployment.  To rank them in enjoyment order: 1) Italy, 2) Thailand, 3) Bahrain, 4) South Korea (only because I had just 1 day there - otherwise better than Bahrain), and the worst was 5) Dubai – no peaks, expensive, and nothing fun to do.  We may or may not have some good ones coming up, but we can only talk about where we have been, not where we are going…
      Corno Grande (P5k)
      Our first peakbagging objective was getting out of Naples, armpit of Italy, and making our way up to Corno Grande, P5k, and 6th most prominent peak in “Core Europe” as defined by peakbagger and the cool Europe Ultras map from peaklist.  We made our way up to Assergi after dinner in Civitella Roveto at a great restaurant. The menu was only in Italian, and the place was pretty full of Italians - I pointed at something and when it came to the table, it was awesome. With the over-processed slop they pass off as food on the ship, it was the best meal I have had since we left Bahrain in August. Once we left Assergi, we made slow progress up into the highlands before finding a place to sleep off of the road a little bit. It was refreshing to sleep under the stars for the first time in over 9 months.

      Our morning started in the fog as we arrived at the ski area that serves as the trailhead to Corno Grande. We got an alpine start, before sunrise, as our plans for the day included 2 different peaks in the area, and we were not sure how difficult Corno Grande would be. Just before the saddle NE of Cima 2422, the sun rose and we emerged from the fog below. After following the trail to the minor saddle due south of the summit at the base of the Direttissima Alpinistica route, we began following the green paint up the Direttissima Alpinistica route. The paint markings took the route-finding challenge out of the route, but I guess that this is how they do it here. From my memory of hikes in Switzerland and Germany, the trails and routes are well-marked. No different than duck-hunting back in the USA. The route was much easier than we had thought it was going to be, and we were on the summit 1 hr and 40 min after we left the trailhead. I could definitely feel the altitude during this hike after living at sea level since late March. We spent 45 minutes on the summit just enjoying the view as the fog cleared in the basin to the SW and we took plenty of summit pictures.

      The hike down was pleasant. We took the standard west ridge down, and saw 2 different groups on the ascent during our descent. We saw some small deer/ibex creatures as we descended into the basin SW of the peak. I got a number of good pictures of them. When we arrived back at the saddle, we split SW towards Cima 2422, mainly to enjoy the views from there and take a different route down. Upon arrival at the trailhead/ski area, we refilled our water bottles and prepared to move to the trailhead for Monte Camicia.
      Monte Camicia (P2k)
      Monte Camicia is a worthy hiking objective, and a P2k as well.  It’s close proximity to Corno Grande and easy trail to the summit make it a fine addition to a Corno Grande ascent day.
      Following our successful ascent of Corno Grande, we moved over to the trailhead for Monte Camicia to bag our second prominence peak of the day. While Corno Grande is an ultra, Monte Camicia squeeks by as a P2k. Our intent was to take the route that would give us the best views of the impressive north face.
      The hike started in a pine forest in the sun as we moved due north to the main east ridge of the peak. Right as we crested the ridge, clouds blew in and ruined the view of the north face that we had hoped for. We went right over Monte Tremoggia, complete with a summit cross, without realizing that it was a distinct summit until logging into peakbagger. It has very little prominence, I would estimate 20-30 meters. Just after descending from Monte Tremoggia, we ran into a solo hiker headed down from the summit of Monte Camicia. The trail then merged with the main trail up from the trailhead, and we made our way to the summit. The final section of trail is not that great, loose and steep. The views from the top were blocked in 3 directions by clouds, but the view back towards the trailhead was clear. After just a few minutes on top, we headed back down the more direct trail.  Naturally, as we arrived at the trailhead, the clouds blew away and we were able to look back at the sunny summit.
      The rest of the non-peakbagging story
      Following this hike, we headed through Fonte Cerreto for a nice late lunch before making our way back south to the Naples area. Our goal for the next day would be rock climbing near Punta Campanella or Lettere. The road to the end of Punta Campanella was surely not indented for use by a Fiat 500, as the road was so narrow that the tires barely fit on the pavement, with a drop to the right and a wall to the left.  We managed to find a safe turn around spot that required a 15-point turn to get the car pointed the right direction with Dave directing every inch of movement.  Below the turn-around spot, the road was un-driveable, so we slept right there.  We jogged to the end of the road and found no vehicles, buildings, or people, so we thought we were safe parking right there.  Naturally, we were awakened at 5:30am by a fisherman on a Vespa trying to get past.  He spoke no English.  We moved the car to let him pass and got going for the day, heading down to Punta Campanella with all of our rock gear.  We ended up at Lettere after failing to find the correct crags at Punta Campanella after an hour of searching. We had a great day of cragging at Lettere (5-10 min approach hike from parking), climbing routes from 5a (YDS 5.7) up to 6a (YDS 5.10a). At Lettere, the routes were well marked, and in some cases, very over-protected with bolts.  I had 2 pretty solid sport lead climbs of 5a (YDS 5.7) & 5c (YDS 5.9) and toproped a 6a (YDS 5.10a) and 5b (YDS 5.8) that Dave led.  No trad climbing, but sport climbing is better than no climbing!  I am quite thankful that I brought my harness and shoes along on the cruise and even more thankful that Dave brought his rack and rope!
      My partner and I had differing climbing goals for this port call – mine was peakbagging and his was technical climbing.  I love both and he was game for the peakbagging if it involved an alpine climb.  While Corno Grande was at the very easy end of alpine climbing, he was happy with it.  Our compromise was basically that I get Thursday for my peakbagging and he gets Friday for his rock climbing.  In the end, it worked out beautifully and we both enjoyed both days out.  He had to go back to the ship, and I had friends to meet in Rome for the next 2 days of tourist sight-seeing in Rome, so we split ways in Naples and I took the bullet train to Rome, reaching speeds of 310 km/h, making the entire trip in 1 hr 10 min.  With the Vatican Gardens tour (Vatican HP) already under my belt from my Roman visit on a Euro-trip 7 years prior, I only had non-peakbagging objectives for Rome, and proceeded to enjoy the Forum, Coliseum, Sistine Chapel, and other highlights, some of which were repeats, but enjoyable all the same.  On the final day in Rome, one of my fellow Medical Officers, Laura, and I jogged up Monte Mario from our hostel near Termini, passing the Spanish Steps and Piazza del Popolo enroute and then continuing from Monte Mario to St Peter’s Bascilica.  All of these normally crowded spots were devoid of human life between 6am, when we started, and 7:30 am, when we ended our run at St Peter’s Bascilica and jogged back to the subway to freshen up and start the day of sightseeing.  Monte Mario is the highest hill in Rome, and notably not one of the 7 hills of Rome.  None of the 7 hills of Rome are in peakbagger, but they have very low prominence factors and have been heavily altered by man.  I think I have been up 3 or 4; Two for sure, though with a little research I could figure that out if I felt like it.  Naturally, the food was incredible every night and on our next-to-last night, we had possibly the best Italian meal I have ever eaten at a local place recommended by some Italians we met, well out of the way of tourist areas.
      Geek stuff:
      Corno Grande stats:
      Vertical gain: 2,999 ft / 914 m
      Mileage: 6.3 mi / 10.14 km
      Moving time: 2 hrs 37 min
      Avg moving pace: 2.4 mph / 3.86 km/h
      Monte Camicia stats:
      Vertical gain: 3,245 ft / 989m
      Mileage: 5.4 mi / 8.7 km
      Moving time: 2 hrs 40 min
      Avg moving pace: 2.0 mph / 3.22 km/h
      Stats for the whole day:
      Vertical gain: 6,244 ft / 1,903m
      Mileage: 11.7 mi / 18.84 km
      Ciao!
      James Barlow
      World P2k #’s 124 & 125 / World P5k #20
       
       
    • Adam Helman
      Hello Jim, Great report - thanks for sharing it. My partner and I had differing climbing goals for this port call – mine was peakbagging and his was
      Message 2 of 12 , Nov 10, 2013
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           Hello Jim,
         
               Great report - thanks for sharing it.
         
        "My partner and I had differing climbing goals for this port call – mine was peakbagging and his was technical climbing." 
         
         How did you learn of a rock climber among the crew members?
         Or did you know of Dave Schultz well beforehand?
         
         Are you on an aircraft carrier or a smaller vessel?
         
         Please describe one of your Italian meals while on-shore!
         
                 Bye bye,
                               Adam Helman
         
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 4:02 AM
        Subject: [prominence] Trip Report: Corno Grande & Monte Camicia, Italy

         


        Trip Report: Corno Grande & Monte Camicia, Italy - 31 Oct 2013 with Dave Schultz
      • Roy Schweiker
        ... 6,000 vertical feet in a day is a healthy effort although many of us here have done it, but it seems extra impressive for someone who has lived on a ship
        Message 3 of 12 , Nov 12, 2013
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          >Vertical gain: 2,999 ft / 914 m
          >Vertical gain: 3,245 ft / 989m

          6,000 vertical feet in a day is a healthy effort although many of us here
          have done it, but it seems extra impressive for someone who has lived on
          a ship for months

          Do you have a gym with stairstepper? Or do they let you run up and down
          ladders from the bilge to the signal bridge?
        • Thomas Colson
          Has anyone had any luck converting USGS Digital Elevation Models for use in WinProm? Seems it was written back in the day when the USGS was still using
          Message 4 of 12 , Nov 13, 2013
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            Has anyone had any luck converting USGS Digital Elevation Models for use in WinProm? Seems it was written back in the day when the USGS was still using SDTS/DEM/BIL formats. The national map only delivers ESRI Grid, Float, and IMG now. I've tried converting using GDAL, but no luck there either.
          • Adam Helman
            Edward Earl, Winprom developer, has a program called Winelev that allows multiple input file formats to be converted into the *.elv files needed as Winprom
            Message 5 of 12 , Nov 13, 2013
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                  Edward Earl, Winprom developer, has a program called "Winelev" that allows multiple input file formats
              to be converted into the *.elv files needed as Winprom input.
               
                  I have used it numerous times for converting DEM files to *.elv and then performing Winprom analyses.
              Surely Edward will contact you by private message as he's a member of this forum.
               
                  Adam Helman
               
               
              ----- Original Message -----
              Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2013 12:07 PM
              Subject: [prominence] How to convert DEM to use in WINPROM?

               

              Has anyone had any luck converting USGS Digital Elevation Models for use in WinProm? Seems it was written back in the day when the USGS was still using SDTS/DEM/BIL formats. The national map only delivers ESRI Grid, Float, and IMG now. I've tried converting using GDAL, but no luck there either.

            • Thomas Colson
              I ve been trying WinElev. THe problem is getting the native USGS formate (Arc Grid, Tiff, or Float) into any of the formats that WinElev will read. No luck
              Message 6 of 12 , Nov 13, 2013
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                I've been trying WinElev. THe problem is getting the native USGS formate (Arc Grid, Tiff, or Float) into any of the formats that WinElev will read. No luck with GDAL or ArcGIS. Erdas doesn't write to USGS DEM format either.
                 

                To: prominence@yahoogroups.com
                From: helman@...
                Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2013 12:39:36 -0800
                Subject: [prominence] How to convert DEM to use in WINPROM?

                 
                    Edward Earl, Winprom developer, has a program called "Winelev" that allows multiple input file formats
                to be converted into the *.elv files needed as Winprom input.
                 
                    I have used it numerous times for converting DEM files to *.elv and then performing Winprom analyses.
                Surely Edward will contact you by private message as he's a member of this forum.
                 
                    Adam Helman
                 
                 
                ----- Original Message -----
                Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2013 12:07 PM
                Subject: [prominence] How to convert DEM to use in WINPROM?

                 

                Has anyone had any luck converting USGS Digital Elevation Models for use in WinProm? Seems it was written back in the day when the USGS was still using SDTS/DEM/BIL formats. The national map only delivers ESRI Grid, Float, and IMG now. I've tried converting using GDAL, but no luck there either.



              • Thomas Colson
                Unfortunately, the USGS NED is only delivered in ArcGRID, IMG, or GeoTiff format via the National Map Viewer. The web sites described in the help, NED and
                Message 7 of 12 , Nov 14, 2013
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                  Unfortunately, the USGS NED is only delivered in ArcGRID, IMG, or GeoTiff format via the National Map Viewer. The web sites described in the help, NED and Seamless, are no longer operating.

                  SRTM or GDEM does not have the resolution I'm looking for. I'm in possession of Lidar Elevation data, and desire to migrate this highly accurate elevation data into Winprom. Yes, the difference in elevation between SRTM and Lidar is that relevant, there is a lot of "attention" paid to which peak is higher than another and by how much. I'm hoping to supplement WInprom results with survey-grade GPS measurements on some of these peaks, a process we've already started. NOAA/NGS is certifying these measurements through OPUS/CORS.
                   
                  GDAL is a tool the supposedly will translate Arc GRID/Float to .BIL/STDS but it's failing. Arc Grid/Float is a propietery format used by ArcGIS which is not compatible with any open source tool, which makes it a mystery as to why the USGS would publish data in a format that only favors a vendor and not the scientific community.
                   
                  > From: esquared@...
                  > To: tpcolson@...
                  > CC: helman@...
                  > Subject: Re: [prominence] How to convert DEM to use in WINPROM?
                  > Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2013 21:25:43 -0800
                  >
                  > (TC)
                  > Has anyone had any luck converting USGS Digital Elevation Models for use in
                  > WinProm? Seems it was written back in the day when the USGS was still using
                  > SDTS/DEM/BIL formats. The national map only delivers ESRI Grid, Float, and IMG
                  > now. I've tried converting using GDAL, but no luck there either.
                  >
                  > (AH)
                  > Edward Earl, Winprom developer, has a program called "Winelev" that allows
                  > multiple input file formats
                  > to be converted into the *.elv files needed as Winprom input.
                  >
                  > I have used it numerous times for converting DEM files to *.elv and then
                  > performing Winprom analyses.
                  > Surely Edward will contact you by private message as he's a member of this
                  > forum.
                  >
                  > (TC)
                  > I've been trying WinElev. The problem is getting the native USGS format (Arc
                  > Grid, Tiff, or Float) into any of the formats that WinElev will read. No luck
                  > with GDAL or ArcGIS. Erdas doesn't write to USGS DEM format either.
                  >
                  > (EE)
                  > Winelev supports the formats in the radio button group box on the left side of
                  > its window. The only one of those that you mention is USGS DEM (like you say, a
                  > very outdated format, though CDED also still uses this format). It does not
                  > support Grid, Float, IMG, or GDAL (in fact I've never heard of any of those).
                  > The one I use the most is SRTM; you can get that from
                  > http://dds.cr.usgs.gov/srtm/. If you can get NED, the procedure for downloading
                  > it and getting it organized is convoluted but is explained in detail in the help
                  > file (Just press the "Help" button on Winelev to see it.) Winprom uses a very
                  > outdated version of help that MS no longer supports; if you can't read it for
                  > this reason, let me know and I'll provide the RTF source.
                  >
                  >
                  > Edward "7.389056099" Earl
                  > esquared@...
                  > http://home.earthlink.net/~esquared/
                  >
                • gabriel.couet
                  I know I ran in an issue with WinProm in the past, in that it only supports integers for grid spacing. So, for instance, I had to resample ALL Canadian 1:50k
                  Message 8 of 12 , Nov 14, 2013
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                    I know I ran in an issue with WinProm in the past, in that it only supports integers for grid spacing. So, for instance, I had to resample ALL Canadian 1:50k DEM quads to a 1 arc second grid size before I could do anything with them in WinProm. They came by default at a 0.75 arc second grid size and would refuse to process in WinElev.


                    I'm sure Edward can confirm if this will be an issue for you or not, but if you have to resample your LIDAR data, it might not be as useful then...


                    Gabriel C.



                    ---In prominence@yahoogroups.com, <tpcolson@...> wrote:

                    Unfortunately, the USGS NED is only delivered in ArcGRID, IMG, or GeoTiff format via the National Map Viewer. The web sites described in the help, NED and Seamless, are no longer operating.

                    SRTM or GDEM does not have the resolution I'm looking for. I'm in possession of Lidar Elevation data, and desire to migrate this highly accurate elevation data into Winprom. Yes, the difference in elevation between SRTM and Lidar is that relevant, there is a lot of "attention" paid to which peak is higher than another and by how much. I'm hoping to supplement WInprom results with survey-grade GPS measurements on some of these peaks, a process we've already started. NOAA/NGS is certifying these measurements through OPUS/CORS.
                     
                    GDAL is a tool the supposedly will translate Arc GRID/Float to .BIL/STDS but it's failing. Arc Grid/Float is a propietery format used by ArcGIS which is not compatible with any open source tool, which makes it a mystery as to why the USGS would publish data in a format that only favors a vendor and not the scientific community.
                     
                    > From: esquared@...
                    > To: tpcolson@...
                    > CC: helman@...
                    > Subject: Re: [prominence] How to convert DEM to use in WINPROM?
                    > Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2013 21:25:43 -0800
                    >
                    > (TC)
                    > Has anyone had any luck converting USGS Digital Elevation Models for use in
                    > WinProm? Seems it was written back in the day when the USGS was still using
                    > SDTS/DEM/BIL formats. The national map only delivers ESRI Grid, Float, and IMG
                    > now. I've tried converting using GDAL, but no luck there either.
                    >
                    > (AH)
                    > Edward Earl, Winprom developer, has a program called "Winelev" that allows
                    > multiple input file formats
                    > to be converted into the *.elv files needed as Winprom input.
                    >
                    > I have used it numerous times for converting DEM files to *.elv and then
                    > performing Winprom analyses.
                    > Surely Edward will contact you by private message as he's a member of this
                    > forum.
                    >
                    > (TC)
                    > I've been trying WinElev. The problem is getting the native USGS format (Arc
                    > Grid, Tiff, or Float) into any of the formats that WinElev will read. No luck
                    > with GDAL or ArcGIS. Erdas doesn't write to USGS DEM format either.
                    >
                    > (EE)
                    > Winelev supports the formats in the radio button group box on the left side of
                    > its window. The only one of those that you mention is USGS DEM (like you say, a
                    > very outdated format, though CDED also still uses this format). It does not
                    > support Grid, Float, IMG, or GDAL (in fact I've never heard of any of those).
                    > The one I use the most is SRTM; you can get that from
                    > http://dds.cr.usgs.gov/srtm/. If you can get NED, the procedure for downloading
                    > it and getting it organized is convoluted but is explained in detail in the help
                    > file (Just press the "Help" button on Winelev to see it.) Winprom uses a very
                    > outdated version of help that MS no longer supports; if you can't read it for
                    > this reason, let me know and I'll provide the RTF source.
                    >
                    >
                    > Edward "7.389056099" Earl
                    > esquared@...
                    > http://home.earthlink.net/~esquared/
                    >
                  • Edward "7.389056099" Earl
                    Yes, Winprom supports only integer intervals in the number of arc-seconds between grid points. I have visions of writing a vector version of Winprom, which
                    Message 9 of 12 , Nov 14, 2013
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Yes, Winprom supports only integer intervals in the number of arc-seconds
                      between grid points.

                      I have visions of writing a vector version of Winprom, which wouldn't have that
                      limitation.


                      Edward "7.389056099" Earl
                      esquared@...
                      http://home.earthlink.net/~esquared/

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: gabriel.couet@...
                      Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 8:45 PM
                      To: prominence@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: RE: RE: [prominence] How to convert DEM to use in WINPROM?

                      I know I ran in an issue with WinProm in the past, in that it only supports
                      integers for grid spacing. So, for instance, I had to resample ALL Canadian
                      1:50k DEM quads to a 1 arc second grid size before I could do anything with them
                      in WinProm. They came by default at a 0.75 arc second grid size and would refuse
                      to process in WinElev.

                      I'm sure Edward can confirm if this will be an issue for you or not, but if you
                      have to resample your LIDAR data, it might not be as useful then...

                      Gabriel C.

                      ---In prominence@yahoogroups.com, <tpcolson@...> wrote:

                      Unfortunately, the USGS NED is only delivered in ArcGRID, IMG, or GeoTiff format
                      via the National Map Viewer. The web sites described in the help, NED and
                      Seamless, are no longer operating.

                      SRTM or GDEM does not have the resolution I'm looking for. I'm in possession of
                      Lidar Elevation data, and desire to migrate this highly accurate elevation data
                      into Winprom. Yes, the difference in elevation between SRTM and Lidar is that
                      relevant, there is a lot of "attention" paid to which peak is higher than
                      another and by how much. I'm hoping to supplement WInprom results with
                      survey-grade GPS measurements on some of these peaks, a process we've already
                      started. NOAA/NGS is certifying these measurements through OPUS/CORS.

                      GDAL is a tool the supposedly will translate Arc GRID/Float to .BIL/STDS but
                      it's failing. Arc Grid/Float is a propietery format used by ArcGIS which is not
                      compatible with any open source tool, which makes it a mystery as to why the
                      USGS would publish data in a format that only favors a vendor and not the
                      scientific community.


                      > From: esquared@...
                      > To: tpcolson@...
                      > CC: helman@...
                      > Subject: Re: [prominence] How to convert DEM to use in WINPROM?
                      > Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2013 21:25:43 -0800
                      >
                      > (TC)
                      > Has anyone had any luck converting USGS Digital Elevation Models for use in
                      > WinProm? Seems it was written back in the day when the USGS was still using
                      > SDTS/DEM/BIL formats. The national map only delivers ESRI Grid, Float, and IMG
                      > now. I've tried converting using GDAL, but no luck there either.
                      >
                      > (AH)
                      > Edward Earl, Winprom developer, has a program called "Winelev" that allows
                      > multiple input file formats
                      > to be converted into the *.elv files needed as Winprom input.
                      >
                      > I have used it numerous times for converting DEM files to *.elv and then
                      > performing Winprom analyses.
                      > Surely Edward will contact you by private message as he's a member of this
                      > forum.
                      >
                      > (TC)
                      > I've been trying WinElev. The problem is getting the native USGS format (Arc
                      > Grid, Tiff, or Float) into any of the formats that WinElev will read. No luck
                      > with GDAL or ArcGIS. Erdas doesn't write to USGS DEM format either.
                      >
                      > (EE)
                      > Winelev supports the formats in the radio button group box on the left side of
                      > its window. The only one of those that you mention is USGS DEM (like you say,
                      > a
                      > very outdated format, though CDED also still uses this format). It does not
                      > support Grid, Float, IMG, or GDAL (in fact I've never heard of any of those).
                      > The one I use the most is SRTM; you can get that from
                      > http://dds.cr.usgs.gov/srtm/. If you can get NED, the procedure for
                      > downloading
                      > it and getting it organized is convoluted but is explained in detail in the
                      > help
                      > file (Just press the "Help" button on Winelev to see it.) Winprom uses a very
                      > outdated version of help that MS no longer supports; if you can't read it for
                      > this reason, let me know and I'll provide the RTF source.
                      >
                      >
                      > Edward "7.389056099" Earl
                      > esquared@...
                      > http://home.earthlink.net/~esquared/
                    • fossdal
                      i have no problem loading DEM data in winelev and converting it to elev files. but that dos t help me mutch, evry other file type i try to convet to i get a
                      Message 10 of 12 , Nov 15, 2013
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                        i have no problem loading DEM data in winelev and converting it to elev files. but that dos't help me mutch, evry other file type i try to convet to i get a error message saying "The analyzer is not implemented in this shipment of Winelev"


                        so i cant use it for anything but look at hight curvs 



                        ---In prominence@yahoogroups.com, <esquared@...> wrote:

                        Yes, Winprom supports only integer intervals in the number of arc-seconds
                        between grid points.

                        I have visions of writing a vector version of Winprom, which wouldn't have that
                        limitation.


                        Edward "7.389056099" Earl
                        esquared@...
                        http://home.earthlink.net/~esquared/

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: gabriel.couet@...
                        Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 8:45 PM
                        To: prominence@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: RE: RE: [prominence] How to convert DEM to use in WINPROM?

                        I know I ran in an issue with WinProm in the past, in that it only supports
                        integers for grid spacing. So, for instance, I had to resample ALL Canadian
                        1:50k DEM quads to a 1 arc second grid size before I could do anything with them
                        in WinProm. They came by default at a 0.75 arc second grid size and would refuse
                        to process in WinElev.

                        I'm sure Edward can confirm if this will be an issue for you or not, but if you
                        have to resample your LIDAR data, it might not be as useful then...

                        Gabriel C.

                        ---In prominence@yahoogroups.com, <tpcolson@...> wrote:

                        Unfortunately, the USGS NED is only delivered in ArcGRID, IMG, or GeoTiff format
                        via the National Map Viewer. The web sites described in the help, NED and
                        Seamless, are no longer operating.

                        SRTM or GDEM does not have the resolution I'm looking for. I'm in possession of
                        Lidar Elevation data, and desire to migrate this highly accurate elevation data
                        into Winprom. Yes, the difference in elevation between SRTM and Lidar is that
                        relevant, there is a lot of "attention" paid to which peak is higher than
                        another and by how much. I'm hoping to supplement WInprom results with
                        survey-grade GPS measurements on some of these peaks, a process we've already
                        started. NOAA/NGS is certifying these measurements through OPUS/CORS.

                        GDAL is a tool the supposedly will translate Arc GRID/Float to .BIL/STDS but
                        it's failing. Arc Grid/Float is a propietery format used by ArcGIS which is not
                        compatible with any open source tool, which makes it a mystery as to why the
                        USGS would publish data in a format that only favors a vendor and not the
                        scientific community.


                        > From: esquared@...
                        > To: tpcolson@...
                        > CC: helman@...
                        > Subject: Re: [prominence] How to convert DEM to use in WINPROM?
                        > Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2013 21:25:43 -0800
                        >
                        > (TC)
                        > Has anyone had any luck converting USGS Digital Elevation Models for use in
                        > WinProm? Seems it was written back in the day when the USGS was still using
                        > SDTS/DEM/BIL formats. The national map only delivers ESRI Grid, Float, and IMG
                        > now. I've tried converting using GDAL, but no luck there either.
                        >
                        > (AH)
                        > Edward Earl, Winprom developer, has a program called "Winelev" that allows
                        > multiple input file formats
                        > to be converted into the *.elv files needed as Winprom input.
                        >
                        > I have used it numerous times for converting DEM files to *.elv and then
                        > performing Winprom analyses.
                        > Surely Edward will contact you by private message as he's a member of this
                        > forum.
                        >
                        > (TC)
                        > I've been trying WinElev. The problem is getting the native USGS format (Arc
                        > Grid, Tiff, or Float) into any of the formats that WinElev will read. No luck
                        > with GDAL or ArcGIS. Erdas doesn't write to USGS DEM format either.
                        >
                        > (EE)
                        > Winelev supports the formats in the radio button group box on the left side of
                        > its window. The only one of those that you mention is USGS DEM (like you say,
                        > a
                        > very outdated format, though CDED also still uses this format). It does not
                        > support Grid, Float, IMG, or GDAL (in fact I've never heard of any of those).
                        > The one I use the most is SRTM; you can get that from
                        > http://dds.cr.usgs.gov/srtm/. If you can get NED, the procedure for
                        > downloading
                        > it and getting it organized is convoluted but is explained in detail in the
                        > help
                        > file (Just press the "Help" button on Winelev to see it.) Winprom uses a very
                        > outdated version of help that MS no longer supports; if you can't read it for
                        > this reason, let me know and I'll provide the RTF source.
                        >
                        >
                        > Edward "7.389056099" Earl
                        > esquared@...
                        > http://home.earthlink.net/~esquared/
                      • Thomas Colson
                        I m getting closer to something that works. I think the 1 degree box size is tripping me up on the BIL format. USGS publishes some tools (buried on a website
                        Message 11 of 12 , Nov 17, 2013
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                          I'm getting closer to something that works. I think the 1 degree box size is tripping me up on the BIL format. USGS publishes some tools (buried on a website that only runs on Fridays) that convert to BIL.
                           
                           
                          Might I suggest ASCII format? Virtually all GIS packages can read/write ASCII, and the more popular open source packages (GRASS, SAGA) natively handle ASCII. Speaking of SAGA....Winprom would be a GREAT plugin for SAGA! They publish the API (open source), and you can also include R or Python dependencies. Plus, by piggybacking Winprom as a plug in to an open source tool like SAGA opens up code-monkeying to other developers. I'm not a big fan of Grass, as installing it takes a degree in nuclear engineering and running it takes a degree in quantum physics....
                           
                          > From: esquared@...
                          > To: tpcolson@...
                          > CC: gabriel.couet@...
                          > Subject: Re: [prominence] How to convert DEM to use in WINPROM?
                          > Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2013 19:48:39 -0800
                          >
                          > It seems like you may not have any way to convert your data into any of the
                          > formats supported by Winelev. Those are, by and large, the ones shown in the
                          > group of radio buttons in the box on the left side of Winelev's UI.
                          >
                          > I would love to do everything I can to enable you (and anyone else who wants to)
                          > to use Winprom. I can consider supporting new file formats in Winelev. However
                          > it will take time to complete any such project and I've got a lot of stuff on my
                          > personal to-do list.
                          >
                          > My longer term vision is a total rewrite of Winprom in the not too distant
                          > future. For that reason, I've been reluctant to spend much time enhancing the
                          > current Winprom, which hasn't seen any significant enhancement since 2009. The
                          > current Winprom was weathered well, but I have some long term projects in my
                          > eyes that the current Winprom doesn't do very well.
                          >
                          > If you can direct me to sources of information that describe the DEM file
                          > formats most often used in the GIS community, those will be my highest
                          > priorities for any future development. It's possible they would be added to the
                          > current incarnation of Winelev, though I must say more likely have to wait until
                          > a new Winprom comes along. In either case, it won't be very soon; but also in
                          > either case, it will shape the future direction of my prominence research tools.
                          > (ASTER is an example of a format which others have called for but is not now
                          > supported.)
                          >
                          > I'm sorry I can't help you more in the short term. I'd love to be able to get
                          > you going with your LIDAR data. LIDAR is an up-and-coming technology that has a
                          > lot of promise for anyone who needs terrain elevation models. I will do what I
                          > can on whatever time scale I can and I'd love to have your input regarding the
                          > future direction of my projects and tools.
                          >
                          >
                          > Edward "7.389056099" Earl
                          > esquared@...
                          > http://home.earthlink.net/~esquared/
                          >
                          > -----Original Message-----
                          > From: Thomas Colson
                          > Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 5:52 AM
                          > To: prominence@yahoogroups.com
                          > Subject: RE: [prominence] How to convert DEM to use in WINPROM?
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Unfortunately, the USGS NED is only delivered in ArcGRID, IMG, or GeoTiff format
                          > via the National Map Viewer. The web sites described in the help, NED and
                          > Seamless, are no longer operating.
                          >
                          > SRTM or GDEM does not have the resolution I'm looking for. I'm in possession of
                          > Lidar Elevation data, and desire to migrate this highly accurate elevation data
                          > into Winprom. Yes, the difference in elevation between SRTM and Lidar is that
                          > relevant, there is a lot of "attention" paid to which peak is higher than
                          > another and by how much. I'm hoping to supplement WInprom results with
                          > survey-grade GPS measurements on some of these peaks, a process we've already
                          > started. NOAA/NGS is certifying these measurements through OPUS/CORS.
                          >
                          > GDAL is a tool the supposedly will translate Arc GRID/Float to .BIL/STDS but
                          > it's failing. Arc Grid/Float is a propietery format used by ArcGIS which is not
                          > compatible with any open source tool, which makes it a mystery as to why the
                          > USGS would publish data in a format that only favors a vendor and not the
                          > scientific community.
                          >
                          >
                          > > From: esquared@...
                          > > To: tpcolson@...
                          > > CC: helman@...
                          > > Subject: Re: [prominence] How to convert DEM to use in WINPROM?
                          > > Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2013 21:25:43 -0800
                          > >
                          > > (TC)
                          > > Has anyone had any luck converting USGS Digital Elevation Models for use in
                          > > WinProm? Seems it was written back in the day when the USGS was still using
                          > > SDTS/DEM/BIL formats. The national map only delivers ESRI Grid, Float, and IMG
                          > > now. I've tried converting using GDAL, but no luck there either.
                          > >
                          > > (AH)
                          > > Edward Earl, Winprom developer, has a program called "Winelev" that allows
                          > > multiple input file formats
                          > > to be converted into the *.elv files needed as Winprom input.
                          > >
                          > > I have used it numerous times for converting DEM files to *.elv and then
                          > > performing Winprom analyses.
                          > > Surely Edward will contact you by private message as he's a member of this
                          > > forum.
                          > >
                          > > (TC)
                          > > I've been trying WinElev. The problem is getting the native USGS format (Arc
                          > > Grid, Tiff, or Float) into any of the formats that WinElev will read. No luck
                          > > with GDAL or ArcGIS. Erdas doesn't write to USGS DEM format either.
                          > >
                          > > (EE)
                          > > Winelev supports the formats in the radio button group box on the left side of
                          > > its window. The only one of those that you mention is USGS DEM (like you say,
                          > > a
                          > > very outdated format, though CDED also still uses this format). It does not
                          > > support Grid, Float, IMG, or GDAL (in fact I've never heard of any of those).
                          > > The one I use the most is SRTM; you can get that from
                          > > http://dds.cr.usgs.gov/srtm/. If you can get NED, the procedure for
                          > > downloading
                          > > it and getting it organized is convoluted but is explained in detail in the
                          > > help
                          > > file (Just press the "Help" button on Winelev to see it.) Winprom uses a very
                          > > outdated version of help that MS no longer supports; if you can't read it for
                          > > this reason, let me know and I'll provide the RTF source.
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Edward "7.389056099" Earl
                          > > esquared@...
                          > > http://home.earthlink.net/~esquared/
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                        • Edward "7.389056099" Earl
                          ... The old USGS DEM format is ASCII. If you can get it in in ASCII format, it would not be very difficult to hand-modify to be readable by Winelev as USGS
                          Message 12 of 12 , Nov 17, 2013
                          • 0 Attachment
                            > Might I suggest ASCII format? Virtually all GIS packages can read/write ASCII,
                            > and the more popular open source packages (GRASS, SAGA) natively handle ASCII.

                            The old USGS DEM format is ASCII. If you can get it in in ASCII format, it would
                            not be very difficult to hand-modify to be readable by Winelev as USGS DEM. If
                            you had to do it repeatedly, it would not be very difficult to write a band-aid
                            tool that would do that.

                            Edward "7.389056099" Earl
                            esquared@...
                            http://home.earthlink.net/~esquared/
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