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metal and moulds

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  • gf willmetts
    Hello John I had the same message from Jim’s link as well. I can understand it not being given a region 2 release, we get these all the time, but a region 1
    Message 1 of 6 , Feb 20, 2013
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      Hello
      John



      I had the same message from Jim�s link as
      well. I can understand it not being given a region 2 release, we get these all
      the time, but a region 1 as well??!!



      Hello
      Dino



      Unless things are different stateside, normal
      solder doesn�t actually contain tin but aluminum or zinc as the key metals. You�re
      hardly likely to solder at the front of a hero gadget cos it would be seen in
      close up when filmed. Mike S would probably explain more from the way he built
      his replicas done most of the work from the back or more likely make that
      particular part in a mould.



      Geoff







      *************** Geoff Willmetts editor, SFCrowsnest.org.uk and other suffixes ****************

      Please note NEW email address while OLD one is being sorted out.

      Biggest SF website in Europe and second biggest, and that's only because the first is a commerical site, in the world
      and they look to what we do!

      *************************************************************************************



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • John
      Yes, but what was the content of solder back in late 1971 when they were in preproduction for the pilot? Also, there was a different level of detail given to
      Message 2 of 6 , Feb 20, 2013
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        Yes, but what was the content of solder back in late 1971 when they were
        in preproduction for the pilot?

        Also, there was a different level of detail given to television
        props/miniatures back then due to what the final resolution would be on
        home screens. They did not worry about details past a certain point when
        it was headed for the small screen.

        This http://probecontrol.artshost.com/Episodes/imagepages/Probe009.html is
        a screen grab from the Unicorn VHS release of the pilot. It was sourced
        from a good print, the tape was at SP from a professional duplication
        house, and that was the resolution they would have expected for the viewer
        at home. And I tend to think the picture quality on that VHS was better
        than what most people were getting at home.

        It is also possible that those solder points were mid or late season
        repairs to the hero.


        On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 5:39 AM, gf willmetts
        <gfwillmetts-2@...>wrote:

        >
        >
        > Hello
        > Dino
        >
        >
        >
        > Unless things are different stateside, normal
        > solder doesn�t actually contain tin but aluminum or zinc as the key
        > metals. You�re
        > hardly likely to solder at the front of a hero gadget cos it would be seen
        > in
        > close up when filmed. Mike S would probably explain more from the way he
        > built
        > his replicas done most of the work from the back or more likely make that
        > particular part in a mould.
        >
        >
        >
        > Geoff


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • LambuLambu@aol.com
        Geoff, You re correct in that these days solder is made lead-free (safety for the environment as well as the tech doing the work) and with metals/alloys other
        Message 3 of 6 , Feb 21, 2013
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          Geoff,


          You're correct in that these days solder is made lead-free (safety for the environment as well as the tech doing the work) and with metals/alloys other than tin. However we are talking about something that was made over 40 years ago now. Back then, and for most of my electronic tech career (1981-2011), up until the early 2000s the solder available was a composite of 60/40 percentage of tin/lead. This was the most common solder available, which only makes sense that it would have been easily obtainable in the early '70s as well. It has a relatively low melting point (about 370 degrees F) which makes it great for electronics because small components like transistors, or the "new" IC chips and the tiny "flat pack" chips at that time didn't (and still don't) handle heat well.


          For lower temp melting point there is the 63/37 tin/lead solder and that was certainly available in the early '70s. Both solder ratios, aside from being available in different thicknesses on spools like wire, also came in thin ribbons (the best word for it since the strips were that thin - some like paper). These could be cut into whatever size was needed and was favored by jewelers because when done correctly the soldered joint wasn't noticeable. Therefore it is feasible that those support rods were soldered in such a way to the scanner's lens housing to hold (or as I mentioned, help hold) it in place.


          Such a "tack solder" would not be noticeable, especially if it was done with a snippet of the 63/37 ribbon solder placed between the rods and the lens housing, and then heated until the snippet melted, which would have been very quickly. And it wouldn't surprise me if for the hero scanner they had a jeweler involved with that part of the build when you consider the small size of the prop. (This may even hold true for the stunt scanner since it was also quite small.)


          The above tack solder method would have made a nice bond to hold that lens in place, been unnoticeable on camera, and over the last 40 years the tin in the solder could have built up some rust, which would explain what appears to be the rust on the original scanners.


          Dino.


          -----Original Message-----
          From: gf willmetts <gfwillmetts-2@...>
          To: Search Chat <probe_control@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Wed, Feb 20, 2013 5:39 am
          Subject: [probe_control] metal and moulds


          Hello
          Dino

          Unless things are different stateside, normal
          solder doesn�t actually contain tin but aluminum or zinc as the key metals.
          You�re
          hardly likely to solder at the front of a hero gadget cos it would be seen in
          close up when filmed. Mike S would probably explain more from the way he built
          his replicas done most of the work from the back or more likely make that
          particular part in a mould.

          Geoff

          *************** Geoff Willmetts editor, SFCrowsnest.org.uk and other
          suffixes ****************

          Please note NEW email address while OLD one is
          being sorted out.

          Biggest SF website in Europe and second biggest, and that's only because the
          first is a commerical site, in the world
          and they look to what we do!

          *************************************************************************************





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • gf willmetts
          Hello Dino I dunno about the USA, but I can’t recall anything else being used in solder in the UK. Lead isn’t like to rust neither. Just because it was
          Message 4 of 6 , Feb 21, 2013
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            Hello
            Dino



            I dunno about the USA, but I can’t recall
            anything else being used in solder in the UK. Lead isn’t like to rust neither.



            Just because it was available in the 70s
            over there, doesn’t mean it was used. Don’t forget the rust is on the front of that
            scanner, not on places where you would be soldering.



            I’m still curious to see if Mike S explains
            how he built the support in his version of the scanner.



            Geoff





            *************** Geoff Willmetts editor, SFCrowsnest.org.uk and other suffixes ****************

            Please note NEW email address while OLD one is being sorted out.

            Biggest SF website in Europe and second biggest, and that's only because the first is a commerical site, in the world
            and they look to what we do!

            *************************************************************************************


            To: probe_control@yahoogroups.com
            From: LambuLambu@...
            Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2013 13:05:00 -0500
            Subject: Re: [probe_control] metal and moulds


























            Geoff,



            You're correct in that these days solder is made lead-free (safety for the environment as well as the tech doing the work) and with metals/alloys other than tin. However we are talking about something that was made over 40 years ago now. Back then, and for most of my electronic tech career (1981-2011), up until the early 2000s the solder available was a composite of 60/40 percentage of tin/lead. This was the most common solder available, which only makes sense that it would have been easily obtainable in the early '70s as well. It has a relatively low melting point (about 370 degrees F) which makes it great for electronics because small components like transistors, or the "new" IC chips and the tiny "flat pack" chips at that time didn't (and still don't) handle heat well.



            For lower temp melting point there is the 63/37 tin/lead solder and that was certainly available in the early '70s. Both solder ratios, aside from being available in different thicknesses on spools like wire, also came in thin ribbons (the best word for it since the strips were that thin - some like paper). These could be cut into whatever size was needed and was favored by jewelers because when done correctly the soldered joint wasn't noticeable. Therefore it is feasible that those support rods were soldered in such a way to the scanner's lens housing to hold (or as I mentioned, help hold) it in place.



            Such a "tack solder" would not be noticeable, especially if it was done with a snippet of the 63/37 ribbon solder placed between the rods and the lens housing, and then heated until the snippet melted, which would have been very quickly. And it wouldn't surprise me if for the hero scanner they had a jeweler involved with that part of the build when you consider the small size of the prop. (This may even hold true for the stunt scanner since it was also quite small.)



            The above tack solder method would have made a nice bond to hold that lens in place, been unnoticeable on camera, and over the last 40 years the tin in the solder could have built up some rust, which would explain what appears to be the rust on the original scanners.



            Dino.



            -----Original Message-----

            From: gf willmetts gfwillmetts-2@...>

            To: Search Chat probe_control@yahoogroups.com>

            Sent: Wed, Feb 20, 2013 5:39 am

            Subject: [probe_control] metal and moulds



            Hello

            Dino



            Unless things are different stateside, normal

            solder doesn�t actually contain tin but aluminum or zinc as the key metals.

            You�re

            hardly likely to solder at the front of a hero gadget cos it would be seen in

            close up when filmed. Mike S would probably explain more from the way he built

            his replicas done most of the work from the back or more likely make that

            particular part in a mould.



            Geoff



            *************** Geoff Willmetts editor, SFCrowsnest.org.uk and other

            suffixes ****************



            Please note NEW email address while OLD one is

            being sorted out.



            Biggest SF website in Europe and second biggest, and that's only because the

            first is a commerical site, in the world

            and they look to what we do!



            *************************************************************************************



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


















            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • LambuLambu@aol.com
            Geoff, It pains me to say this, but the US has always lagged behind the UK in just about everything: rifled barrels in guns (small arms as well as artillery
            Message 5 of 6 , Feb 21, 2013
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              Geoff,


              It pains me to say this, but the US has always lagged behind the UK in just about everything: rifled barrels in guns (small arms as well as artillery and shipboard guns), Fresnel lenses in lighthouses, coastal blackouts during both World Wars, using convoys and escorts (again both WWs), giving women the right to vote... The only solder I've ever known and used was what I described and it was used in all electronics. So I have no doubt that if solder was needed and used for the scanner then it would have been one of the two most common solder mixes used for such small work: the 60/40 or the 63/37 tin/lead.


              Solder over here didn't start being made with aluminum replacing the lead, and copper and other alloys replacing the tin until about 2006. True, lead does not rust, however tin does, and the tin ratio in the solder was the higher content of the two. And as I've said, I've seen solder develop rust over time. (Some of our shipboard equipment that was on the bridge and not environmentally controlled, and didn't have its circuit boards covered in "conformal coating" - basically thick liquid plastic dip - actually had circuit boards develop such rust that components would just fall off as you removed the boards because their leads, and the circuit runs on the boards where they were soldered to had rusted away.)


              The only other solder available is what they refer to as "silver solder" and is used mostly for brazing large items, such as copper plumbing pipes and heavy grounding straps. This sort of soldering takes a great deal of heat to melt it and if used on something as small as the scanner, the scanner would show signs of heat discoloration because you need an acetylene torch/blow lamp to reach the heat needed to melt the solder (well over 800F) and it's not a "pin-point" heat application as would be the 63/37 where a "pencil point" soldering iron could be used on a very tiny spot, and its melting point is only about 360F.


              And like you, I'm curious to hear what Mike has to say about his works of art (if he does say anything).


              Dino.


              -----Original Message-----
              From: gf willmetts <gfwillmetts-2@...>
              To: Search Chat <probe_control@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Thu, Feb 21, 2013 2:23 pm
              Subject: RE: [probe_control] metal and moulds




              Hello
              Dino

              I dunno about the USA, but I can’t recall
              anything else being used in solder in the UK. Lead isn’t like to rust neither.

              Just because it was available in the 70s
              over there, doesn’t mean it was used. Don’t forget the rust is on the front of that
              scanner, not on places where you would be soldering.

              I’m still curious to see if Mike S explains
              how he built the support in his version of the scanner.

              Geoff

              *************** Geoff Willmetts editor, SFCrowsnest.org.uk and other suffixes ****************

              Please note NEW email address while OLD one is being sorted out.

              Biggest SF website in Europe and second biggest, and that's only because the first is a commerical site, in the world
              and they look to what we do!

              *************************************************************************************






              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • gf willmetts
              Hello Dino Re: Rods. I had another look at the picture showed recently. I’m sure I’ve seen a picture where they reached down into the housing. That might
              Message 6 of 6 , Feb 24, 2013
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                Hello
                Dino



                Re: Rods. I had another look at the picture
                showed recently. I�m sure I�ve seen a picture where they reached down into the
                housing. That might explain different versions. A better word would be struts.



                Geoff





                *************** Geoff Willmetts editor, SFCrowsnest.org.uk and other suffixes ****************

                Please note NEW email address while OLD one is being sorted out.

                Biggest SF website in Europe and second biggest, and that's only because the first is a commerical site, in the world
                and they look to what we do!

                *************************************************************************************


                > To: probe_control@yahoogroups.com
                > From: actingman6@...
                > Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 11:20:33 -0500
                > Subject: Re: [probe_control] metal and moulds
                >
                > Yes, but what was the content of solder back in late 1971 when they were
                > in preproduction for the pilot?
                >
                > Also, there was a different level of detail given to television
                > props/miniatures back then due to what the final resolution would be on
                > home screens. They did not worry about details past a certain point when
                > it was headed for the small screen.
                >
                > This http://probecontrol.artshost.com/Episodes/imagepages/Probe009.html is
                > a screen grab from the Unicorn VHS release of the pilot. It was sourced
                > from a good print, the tape was at SP from a professional duplication
                > house, and that was the resolution they would have expected for the viewer
                > at home. And I tend to think the picture quality on that VHS was better
                > than what most people were getting at home.
                >
                > It is also possible that those solder points were mid or late season
                > repairs to the hero.
                >
                >
                > On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 5:39 AM, gf willmetts
                > <gfwillmetts-2@...>wrote:
                >
                > >
                > >
                > > Hello
                > > Dino
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Unless things are different stateside, normal
                > > solder doesn�t actually contain tin but aluminum or zinc as the key
                > > metals. You�re
                > > hardly likely to solder at the front of a hero gadget cos it would be seen
                > > in
                > > close up when filmed. Mike S would probably explain more from the way he
                > > built
                > > his replicas done most of the work from the back or more likely make that
                > > particular part in a mould.
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Geoff
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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