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Re: [probe_control] Two Part or not Two Part or Three

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  • LambuLambu@aol.com
    Geoff, I wasn t forgetting that (hence my comment about Bianco giving his input from his hospital bed). I was thinking more of getting the PROBE agents into
    Message 1 of 9 , Mar 26, 2013
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      Geoff,


      I wasn't forgetting that (hence my comment about Bianco giving his input from his hospital bed). I was thinking more of getting the PROBE agents into the same room - a face to face meeting - just for the sake of having scenes like that. (And notice that I hadn't included many in my little adventure.) Finale, or Season Premier: either would have worked.


      As for US shows having multi-part stories, we've been doing that since TV started over here. There was one 'Have Gun Will Travel' 2-parter ("A Quiet Night In Town") ca. 1958; a 3-part 'Mission: Impossible' (I forget the name of that one) ca. late 1960s; the 2-part 'Star Trek' episode "The Menagerie" ca. 1966; several 2- and 3-part episodes of 'Get Smart' (again ca. 1960s); 'Hawaii: Five-0' was known for having quite a few, including a 3-part Season opener (early '70s, before 1973) titled "V For Vashon"; several Glen Larsen series (the original 'Galactica', 'Knight Rider', 'Buck Rodgers', and dare I mention 'Galactica 1980') all had multi-part stories. And those were just to name a few.


      Then there were the cross-over episodes with series such as 'Green Acres/Petticoat Junction/The Beverly Hillbillies' crossing over into each other with storylines following on. The same with 'Magnum, P.I', 'Simon & Simon', and 'Murder: She Wrote', again with one story leading into the next. 'Barnaby Jones' and 'Cannon' had several cross-overs, and the 'Barnaby' pilot was a 'Cannon' episode.


      So someone had to be keeping track of which episode aired and when, especially when running multi-part stories (and cross-overs) like that. I'm sure there are many more that I can't think of at the moment, so if anyone else can think of multi-part stories, please chime in. (But with something other than the 'Lost In Space' "To Be Continued Next Week..." teaser at the end of every Season 1 and 2 episode, and 'The Time Tunnel' Season 1.)


      Dino.


      -----Original Message-----
      From: gf willmetts <gfwillmetts-2@...>
      To: Search Chat <probe_control@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Mon, Mar 25, 2013 3:41 pm
      Subject: [probe_control] Two Part or not Two Part or Three

      Hello
      Dino

      I�ll play devil�s advocate, mostly cos the
      hoofed one pays attention to me.

      You�re forgetting the whole point of the
      telemetry. None of the PROBES would have to physically meet to trade
      information so wouldn�t necessarily have to appear in each other�s story. I did
      ponder on one of them getting injured as that would be the way to bring in a
      stand-by PROBE. If there is an injury, then it would make more sense for a
      three part finale than at the beginning of a season.


      Hello
      Bob

      Had Leslie Stevens stayed with the show, do
      you think he might have considered a multi-parter?? Mind you, considering the
      perchance for US channels for showing stories out of order, he might have said
      no.

      Outside of soaps, were there ever
      multi-parts up to that time?? I remember there was a three-parter between The
      Six Million Dollar Man and The Bionic Woman.

      Geoff

      *************** Geoff Willmetts editor, SFCrowsnest.org.uk and other
      suffixes ****************

      Please note NEW email address while OLD one is
      being sorted out.

      Biggest SF website in Europe and second biggest, and that's only because the
      first is a commerical site, in the world
      and they look to what we do!

      *************************************************************************************





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • gf willmetts
      Hello DinoEven back in the 70s and I suspect this was also the reason with ‘The Name Of The Game’, it would have been contract and cost that
      Message 2 of 9 , Mar 27, 2013
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        Hello
        Dino



        Even back in the 70s and I suspect this was
        also the reason with ‘The Name Of The Game’, it would have been contract and
        cost that would have kept all three lead actors in their separate parts even
        before getting to things like egos.



        As to multi-parters from the 60s-early 70s
        (Knight Rider was late 70s when that happened), they weren’t the rule but the
        rare exception. If memory serves, ‘Mission Impossible only had a couple
        two-parters. Star Trek’s ‘The Meneragie’ became a two-parter to fit in the
        footage from the new regulars.



        Having new series pilots as part of an
        existing series was just a sneaky way to get past the pilot season. They weren’t
        always successful. There was one in ‘Knight Rider’ that didn’t progress for
        instance.



        A lot of Irwin Allen shows has ‘Continued
        Next Week’ to ensure the readers would tune in. The nearest to doing it
        accurately was ‘The Time Tunnel’ although considering that the reset button was
        done at the end of each story, the characters never evolved so would never had
        to think, what’s changed with the characters. You also forgot the two-parters
        1960s Batman show as well.

        If you want to have a ponder, Dino, outside
        of soaps, what was the first US genre show had character development of that
        order. Logistically, I would consider ST-TNG but anything significant only
        happened at the end of season although it did get better after the Borg
        two-parter split between seasons.



        Geoff





        *************** Geoff Willmetts editor, SFCrowsnest.org.uk and other suffixes ****************

        Please note NEW email address while OLD one is being sorted out.

        Biggest SF website in Europe and second biggest, and that's only because the first is a commerical site, in the world
        and they look to what we do!

        *************************************************************************************


        To: probe_control@yahoogroups.com
        From: LambuLambu@...
        Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2013 01:18:49 -0400
        Subject: Re: [probe_control] Two Part or not Two Part or Three


























        Geoff,



        I wasn't forgetting that (hence my comment about Bianco giving his input from his hospital bed). I was thinking more of getting the PROBE agents into the same room - a face to face meeting - just for the sake of having scenes like that. (And notice that I hadn't included many in my little adventure.) Finale, or Season Premier: either would have worked.



        As for US shows having multi-part stories, we've been doing that since TV started over here. There was one 'Have Gun Will Travel' 2-parter ("A Quiet Night In Town") ca. 1958; a 3-part 'Mission: Impossible' (I forget the name of that one) ca. late 1960s; the 2-part 'Star Trek' episode "The Menagerie" ca. 1966; several 2- and 3-part episodes of 'Get Smart' (again ca. 1960s); 'Hawaii: Five-0' was known for having quite a few, including a 3-part Season opener (early '70s, before 1973) titled "V For Vashon"; several Glen Larsen series (the original 'Galactica', 'Knight Rider', 'Buck Rodgers', and dare I mention 'Galactica 1980') all had multi-part stories. And those were just to name a few.



        Then there were the cross-over episodes with series such as 'Green Acres/Petticoat Junction/The Beverly Hillbillies' crossing over into each other with storylines following on. The same with 'Magnum, P.I', 'Simon & Simon', and 'Murder: She Wrote', again with one story leading into the next. 'Barnaby Jones' and 'Cannon' had several cross-overs, and the 'Barnaby' pilot was a 'Cannon' episode.



        So someone had to be keeping track of which episode aired and when, especially when running multi-part stories (and cross-overs) like that. I'm sure there are many more that I can't think of at the moment, so if anyone else can think of multi-part stories, please chime in. (But with something other than the 'Lost In Space' "To Be Continued Next Week..." teaser at the end of every Season 1 and 2 episode, and 'The Time Tunnel' Season 1.)



        Dino.



        -----Original Message-----

        From: gf willmetts <gfwillmetts-2@...>

        To: Search Chat <probe_control@yahoogroups.com>

        Sent: Mon, Mar 25, 2013 3:41 pm

        Subject: [probe_control] Two Part or not Two Part or Three



        Hello

        Dino



        I�ll play devil�s advocate, mostly cos the

        hoofed one pays attention to me.



        You�re forgetting the whole point of the

        telemetry. None of the PROBES would have to physically meet to trade

        information so wouldn�t necessarily have to appear in each other�s story. I did

        ponder on one of them getting injured as that would be the way to bring in a

        stand-by PROBE. If there is an injury, then it would make more sense for a

        three part finale than at the beginning of a season.



        Hello

        Bob



        Had Leslie Stevens stayed with the show, do

        you think he might have considered a multi-parter?? Mind you, considering the

        perchance for US channels for showing stories out of order, he might have said

        no.



        Outside of soaps, were there ever

        multi-parts up to that time?? I remember there was a three-parter between The

        Six Million Dollar Man and The Bionic Woman.



        Geoff



        *************** Geoff Willmetts editor, SFCrowsnest.org.uk and other

        suffixes ****************



        Please note NEW email address while OLD one is

        being sorted out.



        Biggest SF website in Europe and second biggest, and that's only because the

        first is a commerical site, in the world

        and they look to what we do!



        *************************************************************************************



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


















        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • John
        Hill Street Blues, January, 1981 The first show I remember making references to previous episodes in the order they aired was The Fantastic Journey in 1977. On
        Message 3 of 9 , Mar 27, 2013
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          Hill Street Blues, January, 1981

          The first show I remember making references to previous episodes in the
          order they aired was The Fantastic Journey in 1977.

          On Wed, Mar 27, 2013 at 6:51 AM, gf willmetts
          <gfwillmetts-2@...>wrote:

          > **
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > If you want to have a ponder, Dino, outside
          > of soaps, what was the first US genre show had character development of
          > that
          > order. Logistically, I would consider ST-TNG but anything significant only
          > happened at the end of season although it did get better after the Borg
          > two-parter split between seasons.
          >
          > Geoff
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • LambuLambu@aol.com
          Geoff, I didn t forget about the 1960s Batman series as when it aired, it was already formatted as the serials of the 1950s (only in 2-part rather than 10).
          Message 4 of 9 , Mar 27, 2013
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            Geoff,


            I didn't forget about the 1960s 'Batman' series as when it aired, it was already formatted as the serials of the 1950s (only in 2-part rather than 10). 'Batman' was intended to be shown that way.


            'Knight Rider' was actually early-mid 1980s (1982-1986), and yes, I remember the "backdoor pilots" they showed, which as you say didn't work. 'The Brady Bunch' had several multi-part stories, and they also had at least one "backdoor" pilot that I can remember (the episode involved friends of the Bradys who'd adopted three boys; one Asian, one African-American, and one Caucasian, and the difficulties they had with their neighbors; the Bradys featured mainly at the very beginning and end of the episode; that pilot also didn't work). The police show 'Adam-12' also had such a backdoor pilot (I think involving a doctor who was trying to prove another doctor was a quack and scamming people out of their money as they tried to restore their young daughter's eyesight; again that pilot also didn't work).


            But the issue was filming order vs. broadcast order and keeping things in their proper order, which is why I used 'Lost In Space' as an example. They may not have filmed things in the order they were shown, but with each Season 1 and 2 episode ending with the "To be continued next week..." cliffhanger for the following episode, no matter what order they filmed in, someone had to keep track of what was to be shown when.


            Even in this decade things have to be kept track of. For example, when Matt Smith took over the 'Doctor who' role, the first episodes they filmed were for the 2-parter "The Time of Angels/Flesh and Stone", which were the 3rd and 4th episodes. They filmed Matt's regeneration and his "first" episode after those. So someone does have to keep track of story order. (I can only imagine this being exacerbated in the Classic Series when they had up to 10-part stories, and didn't film each part in order!)


            As for ST:TNG, they only jumped on the season-ending cliffhanger bandwagon at the end of their 3rd season. That sort of thing actually started with 'Dallas' and the whole "Who shot J.R.?!" thing. Then other Prime Time Soaps started.


            Now the big thing, which the new 'Galactica' seems to have started is the "mid-season finale", which is nothing more than an annoying cliffhanger, and sadly, Moffat has added 'Doctor Who' to that list.


            Dino.


            -----Original Message-----
            From: gf willmetts <gfwillmetts-2@...>
            To: Search Chat <probe_control@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Wed, Mar 27, 2013 6:51 am
            Subject: RE: [probe_control] Two Part or not Two Part or Three




            Hello
            Dino

            Even back in the 70s and I suspect this was
            also the reason with ‘The Name Of The Game’, it would have been contract and
            cost that would have kept all three lead actors in their separate parts even
            before getting to things like egos.

            As to multi-parters from the 60s-early 70s
            (Knight Rider was late 70s when that happened), they weren’t the rule but the
            rare exception. If memory serves, ‘Mission Impossible only had a couple
            two-parters. Star Trek’s ‘The Meneragie’ became a two-parter to fit in the
            footage from the new regulars.

            Having new series pilots as part of an
            existing series was just a sneaky way to get past the pilot season. They weren’t
            always successful. There was one in ‘Knight Rider’ that didn’t progress for
            instance.

            A lot of Irwin Allen shows has ‘Continued
            Next Week’ to ensure the readers would tune in. The nearest to doing it
            accurately was ‘The Time Tunnel’ although considering that the reset button was
            done at the end of each story, the characters never evolved so would never had
            to think, what’s changed with the characters. You also forgot the two-parters
            1960s Batman show as well.

            If you want to have a ponder, Dino, outside
            of soaps, what was the first US genre show had character development of that
            order. Logistically, I would consider ST-TNG but anything significant only
            happened at the end of season although it did get better after the Borg
            two-parter split between seasons.

            Geoff

            *************** Geoff Willmetts editor, SFCrowsnest.org.uk and other suffixes ****************

            Please note NEW email address while OLD one is being sorted out.

            Biggest SF website in Europe and second biggest, and that's only because the first is a commerical site, in the world
            and they look to what we do!

            *************************************************************************************






            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • John
            The third season of Batman would count, since they were then once a week, and they did a number of two parters, and even a three parter. And the fact that I
            Message 5 of 9 , Mar 27, 2013
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              The third season of Batman would count, since they were then once a week,
              and they did a number of two parters, and even a three parter.

              And the fact that I know that off the top of my head is proof positive that
              I have never had a life.



              On Wed, Mar 27, 2013 at 3:46 PM, LambuLambu@... <LambuLambu@...>wrote:

              > **
              >
              >
              > Geoff,
              >
              > I didn't forget about the 1960s 'Batman' series as when it aired, it was
              > already formatted as the serials of the 1950s (only in 2-part rather than
              > 10). 'Batman' was intended to be shown that way.
              >
              > 'Knight Rider' was actually early-mid 1980s (1982-1986), and yes, I
              > remember the "backdoor pilots" they showed, which as you say didn't work.
              > 'The Brady Bunch' had several multi-part stories, and they also had at
              > least one "backdoor" pilot that I can remember (the episode involved
              > friends of the Bradys who'd adopted three boys; one Asian, one
              > African-American, and one Caucasian, and the difficulties they had with
              > their neighbors; the Bradys featured mainly at the very beginning and end
              > of the episode; that pilot also didn't work). The police show 'Adam-12'
              > also had such a backdoor pilot (I think involving a doctor who was trying
              > to prove another doctor was a quack and scamming people out of their money
              > as they tried to restore their young daughter's eyesight; again that pilot
              > also didn't work).
              >
              > But the issue was filming order vs. broadcast order and keeping things in
              > their proper order, which is why I used 'Lost In Space' as an example. They
              > may not have filmed things in the order they were shown, but with each
              > Season 1 and 2 episode ending with the "To be continued next week..."
              > cliffhanger for the following episode, no matter what order they filmed in,
              > someone had to keep track of what was to be shown when.
              >
              > Even in this decade things have to be kept track of. For example, when
              > Matt Smith took over the 'Doctor who' role, the first episodes they filmed
              > were for the 2-parter "The Time of Angels/Flesh and Stone", which were the
              > 3rd and 4th episodes. They filmed Matt's regeneration and his "first"
              > episode after those. So someone does have to keep track of story order. (I
              > can only imagine this being exacerbated in the Classic Series when they had
              > up to 10-part stories, and didn't film each part in order!)
              >
              > As for ST:TNG, they only jumped on the season-ending cliffhanger bandwagon
              > at the end of their 3rd season. That sort of thing actually started with
              > 'Dallas' and the whole "Who shot J.R.?!" thing. Then other Prime Time Soaps
              > started.
              >
              > Now the big thing, which the new 'Galactica' seems to have started is the
              > "mid-season finale", which is nothing more than an annoying cliffhanger,
              > and sadly, Moffat has added 'Doctor Who' to that list.
              >
              > Dino
              >


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Robert McNay
              ... From: LambuLambu@aol.com Subject: Re: [probe_control] Two Part or not Two Part or Three Now the big thing, which the new Galactica
              Message 6 of 9 , Mar 27, 2013
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                ----- Original Message ----
                From: "LambuLambu@..." <LambuLambu@...>
                Subject: Re: [probe_control] Two Part or not Two Part or Three


                Now the big thing, which the new 'Galactica' seems to have started is the
                "mid-season finale", which is nothing more than an annoying cliffhanger, and
                sadly, Moffat has added 'Doctor Who' to that list.

                ------------------------------------------------------

                No, that's more a product of how cable channels work. They will split seasons or
                even skip a year between seasons. Good examples are the USA Net shows like Burn
                Notice, they'll show 6 or 7 episodes in the fall, then the second half of the
                seaon is shown in the spring.


                Sherlock on PBS, season 1 and 2 were back to back, but they started shooting
                season 3 only a week or so ago, almost 2 years after season 2 shot. With Dr Who,
                since its really being primarily produced for BBC America, they are following
                suit to other cable channels in splitting seasons.

                In the case of the new BSG, it was also money and willingness on NBC/Universal's
                part to even continue it, that produced 1/2 seasons. Even the DVD sets were
                forced into that pattern, being sold as season 1, 2, 2.5, 3, 4, 4.5. They
                released half season sets because there was no guarantee that there was going to
                be a second half. Producer Moore et al, had to fight to keep it going. Us fans
                are lucky we even got to see a finale to it.

                Half seasons are more a product of corporate economics that anything else.

                Rob McNay
                Chicago IL
              • LambuLambu@aol.com
                You are probably right about the mid-season breaks, Rob, but I still find them annoying; or more precisely, the length of time they drag on for. I think we all
                Message 7 of 9 , Mar 27, 2013
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                  You are probably right about the mid-season breaks, Rob, but I still find them annoying; or more precisely, the length of time they drag on for. I think we all remember the times when the "mid season breaks" were the 4 to 6 weeks around the Holiday Season, when we were treated to re-runs during that time. It wasn't so annoying then because we still had our shows to watch, and a chance to catch an episode we may have missed or that may have been pre-empted.


                  These days, we go six months or more, left on a cliffhanger, with no re-runs in between so we can't even catch that missed episode. We have to wait for the "all day marathon" of preceding episodes, scanning the preview guide to see when the missed episode will air, and then possibly have to record it because it's airing at some unholy hour - or while one is working. And those marathons only happen a month or so before the season picks up again; so once the marathon is ended, we're left - again - with a month or so drought as the show vanishes from the screen until the new episodes premier. Annoying no matter how I see it.


                  I like the old way of airing shows better. Give me a full season in one go - have your mid season break around the Holidays to stretch things out - and then a week or two after New Year's get the rest of the season going again. (And yes, give me some re-runs over the summer so I can catch more episodes that I may have missed.)


                  Dino.


                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: Robert McNay <CptMatt@...>
                  To: probe_control <probe_control@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Wed, Mar 27, 2013 4:12 pm
                  Subject: Re: [probe_control] Two Part or not Two Part or Three




                  No, that's more a product of how cable channels work. They will split seasons or
                  even skip a year between seasons. Good examples are the USA Net shows like Burn
                  Notice, they'll show 6 or 7 episodes in the fall, then the second half of the
                  seaon is shown in the spring.

                  Sherlock on PBS, season 1 and 2 were back to back, but they started shooting
                  season 3 only a week or so ago, almost 2 years after season 2 shot. With Dr Who,
                  since its really being primarily produced for BBC America, they are following
                  suit to other cable channels in splitting seasons.

                  In the case of the new BSG, it was also money and willingness on NBC/Universal's
                  part to even continue it, that produced 1/2 seasons. Even the DVD sets were
                  forced into that pattern, being sold as season 1, 2, 2.5, 3, 4, 4.5. They
                  released half season sets because there was no guarantee that there was going to
                  be a second half. Producer Moore et al, had to fight to keep it going. Us fans
                  are lucky we even got to see a finale to it.

                  Half seasons are more a product of corporate economics that anything else.

                  Rob McNay
                  Chicago IL









                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • John
                  Your sentence below makes me think of the way they did it in England, or still do it. After having watched shows airing here all at once, and then looking at
                  Message 8 of 9 , Mar 28, 2013
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                    Your sentence below makes me think of the way they did it in England, or
                    still do it.

                    After having watched shows airing here all at once, and then looking at
                    their original air dates over there, it always amazed me the length of time
                    between production cycles...at least from the Yank standpoint.

                    With the diluting of audiences over large numbers of content providers, I
                    think that the U.S. is going the way of the rest of the world as far as
                    number of episodes, breaks between airings, etc.


                    On Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 1:52 AM, LambuLambu@... <LambuLambu@...>wrote:

                    > **
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > These days, we go six months or more, left on a cliffhanger, with no
                    > re-runs in between so we can't even catch that missed episode.
                    >


                    > Dino.
                    >


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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