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Re: Thoughts on Rotating Leads

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  • JamesGreenidge
    ... Let s twist it around; suppose Quinn Martin, Cannon s producer, had Probe under its belt? It would ve been a superior and more well-regarded show. There s
    Message 1 of 23 , Aug 5, 2007
      > > I guess the producers were shocked to see that their triple
      > threat macho, middle aged, romantic leading men, with past hit
      > series to their names were beat in the ratings by a fat balding non-
      > leading man who played Matt Dillon on radio, Probe one true
      > enemy......FRANK CANNON!


      Let's twist it around; suppose Quinn Martin, Cannon's producer, had
      Probe under its belt?
      It would've been a superior and more well-regarded show. There's an
      extra element of
      intriguing and exciting realism when you play it straight, which is
      what Cannon did very
      well and why I found Cannon a thoroughly entertaining show. Probe was
      mostly skirting
      the high society campiness of The Man From U.N.C.L.E. to me and I
      terribly wanted it to
      work. I think QM would've delved more into the legal aspects of Probe
      technology as well
      as brought on more drama and less wine and bimbo footage. The star
      rotations I can agree
      with; too bad there was no major female or black probe; stick sharp and
      saucy Judy Pace in
      place of Doug and you would've not only killed two birds with one stone
      but highly
      distinguished the show at a time when a lot of gender/race series
      experiments were being
      tried. That's how QM got recognized and kudos for breaking the
      pretty-boy P.I. mold by
      starring fat balding guys and grey-haired geriatric guys. It's funny,
      but had the producers
      of Mannix pushed the "Intertech" detective computer support base
      gimmick in the early
      season, in combo inspiration from "The Chairman", we could've had a
      pre-Probe show of
      sorts there.

      JimWG
    • Buttercup
      I just wanted you to know that while I m mostly lurker, I m finding this discussion fascinating. And just for a one cent input (don t think MO is worth two
      Message 2 of 23 , Aug 6, 2007
        I just wanted you to know that while I'm mostly lurker, I'm finding
        this discussion fascinating. And just for a one cent input (don't
        think MO is worth two cents yet! LOL) I also agree that the series
        seems to have lost something that the original pilot had. I would
        have liked to have seen it stay more edgy and realistic. Though some
        of the eps do have that quality, there also seems to be an awful lot
        of tongue-in-cheek moments. And that TF ep...the 'Prey' one...I'm
        awful on ep names...gave me nightmares as a kid.
        Buttercup
      • actingman6@gmail.com
        Several different directions to go on this: Edgy & realistic makes me think of the last eight...or at least what the tinkerers thought they were doing. But
        Message 3 of 23 , Aug 6, 2007
          Several different directions to go on this:

          "Edgy & realistic" makes me think of the last eight...or at least what the
          tinkerers thought they were doing.

          But rereading your post, are you saying you thought the pilot was more edgy
          and realistic?

          And as a different direction for those who want to take it up, what other
          shows would you want to mention that you feel the episodes went askew from
          their pilots...or didn't? And with a long range viewpoint on it: was it
          fair to launch a series with a full blown stand-alone "movie", where the
          movie would just have more resources in time and money than episodes would
          not?

          For me it will be an interesting experiment since last night I cracked open
          the season one set of Ironside and watched the tv-movie pilot. I am curious
          what I will think when I then start watching the episodes.

          On 8/6/07, Buttercup <chbuttercup@...> wrote:
          >
          > I just wanted you to know that while I'm mostly lurker, I'm finding
          > this discussion fascinating. And just for a one cent input (don't
          > think MO is worth two cents yet! LOL) I also agree that the series
          > seems to have lost something that the original pilot had. I would
          > have liked to have seen it stay more edgy and realistic. Though some
          > of the eps do have that quality, there also seems to be an awful lot
          > of tongue-in-cheek moments. And that TF ep...the 'Prey' one...I'm
          > awful on ep names...gave me nightmares as a kid.
          > Buttercup
          >
          >
          > _
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • JamesGreenidge
          ... It can be done. You ll find that Ironside was a well put-together -- and long -- series whose shows often equalled if not surpassed the pilot in drama and
          Message 4 of 23 , Aug 6, 2007
            --- In probe_control@yahoogroups.com, actingman6@... wrote:

            > And with a long range viewpoint on it: was it
            > fair to launch a series with a full blown stand-alone "movie", where the
            > movie would just have more resources in time and money than episodes would
            > not?
            > For me it will be an interesting experiment since last night I cracked open
            > the season one set of Ironside and watched the tv-movie pilot. I am curious
            > what I will think when I then start watching the episodes.

            It can be done. You'll find that Ironside was a well put-together -- and long -- series
            whose shows often equalled if not surpassed the pilot in drama and suspense. Ditto
            Hawaii Five-O and the QM shows. It shows producers who care about their "babies" and
            stick with them. Also, try to remember when you watch Ironside for example that it helps
            to "feel" the era in which it was filmed. No home computers or cell phones to use on the
            fly -- you hunted for a phone booth (remember those?) and women and minorities were
            just then being recognized for and in major positions. This era background "flavored" your
            viewer experience when you watched the show. That's why I felt Probe kind of blew it big
            time in not taking its own concept seriously enough right on the heels of Apollo's ending
            when the tech plausibility of Probe was most receptive.

            JimWG
          • lazenbyland
            Here in the UK, this was my first experience of rotating leads. I was about eight years old when Search was shown (known as Search:Control in the UK). I was
            Message 5 of 23 , Aug 6, 2007
              Here in the UK, this was my first experience of rotating leads. I
              was about eight years old when Search was shown (known as
              Search:Control in the UK).

              I was familiar with Doug McClure from The Virginian. After playing
              Cowboys and Indians outside, it was obligatory to run indoors to
              catch The Virginian on TV.

              So when Search came along it was great to see Doug McClure in a
              contemporary setting and he was always our favourite Probe here. We
              did watch the others, but we looked forward mostly to Doug McClure.
              I haven't seen any of his episodes for over thirty years but I recal
              his character was a bit more naive than than Franciosa or O'Brien.

              The jokiness came from the Bond series with Roger Moore assuming the
              role of 007 and bringing a more jokier air.

              Interestingly enough they tried to resurrect the spy genre on TV in
              the late seventies with A Man Called Sloane with Robert Conrad in
              the lead, though in the USA you had the pilot episode, with Robert
              Logan AFTER the series. In the UK we had the pilot then they showed
              the series.

              I think the appeal of Search was that there was something cozy about
              having Probe Control feeding you information all the time.

              I think the Probe I liked least was O'Brien. Particularly in the
              pilot where he negotiates his "rate". This made his character look
              more like a mercenary.
            • Michael Beacom
              Lockwood was mercenary. He s risking his life and he s not doing it to get a good feeling. I liked the series because it was such a departure from the
              Message 6 of 23 , Aug 15, 2007
                Lockwood was mercenary. He's risking his life and he's not doing it to get a good feeling.

                I liked the series because it was such a departure from the detective shows that were on at the time. Mannix is one that comes to mind. Mannix roots around, gets knocked on the head by the badguys but never just killed, and somehow always stumbles across that one vital clue that unzips the bad guys plan.

                Basically, the same thing that Sam Spade and his ilk were doing 40 years earlier in the genre. All a private eye needed was a steely look in his eye, his 38, his faithful girl Friday, and a head of rock.

                Search changed that -- this was the way detection should be done.


                ----- Original Message -----
                From: lazenbyland
                To: probe_control@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: 8/6/2007 5:43:37 PM
                Subject: [probe_control] Re: Thoughts on Rotating Leads


                Here in the UK, this was my first experience of rotating leads. I
                was about eight years old when Search was shown (known as
                Search:Control in the UK).

                I was familiar with Doug McClure from The Virginian. After playing
                Cowboys and Indians outside, it was obligatory to run indoors to
                catch The Virginian on TV.

                So when Search came along it was great to see Doug McClure in a
                contemporary setting and he was always our favourite Probe here. We
                did watch the others, but we looked forward mostly to Doug McClure.
                I haven't seen any of his episodes for over thirty years but I recal
                his character was a bit more naive than than Franciosa or O'Brien.

                The jokiness came from the Bond series with Roger Moore assuming the
                role of 007 and bringing a more jokier air.

                Interestingly enough they tried to resurrect the spy genre on TV in
                the late seventies with A Man Called Sloane with Robert Conrad in
                the lead, though in the USA you had the pilot episode, with Robert
                Logan AFTER the series. In the UK we had the pilot then they showed
                the series.

                I think the appeal of Search was that there was something cozy about
                having Probe Control feeding you information all the time.

                I think the Probe I liked least was O'Brien. Particularly in the
                pilot where he negotiates his "rate". This made his character look
                more like a mercenary.




                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • search_fan
                ... seriously, but it was fun. I remember with pleasureone episode where he creamed his car, then barrowed 2 friends cars and creamed them. I just thought it
                Message 7 of 23 , Aug 15, 2007
                  --- In probe_control@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Beacom" <mjbeacom@...>
                  wrote:
                  > I liked Mannix. I liked the action. I guess i never took it
                  seriously, but it was fun. I remember with pleasureone episode where
                  he creamed his car, then barrowed 2 friends cars and creamed them. I
                  just thought it was fun.
                  Carol Jackson
                  > Lockwood was mercenary. He's risking his life and he's not doing it
                  to get a good feeling.
                  >
                  > I liked the series because it was such a departure from the
                  detective shows that were on at the time. Mannix is one that comes to
                  mind. Mannix roots around, gets knocked on the head by the badguys
                  but never just killed, and somehow always stumbles across that one
                  vital clue that unzips the bad guys plan.
                  >
                  > Basically, the same thing that Sam Spade and his ilk were doing 40
                  years earlier in the genre. All a private eye needed was a steely
                  look in his eye, his 38, his faithful girl Friday, and a head of rock.
                  >
                  > Search changed that -- this was the way detection should be done.
                  >
                  >
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: lazenbyland
                  > To: probe_control@yahoogroups.com
                  > Sent: 8/6/2007 5:43:37 PM
                  > Subject: [probe_control] Re: Thoughts on Rotating Leads
                  >
                  >
                  > Here in the UK, this was my first experience of rotating leads. I
                  > was about eight years old when Search was shown (known as
                  > Search:Control in the UK).
                  >
                  > I was familiar with Doug McClure from The Virginian. After playing
                  > Cowboys and Indians outside, it was obligatory to run indoors to
                  > catch The Virginian on TV.
                  >
                  > So when Search came along it was great to see Doug McClure in a
                  > contemporary setting and he was always our favourite Probe here. We
                  > did watch the others, but we looked forward mostly to Doug McClure.
                  > I haven't seen any of his episodes for over thirty years but I recal
                  > his character was a bit more naive than than Franciosa or O'Brien.
                  >
                  > The jokiness came from the Bond series with Roger Moore assuming the
                  > role of 007 and bringing a more jokier air.
                  >
                  > Interestingly enough they tried to resurrect the spy genre on TV in
                  > the late seventies with A Man Called Sloane with Robert Conrad in
                  > the lead, though in the USA you had the pilot episode, with Robert
                  > Logan AFTER the series. In the UK we had the pilot then they showed
                  > the series.
                  >
                  > I think the appeal of Search was that there was something cozy about
                  > having Probe Control feeding you information all the time.
                  >
                  > I think the Probe I liked least was O'Brien. Particularly in the
                  > pilot where he negotiates his "rate". This made his character look
                  > more like a mercenary.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                • Geoff Willmetts
                  Hello Michael As to how mercenary Lockwood was, the same could be said about World Securities in general. After all, they are a commercial organisation, paid
                  Message 8 of 23 , Aug 16, 2007
                    Hello Michael

                    As to how mercenary Lockwood was, the same could be said about World
                    Securities in general. After all, they are a commercial organisation, paid
                    to do a service. Considering how often it can result in the life and death
                    of a PROBE, I suspect in their shoes I would want to be paid well as well.
                    They are paid by results. Judging by Lockwood's fee demand, its done on a
                    case by case basis and not 10% of the finders fee.

                    Geoff




                    ********* GF Willmetts ****************************
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                  • K. A. Shipman
                    ... What is this, Banacheck????? Ken S. Lockwood Forever.
                    Message 9 of 23 , Aug 16, 2007
                      >10% of the finders fee.
                      >
                      What is this, Banacheck?????

                      Ken S.

                      Lockwood Forever.
                    • Richard D. Perez
                      VERY PUNNY! ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      Message 10 of 23 , Aug 17, 2007
                        VERY PUNNY!

                        K. A. Shipman wrote:
                        >
                        > >10% of the finders fee.
                        > >
                        > What is this, Banacheck?????
                        >
                        > Ken S.
                        >
                        > Lockwood Forever.
                        >
                        >


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • ronaldheld
                        Message 11 of 23 , Aug 17, 2007
                          ????
                          --- In probe_control@yahoogroups.com, "Richard D. Perez"
                          <richardperez@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > VERY PUNNY!
                          >
                          > K. A. Shipman wrote:
                          > >
                          > > >10% of the finders fee.
                          > > >
                          > > What is this, Banacheck?????
                          > >
                          > > Ken S.
                          > >
                          > > Lockwood Forever.
                          > >
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                        • Geoff Willmetts
                          Hello K.A. Considering that PROBE is used to locate missing things, logic says they could go the Banacek way and their agents get the 10%. They don’t so they
                          Message 12 of 23 , Aug 17, 2007
                            Hello K.A.

                            Considering that PROBE is used to locate missing things, logic says they
                            could go the Banacek way and their agents get the 10%. They don�t so they
                            are either being paid more or on a negotiable fee.

                            Geoff




                            ********* GF Willmetts ****************************
                            Commissioning Editor: http://www.sfcrowsnest.co.uk or
                            http://www.computercrowsnest.co.uk
                            THE SCIENCE FICTION AND FANTASY MAGAZINE
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                          • ronaldheld
                            Oh, I understand now. Thanks. ... logic says they ... so they ... Yahoo ranks ... http://dir.yahoo.com/Entertainment/Genres/Science_Fiction_and_Fantasy/ DMOZ
                            Message 13 of 23 , Aug 18, 2007
                              Oh, I understand now. Thanks.

                              --- In probe_control@yahoogroups.com, "Geoff Willmetts"
                              <gfwillmetts@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Hello K.A.
                              >
                              > Considering that PROBE is used to locate missing things,
                              logic says they
                              > could go the Banacek way and their agents get the 10%. They don't
                              so they
                              > are either being paid more or on a negotiable fee.
                              >
                              > Geoff
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > ********* GF Willmetts ****************************
                              > Commissioning Editor: http://www.sfcrowsnest.co.uk or
                              > http://www.computercrowsnest.co.uk
                              > THE SCIENCE FICTION AND FANTASY MAGAZINE
                              > THE E-BOOK PUBLISHER THAT TRIES HARDER
                              >
                              > WE DON'T CHOOSE OUR RANK POSITIONS, OTHERS PUT US THERE:-
                              >
                              > AOL AOL ranks SFcrowsnest #1 most popular SFF site on the Internet
                              > http://search.aol.com/aolcom/browse?id=906&source=subcats Yahoo
                              Yahoo ranks
                              > SFcrowsnest #4 most popular SFF site on the Internet
                              >
                              http://dir.yahoo.com/Entertainment/Genres/Science_Fiction_and_Fantasy/
                              DMOZ
                              > DMOZ ranks SFcrowsnest #1 most popular SFF site on the Internet
                              > http://dmoz.org/Arts/Literature/Genres/Science_Fiction/ Google
                              Google ranks
                              > SFcrowsnest #2 most popular SFF site on the Internet
                              >
                              http://directory.google.com/Top/Arts/Genres/Science_Fiction_and_Fantas
                              y/
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                            • Geoff Willmetts
                              Hello Ronald It does make you wonder though why they didn t go the 10% route but I suspect it would make the PROBEs so weathly that they wouldn t hang around.
                              Message 14 of 23 , Aug 18, 2007
                                Hello Ronald

                                It does make you wonder though why they didn't go the 10% route but I
                                suspect it would make the PROBEs so weathly that they wouldn't hang around.
                                :-)

                                Geoff



                                ********* GF Willmetts ****************************
                                Commissioning Editor: http://www.sfcrowsnest.co.uk or
                                http://www.computercrowsnest.co.uk
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                              • JamesGreenidge
                                ... Well, there s nothing wrong with dealing fees for extremely hazardous and complicated jobs - - being mercenary as it were. It s really not a dirty word
                                Message 15 of 23 , Aug 18, 2007
                                  --- In probe_control@yahoogroups.com, "Geoff Willmetts" <gfwillmetts@...> wrote:

                                  > It does make you wonder though why they didn't go the 10% route but I
                                  > suspect it would make the PROBEs so weathly that they wouldn't hang around.
                                  > :-)
                                  >

                                  Well, there's nothing wrong with dealing fees for extremely hazardous and complicated jobs -
                                  - being mercenary as it were. It's really not a dirty word since most of our jobs are to some
                                  extent. The most intriguing and mysterious (in wages) mercenary group on television was the
                                  IMF -- The Impossible Missions Force. Tell me, what kind of fees do you those folks racked
                                  up for the assignments they did??

                                  James Greenidge
                                • ronaldheld
                                  Geoff They could make much more with with their fees based on difficulty of the retrieval.No business would limit their profits short of pricing themselves out
                                  Message 16 of 23 , Aug 19, 2007
                                    Geoff
                                    They could make much more with with their fees based on difficulty
                                    of the retrieval.No business would limit their profits short of
                                    pricing themselves out of the market.
                                    Ronald

                                    --- In probe_control@yahoogroups.com, "Geoff Willmetts"
                                    <gfwillmetts@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Hello Ronald
                                    >
                                    > It does make you wonder though why they didn't go the 10% route but
                                    I
                                    > suspect it would make the PROBEs so weathly that they wouldn't hang
                                    around.
                                    > :-)
                                    >
                                    > Geoff
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > ********* GF Willmetts ****************************
                                    > Commissioning Editor: http://www.sfcrowsnest.co.uk or
                                    > http://www.computercrowsnest.co.uk
                                    > THE SCIENCE FICTION AND FANTASY MAGAZINE
                                    > THE E-BOOK PUBLISHER THAT TRIES HARDER
                                    >
                                    > WE DON'T CHOOSE OUR RANK POSITIONS, OTHERS PUT US THERE:-
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                                    > http://search.aol.com/aolcom/browse?id=906&source=subcats Yahoo
                                    Yahoo ranks
                                    > SFcrowsnest #4 most popular SFF site on the Internet
                                    >
                                    http://dir.yahoo.com/Entertainment/Genres/Science_Fiction_and_Fantasy/
                                    DMOZ
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                                    > http://dmoz.org/Arts/Literature/Genres/Science_Fiction/ Google
                                    Google ranks
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                                  • Geoff Willmetts
                                    Hello Ronald How do you know how difficult the retrieval was until you tried getting it?? If you take the first case we see Lockwood do, doesn’t it make you
                                    Message 17 of 23 , Aug 19, 2007
                                      Hello Ronald

                                      How do you know how difficult the retrieval was until you tried getting
                                      it??

                                      If you take the first case we see Lockwood do, doesn�t it make you wonder
                                      about the incompetence of the people who went looking for the Entourage
                                      Collection before??

                                      Geoff





                                      ********* GF Willmetts ****************************
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                                    • Geoff Willmetts
                                      Hello James I suspect the IMF like the I Spy team got a field agent with maybe specialist enhancement pay. Geoff ********* GF Willmetts
                                      Message 18 of 23 , Aug 19, 2007
                                        Hello James

                                        I suspect the IMF like the I Spy team got a field agent with maybe
                                        specialist enhancement pay.

                                        Geoff



                                        ********* GF Willmetts ****************************
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                                      • JamesGreenidge
                                        ... Interesting take, only it s heavily implied that the IMF are outright freelancers without any real bosses (or scruples) and have access to virtually
                                        Message 19 of 23 , Aug 19, 2007
                                          --- In probe_control@yahoogroups.com, "Geoff Willmetts" <gfwillmetts@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > Hello James
                                          >
                                          > I suspect the IMF like the I Spy team got a field agent with maybe
                                          > specialist enhancement pay.
                                          >
                                          > Geoff

                                          Interesting take, only it's heavily implied that the IMF are outright freelancers without any
                                          real bosses (or scruples) and have access to virtually unlimited stipends, wherein the I Spy
                                          team were definitely bureau-bots who took orders and (usually) toed the company line
                                          and to my recall sometimes complained of a lack of bonuses and perks. The considerable
                                          fees the IMF probably commanded were easily a bargain (for the feds) even at a million
                                          bucks per team member per mission (to stop a war, overthrow a dictator, steal a couple of
                                          nukes, etc.), and these wages were on top of already well-off operatives; Barney owned an
                                          electronic firm and Rollin a very successful actor and Cinnamon -- well, you know how
                                          well top models do, so you end up with a kind of "Thomas Crown" syndrome of very well-
                                          heeded experts who engage in risky missions for as much the sport of it as patriotism. I
                                          think this was a prime appeal of "screw bosses" millionaire investigators as Banacek, but in
                                          excess (along with bad plots) in Cool Million. Unfortunately, Probe never really gave us a
                                          peek in the lives or even history of its agents (we found out more about Cam's than
                                          theirs!), and though Doug's antics and possessions (like a Corvette Stingray) suggests
                                          Probe compensated its agents very well, Lockwood -- as "the best" probe, rightfully
                                          deserved to bargain his wages if he could bring home the bacon with his skin (now maybe
                                          HE had a Rolls Royce in his manor's driveway!)...

                                          JimWG
                                        • ronaldheld
                                          Greetings Geoff: That is a good point, but there could be blocks of fees for similar tasks(proportional to the value of the items. Ronald ... tried getting ...
                                          Message 20 of 23 , Aug 20, 2007
                                            Greetings Geoff:
                                            That is a good point, but there could be blocks of fees for
                                            similar tasks(proportional to the value of the items.
                                            Ronald
                                            --- In probe_control@yahoogroups.com, "Geoff Willmetts"
                                            <gfwillmetts@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > Hello Ronald
                                            >
                                            > How do you know how difficult the retrieval was until you
                                            tried getting
                                            > it??
                                            >
                                            > If you take the first case we see Lockwood do, doesn't it make you
                                            wonder
                                            > about the incompetence of the people who went looking for the
                                            Entourage
                                            > Collection before??
                                            >
                                            > Geoff
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > ********* GF Willmetts ****************************
                                            > Commissioning Editor: http://www.sfcrowsnest.co.uk or
                                            > http://www.computercrowsnest.co.uk
                                            > THE SCIENCE FICTION AND FANTASY MAGAZINE
                                            > THE E-BOOK PUBLISHER THAT TRIES HARDER
                                            >
                                            > WE DON'T CHOOSE OUR RANK POSITIONS, OTHERS PUT US THERE:-
                                            >
                                            > AOL AOL ranks SFcrowsnest #1 most popular SFF site on the Internet
                                            > http://search.aol.com/aolcom/browse?id=906&source=subcats Yahoo
                                            Yahoo ranks
                                            > SFcrowsnest #4 most popular SFF site on the Internet
                                            >
                                            http://dir.yahoo.com/Entertainment/Genres/Science_Fiction_and_Fantasy/
                                            DMOZ
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                                            > http://dmoz.org/Arts/Literature/Genres/Science_Fiction/ Google
                                            Google ranks
                                            > SFcrowsnest #2 most popular SFF site on the Internet
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                                            >
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                                          • Geoff Willmetts
                                            Hello Ronald If there was, there was no mention in the series. The one person who would be missing out would be Bianco as he was in World Securities detective
                                            Message 21 of 23 , Aug 20, 2007
                                              Hello Ronald

                                              If there was, there was no mention in the series. The one person who would
                                              be missing out would be Bianco as he was in World Securities detective
                                              division.

                                              Geoff



                                              ********* GF Willmetts ****************************
                                              Commissioning Editor: http://www.sfcrowsnest.co.uk or
                                              http://www.computercrowsnest.co.uk
                                              THE SCIENCE FICTION AND FANTASY MAGAZINE
                                              THE E-BOOK PUBLISHER THAT TRIES HARDER

                                              WE DON�T CHOOSE OUR RANK POSITIONS, OTHERS PUT US THERE:-

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                                              SFcrowsnest #2 most popular SFF site on the Internet
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