Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

It's all in the cut

Expand Messages
  • gf willmetts
    Hello John I don’t think the foreign markets have much say in which versions they are given to watch or assume they are being given the right edition. Have I
    Message 1 of 6 , Jun 20 2:34 AM
    • 0 Attachment
      Hello
      John



      I don�t think the foreign markets have much
      say in which versions they are given to watch or assume they are being given the
      right edition. Have I mentioned before that we had the first season of �Star
      Trek: The Next Generation� with some episodes in the wrong order and Tasha Yar
      lived beyond her death because of it??



      What puzzles me with US TV channels is if
      they are cutting material to fit a time slot are they making a copy to do it
      with or aren�t they obliged to send the copy they were given back to show??



      Geoff




      *************** Geoff Willmetts editor, SFCrowsnest.org.uk and other suffixes ****************

      SFCrowsnest.org.uk is the biggest SF website in Europe and second biggest in the world
      and that's only because the first is a commerical site and they look to what we do!

      *************************************************************************************




      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Robert McNay
      I think the studios provide the edited version. They edit the shows to varying lengths and sell the local station the one they want.   At least that s what I
      Message 2 of 6 , Jun 20 5:00 AM
      • 0 Attachment
        I think the studios provide the edited version. They edit the shows to varying lengths and sell the local station the one they want.
         
        At least that's what I was told by a guy who worked for WGN years ago.
         
        RLM


        ________________________________
        From: gf willmetts <gfwillmetts-2@...>
        To: Search Chat <probe_control@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2013 4:34 AM
        Subject: [probe_control] It's all in the cut




        Hello
        John



            I don’t think the foreign markets have much
        say in which versions they are given to watch or assume they are being given the
        right edition. Have I mentioned before that we had the first season of ‘Star
        Trek: The Next Generation’ with some episodes in the wrong order and Tasha Yar
        lived beyond her death because of it??



            What puzzles me with US TV channels is if
        they are cutting material to fit a time slot are they making a copy to do it
        with or aren’t they obliged to send the copy they were given back to show??



        Geoff




        ***************  Geoff Willmetts    editor, SFCrowsnest.org.uk  and other suffixes ****************

                  SFCrowsnest.org.uk is the biggest SF website in Europe and second biggest in the world 
                        and that's only because the first is a commerical site and they look to what we do!

        *************************************************************************************


                               

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



        ------------------------------------

        Yahoo! Groups Links



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • John
        I ve no idea what the technology is today. Back in the film days, they would cut the celluloid, run the show, and if the station did not own the print (which
        Message 3 of 6 , Jun 20 7:26 AM
        • 0 Attachment
          I've no idea what the technology is today. Back in the film days, they
          would cut the celluloid, run the show, and if the station did not own the
          print (which I have written about before) they were expected to properly
          splice the section back in, and send the film on. I know this from
          personal observation at a TV station I interned at in 1981-1982. As a
          projectionist in college, we would take the reels from a feature we were
          running, cut off the leader from both ends, make one big long piece out of
          it for the showings, and then break the film back down to their individual
          reels and restore the proper leader to each end of the reels.

          I can only speculate that when shows were on video tape in the mid to late
          80's and on, that either they were making a temporary working copy with
          their own edits, or they were just fading out to go to commercial breaks so
          they could then fast forward the tape past the point they wanted to
          skip...which you could more easily do with tape since you had time codes
          for easier cueing.

          I would love to hear how shows are distributed today. I know in the 90's
          with the first run syndicated shows they were going out via satellite and
          stations were recording them. But how do old reruns go out today? Hard
          drives with an entire series in digital format? I myself am encoding all
          my VHS tapes and saving the HQ video on hard drives (with each drive having
          a separate back up drive of course.)


          On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 5:34 AM, gf willmetts
          <gfwillmetts-2@...>wrote:

          >
          >
          > Hello
          > John
          >
          >
          >
          > I don�t think the foreign markets have much
          > say in which versions they are given to watch or assume they are being
          > given the
          > right edition. Have I mentioned before that we had the first season of
          > �Star
          > Trek: The Next Generation� with some episodes in the wrong order and Tasha
          > Yar
          > lived beyond her death because of it??
          >
          >
          >
          > What puzzles me with US TV channels is if
          > they are cutting material to fit a time slot are they making a copy to do
          > it
          > with or aren�t they obliged to send the copy they were given back to show??
          >
          >
          >
          > Geoff
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Jim Alexander
          ... would cut the celluloid, run the show, and if the station did not own the print (which I have written about before) they were expected to properly splice
          Message 4 of 6 , Jun 20 7:55 AM
          • 0 Attachment
            >... Back in the film days, they
            would cut the celluloid, run the show, and if the station did not own the
            print (which I have written about before) they were expected to properly
            splice the section back in, and send the film on.
            ==============
            Exactly correct, John. That's how it worked. In those days, 16mm prints were 'bicycled' from one station to another, and it was each station's responsibility to put any trims they took out, back into the print. If an editor wanted to be really fancy, they'd cut a strip of black tape that looked essentially like an elongated 'diamond' shape, to make a better visual transition between two cut scenes. That's yet another thing they'd have to (hopefully) return to the original state, before sending the print onto the next station.
            ==============
            >... I can only speculate that when shows were on video tape in the mid to late
            80's and on, that either they were making a temporary working copy with
            their own edits, or they were just fading out to go to commercial breaks so
            they could then fast forward the tape past the point they wanted to
            skip...which you could more easily do with tape since you had time codes
            for easier cueing.
            ==============
            Most of the time, in the videotape era, you were pretty much 'locked in' to a running time. You're right, though. Sometimes, a separate working copy was made (like, with longer movies and such). Usually, it wasn't done with TV episodes.

            I *do* recall running our station running our videotape copies of 'Cheers' at a slightly faster rate, in order to allow more commercial inventory. I believe that was an illegal practice that the syndicator would have greatly frowned upon .
            ==============
            >... I would love to hear how shows are distributed today. I know in the 90's
            with the first run syndicated shows they were going out via satellite and
            stations were recording them.
            ==============
            Correct. That's how it works, John. Shows are sent out by satellite, and are recorded (either on tape, or in a digital format) by the local stations.
            ==============
            >... But how do old reruns go out today? Hard
            drives with an entire series in digital format?
            ==============
            Well, I see reruns of 'Futurama' and 'It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia' coming down via satellite. We don't show those particular series at the station where I work, but they're about the 'oldest' shows I see on the satellite (even though 'Futurama' has only recently been cancelled, and 'Sunny' is, I believe, still in production). And, they're recorded just like any other show (on tape or digital format).

            I hadn't heard about entire series being offered on hard drive, but, I guess that such a thing is possible.

            Jim Alexander


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • John
            Entire series on Hard Drive is pure speculation on my part. I thought of that because radio stations now can buy an entire music library...an entire
            Message 5 of 6 , Jun 20 8:16 AM
            • 0 Attachment
              Entire series on Hard Drive is pure speculation on my part. I thought of
              that because radio stations now can buy an entire music library...an entire
              format...on a hard drive. Software is also included so the station can do
              anything from "live assist" (meaning there are local DJs running things and
              announcing) to 100% automation. Now of course music has far less of a file
              size issue than video...especially video appropriate for HD broadcasting,
              but I can imagine sending out older shows in digital format on Hard Drive
              or as video files on DVD or Blu-Ray discs (not the kind that would play
              like we use at home, but just as cheap medium for transporting digital
              files.)

              It is interesting to hear that stations still use video tape. Or is that
              like small market stations in the 80's still using their 30 year old film
              chains while most everyone else had gone to all tape? Eventually they will
              have to go all digital?



              On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 10:55 AM, Jim Alexander <probecontrol@...>wrote:

              > **
              >
              >
              > >... But how do old reruns go out today? Hard
              > drives with an entire series in digital format?
              > ==============
              > Well, I see reruns of 'Futurama' and 'It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia'
              > coming down via satellite. We don't show those particular series at the
              > station where I work, but they're about the 'oldest' shows I see on the
              > satellite (even though 'Futurama' has only recently been cancelled, and
              > 'Sunny' is, I believe, still in production). And, they're recorded just
              > like any other show (on tape or digital format).
              >
              > I hadn't heard about entire series being offered on hard drive, but, I
              > guess that such a thing is possible.
              >
              > Jim Alexander
              >


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Jim Alexander
              ... like small market stations in the 80 s still using their 30 year old film chains while most everyone else had gone to all tape? ... There are 210 TV
              Message 6 of 6 , Jun 20 8:28 AM
              • 0 Attachment
                >... It is interesting to hear that stations still use video tape. Or is that
                like small market stations in the 80's still using their 30 year old film
                chains while most everyone else had gone to all tape?


                =============

                :D You're not too far from the truth.




                There are 210 TV Markets in the United States. The one in which I work is ranked 102, so we're just about in the middle. I figure that the larger markets have more sophisticated equipment, so, perhaps they're tape-less?





                We record our commercial spots inventory on a hard drive, and there's no tape involved. We shoot local commercials on cameras that use a memory card, so, there's no tape involved. But, on the longer-format half-hour and hour-long programs... we still use mini-DVC Pro cassette tapes. :)

                =============

                >... Eventually they will have to go all digital?
                =============

                Yes--I figure that'll be the case, John.




                Jim






                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.