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Prisoner and Gemini

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  • Geoff Willmetts
    Hello John Re: Prisoner. Which part do you object to?? The continuity or the solution?? Try this link. A lot of my material can be found where I work:-
    Message 1 of 28 , Apr 1, 2012
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      Hello John



      Re:
      Prisoner. Which part do you object to?? The continuity or the solution??



      Try
      this link. A lot of my material can be found where I work:-



      http://www.sfcrowsnest.com/articles/features/2002/The-Prisoner---Confined-5672.php



      I�ve
      written one other article on the original Prisoner and a review of that
      terrible 2010 version but the above from 2002 is the one.



      Hello Dino



      That
      book I used was quite comprehensive for TV movies for that period so it might
      reduce the are where you look. �Gemini Man� had a ninety minute pilot and later
      after the series was cancelled, had four of its stories turned into two ninety
      minute TV movies � I recorded those off the TV but they don�t include anything
      you�re describing.



      Don�t
      forget, you�re asking for a character that didn�t just turn invisible but
      became a phantom as well. That�s an unusual combination. It wouldn�t have been
      based off any of the super-hero comics.



      Your
      DVR isn�t really a DVD recorder, just a digital box with a hard drive. Can you
      give me a make and serial number so I can see if there�s a picture of it on the
      Net. That USB port might be your salvation but don�t forget the order of
      things. Computer on first and then digital box.



      Geoff



      ********* GF Willmetts ****************************
      Commissioning Editor: http://www.sfcrowsnest.co.uk or http://www.computercrowsnest.co.uk
      THE SCIENCE FICTION AND FANTASY MAGAZINE THE E-BOOK PUBLISHER THAT TRIES HARDER
      Between 42-48 million hits a month!!!


      WE DON�T CHOOSE OUR RANK POSITIONS, OTHERS PUT US THERE:-

      AOL AOL ranks SFcrowsnest #1 most popular SFF site on the Internet http://search.aol.com/aolcom/browse?id=906&source=subcats Yahoo Yahoo ranks SFcrowsnest #4 most popular SFF site on the Internet http://dir.yahoo.com/Entertainment/Genres/Science_Fiction_and_Fantasy/ DMOZ DMOZ ranks SFcrowsnest #1 most popular SFF site on the Internet http://dmoz.org/Arts/Literature/Genres/Science_Fiction/ Google Google ranks SFcrowsnest #2 most popular SFF site on the Internet http://directory.google.com/Top/Arts/Genres/Science_Fiction_and_Fantasy/

      ***************************************************


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • John
      The implication of continuity. There is a great Benny Hill sketch where he is playing a French film maker. The interviewer says he was wowed by the sudden use
      Message 2 of 28 , Apr 1, 2012
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        The implication of continuity.

        There is a great Benny Hill sketch where he is playing a French film
        maker. The interviewer says he was wowed by the sudden use of black and
        white towards the end of the movie to show the desperation in men's souls
        (or something like that.) The film maker replies that wasn't it at all.
        They ran out of color film, had no money to buy more and so used some B/W
        they had.

        The interviewer says he was moved by how the director gave the leading lady
        a lisp showing how each of us has our imperfections. Benny says he did not
        give it to her...she already had it. The interviewer says he is impressed
        by how much trouble the director went to to find an actress who had a
        lisp. Benny says he did not find her, the producer found her...in his bed.

        The interviewer says he loved how at the end of the movie a dog wanders
        into the scene showing ordinary life going on. Benny says he has no idea
        where that dog came from, that it just wandered on to the set and into the
        shot. He would like to get his hands on that dog "he raised his leg on the
        camera."

        That comedy sketch demonstrates how uncomfortable I feel when people start
        interpreting far and wide meanings into stuff. It can be a fun exercise,
        but it also can be pointless in some cases, and I have always felt The
        Prisoner is one of those cases.

        The original plan was for a set of 13 episodes, a break, then a second set
        of 13 for the first year (Sir Lew's desire to sell to CBS.) McGoohan goes
        to America during the break to make Ice Station Zebra (where I have always
        suspected McGoohan was biting his tongue the whole time) where he plays
        little more than a sinister version of John Drake. McGoohan is doing the
        movie because he is way over budget on the Prisoner and needs the money.

        Suddenly, Grade pulls the plug on the series. Four more episodes and that
        is it. Production is to resume sooner than scheduled, so they have to
        assemble a new crew, cause the regulars got other jobs for the series
        break. McGoohan has to stay in America, but another Prisoner episode has
        to be produced. Thus, a story about body changing where McGoohan can be
        absent for most of it.

        With all that history, I cannot give serious credence to any continuity
        suggestions about this show. And even more so with this episode, since it
        was a last minute solution to a major problem. Also, McGoohan made massive
        changes to the episode when he returned, so he was never really happy with
        it. And, there is absolutely nothing in the series to suggest that his
        resignation came right after he saw Seltzman safely on his way.

        Oh, and let's consider Once Upon A Time. This episode was made 6th in
        production order. It was was intended to run as the last of the first
        13...a cliff-hanger. Now, with the show ending for good, the episode's
        ending ("What do you desire?" "Number One." "I'll take you.") suddenly
        looked like a good penultimate episode. So I am not going to read THAT much
        continuity meaning into an episode that was originally produced to be a
        mid-season cliff-hanger.

        It was amazing to me when I saw that 1984 (?) tv interview with McGoohan
        where he admitted he had no idea how to end the show, and even told Lew
        Grade that fact. I can't posses that knowledge and then suddenly start
        assigning meanings where there just weren't any. McGoohan liked to play
        hard and fast with fact and fiction when it came to The Prisoner, and one
        time he said that Number 6 wasn't necessarily a secret agent...that maybe
        he may have been a research scientist. Now I think McGoohan was just being
        full of it, but still, I am not going to be the interviewer in the Benny
        sketch insisting on seeing meaning everywhere (I only raise that because I
        remember you mentioning his job in your linked article.)

        McGoohan was left standing, so he got his allegorical ending. Georg
        Markstein, who had so much involvement in the creation and the first 13
        episodes, wanted to see an ending where P had actually developed the idea
        for a village, and when he learned that the plan had been implemented, he
        resigned hoping he would get taken there so he could see what was going on
        and do something about it.

        Since Markstein was the story editor on the first 13, somebody could just
        as easily generate theories with bits and pieces of the first 13 episodes
        to show continuity leading to Markstein's ending. But I will pass on that
        as well.


        On Sun, Apr 1, 2012 at 6:54 AM, Geoff Willmetts <gfwillmetts@...>wrote:

        >
        >
        >
        > Hello John
        >
        >
        >
        > Re:
        > Prisoner. Which part do you object to?? The continuity or the solution??
        >
        >
        >
        > Try
        > this link. A lot of my material can be found where I work:-
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > http://www.sfcrowsnest.com/articles/features/2002/The-Prisoner---Confined-5672.php
        >
        >
        >
        > I�ve
        > written one other article on the original Prisoner and a review of that
        > terrible 2010 version but the above from 2002 is the one.
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • dghprobe3
        ... Thanks for the info on The Prisoner, I never knew the backstage story of why they made that episode without McGoohan. There were times during the run of
        Message 3 of 28 , Apr 1, 2012
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          --- In probe_control, actingman6 wrote:
          >
          > ...McGoohan has to stay in America, but another Prisoner
          > episode has to be produced. Thus, a story about body
          > changing where McGoohan can be absent for most of it...

          -----

          Thanks for the info on The Prisoner, I never knew the backstage story of why they made that episode without McGoohan.

          There were times during the run of "Perry Mason" when Raymond Burr had to have surgery and they went with guest lawyers such as Bette Davis, Hugh O'Brian, Michael Rennie, and others.

          There were a couple of Voyage episodes where Richard Basehart took ill, and Gary Merrill took his place (in "The Menfish").

          I'm sure there are other examples. I don't know whether Dick Sargent replacing Dick York on Bewitched is exactly the same thing as that was a permanent replacement situation. I'm talking about situations where a star takes ill or something and someone else fills in for an episode or two.
        • dghprobe3
          ... Found more info on the above. Actually, Basehart s illness affected three second season Voyage episodes. In The Monster s Web, Basehart appears in
          Message 4 of 28 , Apr 1, 2012
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            > There were a couple of Voyage episodes where Richard
            > Basehart took ill, and Gary Merrill took his place
            > (in "The Menfish").
            -------------

            Found more info on the above. Actually, Basehart's illness affected three second season Voyage episodes.

            In "The Monster's Web," Basehart appears in portions of the episode, but fell ill during filming. His disappearance can be noted if you are looking for it. Reportedly, he only did a couple of scenes in the Flying Sub before falling ill, and they had to use voiceovers, other existing footage, and his stunt double in order to cover for his absence. He does not appear in the climax.

            In "The Menfish," he was replaced by Gary Merrill.

            In "The Mechanical Man," the script was rewritten to reflect Basehart's absence. A character named "Bill Balter" was included in the script. Some note that this was an inside joke reflecting the name of one of the writers, Allan Balter.

            http://www.iann.net/voyage/episodes/season_2.htm

            http://books.google.com/books?id=Gq-uf3wB-TcC&pg=PA72&lpg=PA72&dq=%22Richard+Basehart%22+%22The+Menfish%22&source=bl&ots=zyv5jFti_N&sig=2aSOzSXwh98Mwg-wtl2k7s-eH4k&hl=en&sa=X&ei=R9B4T-KcN8vptgebmZz8Dg&ved=0CDoQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=%22Richard%20Basehart%22%20%22The%20Menfish%22&f=false
          • John
            Yes...the last minute work around on Monster s Web had the unusual event of guest star Peter Mark Richman being the bad guy in some scenes, and the good guy in
            Message 5 of 28 , Apr 1, 2012
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              Yes...the last minute work around on Monster's Web had the unusual event of
              guest star Peter Mark Richman being the bad guy in some scenes, and the
              good guy in other scenes. I can't say I know this for a fact, but my take
              is they simply gave him Basehart's stuff which resulted in the "split
              personality."

              So it is not just architecture you have to try and reconcile on that show.

              On Sun, Apr 1, 2012 at 6:17 PM, dghprobe3 <dghprobe3@...> wrote:

              > **
              >
              >
              > > There were a couple of Voyage episodes where Richard
              > > Basehart took ill, and Gary Merrill took his place
              > > (in "The Menfish").
              > -------------
              >
              > Found more info on the above. Actually, Basehart's illness affected three
              > second season Voyage episodes.
              >
              > In "The Monster's Web," Basehart appears in portions of the episode, but
              > fell ill during filming. His disappearance can be noted if you are looking
              > for it. Reportedly, he only did a couple of scenes in the Flying Sub before
              > falling ill, and they had to use voiceovers, other existing footage, and
              > his stunt double in order to cover for his absence. He does not appear in
              > the climax.
              >
              > In "The Menfish," he was replaced by Gary Merrill.
              >
              > In "The Mechanical Man," the script was rewritten to reflect Basehart's
              > absence. A character named "Bill Balter" was included in the script. Some
              > note that this was an inside joke reflecting the name of one of the
              > writers, Allan Balter.
              >
              > http://www.iann.net/voyage/episodes/season_2.htm
              >
              >
              > http://books.google.com/books?id=Gq-uf3wB-TcC&pg=PA72&lpg=PA72&dq=%22Richard+Basehart%22+%22The+Menfish%22&source=bl&ots=zyv5jFti_N&sig=2aSOzSXwh98Mwg-wtl2k7s-eH4k&hl=en&sa=X&ei=R9B4T-KcN8vptgebmZz8Dg&ved=0CDoQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=%22Richard%20Basehart%22%20%22The%20Menfish%22&f=false
              >


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • LambuLambu@aol.com
              Geoff, Yeah, I know the movie I m looking for isn t related to Gemini Man . It was a one off - possibly a pilot that didn t sell. I doubt it was based on any
              Message 6 of 28 , Apr 1, 2012
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                Geoff,


                Yeah, I know the movie I'm looking for isn't related to 'Gemini Man'. It was a one off - possibly a pilot that didn't sell. I doubt it was based on any super-hero comic. If it wasn't listed in your book, it's possible it wasn't a US production, but only had a lead character who was American, sort of like 'The Liquidator'; with the exception of Jill St. John every other cast member was British, Australian (including the lead, Boysie, who was supposed to be an American), or from other countries. In fact 'The Liquidator' was a British film, so I guess it's possible the movie I'm trying to locate the title of could also be a British production?


                And I did find a USB port when I went looking for the serial number on my cable DVR box. Yay! Now all I have to do is pull the manual to see how best to get recorded things off of it. The little jump drives seem to be universal - I can take things from my PC to my Mac and vice-versa with no trouble, so maybe the same will hold for the DVR. (The manual will probably say how to use the USB port.)


                In the meantime, I'll keep on the lookout for that obscure movie. And should I happen to find it I'll let everyone know what the title is.


                Dino.


                -----Original Message-----
                From: Geoff Willmetts <gfwillmetts@...>
                To: chat search <probe_control@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Sun, Apr 1, 2012 6:54 am
                Subject: [probe_control] Prisoner and Gemini


                Hello Dino

                That
                book I used was quite comprehensive for TV movies for that period so it might
                reduce the are where you look. �Gemini Man� had a ninety minute pilot and later
                after the series was cancelled, had four of its stories turned into two ninety
                minute TV movies � I recorded those off the TV but they don�t include anything
                you�re describing.

                Don�t
                forget, you�re asking for a character that didn�t just turn invisible but
                became a phantom as well. That�s an unusual combination. It wouldn�t have been
                based off any of the super-hero comics.

                Your
                DVR isn�t really a DVD recorder, just a digital box with a hard drive. Can you
                give me a make and serial number so I can see if there�s a picture of it on the
                Net. That USB port might be your salvation but don�t forget the order of
                things. Computer on first and then digital box.

                Geoff





                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • dghprobe3
                ... It s been some time since I ve seen that particular Voyage episode, so I googled a bit and found this: In The Monster s Web (featuring a lively and
                Message 7 of 28 , Apr 1, 2012
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                  --- In probe_control, actingman6 wrote:
                  > ...I can't say I know this for a fact, but my take
                  > is they simply gave [Richman] Basehart's stuff
                  > which resulted in the "split personality"...
                  -------------------------

                  It's been some time since I've seen that particular Voyage episode, so I googled a bit and found this:

                  "In "The Monster's Web" (featuring a lively and hairy giant sea spider) Basehart's character is in some scenes, conspicuously absent in others, and badly doubled here and there by a stand-in wrapped in bandages. The show must have driven guest star Peter Mark Richman crazy: with Basehart M.I.A., it looks like Richman's part was beefed up, with the familiar character actor taking over several of Basehart's scenes. This would be fine except Basehart's Nelson is cautious and heroic, while Richman's is supposed to be reckless and obsessive, so in the final cut of the show Richman's character comes off hopelessly schizophrenic..."
                  http://www.dvdtalk.com/reviews/26792/voyage-to-the-bottom-of-sea-season-two-volume-two/

                  What comes to mind is the Star Trek TOS episode, "The Alternative Factor." John Drew Barrymore was originally cast as Lazarus, but on the morning filming began he was nowhere to be found. The part had to be recast in a hurry with Robert Brown. We don't know for sure that there are two different Lazari until somewhat deep into the episode, so there is a seeming schizophrenia at first. However, the only notable difference between the two is a bandage on the head of one of them. Even with the bandage, it is hard to tell who is the good one and who is the bad one. Apparently the episode was filmed in a rush and there wasn't time to work the scenes out better.

                  More on Voyage: The same link above also reports that "the third show without Basehart [The Mechanical Man] rearranged dialogue so that Hedison more or less got Nelson's part while Dowdell reads lines originally intended for Capt. Crane..."
                • John
                  Is the film your looking for Sitting Target(1972)? John ... From: LambuLambu@aol.com Date: 4/1/2012 7:40:00 PM To: probe_control@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re:
                  Message 8 of 28 , Apr 1, 2012
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                    Is the film your looking for Sitting Target(1972)?

                    John




                    -------Original Message-------

                    From: LambuLambu@...
                    Date: 4/1/2012 7:40:00 PM
                    To: probe_control@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [probe_control] Prisoner and Gemini


                    Geoff,

                    Yeah, I know the movie I'm looking for isn't related to 'Gemini Man'. It was
                    a one off - possibly a pilot that didn't sell. I doubt it was based on any
                    super-hero comic. If it wasn't listed in your book, it's possible it wasn't
                    a US production, but only had a lead character who was American, sort of
                    like 'The Liquidator'; with the exception of Jill St. John every other cast
                    member was British, Australian (including the lead, Boysie, who was supposed
                    to be an American), or from other countries. In fact 'The Liquidator' was a
                    British film, so I guess it's possible the movie I'm trying to locate the
                    title of could also be a British production?

                    And I did find a USB port when I went looking for the serial number on my
                    cable DVR box. Yay! Now all I have to do is pull the manual to see how best
                    to get recorded things off of it. The little jump drives seem to be
                    universal - I can take things from my PC to my Mac and vice-versa with no
                    trouble, so maybe the same will hold for the DVR. (The manual will probably
                    say how to use the USB port.)

                    In the meantime, I'll keep on the lookout for that obscure movie. And should
                    I happen to find it I'll let everyone know what the title is.

                    Dino.

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: Geoff Willmetts <gfwillmetts@...>
                    To: chat search <probe_control@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Sun, Apr 1, 2012 6:54 am
                    Subject: [probe_control] Prisoner and Gemini

                    Hello Dino

                    That
                    book I used was quite comprehensive for TV movies for that period so it
                    might
                    reduce the are where you look. �Gemini Man� had a ninety minute pilot and
                    later
                    after the series was cancelled, had four of its stories turned into two
                    ninety
                    minute TV movies � I recorded those off the TV but they don�t include
                    anything
                    you�re describing.

                    Don�t
                    forget, you�re asking for a character that didn�t just turn invisible but
                    became a phantom as well. That�s an unusual combination. It wouldn�t have
                    been
                    based off any of the super-hero comics.

                    Your
                    DVR isn�t really a DVD recorder, just a digital box with a hard drive. Can
                    you
                    give me a make and serial number so I can see if there�s a picture of it on
                    the
                    Net. That USB port might be your salvation but don�t forget the order of
                    things. Computer on first and then digital box.

                    Geoff

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • LambuLambu@aol.com
                    This brings back a memory that I can only label as Voyage meets ST: Voyager . Back in December 1996 (it was around the middle of the month) I made a visit
                    Message 9 of 28 , Apr 1, 2012
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                      This brings back a memory that I can only label as "'Voyage' meets 'ST: Voyager'." Back in December 1996 (it was around the middle of the month) I made a visit to one of our Cutters that was based out of L.A. for to conduct some underway training, and the crafty person that I am, I managed to talk my boss into letting me go out a few days before the Cutter sailed so I could familiarize myself with this particular Cutter class. I'd been aboard before, but never while underway where I'd have to live aboard and know my way around in a total blackout. This only took one day of learning my way around, so with two days left, I called my friends at Paramount and the following day they swung by the base and brought me with them to the studio.


                      During this particular hectic visit, they were filming one of the 'Voyager' episodes (I forget the title of it, but it was the one where the Doctor experiments with his programming, adding personalities from various literary people to it. Things go a little off with his program and he develops an avid, passion for Kes and jealousy to go with it.) Anyway, the friend I spent the day with was the 'Voyager' script editor and she had her hands full. This was the day that Robert Beltran (Chakotay) was out with the flu, and Robert Duncan McNeill (Paris) was out with Chicken Pox. (Adult Chicken Pox - been there: very painful!) Paramount is caring (though a little untrusting) and sent a doctor to their houses, both to check up on them to make sure they really were sick, and to treat them on Paramount's dime. (Niceness, in a left-handed sort of way.)


                      So with those two actors out, their lines were being re-written for Tim Russ (Tuvok). This, as my friend found out, is much harder than one would think, especially when it came to Paris' lines. Tuvok's "Vulcan" didn't speak as the young Paris would, so those lines needed to be re-written in "Vulcan-speak". Chakotay's lines were a little easier to transcribe.


                      Even with all of that hustle and bustle I still got a nice tour of the sets, though. I even got to meet Tim Russ very briefly during a dress rehearsal. My friend and I crept into the sound stage where I got to see one of the bar scenes on the planet being rehearsed. Tim Russ was every bit the Vulcan... until the director yelled, "Cut! Great! Take ten and we'll go for a take!" Then Russ melted into someone who looked like he'd been awake for a week. This was already 7 PM and they'd been at it since 4 AM, with Russ having to learn all of his new lines on-the-fly.


                      So I'm guessing this sort of thing can happen often in the TV series business, although these days, I think by witnessing first-hand how 'Voyager' handled the re-writes for Tuvok, a little more care is taken when this crisis arises. (As a side note to this, some here may know that Genevieve Bujold (Coma) was originally cast in the role of CAPT Janeway, but after the first few days of filming quit, saying she much more preferred the less stressful pace of "filmwork" to that of TV Series work, and a scramble was on to recast Janeway. (Personally, while Bujold was good in Coma, I think Kate Mulgrew was the better choice for Janeway: though I would really like to see the footage for comparison.)


                      But back in the '60s (especially with Irwin Allan shows, which were known to be strewn with some dialogue discontinuity), I can just see someone by hand-drawing a line through NELSON in the script and writing in MERILL or BALTER or whoever the character's name was in there instead. (And probably did depending on how much time they had for re-writes, or how much time Allan gave them to do it.)


                      Dino.


                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: dghprobe3 <dghprobe3@...>
                      To: probe_control <probe_control@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:43 pm
                      Subject: [probe_control] Re: Illness at the Bottom of the Sea




                      What comes to mind is the Star Trek TOS episode, "The Alternative Factor." John Drew Barrymore was originally cast as Lazarus, but on the morning filming began he was nowhere to be found. The part had to be recast in a hurry with Robert Brown. We don't know for sure that there are two different Lazari until somewhat deep into the episode, so there is a seeming schizophrenia at first. However, the only notable difference between the two is a bandage on the head of one of them. Even with the bandage, it is hard to tell who is the good one and who is the bad one. Apparently the episode was filmed in a rush and there wasn't time to work the scenes out better.

                      More on Voyage: The same link above also reports that "the third show without Basehart [The Mechanical Man] rearranged dialogue so that Hedison more or less got Nelson's part while Dowdell reads lines originally intended for Capt. Crane..."






                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • LambuLambu@aol.com
                      Just read the review and plot for this one and sadly, no. This is definitely not it. The movie I saw had a far lighter tone (about that of The Liquidator -
                      Message 10 of 28 , Apr 1, 2012
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                        Just read the review and plot for this one and sadly, no. This is definitely not it. The movie I saw had a far lighter tone (about that of "The Liquidator" - not as light-hearted as a Dean Martin 'Matt Helm' film, but a little more so than a Bond film) and as far as I can remember had nothing to do with the main character trying to kill his wife for having an affair.


                        Remember, the main character if the movie I'm looking for got an invisibility ring from a very old man sharing his prison cell. The ring turns him invisible while he's in front of a firing squad and about to be executed, and sometime after this helps him escape, ends up working for a government agency because of the ability that ring gives him (though I can't remember how the agency learns that he has the ring).


                        Thanks for trying, though!


                        Dino.


                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: John <videoking@...>
                        To: probe_control <probe_control@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:53 pm
                        Subject: Re: [probe_control] Prisoner and Gemini





                        Is the film your looking for Sitting Target(1972)?

                        John

                        -------Original Message-------

                        From: LambuLambu@...
                        Date: 4/1/2012 7:40:00 PM
                        To: probe_control@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [probe_control] Prisoner and Gemini


                        Geoff,

                        Yeah, I know the movie I'm looking for isn't related to 'Gemini Man'. It was
                        a one off - possibly a pilot that didn't sell. I doubt it was based on any
                        super-hero comic. If it wasn't listed in your book, it's possible it wasn't
                        a US production, but only had a lead character who was American, sort of
                        like 'The Liquidator'; with the exception of Jill St. John every other cast
                        member was British, Australian (including the lead, Boysie, who was supposed
                        to be an American), or from other countries. In fact 'The Liquidator' was a
                        British film, so I guess it's possible the movie I'm trying to locate the
                        title of could also be a British production?

                        And I did find a USB port when I went looking for the serial number on my
                        cable DVR box. Yay! Now all I have to do is pull the manual to see how best
                        to get recorded things off of it. The little jump drives seem to be
                        universal - I can take things from my PC to my Mac and vice-versa with no
                        trouble, so maybe the same will hold for the DVR. (The manual will probably
                        say how to use the USB port.)

                        In the meantime, I'll keep on the lookout for that obscure movie. And should
                        I happen to find it I'll let everyone know what the title is.

                        Dino.







                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • John
                        And you re absolutely sure that Jill St. John was in the film? John ... From: LambuLambu@aol.com Date: 4/2/2012 12:47:19 AM To: probe_control@yahoogroups.com
                        Message 11 of 28 , Apr 2, 2012
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                          And you're absolutely sure that Jill St. John was in the film?

                          John




                          -------Original Message-------

                          From: LambuLambu@...
                          Date: 4/2/2012 12:47:19 AM
                          To: probe_control@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [probe_control] Prisoner and Gemini


                          Just read the review and plot for this one and sadly, no. This is definitely
                          not it. The movie I saw had a far lighter tone (about that of "The
                          Liquidator" - not as light-hearted as a Dean Martin 'Matt Helm' film, but a
                          little more so than a Bond film) and as far as I can remember had nothing to
                          do with the main character trying to kill his wife for having an affair.

                          Remember, the main character if the movie I'm looking for got an
                          invisibility ring from a very old man sharing his prison cell. The ring
                          turns him invisible while he's in front of a firing squad and about to be
                          executed, and sometime after this helps him escape, ends up working for a
                          government agency because of the ability that ring gives him (though I can't
                          remember how the agency learns that he has the ring).

                          Thanks for trying, though!

                          Dino.

                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: John <videoking@...>
                          To: probe_control <probe_control@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:53 pm
                          Subject: Re: [probe_control] Prisoner and Gemini

                          Is the film your looking for Sitting Target(1972)?

                          John

                          -------Original Message-------

                          From: LambuLambu@...
                          Date: 4/1/2012 7:40:00 PM
                          To: probe_control@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [probe_control] Prisoner and Gemini


                          Geoff,

                          Yeah, I know the movie I'm looking for isn't related to 'Gemini Man'. It was
                          a one off - possibly a pilot that didn't sell. I doubt it was based on any
                          super-hero comic. If it wasn't listed in your book, it's possible it wasn't
                          a US production, but only had a lead character who was American, sort of
                          like 'The Liquidator'; with the exception of Jill St. John every other cast
                          member was British, Australian (including the lead, Boysie, who was supposed
                          to be an American), or from other countries. In fact 'The Liquidator' was a
                          British film, so I guess it's possible the movie I'm trying to locate the
                          title of could also be a British production?

                          And I did find a USB port when I went looking for the serial number on my
                          cable DVR box. Yay! Now all I have to do is pull the manual to see how best
                          to get recorded things off of it. The little jump drives seem to be
                          universal - I can take things from my PC to my Mac and vice-versa with no
                          trouble, so maybe the same will hold for the DVR. (The manual will probably
                          say how to use the USB port.)

                          In the meantime, I'll keep on the lookout for that obscure movie. And should
                          I happen to find it I'll let everyone know what the title is.

                          Dino.

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Robert McNay
                          Dino, FWIW, I have a very, very vague recollection of the movie you are talking about. I even seem to remember a scene where the invisibility wears off and
                          Message 12 of 28 , Apr 2, 2012
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Dino,

                            FWIW, I have a very, very vague recollection of the movie you are talking about.
                            I even seem to remember a scene where the invisibility wears off and he's caught
                            with "his pants down" behind a chair in the corner of a room.


                            Please, don't ask why I remember that scene, I have no idea.

                            Rob McNay
                            Chicago IL



                            ----- Original Message ----
                            From: "LambuLambu@..." <LambuLambu@...>
                            To: probe_control@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Sun, April 1, 2012 11:47:10 PM
                            Subject: Re: [probe_control] Prisoner and Gemini

                            Just read the review and plot for this one and sadly, no. This is definitely not
                            it. The movie I saw had a far lighter tone (about that of "The Liquidator" - not
                            as light-hearted as a Dean Martin 'Matt Helm' film, but a little more so than a
                            Bond film) and as far as I can remember had nothing to do with the main
                            character trying to kill his wife for having an affair.


                            Remember, the main character if the movie I'm looking for got an invisibility
                            ring from a very old man sharing his prison cell. The ring turns him invisible
                            while he's in front of a firing squad and about to be executed, and sometime
                            after this helps him escape, ends up working for a government agency because of
                            the ability that ring gives him (though I can't remember how the agency learns
                            that he has the ring).


                            Thanks for trying, though!


                            Dino.


                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: John <videoking@...>
                            To: probe_control <probe_control@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:53 pm
                            Subject: Re: [probe_control] Prisoner and Gemini


                             
                               
                                             
                            Is the film your looking for Sitting Target(1972)?

                            John
                               
                            -------Original Message-------

                            From: LambuLambu@...
                            Date: 4/1/2012 7:40:00 PM
                            To: probe_control@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: Re: [probe_control] Prisoner and Gemini

                             
                            Geoff,

                            Yeah, I know the movie I'm looking for isn't related to 'Gemini Man'. It was
                            a one off - possibly a pilot that didn't sell. I doubt it was based on any
                            super-hero comic. If it wasn't listed in your book, it's possible it wasn't
                            a US production, but only had a lead character who was American, sort of
                            like 'The Liquidator'; with the exception of Jill St. John every other cast
                            member was British, Australian (including the lead, Boysie, who was supposed
                            to be an American), or from other countries. In fact 'The Liquidator' was a
                            British film, so I guess it's possible the movie I'm trying to locate the
                            title of could also be a British production?

                            And I did find a USB port when I went looking for the serial number on my
                            cable DVR box. Yay! Now all I have to do is pull the manual to see how best
                            to get recorded things off of it. The little jump drives seem to be
                            universal - I can take things from my PC to my Mac and vice-versa with no
                            trouble, so maybe the same will hold for the DVR. (The manual will probably
                            say how to use the USB port.)

                            In the meantime, I'll keep on the lookout for that obscure movie. And should
                            I happen to find it I'll let everyone know what the title is.

                            Dino.


                             




                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                            ------------------------------------

                            Yahoo! Groups Links
                          • John
                            Easily done:
                            Message 13 of 28 , Apr 2, 2012
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Easily done:

                              http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=star+trek+voyager+genevieve+bujold&oq=voyager+Genevieve+Bujold&aq=0m&aqi=g-m1&aql=&gs_l=youtube-psuggest.1.0.0i5.29658l32841l0l35142l9l9l0l0l0l0l432l2330l2j2j1j1j3l9l0
                              .

                              On Mon, Apr 2, 2012 at 12:32 AM, <LambuLambu@...> wrote:

                              > **
                              >
                              >
                              > (As a side note to this, some here may know that Genevieve Bujold (Coma)
                              > was originally cast in the role of CAPT Janeway, but after the first few
                              > days of filming quit, saying she much more preferred the less stressful
                              > pace of "filmwork" to that of TV Series work, and a scramble was on to
                              > recast Janeway. (Personally, while Bujold was good in Coma, I think Kate
                              > Mulgrew was the better choice for Janeway: though I would really like to
                              > see the footage for comparison.)
                              >


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • John
                              Man does she suck in the role! John ... From: John Date: 04/02/12 19:45:49 To: probe_control@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [probe_control] Re: Illness at the
                              Message 14 of 28 , Apr 2, 2012
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Man does she suck in the role!

                                John




                                -------Original Message-------

                                From: John
                                Date: 04/02/12 19:45:49
                                To: probe_control@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: Re: [probe_control] Re: Illness at the Bottom of the Sea


                                Easily done:

                                http://www.youtube
                                com/results?search_query=star+trek+voyager+genevieve+bujold&oq=voyager+Genevi
                                ve+Bujold&aq=0m&aqi=g-m1&aql=&gs_l=youtube-psuggest.1.0.0i5
                                29658l32841l0l35142l9l9l0l0l0l0l432l2330l2j2j1j1j3l9l0
                                .

                                On Mon, Apr 2, 2012 at 12:32 AM, <LambuLambu@...> wrote:

                                > **
                                >
                                >
                                > (As a side note to this, some here may know that Genevieve Bujold (Coma)
                                > was originally cast in the role of CAPT Janeway, but after the first few
                                > days of filming quit, saying she much more preferred the less stressful
                                > pace of "filmwork" to that of TV Series work, and a scramble was on to
                                > recast Janeway. (Personally, while Bujold was good in Coma, I think Kate
                                > Mulgrew was the better choice for Janeway: though I would really like to
                                > see the footage for comparison.)
                                >

                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • John
                                What also surprises me about those two clips (Bujold vs Mulgrew 1 & 2...which are from the DVD releases) is the difference in blocking between the two. I
                                Message 15 of 28 , Apr 2, 2012
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  What also surprises me about those two clips (Bujold vs Mulgrew 1 &
                                  2...which are from the DVD releases) is the difference in blocking between
                                  the two. I realize we are only seeing master shots of Bujold, but still,
                                  the director had her standing the whole time in her quarters for that long
                                  speech about knowing the crew better?

                                  But you can see Bujold mentally going down the page in her mind trying to
                                  get all her lines. I have done extra work on movies and TV shows, and it
                                  is amazing the difference when you are shooting two minutes of footage a
                                  day vs 10 minutes a day. Some folks just need or want the leisurely
                                  schedule of two minutes a day.

                                  I have never seen any of Bujold's work. Maybe others can comment.

                                  On Mon, Apr 2, 2012 at 8:20 PM, John <videoking@...> wrote:

                                  > **
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Man does she suck in the role!
                                  >
                                  > John
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > -------Original Message-------
                                  >
                                  > From: John
                                  > Date: 04/02/12 19:45:49
                                  > To: probe_control@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Subject: Re: [probe_control] Re: Illness at the Bottom of the Sea
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Easily done:
                                  >
                                  > http://www.youtube
                                  >
                                  > com/results?search_query=star+trek+voyager+genevieve+bujold&oq=voyager+Genevi
                                  > ve+Bujold&aq=0m&aqi=g-m1&aql=&gs_l=youtube-psuggest.1.0.0i5
                                  > 29658l32841l0l35142l9l9l0l0l0l0l432l2330l2j2j1j1j3l9l0
                                  > .
                                  >
                                  > On Mon, Apr 2, 2012 at 12:32 AM, <LambuLambu@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > > **
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > (As a side note to this, some here may know that Genevieve Bujold (Coma)
                                  > > was originally cast in the role of CAPT Janeway, but after the first few
                                  > > days of filming quit, saying she much more preferred the less stressful
                                  > > pace of "filmwork" to that of TV Series work, and a scramble was on to
                                  > > recast Janeway. (Personally, while Bujold was good in Coma, I think Kate
                                  > > Mulgrew was the better choice for Janeway: though I would really like to
                                  > > see the footage for comparison.)
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >


                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • LambuLambu@aol.com
                                  John, A slight misunderstanding... I meant aside from Jill St. John, the rest of the cast of The Liquidator was either British, Australian, or from several
                                  Message 16 of 28 , Apr 2, 2012
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    John,


                                    A slight misunderstanding... I meant aside from Jill St. John, the rest of the cast of "The Liquidator" was either British, Australian, or from several other countries. She was the only American in that film.


                                    I have no idea who was in the other film I'm still on the hunt for, but once I find it I will let everyone know.


                                    Dino.


                                    -----Original Message-----
                                    From: John <videoking@...>
                                    To: probe_control <probe_control@yahoogroups.com>
                                    Sent: Mon, Apr 2, 2012 7:38 am
                                    Subject: Re: [probe_control] Prisoner and Gemini





                                    And you're absolutely sure that Jill St. John was in the film?

                                    John

                                    -------Original Message-------

                                    From: LambuLambu@...
                                    Date: 4/2/2012 12:47:19 AM
                                    To: probe_control@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: Re: [probe_control] Prisoner and Gemini


                                    Just read the review and plot for this one and sadly, no. This is definitely
                                    not it. The movie I saw had a far lighter tone (about that of "The
                                    Liquidator" - not as light-hearted as a Dean Martin 'Matt Helm' film, but a
                                    little more so than a Bond film) and as far as I can remember had nothing to
                                    do with the main character trying to kill his wife for having an affair.

                                    Remember, the main character if the movie I'm looking for got an
                                    invisibility ring from a very old man sharing his prison cell. The ring
                                    turns him invisible while he's in front of a firing squad and about to be
                                    executed, and sometime after this helps him escape, ends up working for a
                                    government agency because of the ability that ring gives him (though I can't
                                    remember how the agency learns that he has the ring).

                                    Thanks for trying, though!

                                    Dino.

                                    -----Original Message-----
                                    From: John <videoking@...>
                                    To: probe_control <probe_control@yahoogroups.com>
                                    Sent: Sun, Apr 1, 2012 7:53 pm
                                    Subject: Re: [probe_control] Prisoner and Gemini

                                    Is the film your looking for Sitting Target(1972)?

                                    John

                                    -------Original Message-------

                                    From: LambuLambu@...
                                    Date: 4/1/2012 7:40:00 PM
                                    To: probe_control@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: Re: [probe_control] Prisoner and Gemini


                                    Geoff,

                                    Yeah, I know the movie I'm looking for isn't related to 'Gemini Man'. It was
                                    a one off - possibly a pilot that didn't sell. I doubt it was based on any
                                    super-hero comic. If it wasn't listed in your book, it's possible it wasn't
                                    a US production, but only had a lead character who was American, sort of
                                    like 'The Liquidator'; with the exception of Jill St. John every other cast
                                    member was British, Australian (including the lead, Boysie, who was supposed
                                    to be an American), or from other countries. In fact 'The Liquidator' was a
                                    British film, so I guess it's possible the movie I'm trying to locate the
                                    title of could also be a British production?

                                    And I did find a USB port when I went looking for the serial number on my
                                    cable DVR box. Yay! Now all I have to do is pull the manual to see how best
                                    to get recorded things off of it. The little jump drives seem to be
                                    universal - I can take things from my PC to my Mac and vice-versa with no
                                    trouble, so maybe the same will hold for the DVR. (The manual will probably
                                    say how to use the USB port.)

                                    In the meantime, I'll keep on the lookout for that obscure movie. And should
                                    I happen to find it I'll let everyone know what the title is.

                                    Dino.






                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • LambuLambu@aol.com
                                    Rob, Strangely enough, I also remember that scene, and if I remember it correctly, that room was filled with crisscrossing lasers and that chair was behind
                                    Message 17 of 28 , Apr 2, 2012
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Rob,


                                      Strangely enough, I also remember that scene, and if I remember it correctly, that room was filled with crisscrossing lasers and that chair was behind them all. (And that chair was one of those "strategically-placed" items I mentioned: in the right place, positioned just right to cover any nasty bits!)


                                      Dino.


                                      -----Original Message-----
                                      From: Robert McNay <CptMatt@...>
                                      To: probe_control <probe_control@yahoogroups.com>
                                      Sent: Mon, Apr 2, 2012 8:18 am
                                      Subject: Re: [probe_control] Prisoner and Gemini





                                      Dino,

                                      FWIW, I have a very, very vague recollection of the movie you are talking about.
                                      I even seem to remember a scene where the invisibility wears off and he's caught
                                      with "his pants down" behind a chair in the corner of a room.

                                      Please, don't ask why I remember that scene, I have no idea.

                                      Rob McNay
                                      Chicago IL






                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • LambuLambu@aol.com
                                      Wow! There were also two other videos similar to this one: a Part 1 and Part 2 of Nicole Janeway vs. Kathryn Janeway . Bujold had a more sultry voice, and as
                                      Message 18 of 28 , Apr 2, 2012
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Wow! There were also two other videos similar to this one: a Part 1 and Part 2 of "Nicole Janeway vs. Kathryn Janeway". Bujold had a more sultry voice, and as I said she was great in "Coma", but as Janeway she struck me as rather 'Vulcan-like': very little emotion in her tone of voice as compared to Kate Mulgrew's portrayal.


                                        Two very different interpretations of the captain: both good in their own way, but personally after being able to compare the two, I think Mulgrew had the better portrayal.


                                        Thanks for that link, John!


                                        Dino.


                                        -----Original Message-----
                                        From: John <actingman6@...>
                                        To: probe_control <probe_control@yahoogroups.com>
                                        Sent: Mon, Apr 2, 2012 7:45 pm
                                        Subject: Re: [probe_control] Re: Illness at the Bottom of the Sea





                                        Easily done:

                                        http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=star+trek+voyager+genevieve+bujold&oq=voyager+Genevieve+Bujold&aq=0m&aqi=g-m1&aql=&gs_l=youtube-psuggest.1.0.0i5.29658l32841l0l35142l9l9l0l0l0l0l432l2330l2j2j1j1j3l9l0
                                        .

                                        On Mon, Apr 2, 2012 at 12:32 AM, <LambuLambu@...> wrote:

                                        > **
                                        >
                                        > (As a side note to this, some here may know that Genevieve Bujold (Coma)
                                        > was originally cast in the role of CAPT Janeway, but after the first few
                                        > days of filming quit, saying she much more preferred the less stressful
                                        > pace of "filmwork" to that of TV Series work, and a scramble was on to
                                        > recast Janeway. (Personally, while Bujold was good in Coma, I think Kate
                                        > Mulgrew was the better choice for Janeway: though I would really like to
                                        > see the footage for comparison.)
                                        >






                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • LambuLambu@aol.com
                                        Well, anyone who s seen her in Coma will attest to the fact that she is (or at least then was) a great actress who could - and did - put great emotion into
                                        Message 19 of 28 , Apr 2, 2012
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                                          Well, anyone who's seen her in "Coma" will attest to the fact that she is (or at least then was) a great actress who could - and did - put great emotion into that role. I know 'Voyager' was over 20 years after "Coma", and Bujold didn't look like she'd aged 20+ years, but maybe that had something to do with her lack of emotion in her portrayal. As to the director having her standing in her Ready Room for that conversation with Tuvok? Only he would know why he did that.


                                          One thing to add is how amazing it was for them to make the sets look as large as they did. After seeing the Bridge/Captain's Ready Room/Conference Room set (and yes, they are all one set just like you see it on screen), they are NOT as large as they look. The bridge was small and rather cozy-feeling even with the view screen wall rolled aside (leaving that part of the bridge open). The Ready Room and Conference Room were just as cozy. My friend said (and it was backed up by her boss, who was a really nice person) that they used wide-angle lenses on the cameras to make the bridge sets look larger, and it also exaggerated the actors' movements, so they would walk with shorter steps, making it look like they were walking farther distances, and the camera lens made it look as though they were walking normally.


                                          Hollywood magic: you've got to love it!


                                          Dino.


                                          -----Original Message-----
                                          From: John <actingman6@...>
                                          To: probe_control <probe_control@yahoogroups.com>
                                          Sent: Mon, Apr 2, 2012 8:42 pm
                                          Subject: Re: [probe_control] Re: Illness at the Bottom of the Sea


                                          What also surprises me about those two clips (Bujold vs Mulgrew 1 &
                                          2...which are from the DVD releases) is the difference in blocking between
                                          the two. I realize we are only seeing master shots of Bujold, but still,
                                          the director had her standing the whole time in her quarters for that long
                                          speech about knowing the crew better?

                                          But you can see Bujold mentally going down the page in her mind trying to
                                          get all her lines. I have done extra work on movies and TV shows, and it
                                          is amazing the difference when you are shooting two minutes of footage a
                                          day vs 10 minutes a day. Some folks just need or want the leisurely
                                          schedule of two minutes a day.

                                          I have never seen any of Bujold's work. Maybe others can comment.





                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • LambuLambu@aol.com
                                          OKAY! I finally found it! (Thank you, Turner Classic Movies archive list!) The Movie was Matchless , and you were right, Geoff; it was not a pilot for a
                                          Message 20 of 28 , Apr 3, 2012
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            OKAY! I finally found it! (Thank you, Turner Classic Movies archive list!)


                                            The Movie was "Matchless", and you were right, Geoff; it was not a pilot for a series but a theatrical film (although it would have made a great pilot for a series).


                                            From the TCM site: http://www.tcm.com/tcmdb/title/17221/Matchless/


                                            "Mistaken for a spy by the Communist Chinese, New York journalist Perry "Matchless" Liston is tortured to obtain information about a lethal chemical substance. An elderly Oriental with whom he shares a cell gives Liston a ring that, when rubbed, makes him invisible for a short period of time. With the ring's help, he escapes from a Chinese firing squad but lands in the U. S. military's torture chamber for his presumed knowledge about the same chemical. He reluctantly agrees to assist U. S. intelligence forces in recovering the formula as well as samples of the substance held by Andreanu, a sinister international gangster. Aided by agent Arabella, whom he meets in London, Liston plots to get the material out of a Munich bank, but he encounters competition from foreign agent Tipsy and American traitor Hank Norris. Eventually Liston succeeds in extracting the formula and samples by employing the magical ring. Not trusting even the U. S. military with the dangerous information, Liston throws everything into the harbor at Hamburg. Unknown to Arabella, however, Liston keeps the magic ring."


                                            There is one small clip I could find on Youtube (which sadly doesn't show much of the invisibility thing), but I think everyone here will recognize the bad guy in it:
                                            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjAajM35yl0


                                            And it does have a St. John starring in it: Howard St. John. It also stars Donald Pleasance (Blofeld in "You Only Live Twice"), Sorrell Booke (Boss Hogg from "Dukes of Hazzard"), Patrick O'Neal (he's the one who gets the ring), and Henry Silva, among others.


                                            And the good news is it's available for Instant Viewing on Netflix! (And yes; I've already added it to my Instant Queue!) If you go to this TCM link:
                                            http://www.tcm.com/tcmdb/title/17221/Matchless/user-reviews.html?view=review
                                            in the upper right corner there is a button where you can vote to have the movie released on home video. It's currently not available for that, but like with 'Search', if enough people vote, we could see it on DVD one day. (It will ask for your e-mail address when you vote, but that's just to make sure the same person doesn't keep voting again and again and again...)


                                            I'm going to bed now.


                                            Dino.



                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          • Geoff Willmetts
                                            Hello Dino Have you ever photographed, assuming you have one, your garden and without recognisable landmarks, know it was your garden?? In the viewfinder, the
                                            Message 21 of 28 , Apr 3, 2012
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              Hello Dino



                                              Have you ever photographed, assuming you
                                              have one, your garden and without recognisable landmarks, know it was your
                                              garden?? In the viewfinder, the camera isolates the amount of information your
                                              head normally takes in.



                                              I�ve seen the same thing when my town
                                              appears on TV. It appears bigger than it really is for similar reasons. It
                                              tends to make you be wary of scale with anything on TV.



                                              Geoff



                                              ********* GF Willmetts ****************************
                                              Commissioning Editor: http://www.sfcrowsnest.co.uk or http://www.computercrowsnest.co.uk
                                              THE SCIENCE FICTION AND FANTASY MAGAZINE THE E-BOOK PUBLISHER THAT TRIES HARDER
                                              Between 42-48 million hits a month!!!


                                              WE DON�T CHOOSE OUR RANK POSITIONS, OTHERS PUT US THERE:-

                                              AOL AOL ranks SFcrowsnest #1 most popular SFF site on the Internet http://search.aol.com/aolcom/browse?id=906&source=subcats Yahoo Yahoo ranks SFcrowsnest #4 most popular SFF site on the Internet http://dir.yahoo.com/Entertainment/Genres/Science_Fiction_and_Fantasy/ DMOZ DMOZ ranks SFcrowsnest #1 most popular SFF site on the Internet http://dmoz.org/Arts/Literature/Genres/Science_Fiction/ Google Google ranks SFcrowsnest #2 most popular SFF site on the Internet http://directory.google.com/Top/Arts/Genres/Science_Fiction_and_Fantasy/

                                              ***************************************************

                                              To: probe_control@yahoogroups.com
                                              From: LambuLambu@...
                                              Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2012 02:56:12 -0400
                                              Subject: Re: [probe_control] Re: Illness at the Bottom of the Sea




























                                              Well, anyone who's seen her in "Coma" will attest to the fact that she is (or at least then was) a great actress who could - and did - put great emotion into that role. I know 'Voyager' was over 20 years after "Coma", and Bujold didn't look like she'd aged 20+ years, but maybe that had something to do with her lack of emotion in her portrayal. As to the director having her standing in her Ready Room for that conversation with Tuvok? Only he would know why he did that.



                                              One thing to add is how amazing it was for them to make the sets look as large as they did. After seeing the Bridge/Captain's Ready Room/Conference Room set (and yes, they are all one set just like you see it on screen), they are NOT as large as they look. The bridge was small and rather cozy-feeling even with the view screen wall rolled aside (leaving that part of the bridge open). The Ready Room and Conference Room were just as cozy. My friend said (and it was backed up by her boss, who was a really nice person) that they used wide-angle lenses on the cameras to make the bridge sets look larger, and it also exaggerated the actors' movements, so they would walk with shorter steps, making it look like they were walking farther distances, and the camera lens made it look as though they were walking normally.



                                              Hollywood magic: you've got to love it!



                                              Dino.



                                              -----Original Message-----

                                              From: John <actingman6@...>

                                              To: probe_control <probe_control@yahoogroups.com>

                                              Sent: Mon, Apr 2, 2012 8:42 pm

                                              Subject: Re: [probe_control] Re: Illness at the Bottom of the Sea



                                              What also surprises me about those two clips (Bujold vs Mulgrew 1 &

                                              2...which are from the DVD releases) is the difference in blocking between

                                              the two. I realize we are only seeing master shots of Bujold, but still,

                                              the director had her standing the whole time in her quarters for that long

                                              speech about knowing the crew better?



                                              But you can see Bujold mentally going down the page in her mind trying to

                                              get all her lines. I have done extra work on movies and TV shows, and it

                                              is amazing the difference when you are shooting two minutes of footage a

                                              day vs 10 minutes a day. Some folks just need or want the leisurely

                                              schedule of two minutes a day.



                                              I have never seen any of Bujold's work. Maybe others can comment.



                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


















                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            • Robert McNay
                                              Actually, according to the TCM info, this is a United Artists film. Sony owns MGM, which just recently remerged with UA. Sony has an MoD program, like Warner
                                              Message 22 of 28 , Apr 3, 2012
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                                                Actually, according to the TCM info, this is a United Artists film. Sony owns
                                                MGM, which just recently remerged with UA. Sony has an MoD program, like Warner
                                                Bros. Maybe it could be submitted as a future release under that?

                                                Rob McNay
                                                Chicago IL



                                                ----- Original Message ----
                                                From: "LambuLambu@..." <LambuLambu@...>
                                                To: probe_control@yahoogroups.com
                                                Sent: Tue, April 3, 2012 2:32:31 AM
                                                Subject: [probe_control] That Elusive Invisibility Movie

                                                OKAY! I finally found it! (Thank you, Turner Classic Movies archive list!)


                                                The Movie was "Matchless", and you were right, Geoff; it was not a pilot for a
                                                series but a theatrical film (although it would have made a great pilot for a
                                                series).


                                                From the TCM site: http://www.tcm.com/tcmdb/title/17221/Matchless/


                                                "Mistaken for a spy by the Communist Chinese, New York journalist Perry
                                                "Matchless" Liston is tortured to obtain information about a lethal chemical
                                                substance. An elderly Oriental with whom he shares a cell gives Liston a ring
                                                that, when rubbed, makes him invisible for a short period of time. With the
                                                ring's help, he escapes from a Chinese firing squad but lands in the U. S.
                                                military's torture chamber for his presumed knowledge about the same chemical.
                                                He reluctantly agrees to assist U. S. intelligence forces in recovering the
                                                formula as well as samples of the substance held by Andreanu, a sinister
                                                international gangster. Aided by agent Arabella, whom he meets in London, Liston
                                                plots to get the material out of a Munich bank, but he encounters competition
                                                from foreign agent Tipsy and American traitor Hank Norris. Eventually Liston
                                                succeeds in extracting the formula and samples by employing the magical ring.
                                                Not trusting even the U. S. military with the dangerous information, Liston
                                                throws everything into the harbor at Hamburg. Unknown to Arabella, however,
                                                Liston keeps the magic ring."


                                                There is one small clip I could find on Youtube (which sadly doesn't show much
                                                of the invisibility thing), but I think everyone here will recognize the bad guy
                                                in it:
                                                http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjAajM35yl0


                                                And it does have a St. John starring in it: Howard St. John. It also stars
                                                Donald Pleasance (Blofeld in "You Only Live Twice"), Sorrell Booke (Boss Hogg
                                                from "Dukes of Hazzard"), Patrick O'Neal (he's the one who gets the ring), and
                                                Henry Silva, among others.


                                                And the good news is it's available for Instant Viewing on Netflix! (And yes;
                                                I've already added it to my Instant Queue!) If you go to this TCM link:
                                                http://www.tcm.com/tcmdb/title/17221/Matchless/user-reviews.html?view=review
                                                in the upper right corner there is a button where you can vote to have the movie
                                                released on home video. It's currently not available for that, but like with
                                                'Search', if enough people vote, we could see it on DVD one day. (It will ask
                                                for your e-mail address when you vote, but that's just to make sure the same
                                                person doesn't keep voting again and again and again...)


                                                I'm going to bed now.


                                                Dino.



                                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                                                ------------------------------------

                                                Yahoo! Groups Links
                                              • LambuLambu@aol.com
                                                Geoff, I have taken photos of my garden, and various rooms in my house at times, and when you compare the photos to the actual garden or rooms, they look like
                                                Message 23 of 28 , Apr 3, 2012
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                                                  Geoff,


                                                  I have taken photos of my garden, and various rooms in my house at times, and when you compare the photos to the actual garden or rooms, they look like what were photographed.


                                                  In the 'Voyager' footage, that bridge looks hugely wide, which had to be a trick of the camera lens (focal length or something like that - I'm not a photographer so I can't explain it in detail, but I do have a friend who is and maybe she could go into the gory details). I do know that my friend at Paramount did say they used a wide-angle lens for the filming to make the bridge look larger than it was because after standing on that set and seeing it first hand, I can say it was nowhere near as large (or as wide as in the footage) as it appeared on screen. It was a small cozy space, which amazed me because after watching the show for two years by then I was expecting to see this huge area.


                                                  Personally, I would have liked to see it appear "life-sized" on screen rather than artificially enlarged by a camera lens because in person it had more of a "vessel's bridge" feel to it. I've been on large ships many times - stationed aboard and just visiting - and they all had a bridge that wasn't much larger than a 24 x 18-foot room, even the battleship USS WISCONSIN which isn't far from where I live (aircraft carriers excepted: never had the chance to visit one of them to see their bridge).


                                                  Dino.


                                                  -----Original Message-----
                                                  From: Geoff Willmetts <gfwillmetts@...>
                                                  To: chat search <probe_control@yahoogroups.com>
                                                  Sent: Tue, Apr 3, 2012 5:07 am
                                                  Subject: RE: [probe_control] Re: all in the camera

                                                  Hello Dino

                                                  Have you ever photographed, assuming you
                                                  have one, your garden and without recognisable landmarks, know it was your
                                                  garden?? In the viewfinder, the camera isolates the amount of information your
                                                  head normally takes in.

                                                  I�ve seen the same thing when my town
                                                  appears on TV. It appears bigger than it really is for similar reasons. It
                                                  tends to make you be wary of scale with anything on TV.

                                                  Geoff





                                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                • LambuLambu@aol.com
                                                  That s not a bad idea! (Time to visit the Sony site!) Dino. ... From: Robert McNay To: probe_control
                                                  Message 24 of 28 , Apr 4, 2012
                                                  • 0 Attachment
                                                    That's not a bad idea! (Time to visit the Sony site!)


                                                    Dino.


                                                    -----Original Message-----
                                                    From: Robert McNay <CptMatt@...>
                                                    To: probe_control <probe_control@yahoogroups.com>
                                                    Sent: Tue, Apr 3, 2012 4:35 pm
                                                    Subject: Re: [probe_control] That Elusive Invisibility Movie





                                                    Actually, according to the TCM info, this is a United Artists film. Sony owns
                                                    MGM, which just recently remerged with UA. Sony has an MoD program, like Warner
                                                    Bros. Maybe it could be submitted as a future release under that?

                                                    Rob McNay
                                                    Chicago IL

                                                    ----- Original Message ----
                                                    From: "LambuLambu@..." <LambuLambu@...>
                                                    To: probe_control@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Sent: Tue, April 3, 2012 2:32:31 AM
                                                    Subject: [probe_control] That Elusive Invisibility Movie

                                                    OKAY! I finally found it! (Thank you, Turner Classic Movies archive list!)

                                                    The Movie was "Matchless", and you were right, Geoff; it was not a pilot for a
                                                    series but a theatrical film (although it would have made a great pilot for a
                                                    series).

                                                    From the TCM site: http://www.tcm.com/tcmdb/title/17221/Matchless/

                                                    "Mistaken for a spy by the Communist Chinese, New York journalist Perry
                                                    "Matchless" Liston is tortured to obtain information about a lethal chemical
                                                    substance. An elderly Oriental with whom he shares a cell gives Liston a ring
                                                    that, when rubbed, makes him invisible for a short period of time. With the
                                                    ring's help, he escapes from a Chinese firing squad but lands in the U. S.
                                                    military's torture chamber for his presumed knowledge about the same chemical.
                                                    He reluctantly agrees to assist U. S. intelligence forces in recovering the
                                                    formula as well as samples of the substance held by Andreanu, a sinister
                                                    international gangster. Aided by agent Arabella, whom he meets in London, Liston
                                                    plots to get the material out of a Munich bank, but he encounters competition
                                                    from foreign agent Tipsy and American traitor Hank Norris. Eventually Liston
                                                    succeeds in extracting the formula and samples by employing the magical ring.
                                                    Not trusting even the U. S. military with the dangerous information, Liston
                                                    throws everything into the harbor at Hamburg. Unknown to Arabella, however,
                                                    Liston keeps the magic ring."

                                                    There is one small clip I could find on Youtube (which sadly doesn't show much
                                                    of the invisibility thing), but I think everyone here will recognize the bad guy
                                                    in it:
                                                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjAajM35yl0

                                                    And it does have a St. John starring in it: Howard St. John. It also stars
                                                    Donald Pleasance (Blofeld in "You Only Live Twice"), Sorrell Booke (Boss Hogg
                                                    from "Dukes of Hazzard"), Patrick O'Neal (he's the one who gets the ring), and
                                                    Henry Silva, among others.

                                                    And the good news is it's available for Instant Viewing on Netflix! (And yes;
                                                    I've already added it to my Instant Queue!) If you go to this TCM link:
                                                    http://www.tcm.com/tcmdb/title/17221/Matchless/user-reviews.html?view=review
                                                    in the upper right corner there is a button where you can vote to have the movie
                                                    released on home video. It's currently not available for that, but like with
                                                    'Search', if enough people vote, we could see it on DVD one day. (It will ask
                                                    for your e-mail address when you vote, but that's just to make sure the same
                                                    person doesn't keep voting again and again and again...)

                                                    I'm going to bed now.

                                                    Dino.






                                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                  • John
                                                    I am surprised they gave it such an illusion of being larger, because I would expect an Intrepid class ship to have a smaller bridge...a smaller everything.
                                                    Message 25 of 28 , Apr 4, 2012
                                                    • 0 Attachment
                                                      I am surprised they gave it such an illusion of being larger, because I
                                                      would expect an Intrepid class ship to have a smaller bridge...a smaller
                                                      everything.

                                                      The damn thing is small enough to land after all.

                                                      On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 2:54 AM, <LambuLambu@...> wrote:

                                                      > **
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > Geoff,
                                                      >
                                                      > I have taken photos of my garden, and various rooms in my house at times,
                                                      > and when you compare the photos to the actual garden or rooms, they look
                                                      > like what were photographed.
                                                      >
                                                      > In the 'Voyager' footage, that bridge looks hugely wide, which had to be a
                                                      > trick of the camera lens (focal length or something like that - I'm not a
                                                      > photographer so I can't explain it in detail, but I do have a friend who is
                                                      > and maybe she could go into the gory details). I do know that my friend at
                                                      > Paramount did say they used a wide-angle lens for the filming to make the
                                                      > bridge look larger than it was because after standing on that set and
                                                      > seeing it first hand, I can say it was nowhere near as large (or as wide as
                                                      > in the footage) as it appeared on screen. It was a small cozy space, which
                                                      > amazed me because after watching the show for two years by then I was
                                                      > expecting to see this huge area.
                                                      >
                                                      > Personally, I would have liked to see it appear "life-sized" on screen
                                                      > rather than artificially enlarged by a camera lens because in person it had
                                                      > more of a "vessel's bridge" feel to it. I've been on large ships many times
                                                      > - stationed aboard and just visiting - and they all had a bridge that
                                                      > wasn't much larger than a 24 x 18-foot room, even the battleship USS
                                                      > WISCONSIN which isn't far from where I live (aircraft carriers excepted:
                                                      > never had the chance to visit one of them to see their bridge).
                                                      >
                                                      > Dino.
                                                      >


                                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                    • Robert McNay
                                                      ... From: LambuLambu@aol.com LambuLambu@aol.com Personally, I would have liked to see it appear life-sized on screen rather than artificially enlarged by a
                                                      Message 26 of 28 , Apr 4, 2012
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                                                        ----- Original Message ----
                                                        From: "LambuLambu@..." LambuLambu@...

                                                        Personally, I would have liked to see it appear "life-sized" on screen rather
                                                        than artificially enlarged by a camera lens because in person it had more of a
                                                        "vessel's bridge" feel to it. I've been on large ships many times - stationed
                                                        aboard and just visiting - and they all had a bridge that wasn't much larger
                                                        than a 24 x 18-foot room, even the battleship USS WISCONSIN which isn't far from
                                                        where I live (aircraft carriers excepted: never had the chance to visit one of
                                                        them to see their bridge).
                                                        ------------------------------

                                                        You are right, but kinda wrong, too. Comparing Star Trek bridges to current
                                                        naval ships is not really fair. In operational US Navy ships, the bridge is just
                                                        that, the bridge, and nothing else. In Star Trek, the ship's bridge function as
                                                        a bridge, but also as the ship's CIC, and even Fire Control. On current Navy
                                                        vessels CIC is usually a whole other area somewhere further down in the ship's
                                                        structure.

                                                        To me, the most "realistic" bridges were the NX-01 and the 1701/1701A. They
                                                        weren't overly large, not much wasted space and pretty functional. The 1701D/E
                                                        bridges looked like damn concert halls.

                                                        Rob McNay
                                                        Chicago IL
                                                      • LambuLambu@aol.com
                                                        Yeah. They wanted VOYAGER to be a small ship. Since they kept getting bigger and bigger with each succession of ENTERPRISE, they wanted a starship that was
                                                        Message 27 of 28 , Apr 4, 2012
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                                                          Yeah. They wanted VOYAGER to be a small ship. Since they kept getting
                                                          bigger and bigger with each succession of ENTERPRISE, they wanted a starship
                                                          that was small enough to land occasionally, and have a small crew where the
                                                          members were more well-known to each other. (And they could make a filming
                                                          model nearly the same size as ENTERPRISE-D, but give it far greater details
                                                          that would be visible on screen because the "real" ship was smaller, if you
                                                          know what I mean.)

                                                          Sadly, I could only get that info from the production staff as VOYAGER
                                                          herself lived at ILM, so I never got to see her model in person.

                                                          Dino.


                                                          In a message dated 4/4/2012 10:44:29 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
                                                          actingman6@... writes:




                                                          I am surprised they gave it such an illusion of being larger, because I
                                                          would expect an Intrepid class ship to have a smaller bridge...a smaller
                                                          everything.

                                                          The damn thing is small enough to land after all.

                                                          On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 2:54 AM, <_LambuLambu@..._
                                                          (mailto:LambuLambu@...) > wrote:







                                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                        • LambuLambu@aol.com
                                                          Funny you should mention that, Rob. I ve seen the CIC on many Coast Guard Cutters (as the Electronics Chief I spent most of my time in them), and a few Navy
                                                          Message 28 of 28 , Apr 4, 2012
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                                                            Funny you should mention that, Rob. I've seen the CIC on many Coast Guard
                                                            Cutters (as the Electronics Chief I spent most of my time in them), and a
                                                            few Navy ships, and some of them look more like a starship bridge. In fact
                                                            the most accurate portrayal of a "real" ship I've seen in SF productions was
                                                            the CIC on the New 'Galactica'. Even in the Coast Guard, for the most part,
                                                            CIC does all of the navigating and radar scanning, radio comms, et al. We
                                                            have a separate Radio Room for classified comms, though. CIC calls the
                                                            shots (literally sometimes with the fire control system to aim the gun), and
                                                            the Bridge alters the course and speed accordingly. In emergencies, CIC takes
                                                            total control, the Engine Room handles speed control, a compartment in the
                                                            stern called After Steering does the course changes, and the Radio Room
                                                            handles ALL comms, not just the classified ones.

                                                            Also, have you ever seen the original model for the ENTERPRISE-D bridge
                                                            during their pre-production phase? They had photos of it in Starlog Magazine
                                                            when the official word about TNG was released. It was supposed to be,
                                                            according to the size of the little people they had in it for scale, larger than
                                                            the Main Mission set from Season 1 of 'Space: 1999'. It was supposed to
                                                            have a 2nd level balcony around the aft end (which was turned into the
                                                            platform where Worf spent most of his time), and a large, round conference table
                                                            almost in the center of the space.

                                                            The reason it turned out as "small" as it did was because the plans were so
                                                            grand that Paramount didn't have a sound stage large enough to fit the
                                                            thing as designed! (If anyone has that Starlog issue, it's all in the article,
                                                            along with a cartoon of a structure sticking out of a wall with a huge
                                                            hole knocked into it, and two guys looking at it with one saying, "Well, I
                                                            guess they got that new ENTERPRISE bridge set to fit after all!")

                                                            Dino.


                                                            In a message dated 4/4/2012 1:45:36 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
                                                            CptMatt@... writes:

                                                            You are right, but kinda wrong, too. Comparing Star Trek bridges to
                                                            current
                                                            naval ships is not really fair. In operational US Navy ships, the bridge
                                                            is just
                                                            that, the bridge, and nothing else. In Star Trek, the ship's bridge
                                                            function as
                                                            a bridge, but also as the ship's CIC, and even Fire Control. On current
                                                            Navy
                                                            vessels CIC is usually a whole other area somewhere further down in the
                                                            ship's
                                                            structure.

                                                            To me, the most "realistic" bridges were the NX-01 and the 1701/1701A.
                                                            They
                                                            weren't overly large, not much wasted space and pretty functional. The
                                                            1701D/E
                                                            bridges looked like damn concert halls.

                                                            Rob McNay
                                                            Chicago IL



                                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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