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Re: [probe_control] Re: A Good Discussion

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  • Mike Valerio
    ... was produced by Warner Bros. television whichhad never done a wheel show before...Universal invented the wheel concept with The Name of the Game and
    Message 1 of 19 , Nov 30, 2003
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      Bob:

      >>>> Search doesn't hold up for one major reason: it
      was produced by Warner Bros. television whichhad never
      done a wheel show before...Universal invented the
      wheel concept with The Name of the Game and expanded
      it with the Sunday and Wednesday Mystery Movies...When
      NBC bought Search, Warner had never done this before
      and it shows.�<<<<

      Sorry to say, Bob, but you've got your facts and your
      terminology wrong.

      SEARCH and THE NAME OF THE GAME were NOT "wheel"
      shows. They were "rotating lead" shows. This concept
      was NOT invented by Universal, but by Warner Bros.
      back in the 50s with MAVERICK (Jim Garner and Jack
      Kelly as rotating leads) and 77 SUNSET STRIP (Efrem
      Zimalist and Roger Smith). The "rotating lead" was
      invented at a time when a drama series shot six days a
      week for may 35 or 40 weeks a year...a tough burden
      for one star. One title, one premise, one production
      team, but multiple leads.

      FOUR-IN-ONE, THE BOLD ONES and THE NBC MYSTERY MOVIES
      were known as "wheels"...series with one umbrella
      title under which three or four separate series ran.
      One title, four premises, four production teams.

      Warners created the "rotating lead", of which SEARCH
      is an example. Universal created the "wheel", of which
      SEARCH is not.

      - Mike Valerio
    • bob.greenberger@att.net
      Well, I thought i had my facts right. As soon as I read your post, Mike, I realized I was in error. Still, Warner made crappy TV shows compared to Universal
      Message 2 of 19 , Dec 1, 2003
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        Well, I thought i had my facts right. As soon as I read your post, Mike, I
        realized I was in error.

        Still, Warner made crappy TV shows compared to Universal at the time and no
        doubt NBC was disappointed when Search didn't measure up to the Mystery movies.

        --
        Bob
        > Bob:
        >
        > >>>> Search doesn't hold up for one major reason: it
        > was produced by Warner Bros. television whichhad never
        > done a wheel show before...Universal invented the
        > wheel concept with The Name of the Game and expanded
        > it with the Sunday and Wednesday Mystery Movies...When
        > NBC bought Search, Warner had never done this before
        > and it shows. <<<<
        >
        > Sorry to say, Bob, but you've got your facts and your
        > terminology wrong.
        >
        > SEARCH and THE NAME OF THE GAME were NOT "wheel"
        > shows. They were "rotating lead" shows. This concept
        > was NOT invented by Universal, but by Warner Bros.
        > back in the 50s with MAVERICK (Jim Garner and Jack
        > Kelly as rotating leads) and 77 SUNSET STRIP (Efrem
        > Zimalist and Roger Smith). The "rotating lead" was
        > invented at a time when a drama series shot six days a
        > week for may 35 or 40 weeks a year...a tough burden
        > for one star. One title, one premise, one production
        > team, but multiple leads.
        >
        > FOUR-IN-ONE, THE BOLD ONES and THE NBC MYSTERY MOVIES

        > were known as "wheels"...series with one umbrella
        > title under which three or four separate series ran.
        > One title, four premises, four production teams.
        >
        > Warners created the "rotating lead", of which SEARCH
        > is an example. Universal created the "wheel", of which
        > SEARCH is not.
        >
        > - Mike Valerio
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >
        >
      • lazenbyland
        Audiences nowadays are much more informed and questioning than they were 20 or 30 years ago. When Star Trek was on in the sixties and seventies, no-one
        Message 3 of 19 , Dec 1, 2003
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          Audiences nowadays are much more informed and questioning than they
          were 20 or 30 years ago.

          When Star Trek was on in the sixties and seventies, no-one questioned
          the fact that most of the universe spoke english, though they've
          since tried to cover that in the later series by saying that
          everybody had their own personal universal translator.

          But in Space:1999 there was definitely no UT and it was never
          explained how the moon was able to travel at faster than light
          speeds. It would never be accepted today.

          But Search was shown in a time when we didn't question anything like
          the above so it shouldn't really be judged by today's standards. I do
          think the basic premise of the show is a sound one however and would
          work if they remade today. With all the miniaturization that we have
          today it would be totally believable.

          Another show that I thought was great when it was shown was The
          Professionals which I think was too violent for the american
          networks. It starred Lewis Collins, Martin Shaw and Gordon Jackson.
          Its very , very dated nowadays though and extremely hard to watch.
        • Mike Valerio
          ... Universal at the time and no doubt NBC was disappointed when Search didn t measure up to the Mystery movies.
          Message 4 of 19 , Dec 1, 2003
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            >>>>> Warner made crappy TV shows compared to
            Universal at the time and no doubt NBC was
            disappointed when Search didn't measure up to the
            Mystery movies. <<<<

            No argument there, Bob. SEARCH clearly was done on the
            cheap and it shows. - MV
          • Mike Valerio
            ... sound one---
            Message 5 of 19 , Dec 1, 2003
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              >>>> I do think the basic premise of the show is a
              sound one--- <<<<

              As it was in the big screen motion picture that
              "inspired" Leslie Stevens' "creation" of SEARCH:
              1969�s THE CHAIRMAN, directed by J. Lee Thompson,
              starring Gregory Peck, based on the novel by Jay
              Richard Kennedy.

              >>>>>> ---and would work if they remade today. With
              all the miniaturization that we have today it would be
              totally believable. <<<<<

              Well, if you saw the recent RUNAWAY JURY, you saw the
              same kind of tech being employed, complete with the
              Control-like command center run by Gene Hackman.

              - MV
            • dghprobe3
              ... As David Gerrold once told me, the big race in Hollywood is to see who is the first to be second. ... Well, SEARCH had more of a lighthearted approach to
              Message 6 of 19 , Dec 1, 2003
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                --- In probe_control, Mike Valerio wrote:
                > ...the big screen motion picture that
                > "inspired" Leslie Stevens' "creation" of SEARCH:
                > 1969's THE CHAIRMAN...

                As David Gerrold once told me, the big race in Hollywood is to see
                who is the first to be second.

                > Well, if you saw the recent RUNAWAY JURY, you saw the
                > same kind of tech being employed, complete with the
                > Control-like command center run by Gene Hackman.

                Well, SEARCH had more of a lighthearted approach to the surveillance
                angle. Leslie Stevens obviously felt that technology was a force
                that could be made to help humanity. The whole "swords into
                plowshares" bit.

                I've only seen clips of "Runaway Jury," but it seems to be more like
                Stevens' earlier "Outer Limits" episode "O.B.I.T.," which observed
                the negative side and misuse of surveillance.

                --Don
              • crayresearch2001
                ... Many of the shows discussed on this list, I have never had the opprotunity of seeing, but I have collected and seen every episode of The Professionals
                Message 7 of 19 , Dec 1, 2003
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                  --- In probe_control@yahoogroups.com, "lazenbyland"
                  <lazenbyland@y...> wrote:

                  > Another show that I thought was great when it was shown was The
                  > Professionals which I think was too violent for the american
                  > networks. It starred Lewis Collins, Martin Shaw and Gordon Jackson.
                  > Its very , very dated nowadays though and extremely hard to watch.

                  Many of the shows discussed on this list, I have never had the
                  opprotunity of seeing, but I have collected and seen every episode of
                  "The Professionals" and can say that while being dated, it's not any
                  more (and maybe less) dated than SEARCH. CI5 (Criminal Intelligence)
                  also used a computer to help catch bad guys back in 1977, although it
                  was more realistic in an office setting than futuristic vis a vis
                  World Secureties. The Pros fans are refered to as a "cult". I guess
                  they could say the same about SEARCH fans, if there were more of us!
                  As far as extremely hard to watch goes, that all depends on which
                  side of the pond you're from. If you compare Pros to say The Sweeny
                  or Special Branch, It was all pretty rough and tough stuff. In alot
                  of theese episodes, the bad guy's walked at the end and this was part
                  of coming to terms with the reality in police work or government
                  mdddling in cases for a variety of reasons, This in very stark
                  contrast to the American TV shows where most all of the time the
                  star/hero always solves the case eg: Colombo,Cannon,The FBI etc.
                  One interesting point to note is that 16 years after the last episode
                  of The Professionals, there was enough interest in the series for a
                  remake called "The New Professionals" which was relitively succesfil
                  considering that there werent enough episodes made for syndication in
                  the US. More use of computers and high tech gagetry, but all in a
                  realistic/ beleivable way. Finally, my 4 cents : )

                  Don-2
                • dghprobe3
                  Hi Don-2: Thanks for your insightful comments on The Professionals. In a nutshell, it s probably ultimately fair to say that the initial intention for
                  Message 8 of 19 , Dec 1, 2003
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                    Hi Don-2: Thanks for your insightful comments on "The
                    Professionals." In a nutshell, it's probably ultimately fair to say
                    that the initial intention for SEARCH was to be a sort of high-
                    tech "Name of the Game." But after the set and format changes, it
                    became more of a "Cannon" with computers. Any reactions? :-)

                    --- In probe_control, "crayresearch2001" wrote:
                    > Many of the shows discussed on this list, I have never had the
                    > opprotunity of seeing, but I have collected and seen every episode
                    of "The Professionals" and can say that while being dated, it's not
                    any more (and maybe less) dated than SEARCH...
                  • yorktowncmdr@aol.com
                    In a message dated 11/30/2003 12:14:43 AM Eastern Standard Time, marta@steveandmarta.com writes: Patrick McGoohan is a god. :-) Well, I wouldn t go so far as
                    Message 9 of 19 , Dec 2, 2003
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                      In a message dated 11/30/2003 12:14:43 AM Eastern Standard Time,
                      marta@... writes:
                      Patrick McGoohan is a god. :-)
                      Well, I wouldn't go so far as to say that. I'm willing to accord the
                      characterization as genius though.

                      David




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                    • yorktowncmdr@aol.com
                      Remembering the programming for that TV season I would give SEARCH much credit. 1972-73 was a dead year except to the Mystery Movies. There was little else
                      Message 10 of 19 , Dec 2, 2003
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                        Remembering the programming for that TV season I would give SEARCH much
                        credit. 1972-73 was a dead year except to the Mystery Movies. There was little
                        else on the air except for some of the syndicated reruns. I cannot say it was a
                        great series, but it was enjoyable for me then and now as a few of you have
                        been helping me to see these episodes once again. SEARCH filled the gap for
                        the action/adventure/foreign intrique TV series after the cancellation of
                        Mission: Impossible and the airing of Six Million Dollar Man.


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                      • yorktowncmdr@aol.com
                        In a message dated 12/1/2003 12:32:27 PM Eastern Standard Time, ... Universal at the time and no doubt NBC was disappointed when Search didn t measure up to
                        Message 11 of 19 , Dec 2, 2003
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                          In a message dated 12/1/2003 12:32:27 PM Eastern Standard Time,
                          mvscreen@... writes:
                          >>>>> Warner made crappy TV shows compared to
                          Universal at the time and no doubt NBC was
                          disappointed when Search didn't measure up to the
                          Mystery movies. <<<<

                          No argument there, Bob. SEARCH clearly was done on the
                          cheap and it shows. - MV
                          I'm more forgiving about that. The American economy at the time was
                          spiralling downwards. Reflecting this the Apollo 17 launched in December 1972 was the
                          last mission to the moon (It's launch preempted SEARCH that Wednesday night).


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                        • dmanmetz@aol.com
                          Wow, with all the exciting discussions we’ve been having lately, I figured I had to put my two cents worth in. Cutting to the chase, sure we all know Search
                          Message 12 of 19 , Dec 5, 2003
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                            Wow, with all the exciting discussions we’ve been having lately, I figured I had to put my two cents worth in. Cutting to the chase, sure we all know Search pretty much became a crime drama during the last 8 episodes and they are not as much fun the first 15 episodes, but at least we should be thankful that the producers decided to go the serious gritty route as opposed to going the camp route such as “The Man from Uncle”. But one thing we have to keep in mind is that Search was a combination of ideas taken from the movies and tv shows (James Bond, Man from uncle, the Chairman, Our man Flint, Matt Helm, etc.) but paved the way for future agent/ action shows of the 70’s (Six Million Dollar Man, The Bionic Woman, The Invisible Man, Gemini Man, A man Called Sloan, etc). But Search was also ridding the wave of a popular format of the early to mid 70’s: “The gimmick detective”

                            “The Gimmick Detective”. All over TV land (no pun intended) there were gimmicks in each detective series. Examples would be the following: (here’s the fun part, how many of these do you remember)) the fat detective (Cannon), The old detective (Barnaby Jones), the paralyzed detective (Ironside), Young “ hip with it” detectives (Mod Squad) The Blind detective (Longstreet), The Black Female detective (Get Christie Love) The white female detective ( Police Woman),”Fish out of Water” detective ( McCloud), Bumbling Slow witted detective (Columbo) The sexy detectives (Charlie’s Angels), The magic Detective (The Magician), The Black detective (Tenafly), Elderly lady detectives (The Snoop sisters) The old west detective (Hec Ramsy), cool detectives (Starsky & Hutch), Based on real life detective (Toma), Movies adapted for tv detectives (Shaft, Madigan, Matt Helm), location is the star detective (Kodiak, Nakia, Hawaii Five-O, Streets of San Francisco) The Ex- Con detective (The Rockford Files), The period piece detective (Banyon), The Polish detective (Banacek), The Bald detective (Kojak), The Husband and wife detectives (McMillian and Wife), The Priest detective (Sarge), The ex-cop slowly dying detective (Harry-O), The medical detective (Quincy) and for some reason I don’t know what gimmick Mannix was? He started out kind of like Search in first season working for a large firm which relyed computers and then for the next 7 seasons, he was on his own beating the crap out everybody and getting shot. I guess he was the violent detective? You tell me. Oh yeah let’s forget the reason we are here…………………………..The electronic detective (Search).
                            Well, many of these shows liked and still due, but gimmicks only go so far and only three of them managed to successfully get past their gimmick based strong characters, good acting, and good writing and they were in one man’s opinion, The Rockford Files, Colombo, and even though it only made two seasons (Harry-O). And when I say this I mean this in all honesty and in a non- prejudice way. My all time favorite (Sorry guys, Search is my number two,) Starsky & Hutch never could top the format and quality of the first two seasons. The last two were pretty lame due to the fact that poor writing couldn’t overcome the gimmick. Any opinions?

                            Chris
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