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Re: Editing

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  • Morningstar
    I am just about to stop watching broadcast television all together. Right now I am watching only about six shows, and half of them are Law & Order and CSI.
    Message 1 of 11 , Mar 31 11:52 PM
      I am just about to stop watching broadcast television all together.
      Right now I am watching only about six shows, and half of them are
      "Law & Order" and "CSI."

      I have all the original "Star Trek" episodes on LaserDisc. I will not
      watch another broadcast of "Star Trek" ever again. I tried watching
      the "Special Editions" with William Shatner, but the way they edited
      the episodes stopped me. Why coulden't they run the episodes for
      ninety minutes and put the commentary inside the original commercial
      breaks? I think that people would be watching for the special
      material, and they would be glued to the sets, seeing the "uncut"
      episodes along with the extra material.

      I have been watching some series one episode at a time. For instance,
      I have been watching "Battlestar Galactica" every Sunday. The show is
      great, and the collection is one of the best. Universal did a really
      good job on this set.

      And, I have been watching "Lost in Space" every Wednesday. The
      episodes are good, but Fox screwed up this collection. I am only
      through the third episode, but they messed up the intro on episode 2,
      "The Derelict." Plus, there is no commentary or any other extras.

      Watching these episodes one at a time really is a treat. I think that
      over the next few years, there is going to be quite a change in
      television. "The Family Guy" is one example. I don't know why people
      actually bought that set, but they did. I can only hope that "The
      Tick" did some good business, but I haven't heard anything about it.
      Plus, look at "Futurama." Great show, but Fox kept pre-empting it. I
      joked that I watched "Futurama," but I didn't care for the four guys
      sitting around talking about football, not their animation.

      --- In probe_control@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Alexander"
      <probecontrol@s...> wrote:
      > Don Harden wrote:
      > > As long as people accept it and don't complain directly, it will
      get worse
      > before it gets better.
      > ------------------------------------
      > Don and group--
      >
      > I think that the reason people don't object to editing-for-time, is
      because
      > they don't realize it's being done. I must have explained to about a
      > hundred people over the last 20 years that they're missing around 5
      minutes
      > worth of filmed material from older hour-long shows, and 2 or three
      minutes
      > from half-hours. I'm talking important bits of dialogue,
      characterization
      > and humor... that have been snipped out by an editor. And the
      people I've
      > explained this to, almost always look at me with the same
      'REALLY?!?!' kind
      > of expression. Ninety-nine out of a hundred people have NO idea that
      > often-critical segments are being deleted from the TV shows we grew
      up with
      > (or in the case with younger people--watching these older shows,
      like the
      > syndicated CLASSIC STAR TREK or LOST IN SPACE, for the first time). How
      > many 'throwaway' bits usually make it into scripts? Very few. That
      means
      > that action and dialogue that a writer and director thought were
      integral to
      > the plot are now... just... gone.
      >
      > People don't complain because people don't KNOW.
      >
      > It's somewhat like the issue of letterboxing. If people were better
      > educated about what's 'being taken away from them' (as in a full-screen
      > version of a theatrical film), then they would start to see the
      light. My
      > ex-wife had her eyes opened when she watched her favorite film--MY FAIR
      > LADY--for the first time in widescreen. She saw people, dancers, whole
      > performances... that she'd never knew existed... and was an advocate of
      > letterboxing from that moment on.
      >
      > But I digress. My point is... it's about education. People just
      don't KNOW
      > what they're missing.
      >
      > Stepping off my soapbox--
      >
      > Jim Alexander
    • C. Dixon
      ... I think I am right up there with you! I ordered cable for my kids, and had hoped that the extra channels would carry something interesting, unusual or
      Message 2 of 11 , Apr 1, 2004
        --- Morningstar <amstar@...> wrote:
        > I am just about to stop watching broadcast
        > television all together.
        > Right now I am watching only about six shows, and
        > half of them are
        > "Law & Order" and "CSI."
        >
        I think I am right up there with you! I ordered cable
        for my kids, and had hoped that the extra channels
        would carry something interesting, unusual or just
        plain entertaining.
        The most fun I have is watching the cat when we have
        Animal Planet on. Since he actually watches it
        (especially the "Animal Cops" series) HE is more
        entertaining than the tube is.
        Maybe part of the problem is that writers today have
        been turned out of "puppy mills" (no pun from the
        cat). They have been taught to write inside the
        bubble, and all the shows seem to be similar in a lot
        of ways. Watch "Smallville", "90210", "Buffy" and
        anything that has people on it from Fox, you will see
        what I mean.
        "Enterprise" was a show I had high hopes for, and I am
        greatly dissapointed with it. It's the same stuff,
        different day. The plots evolve the same way, the crew
        reacts to situations the same way, etc.
        Here was a vehicle that could have capitalized (sic?)
        on Capt. Pike, or Robert T. April, all Kirk
        predecessors. The books are good, and have unusual
        ideas, they could have carried the way for a great
        series, kept the older audience and still had some
        CHARM for the younger generation.
        The last series I was rabid about was Babylon 5. It
        was sinister, well written, wasn't gimmick oriented
        (they used nukes for goodness sakes, in battle) and
        had good plot twists.
        24 never caught my eye, I watch CSI (not the Miami one
        tho')and Monk when I get a chance, and the news.
        My Mom has a theory, that all the good songs, good
        plots and books have been written. All the original
        themes are done with, and modern novels, shows and
        music are simply variations on a theme.
        There, off the soap box.
        End Run
        Chris

        __________________________________
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      • cmaurelius
        - My ... don t KNOW ... Exactly. I had forgotten how well filmed The Outlaw Josie Wales was until I saw the letter boxed edition on a big TV. Wow. Old Clint
        Message 3 of 11 , Apr 1, 2004
          - My
          > ex-wife had her eyes opened when she watched her favorite film--MY FAIR
          > LADY--for the first time in widescreen. She saw people, dancers, whole
          > performances... that she'd never knew existed... and was an advocate of
          > letterboxing from that moment on.
          >
          > But I digress. My point is... it's about education. People just
          don't KNOW
          > what they're missing.


          Exactly. I had forgotten how well filmed "The Outlaw Josie Wales" was
          until I saw the letter boxed edition on a big TV. Wow. Old Clint does
          have a "romantic" eye for scenery!
        • Morningstar
          Well, the problem is not really the writing, although it is part of the problem. The real problem is the producers and networks. I don t mean that as an
          Message 4 of 11 , Apr 1, 2004
            Well, the problem is not really the writing, although it is part of
            the problem. The real problem is the producers and networks. I don't
            mean that as an insult, but a reality.

            For instance, Fox took a gamble on "American Idol." It was a copy of a
            show that did well in Great Britain called "Pop Idol." Now, it is all
            "American Idol" all the time. "Survivor" started in Great Britain, now
            it is the cornerstone of CBS.

            While I like "CSI: Miami" it is an off shoot of "CSI." The same goes
            for "Law & Order." Producers and networks go with what works. When
            something is successful, the networks say "Get me a reality show. Get
            me a crime show. Get me a lawyer show." It has been this way forever.

            Back in the late eighties, remember "Space Rangers?" That came about
            because "Star Trek: The Next Generation" was making money. So, get me
            some science fiction show. However, few people know how to write good
            science fiction. Science fiction, as we know, is for a higher minded
            person. We are comfortable with technology, so when we watch Lockwood
            do something, he has to be right scientifically. It might be similar
            when a policeman following the laws, or a lawyer doing his business in
            court. But, while most people know some of the law, fewer know about
            science.

            A girlfriend of mine made a comment that in "Star Trek: The Voyage
            Home" that the director and producers took pride in the intelligence
            of their audience by showing the Enterprise with the registry
            NCC-1701-A, and not having it specifically mentioned by the actors.

            You mentioned "Babylon 5." I really liked that show. It was great. I
            liked the writing, and the way the characters had backgrounds and
            foibles. I think that J. Michael Staczinsky is a great writer.

            Again, however, people have screwed up. For some reason J. Michael
            Straczinsky left "Jeremiah." Why would producers do things to drive
            someone as creative as him?

            "Beauty and the Beast" was also a well written show. I have spoken to
            George R. R. Martin and found him to be quite clever. Again, it is the
            writing that carries a show.

            With this new change in television production, with dvd and television
            on demand, perhaps this will be the turning point for creativity. ABC
            screwed up with "Monk." They let it slip through their fingers, and
            now it is a hit on USA.

            Again, it is the different that is a hit. Producers don't like to take
            chances. They would rather have a mediocre show that lasts than have a
            glorious failure.

            Just my nickel.

            --- In probe_control@yahoogroups.com, "C. Dixon" <cmaurelius@y...> wrote:
            >
            > --- Morningstar <amstar@c...> wrote:
            > > I am just about to stop watching broadcast
            > > television all together.
            > > Right now I am watching only about six shows, and
            > > half of them are
            > > "Law & Order" and "CSI."
            > >
            > I think I am right up there with you! I ordered cable
            > for my kids, and had hoped that the extra channels
            > would carry something interesting, unusual or just
            > plain entertaining.
            > The most fun I have is watching the cat when we have
            > Animal Planet on. Since he actually watches it
            > (especially the "Animal Cops" series) HE is more
            > entertaining than the tube is.
            > Maybe part of the problem is that writers today have
            > been turned out of "puppy mills" (no pun from the
            > cat). They have been taught to write inside the
            > bubble, and all the shows seem to be similar in a lot
            > of ways. Watch "Smallville", "90210", "Buffy" and
            > anything that has people on it from Fox, you will see
            > what I mean.
            > "Enterprise" was a show I had high hopes for, and I am
            > greatly dissapointed with it. It's the same stuff,
            > different day. The plots evolve the same way, the crew
            > reacts to situations the same way, etc.
            > Here was a vehicle that could have capitalized (sic?)
            > on Capt. Pike, or Robert T. April, all Kirk
            > predecessors. The books are good, and have unusual
            > ideas, they could have carried the way for a great
            > series, kept the older audience and still had some
            > CHARM for the younger generation.
            > The last series I was rabid about was Babylon 5. It
            > was sinister, well written, wasn't gimmick oriented
            > (they used nukes for goodness sakes, in battle) and
            > had good plot twists.
            > 24 never caught my eye, I watch CSI (not the Miami one
            > tho')and Monk when I get a chance, and the news.
            > My Mom has a theory, that all the good songs, good
            > plots and books have been written. All the original
            > themes are done with, and modern novels, shows and
            > music are simply variations on a theme.
            > There, off the soap box.
            > End Run
            > Chris
            >
            > __________________________________
            > Do you Yahoo!?
            > Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway
            > http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/
          • Mike Valerio
            ... networks....again, it is the writing that carries a show.
            Message 5 of 11 , Apr 1, 2004
              >>>> The real problem is the producers and
              networks....again, it is the writing that carries a
              show. <<<<

              No, it�s the audience. The audience carries the show.

              It�s not the writing that carries AMERICAN IDOL or
              SURVIVOR. There�s no writing in those shows.

              Next season, we�re going to have four LAW & ORDER
              shows and three CSI shows on the air.

              Why? Because of the writing? No, because people tune
              in.

              CBS just yanked CENTURY CITY off the air after a
              couple of airings.

              Why? Because the writing was bad?

              No. Because nobody watched it.

              TV is an instrument of pure capitalism. The
              marketplace rules. Every single minute of every single
              day, the TV business holds an election and the
              audience is offered the opportunity to vote with their
              remotes.

              If enough people tune in, the show stays on. If they
              don�t, it doesn�t.

              You can blame producers and networks for mediocre,
              redundant product if you like. But as a television
              professional of nearly 25 years, I�m telling you
              that�s narrow and misguided thinking.

              Taco Bell doesn�t stay in business because they make
              great Mexican food. They stay in business because huge
              numbers of people eat there. If people stopped eating
              at Taco Bell tomorrow, the company would have two
              choices: Change the product or go out of business. But
              as long as people keep showing up to chow down at Taco
              Bell, there�s no reason for the folks in charge to
              change a single thing.

              TV works exactly same way.

              You�ll get smarter shows when people stop supporting
              the dumb ones�and their carbon copies.

              - MV
            • C. Dixon
              Hi, Yes, I remember Space Rangers. I own the 6 episodes. The pilot had hope, but something wierd happens. Literally 6 producers, 6 writers and 6 pilots
              Message 6 of 11 , Apr 1, 2004
                Hi, Yes, I remember Space Rangers. I own the 6
                episodes. The pilot had hope, but something wierd
                happens. Literally 6 producers, 6 writers and 6 pilots
                happened.
                A good idea gone bad through mismanagement.
                Funny thing, I had fonder memories of it than it
                actually deserved. I still like 'em for the period
                peice, but they really ARE BAD :)
                Has anyone ever notised that Lost in space was more
                serious in the first season than the other years?
                The black and whites are great!


                --- Morningstar <amstar@...> wrote:
                > Well, the problem is not really the writing,
                > although it is part of
                > the problem. The real problem is the producers and
                > networks. I don't
                > mean that as an insult, but a reality.
                >
                > For instance, Fox took a gamble on "American Idol."
                > It was a copy of a
                > show that did well in Great Britain called "Pop
                > Idol." Now, it is all
                > "American Idol" all the time. "Survivor" started in
                > Great Britain, now
                > it is the cornerstone of CBS.
                >
                > While I like "CSI: Miami" it is an off shoot of
                > "CSI." The same goes
                > for "Law & Order." Producers and networks go with
                > what works. When
                > something is successful, the networks say "Get me a
                > reality show. Get
                > me a crime show. Get me a lawyer show." It has been
                > this way forever.
                >
                > Back in the late eighties, remember "Space Rangers?"
                > That came about
                > because "Star Trek: The Next Generation" was making
                > money. So, get me
                > some science fiction show. However, few people know
                > how to write good
                > science fiction. Science fiction, as we know, is for
                > a higher minded
                > person. We are comfortable with technology, so when
                > we watch Lockwood
                > do something, he has to be right scientifically. It
                > might be similar
                > when a policeman following the laws, or a lawyer
                > doing his business in
                > court. But, while most people know some of the law,
                > fewer know about
                > science.
                >
                > A girlfriend of mine made a comment that in "Star
                > Trek: The Voyage
                > Home" that the director and producers took pride in
                > the intelligence
                > of their audience by showing the Enterprise with the
                > registry
                > NCC-1701-A, and not having it specifically mentioned
                > by the actors.
                >
                > You mentioned "Babylon 5." I really liked that show.
                > It was great. I
                > liked the writing, and the way the characters had
                > backgrounds and
                > foibles. I think that J. Michael Staczinsky is a
                > great writer.
                >
                > Again, however, people have screwed up. For some
                > reason J. Michael
                > Straczinsky left "Jeremiah." Why would producers do
                > things to drive
                > someone as creative as him?
                >
                > "Beauty and the Beast" was also a well written show.
                > I have spoken to
                > George R. R. Martin and found him to be quite
                > clever. Again, it is the
                > writing that carries a show.
                >
                > With this new change in television production, with
                > dvd and television
                > on demand, perhaps this will be the turning point
                > for creativity. ABC
                > screwed up with "Monk." They let it slip through
                > their fingers, and
                > now it is a hit on USA.
                >
                > Again, it is the different that is a hit. Producers
                > don't like to take
                > chances. They would rather have a mediocre show that
                > lasts than have a
                > glorious failure.
                >
                > Just my nickel.
                >
                > --- In probe_control@yahoogroups.com, "C. Dixon"
                > <cmaurelius@y...> wrote:
                > >
                > > --- Morningstar <amstar@c...> wrote:
                > > > I am just about to stop watching broadcast
                > > > television all together.
                > > > Right now I am watching only about six shows,
                > and
                > > > half of them are
                > > > "Law & Order" and "CSI."
                > > >
                > > I think I am right up there with you! I ordered
                > cable
                > > for my kids, and had hoped that the extra
                > channels
                > > would carry something interesting, unusual or just
                > > plain entertaining.
                > > The most fun I have is watching the cat when we
                > have
                > > Animal Planet on. Since he actually watches it
                > > (especially the "Animal Cops" series) HE is more
                > > entertaining than the tube is.
                > > Maybe part of the problem is that writers today
                > have
                > > been turned out of "puppy mills" (no pun from the
                > > cat). They have been taught to write inside the
                > > bubble, and all the shows seem to be similar in a
                > lot
                > > of ways. Watch "Smallville", "90210", "Buffy" and
                > > anything that has people on it from Fox, you will
                > see
                > > what I mean.
                > > "Enterprise" was a show I had high hopes for, and
                > I am
                > > greatly dissapointed with it. It's the same stuff,
                > > different day. The plots evolve the same way, the
                > crew
                > > reacts to situations the same way, etc.
                > > Here was a vehicle that could have capitalized
                > (sic?)
                > > on Capt. Pike, or Robert T. April, all Kirk
                > > predecessors. The books are good, and have unusual
                > > ideas, they could have carried the way for a great
                > > series, kept the older audience and still had some
                > > CHARM for the younger generation.
                > > The last series I was rabid about was Babylon 5.
                > It
                > > was sinister, well written, wasn't gimmick
                > oriented
                > > (they used nukes for goodness sakes, in battle)
                > and
                > > had good plot twists.
                > > 24 never caught my eye, I watch CSI (not the Miami
                > one
                > > tho')and Monk when I get a chance, and the news.
                > > My Mom has a theory, that all the good songs, good
                > > plots and books have been written. All the
                > original
                > > themes are done with, and modern novels, shows and
                > > music are simply variations on a theme.
                > > There, off the soap box.
                > > End Run
                > > Chris
                > >
                > > __________________________________
                > > Do you Yahoo!?
                > > Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway
                > > http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/
                >
                >

                __________________________________
                Do you Yahoo!?
                Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway
                http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/
              • dghprobe3
                ... Hi Morningstar: On The Derelict, I guess you mean that episode begins immediately with the opening credits, then goes to the program. (This is the only
                Message 7 of 11 , Apr 1, 2004
                  --- In probe_control, "Morningstar" wrote:
                  > And, I have been watching "Lost in Space" every Wednesday. The
                  > episodes are good, but Fox screwed up this collection. I am only
                  > through the third episode, but they messed up the intro on episode
                  > 2, "The Derelict." Plus, there is no commentary or any other extras.

                  Hi Morningstar: On "The Derelict," I guess you mean that episode
                  begins immediately with the opening credits, then goes to the
                  program. (This is the only episode which does that.)

                  My understanding is that the episode aired that way on network and in
                  syndication. EVERY syndicated showing I've seen has aired that way.
                  Looking at the episode "teaser," for some reason it runs some 12
                  minutes or more, much longer than the average LIS teaser. It's
                  actually more like a teaser and Act 1 combined.

                  My belief is that somehow it was determined that the opening credits
                  came too late into that particular episode. After all, this was only
                  the second episode, and a new show's identification with the audience
                  may have been the deciding factor in where the opening credits were
                  placed. That's just a guess. :-)

                  I strongly doubt that Fox intentionally messed with the episode. The
                  idea of digitizing to DVD is to do straight conversions of the
                  original 35mm prints as the network aired them.

                  I understand the cliffhangers are intact, but do the LIS episodes
                  contain the mid-episode bumpers, "LIS will return after station
                  identification," "LIS has been brought to you by," etc.?

                  --Don H.
                • Morningstar
                  Well, point taken. However, longevity on television and longevity in our collective intelligence are two different things. Interesting that you use the Taco
                  Message 8 of 11 , Apr 7, 2004
                    Well, point taken. However, longevity on television and longevity in
                    our collective intelligence are two different things.

                    Interesting that you use the Taco Bell analogy. I have used that and
                    McDonalds in making comparisons of quality and authenticity.

                    Granted, "Babylon 5" is a much better show than "Roseanne." However,
                    which will be around in ten years? What about twenty? Great shows have
                    died a quick death because of the numbers game. But, do you disagree
                    that there is not a market for original ideas in the movies and
                    television?

                    --- In probe_control@yahoogroups.com, Mike Valerio <mvscreen@s...> wrote:
                    > >>>> The real problem is the producers and
                    > networks....again, it is the writing that carries a
                    > show. <<<<
                    >
                    > No, it's the audience. The audience carries the show.
                    >
                    > It's not the writing that carries AMERICAN IDOL or
                    > SURVIVOR. There's no writing in those shows.
                    >
                    > Next season, we're going to have four LAW & ORDER
                    > shows and three CSI shows on the air.
                    >
                    > Why? Because of the writing? No, because people tune
                    > in.
                    >
                    > CBS just yanked CENTURY CITY off the air after a
                    > couple of airings.
                    >
                    > Why? Because the writing was bad?
                    >
                    > No. Because nobody watched it.
                    >
                    > TV is an instrument of pure capitalism. The
                    > marketplace rules. Every single minute of every single
                    > day, the TV business holds an election and the
                    > audience is offered the opportunity to vote with their
                    > remotes.
                    >
                    > If enough people tune in, the show stays on. If they
                    > don't, it doesn't.
                    >
                    > You can blame producers and networks for mediocre,
                    > redundant product if you like. But as a television
                    > professional of nearly 25 years, I'm telling you
                    > that's narrow and misguided thinking.
                    >
                    > Taco Bell doesn't stay in business because they make
                    > great Mexican food. They stay in business because huge
                    > numbers of people eat there. If people stopped eating
                    > at Taco Bell tomorrow, the company would have two
                    > choices: Change the product or go out of business. But
                    > as long as people keep showing up to chow down at Taco
                    > Bell, there's no reason for the folks in charge to
                    > change a single thing.
                    >
                    > TV works exactly same way.
                    >
                    > You'll get smarter shows when people stop supporting
                    > the dumb ones…and their carbon copies.
                    >
                    > - MV
                  • Morningstar
                    Lost in Space tried to be science fiction. One thing that happened was that Johnathon Harris wanted to change the character of Dr. Smith. If he remained a
                    Message 9 of 11 , Apr 7, 2004
                      "Lost in Space" tried to be science fiction. One thing that happened
                      was that Johnathon Harris wanted to change the character of Dr. Smith.
                      If he remained a bad guy, he would be dumped off the show. But, by
                      making him "childlike" he became lovable. That way, the character
                      would have longevity.

                      As the show became more popular, and Dr. Smith, Will, and the Robot
                      became star characters, the story moved to more of a "children's show"
                      instead of a family show.

                      As competition from that little show on NBC, they wanted to get into
                      more adventures. That is one of the reasons that they were in space in
                      the third season.

                      The best part of "Lost in Space" was the moral element. It was "the
                      family Robinson" which is why it has maintained its fans for forty years.

                      "Star Trek" was science, and "Lost in Space" was fiction. 8)


                      -- In probe_control@yahoogroups.com, "C. Dixon" <cmaurelius@y...> wrote:
                      > Hi, Yes, I remember Space Rangers. I own the 6
                      > episodes. The pilot had hope, but something wierd
                      > happens. Literally 6 producers, 6 writers and 6 pilots
                      > happened.
                      > A good idea gone bad through mismanagement.
                      > Funny thing, I had fonder memories of it than it
                      > actually deserved. I still like 'em for the period
                      > peice, but they really ARE BAD :)
                      > Has anyone ever notised that Lost in space was more
                      > serious in the first season than the other years?
                      > The black and whites are great!
                      >
                      >
                      > --- Morningstar <amstar@c...> wrote:
                      > > Well, the problem is not really the writing,
                      > > although it is part of
                      > > the problem. The real problem is the producers and
                      > > networks. I don't
                      > > mean that as an insult, but a reality.
                      > >
                      > > For instance, Fox took a gamble on "American Idol."
                      > > It was a copy of a
                      > > show that did well in Great Britain called "Pop
                      > > Idol." Now, it is all
                      > > "American Idol" all the time. "Survivor" started in
                      > > Great Britain, now
                      > > it is the cornerstone of CBS.
                      > >
                      > > While I like "CSI: Miami" it is an off shoot of
                      > > "CSI." The same goes
                      > > for "Law & Order." Producers and networks go with
                      > > what works. When
                      > > something is successful, the networks say "Get me a
                      > > reality show. Get
                      > > me a crime show. Get me a lawyer show." It has been
                      > > this way forever.
                      > >
                      > > Back in the late eighties, remember "Space Rangers?"
                      > > That came about
                      > > because "Star Trek: The Next Generation" was making
                      > > money. So, get me
                      > > some science fiction show. However, few people know
                      > > how to write good
                      > > science fiction. Science fiction, as we know, is for
                      > > a higher minded
                      > > person. We are comfortable with technology, so when
                      > > we watch Lockwood
                      > > do something, he has to be right scientifically. It
                      > > might be similar
                      > > when a policeman following the laws, or a lawyer
                      > > doing his business in
                      > > court. But, while most people know some of the law,
                      > > fewer know about
                      > > science.
                      > >
                      > > A girlfriend of mine made a comment that in "Star
                      > > Trek: The Voyage
                      > > Home" that the director and producers took pride in
                      > > the intelligence
                      > > of their audience by showing the Enterprise with the
                      > > registry
                      > > NCC-1701-A, and not having it specifically mentioned
                      > > by the actors.
                      > >
                      > > You mentioned "Babylon 5." I really liked that show.
                      > > It was great. I
                      > > liked the writing, and the way the characters had
                      > > backgrounds and
                      > > foibles. I think that J. Michael Staczinsky is a
                      > > great writer.
                      > >
                      > > Again, however, people have screwed up. For some
                      > > reason J. Michael
                      > > Straczinsky left "Jeremiah." Why would producers do
                      > > things to drive
                      > > someone as creative as him?
                      > >
                      > > "Beauty and the Beast" was also a well written show.
                      > > I have spoken to
                      > > George R. R. Martin and found him to be quite
                      > > clever. Again, it is the
                      > > writing that carries a show.
                      > >
                      > > With this new change in television production, with
                      > > dvd and television
                      > > on demand, perhaps this will be the turning point
                      > > for creativity. ABC
                      > > screwed up with "Monk." They let it slip through
                      > > their fingers, and
                      > > now it is a hit on USA.
                      > >
                      > > Again, it is the different that is a hit. Producers
                      > > don't like to take
                      > > chances. They would rather have a mediocre show that
                      > > lasts than have a
                      > > glorious failure.
                      > >
                      > > Just my nickel.
                      > >
                      > > --- In probe_control@yahoogroups.com, "C. Dixon"
                      > > <cmaurelius@y...> wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > --- Morningstar <amstar@c...> wrote:
                      > > > > I am just about to stop watching broadcast
                      > > > > television all together.
                      > > > > Right now I am watching only about six shows,
                      > > and
                      > > > > half of them are
                      > > > > "Law & Order" and "CSI."
                      > > > >
                      > > > I think I am right up there with you! I ordered
                      > > cable
                      > > > for my kids, and had hoped that the extra
                      > > channels
                      > > > would carry something interesting, unusual or just
                      > > > plain entertaining.
                      > > > The most fun I have is watching the cat when we
                      > > have
                      > > > Animal Planet on. Since he actually watches it
                      > > > (especially the "Animal Cops" series) HE is more
                      > > > entertaining than the tube is.
                      > > > Maybe part of the problem is that writers today
                      > > have
                      > > > been turned out of "puppy mills" (no pun from the
                      > > > cat). They have been taught to write inside the
                      > > > bubble, and all the shows seem to be similar in a
                      > > lot
                      > > > of ways. Watch "Smallville", "90210", "Buffy" and
                      > > > anything that has people on it from Fox, you will
                      > > see
                      > > > what I mean.
                      > > > "Enterprise" was a show I had high hopes for, and
                      > > I am
                      > > > greatly dissapointed with it. It's the same stuff,
                      > > > different day. The plots evolve the same way, the
                      > > crew
                      > > > reacts to situations the same way, etc.
                      > > > Here was a vehicle that could have capitalized
                      > > (sic?)
                      > > > on Capt. Pike, or Robert T. April, all Kirk
                      > > > predecessors. The books are good, and have unusual
                      > > > ideas, they could have carried the way for a great
                      > > > series, kept the older audience and still had some
                      > > > CHARM for the younger generation.
                      > > > The last series I was rabid about was Babylon 5.
                      > > It
                      > > > was sinister, well written, wasn't gimmick
                      > > oriented
                      > > > (they used nukes for goodness sakes, in battle)
                      > > and
                      > > > had good plot twists.
                      > > > 24 never caught my eye, I watch CSI (not the Miami
                      > > one
                      > > > tho')and Monk when I get a chance, and the news.
                      > > > My Mom has a theory, that all the good songs, good
                      > > > plots and books have been written. All the
                      > > original
                      > > > themes are done with, and modern novels, shows and
                      > > > music are simply variations on a theme.
                      > > > There, off the soap box.
                      > > > End Run
                      > > > Chris
                      > > >
                      > > > __________________________________
                      > > > Do you Yahoo!?
                      > > > Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway
                      > > > http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      > __________________________________
                      > Do you Yahoo!?
                      > Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway
                      > http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/
                    • Morningstar
                      That should be the case. However, the original prints could have been done in sections, for original broadcast and sectioned for commercial insertions. The
                      Message 10 of 11 , Apr 7, 2004
                        That should be the case. However, the original prints could have been
                        done in sections, for original broadcast and sectioned for commercial
                        insertions.

                        The format should have been deternimed, since the format is set by the
                        networks, and this was produced for CBS. But, I don't discount your
                        theory.

                        --- In probe_control@yahoogroups.com, "dghprobe3" <dghprobe3@a...> wrote:
                        > --- In probe_control, "Morningstar" wrote:
                        > > And, I have been watching "Lost in Space" every Wednesday. The
                        > > episodes are good, but Fox screwed up this collection. I am only
                        > > through the third episode, but they messed up the intro on episode
                        > > 2, "The Derelict." Plus, there is no commentary or any other extras.
                        >
                        > Hi Morningstar: On "The Derelict," I guess you mean that episode
                        > begins immediately with the opening credits, then goes to the
                        > program. (This is the only episode which does that.)
                        >
                        > My understanding is that the episode aired that way on network and in
                        > syndication. EVERY syndicated showing I've seen has aired that way.
                        > Looking at the episode "teaser," for some reason it runs some 12
                        > minutes or more, much longer than the average LIS teaser. It's
                        > actually more like a teaser and Act 1 combined.
                        >
                        > My belief is that somehow it was determined that the opening credits
                        > came too late into that particular episode. After all, this was only
                        > the second episode, and a new show's identification with the audience
                        > may have been the deciding factor in where the opening credits were
                        > placed. That's just a guess. :-)
                        >
                        > I strongly doubt that Fox intentionally messed with the episode. The
                        > idea of digitizing to DVD is to do straight conversions of the
                        > original 35mm prints as the network aired them.
                        >
                        > I understand the cliffhangers are intact, but do the LIS episodes
                        > contain the mid-episode bumpers, "LIS will return after station
                        > identification," "LIS has been brought to you by," etc.?
                        >
                        > --Don H.
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