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  • Andy Martin
    Andy & Roy discussing the NORTHEAST FIFTY FINEST - ME, VT, NH, NY AND MA list (Andy - the credits at top) ... (Roy) Actually Ron is the one who got it started
    Message 1 of 1 , Sep 3, 2000
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      Andy & Roy discussing the NORTHEAST FIFTY FINEST - ME, VT, NH, NY AND MA list

      (Andy - the credits at top)
      >You got the ball rolling and did most of the work (39 of the
      >peaks are outside NY)

      Actually Ron is the one who got it started - he just didn't have EE's
      list or good NY maps so had to give it up - <because I don't want to get
      blamed for errors in NY list>

      You are right that Ron is a contributor to this work, will credit him.
      Will add Andy Martin __(NY work)__ to take heat (if any) for glitches

      Actually, to date there have been few corrections to any of the
      prominence lists I've "published". This may be due to:

      1. Too much work to catch errors.
      2. David Olson in more interested in the county lists ;)
      3. Not enough hikers.

      As for the other kind of heat, like "why did you leave off peak
      so-and-so from your finest list", I don't think Bob Bolton will
      contact you, as he does not hike in the Northeast (?) ;)

      Then again, with so much hiking done in the Northeast based
      on elevation, you may catch some flack from the "heightists".

      >What exactly is a 3,000 footer ? How many are there ?
      Summit elevation >= 3000', prominence >= 200' - heavily checked list of
      451 in ME NH VT MA, lesser checked list of 770 adding NY PA

      >I really feel pretty confident about the 11 NY peaks (13 over
      >2,000' prominence) since my independent map work, Edwards
      >computer program (results attached), and Ron's work (as double check
      >only) were all involved.
      >These 11 are surely as solid as any of the other prominence work I've
      >done - much of it simply a reworking of the computer generated list.

      I haven't been too impressed with the computer results as final output in
      this area - the summit is basically always too low (how come data doesn't
      include BM el?) and cols are erratic, Ron didn't have the new maps of
      the Adirondacks so it is really your work alone that is available.

      Since you've worked a lot with these lists you know the good and bad
      about them as well as I do. The following comments are more
      for general consumption:

      A uniform drop in summit height is not really a problem, though
      I agree that when you lose several hundred more feet (like Grand Teton
      did) it drops peaks way down the list - and possibly so far that
      they are never spotted.

      The trick is to continue to work on the computer list well past
      the top 50 or so that you are looking at. At the very least double
      check peak elevations for the next 20 places.

      Also, it pays to use the air maps to do some preliminary work
      independent of the computer list. This is in effect a limited "double
      check", and is what was done in NY for peaks with 2,000' prominence.

      ... If I send this list along to these guys [3000' summit completers], they
      will immediately bag off the missing peaks and hand out copies to their
      friends, making it impossible to issue a corrected list since unlike the
      high peak lists there is no official mountain club to sponsor it.
      Hence it would be nice to recruit someone to check it on the map level
      before it gets passed around.

      I can email the list to any who might want to do a double
      check. The top 40 are so are pretty easy to confirm they
      belong on the list - the air maps are real handy. Gets a
      harder to be 100% sure no peak was left off by mistake.

      (Roy - hut to hill for Pinkham Notch staff)
      >>>How come you left off the 4250' by Pinkham Notch staff - there are
      >>>probably hundreds who have done it,

      >1. Would like at least one real name.
      >2. Do they own/rent the residences, and live in them more than
      > 3 months ? I don't want to admit every seasonal ranger who hiked
      > Rainier from Paradise, or McKinley from the 14,000' camp.

      1. Will get you a name, but feel silly as there are probably hundreds
      2. a) Pinkham Notch has bunkhouse accommodations for seasonal "motel" and
      trail crews, the summer folk are often college kids but as the motel is
      open year round there are people staying there for several months or more
      who may have no other real residence, and most of them probably climb Mt
      Washington at least once
      b) There were separate small cottages for hutmaster and assistant who
      would usually stay a couple years, now the job pays more and they live in
      town with the space converted to offices
      c) About half a mile down the road is a highway shed, at one time crews
      lived in most of the notches so they could start off plowing downhill but
      this may be the last one, AZ has one on the Apache Trail and one NE of
      Roosevelt Lake that I know of, highway crew less likely than AMC people
      to be hikers
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