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Re: [probe_control] change and solder

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  • LambuLambu@aol.com
    Geoff, The first few things on my list of lags is certainly a reluctance to change, and in some cases stupidity; in WWII Florida refused to abide by the
    Message 1 of 7 , Feb 22 8:12 AM
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      Geoff,


      The first few things on my list of "lags" is certainly a reluctance to change, and in some cases stupidity; in WWII Florida refused to abide by the coastal blackout order because their tourist board was afraid it would have an adverse impact on their tourist business. Thus, thousands of tons of shipping fell victim to U-Boats until Uncle Sam came down on Florida like a ton of concrete blocks.


      As for the scanner, someone did mention that solder could have been applied to the scanner as a repair or the like during production. (I'm sure even the hero scanner took a little bit of a beating as it was handled.)


      Our boats' electronics: No doubt, but as I said, the only solder available for general and military purchase until the late 2000s was the tin/lead solder. Something way beyond my control. Only the silver solder for brazing was made without lead because it was used in plumbing pipes, and they found that lead from the old solder was seeping into the water. So that did change in the '60s or '70s - about the same time they started taking the lead out of paint over here.


      Dino.


      -----Original Message-----
      From: gf willmetts <gfwillmetts-2@...>
      To: Search Chat <probe_control@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Fri, Feb 22, 2013 6:26 am
      Subject: [probe_control] change and solder


      Hello
      Dino

      Re: lagging behind. Looking at your list,
      do you think it can be divided between wanting to keep things cheap or afraid
      of change being significant reasons for them??

      The rust on the scanner didn�t resemble tin
      rust but I could be wrong. Had a look at Google images and it shows a dirty
      brown. Iron rust is much lighter. As I said, I don�t think it was solder on the
      front of the scanner unless it was applied after production.

      Your boat electronics would have done
      better soldered with zinc.

      Geoff

      *************** Geoff Willmetts editor, SFCrowsnest.org.uk and other
      suffixes ****************

      Please note NEW email address while OLD one is
      being sorted out.

      Biggest SF website in Europe and second biggest, and that's only because the
      first is a commerical site, in the world
      and they look to what we do!

      *************************************************************************************





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • gf willmetts
      Hello Dino I wasn’t going to raise the stupidity aspect. Your Florida example sounds like seeing self-interest over anything else. Re: Hero Scanner. Jim
      Message 2 of 7 , Feb 22 11:43 AM
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        Hello
        Dino



        I wasn’t going to raise the stupidity
        aspect. Your Florida example sounds like seeing self-interest over anything
        else.



        Re: Hero Scanner. Jim Alexander will
        probably confirm this but the hero scanner was only used for close-ups, all the
        rest were stunt doubles and these were invariably lost or damaged when they
        fell off the magnet. Considering it filled the screen, you certainly couldn’t
        have any front damage showing.



        Geoff





        *************** Geoff Willmetts editor, SFCrowsnest.org.uk and other suffixes ****************

        Please note NEW email address while OLD one is being sorted out.

        Biggest SF website in Europe and second biggest, and that's only because the first is a commerical site, in the world
        and they look to what we do!

        *************************************************************************************


        To: probe_control@yahoogroups.com
        From: LambuLambu@...
        Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 11:12:39 -0500
        Subject: Re: [probe_control] change and solder


























        Geoff,



        The first few things on my list of "lags" is certainly a reluctance to change, and in some cases stupidity; in WWII Florida refused to abide by the coastal blackout order because their tourist board was afraid it would have an adverse impact on their tourist business. Thus, thousands of tons of shipping fell victim to U-Boats until Uncle Sam came down on Florida like a ton of concrete blocks.



        As for the scanner, someone did mention that solder could have been applied to the scanner as a repair or the like during production. (I'm sure even the hero scanner took a little bit of a beating as it was handled.)



        Our boats' electronics: No doubt, but as I said, the only solder available for general and military purchase until the late 2000s was the tin/lead solder. Something way beyond my control. Only the silver solder for brazing was made without lead because it was used in plumbing pipes, and they found that lead from the old solder was seeping into the water. So that did change in the '60s or '70s - about the same time they started taking the lead out of paint over here.



        Dino.



        -----Original Message-----

        From: gf willmetts gfwillmetts-2@...>

        To: Search Chat probe_control@yahoogroups.com>

        Sent: Fri, Feb 22, 2013 6:26 am

        Subject: [probe_control] change and solder



        Hello

        Dino



        Re: lagging behind. Looking at your list,

        do you think it can be divided between wanting to keep things cheap or afraid

        of change being significant reasons for them??



        The rust on the scanner didn�t resemble tin

        rust but I could be wrong. Had a look at Google images and it shows a dirty

        brown. Iron rust is much lighter. As I said, I don�t think it was solder on the

        front of the scanner unless it was applied after production.



        Your boat electronics would have done

        better soldered with zinc.



        Geoff



        *************** Geoff Willmetts editor, SFCrowsnest.org.uk and other

        suffixes ****************



        Please note NEW email address while OLD one is

        being sorted out.



        Biggest SF website in Europe and second biggest, and that's only because the

        first is a commerical site, in the world

        and they look to what we do!



        *************************************************************************************



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


















        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • John
        I need to get the Archive release on the laptop and do some freeze frames to see how often the hero was used. From looking at the film clips all these years,
        Message 3 of 7 , Feb 22 1:32 PM
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          I need to get the Archive release on the laptop and do some freeze frames
          to see how often the hero was used. From looking at the film clips all
          these years, I always thought the hero was used whenever there was no quick
          movements, because there are so many shots where you see a lot more detail
          than is present on the stunt prop. The episodes, when they come out, will
          also require some freeze frame examination.

          On Fri, Feb 22, 2013 at 2:43 PM, gf willmetts
          <gfwillmetts-2@...>wrote:

          > **
          >
          >


          > Hello
          >
          > Dino
          >
          >
          >
          > Re: Hero Scanner. Jim Alexander will
          > probably confirm this but the hero scanner was only used for close-ups,
          > all the
          > rest were stunt doubles and these were invariably lost or damaged when
          > they
          > fell off the magnet. Considering it filled the screen, you certainly
          > couldn�t
          > have any front damage showing.
          >
          >
          >
          > Geoff
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Jim Alexander
          Re: Hero Scanner. Jim Alexander will probably confirm this but the hero scanner was only used for close-ups, all the rest were stunt doubles and these were
          Message 4 of 7 , Feb 22 1:40 PM
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            Re: Hero Scanner. Jim Alexander will probably confirm this but the hero scanner was only used for close-ups, all the rest were stunt doubles and these were invariably lost or damaged when they fell off the magnet. Considering it filled the screen, you certainly couldn’t have any front damage showing.





            ===============

            Well, I'm sure that John and Don will confirm that *nearly* everything in Hollywood has a back-up, to assure that 'the show must go on,' in the case of something being damaged, destroyed or lost. So, who knows if there was, in fact, more than one 'hero' scanner. I would propose that it's entirely possible that there was more than one.




            And that stunt scanner (in John Strong's eBay auction) looks pretty bad--and I don't just mean 'with age.' It really bears only the smallest relation to the hero scanner.





            In fact, now that I think about it, I'd be very surprised if there wasn't a 'mid-grade' scanner that was used for medium shots, and the like. In fact, such a item might have been the most oft-used of all.





            Don will confirm that the first STAR TREK series had a variety of Phaser props. From stunt versions that were little more than crudely-painted, hand-carved throwabout props... to mid-grade Phasers that were designed to look better than the stunt props (but not as good as the 'hero)... to, of course, the hero--used mostly for close-ups. In fact, I was gifted with a meticulously-recreated mid-grade Phaser prop a few years ago.




            I say all this to propose that, from the rougher-than-rough looks of Strong's 'stunt' scanner, and the judicious use of the 'hero,' there almost HAD to be a mid-grade scanner prop.





            Thoughts?




            Jim Alexander


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • John
            Had to be something. I need to dig out the 400 DPI scan of this image and see who has what on.
            Message 5 of 7 , Feb 22 2:25 PM
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              Had to be something. I need to dig out the 400 DPI scan of this image and
              see who has what on.
              http://probecontrol.artshost.com/Episodes/imagepages/172var.html

              On Fri, Feb 22, 2013 at 4:40 PM, Jim Alexander <probecontrol@...>wrote:

              > **
              >
              >
              > Re: Hero Scanner. Jim Alexander will probably confirm this but the hero
              > scanner was only used for close-ups, all the rest were stunt doubles and
              > these were invariably lost or damaged when they fell off the magnet.
              > Considering it filled the screen, you certainly couldn�t have any front
              > damage showing.
              >
              > ===============
              >
              > Well, I'm sure that John and Don will confirm that *nearly* everything in
              > Hollywood has a back-up, to assure that 'the show must go on,' in the case
              > of something being damaged, destroyed or lost. So, who knows if there was,
              > in fact, more than one 'hero' scanner. I would propose that it's entirely
              > possible that there was more than one.
              >
              > And that stunt scanner (in John Strong's eBay auction) looks pretty
              > bad--and I don't just mean 'with age.' It really bears only the smallest
              > relation to the hero scanner.
              >
              > In fact, now that I think about it, I'd be very surprised if there wasn't
              > a 'mid-grade' scanner that was used for medium shots, and the like. In
              > fact, such a item might have been the most oft-used of all.
              >
              > Don will confirm that the first STAR TREK series had a variety of Phaser
              > props. From stunt versions that were little more than crudely-painted,
              > hand-carved throwabout props... to mid-grade Phasers that were designed to
              > look better than the stunt props (but not as good as the 'hero)... to, of
              > course, the hero--used mostly for close-ups. In fact, I was gifted with a
              > meticulously-recreated mid-grade Phaser prop a few years ago.
              >
              > I say all this to propose that, from the rougher-than-rough looks of
              > Strong's 'stunt' scanner, and the judicious use of the 'hero,' there almost
              > HAD to be a mid-grade scanner prop.
              >
              > Thoughts?
              >
              > Jim Alexander
              >


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • LambuLambu@aol.com
              Geoff, In the Florida example, it could be considered as self-interest, but when it was costing thousands of lives needlessly for that self-interest, it s
              Message 6 of 7 , Feb 22 11:48 PM
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                Geoff,


                In the Florida example, it could be considered as self-interest, but when it was costing thousands of lives needlessly for that self-interest, it's stupidity. Just no other way of putting it.


                As for the hero scanner, I realize that it was for extreme close-ups only, however it was handled by props handlers who don't always take the best care of the props they handle. Unless they only used stock footage of the Pilot's extreme close-ups, the hero scanner prop was most likely handled on a daily basis. It is possible - not saying that it happened, just that it was possible - that at some point the prop suffered damage and had to be lightly tack soldered around the lens housing. (As I mentioned someone else here has also suggested a repair may have been made to the prop at some point.)


                The repairs would no doubt have been carried out quite carefully so they wouldn't be noticed on screen. And let's face it, when 'Search' aired, the close-ups of the scanner didn't last very long, the film and TV resolution wasn't as sharp as they are today, and unless you were very wealthy you had no way of video recording the episodes back then and therefor couldn't pause a playback to look closely at the scanner details. Even in the '80s and '90s, before the dawn of the DVD, pausing a VCR tape to look at the detail of something didn't give that great of an image thanks to the blur of motion, unless you managed to catch what you wanted to see when it wasn't moving at all.


                Just trying to account for the rusty spots on the prop, and the tin in the old solder "could" cause that after 40+ years.


                Dino.


                -----Original Message-----
                From: gf willmetts <gfwillmetts-2@...>
                To: Search Chat <probe_control@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Fri, Feb 22, 2013 2:43 pm
                Subject: RE: [probe_control] change and solder




                Hello
                Dino

                I wasn’t going to raise the stupidity
                aspect. Your Florida example sounds like seeing self-interest over anything
                else.

                Re: Hero Scanner. Jim Alexander will
                probably confirm this but the hero scanner was only used for close-ups, all the
                rest were stunt doubles and these were invariably lost or damaged when they
                fell off the magnet. Considering it filled the screen, you certainly couldn’t
                have any front damage showing.

                Geoff

                *************** Geoff Willmetts editor, SFCrowsnest.org.uk and other suffixes ****************

                Please note NEW email address while OLD one is being sorted out.

                Biggest SF website in Europe and second biggest, and that's only because the first is a commerical site, in the world
                and they look to what we do!

                *************************************************************************************






                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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