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Recent Search Mention

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  • John
    The fourth book in the excellent These Are The Voyages series by Marc Cushman, covers Trek and Roddenberry in the first half of the 1970 s. And since he did
    Message 1 of 20 , May 30
      The fourth book in the excellent These Are The Voyages series by Marc Cushman, covers Trek and Roddenberry in the first half of the 1970's.  And since he did two pilots at Warner Brothers, and Robert Justman was unavailable for the first one, and worked on Questor at Universal, Search gets mentioned several times in this book:


      The most important of the references comes on page 524.  This was during the period after the Genisis II pilot had aired.  CBS hadn't ordered a series yet, but was  funding the development of a possible series, and Roddenberry was refining the format and getting stories ready for possible scripting.

      In responding to some of GR's suggested refinements. Warner exec Tom Khun was concerned about the superior tech that the PAX team would be using in their missions:

      "Your memo of July 10 reads beautifully, and I couldn't agree more with all the suggestions.

      I have one caution:  In doing the Search series, we found that the audience was somewhat turned off to our heroes because of the incredible technological advantages they had over their opponents.  Your mulitceiver/transceiver could fall into this category unless you exercise continual caution..."

      The author gives thumbnail descriptions of the various references that pop up in the book:

      "Search was a pseudo sci-fi series produced by Warner Bros. for NBC during the 1972-1973 season, produced by Star Trek's Robert H. Justman.  It was in contemporary times, and involved an organization called World Securities.  This international, high-tech private-investigation company equipped its field operatives with implanted audio receivers, as well as telemetry units and other various gadgets.  If you considered The Man From U.N.C.L.E. to be science fiction, then the label would fit here as well.  The TV audience didn't take to Search - it was cancelled after one season."

      I am sure that folks will have issues with Mr. Cushman's description of the show, but I think the more important point here is the perception that the good guys can't have too much of an advantage.  I kind of dismissed Mr. O'Brian's complaining about it, and I would usually dismiss anything coming from a "suit," but I am beginning to wonder if they had some audience research that backed that feeling up.

      If this reaches Mr. Cushman, I hope he doesn't mind the extended quote.  I want to say that I have all four Trek books, all three Lost In Space books, and the first one on Voyage To The Bottom Of The Sea.  They have my most positive endorsement.

      An example:  he purchased all of the Nielsen info for Trek's ratings, and they were not as bad as the legend says (the very first Trek episode run won its time slot, as did the first episode run of the third season.)

      Another example:  There was supposed to be an explanation given on LIS as to where the Space Pod came from, but they ended up having to cut it out.

      And if you want to know what day a particular scene was filmed for any episode of any of these shows, his books tell it.

      But right now, what do you folks think about an overly armed hero?
    • dghprobe3
      Hi John: Thanks for that post, it is interesting. Geoff also brought up some good points. Some of this discussion goes back to Commander Benson s March 2000
      Message 2 of 20 , May 31
        Hi John:  Thanks for that post, it is interesting.  Geoff also brought up some good points.

        Some of this discussion goes back to Commander Benson's March 2000 post discussing the Probe pilot.  Among other things, the climactic ending scene between young and athletic Lockwood vs. the older and sedentary Streeter had a "Bambi vs. Godzilla" quality to it.  "The Murrow Disappearance" had a similar ending with the young and athletic Lockwood vs. the older and sedentary Mr. White.

        Star Trek TOS, as Geoff and others have mentioned, had a similar problem, which is why Kirk and his landing party often had their communicators and phasers taken from them.  How do you construct a plot where the hero(es) have a high tech advantage?  How do you construct a worthy villain or adversary?  How can you hold the attention of the audience and keep things interesting and believable?  

        I'm sure many in the TV audience of 1972 felt that the technology as presented in Search wasn't very believable.  With Star Trek, the suspension of disbelief was different as that series was placed in the far future.  Search, however, was set in the time it was made, 1972-73.  I'm sure a lot of people tuned in to Search back then, and after a few minutes decided "nobody could do all that," and changed the channel.

        Originally, the idea of Probe was set in 1999, as John Strong said. The agent was likened to an astronaut being observed in real time by--and in constant contact with--a mission control center, seeking "that which is missing."  Some episodes had that feeling.  But as the series went along, it became more and more like most other detective shows.  The first 15 episodes, to me, were like a combination of "It Takes a Thief" and "The Name of the Game."  Leslie Stevens wanted the romantic crime caper formula.  But the network wanted the show to be more serious with grittier crime stories.  The last eight episodes became "Quinn Martin-ized", as John mentioned once.

        In baseball, there is such a thing as the home field advantage.  But this usually turns out to be only a slight advantage.  With Search, the advantages to the hero were more pronounced, which led to Hugh O'Brian's observation that the audience ended up rooting for the bad guy because the good guy had all these high tech gimmicks stacked in his favor.  As John said, maybe the studio and/or network suits had audience reaction evidence surrounding this?  So how does one structure interesting and compelling scripts for a series premise like this?

        The TV Tropes site has some articles regarding balanced playing fields vs. overly one-sided conflicts.  Some portions of these articles pertain to Search in different ways:

        "The Bullet" was probably among the stronger Search episodes as the situation started off one way ("get the formula"), but when Lockwood got shot by the toxic bullet, the mission was suddenly altered by necessity ("save the agent").  The odds against the agent making it at all appeared grim indeed.  As Bryan pointed out earlier here, "The Bullet" has the effective use of Probe Control leaping into action in giving Lockwood the bona fides he needed to placate the obnoxious Col. Nobokov, if only temporarily.  

        As Judy Burns mentioned in my chat with her, the mystery included some false leads, such as the dying scientist's last words about "the border."  At first, everyone thought he was talking about a country border, but later Lockwood found it was about the formula hidden in the border somewhere on the suitcase.

        Then the actors complained that they were basically puppets on a string, being reluctantly ordered about by Cameron.  So we got more formulaic episodes like "Let Us Prey," where the agent was cut off from Probe Control completely, having to survive by his own wits.  Which, of course, undermined the point of the format of the series, which was the use of high tech in solving crimes.  

        In the Bob Justman interviews, he mentioned that Search was puzzling and seemed empty to him, but unfortunately he didn't elaborate.  Of course, this contrasts with the enthusiasm about the series which we have read from folks like John Strong and Angel Tompkins.

        Then there was my previous discussion of Season 7 of the Mission Impossible series, which coincided with Search (1972-73).  A number of Mission episodes share overtones with various Search episodes regarding, among other things, the problem of high tech being possibly too much of an advantage to the good guys.


      • gf willmetts
        Hello Don Some good observations there. I did have a ponder on what they could have done better. With season 2, there might have been greater knowledge of
        Message 3 of 20 , Jun 1

          Hello Don

           

          Some good observations there. I did have a ponder on what they could have done better. With season 2, there might have been greater knowledge of World Securities’ success rate. If I was a rival company, I might build up my own team if only to get those rich government contracts and so there might be some interference from time to time.

          Would criminal organisations do the same thing or get jamming devices. It would also mean Cameron would also have to be busy coming up with counter-measures,

           

          Geoff



          ***************  Geoff Willmetts    editor, SFCrowsnest.info and other suffixes ****************
           
                     SFCrowsnest.info is the biggest SF website in Europe and second biggest in the world 
                           and that's only because the first is a commerical site and they look to what we do!

            NOTE THE NEW WEBSITE LINK IN YOUR FAVOURITES LIST
           
          *************************************************************************************


        • jeffhaas2sorrent
          I think one thing being overlooked in the conversation about the Search Probes (or the IMF agents) is that they are a small team going up against something
          Message 4 of 20 , Jun 12
            I think one thing being overlooked in the conversation about the Search Probes (or the IMF agents) is that they are a small team going up against something much bigger.  At least, that's how it should be set up - so that the tech advantages are more to "even the odds" instead of giving the heroes an overwhelming advantage.

            In the years since Search, the whole concept of the controller working with the agent in the field has been folded into spy movies as a regular part of things.  I remember when I saw Max Headroom - it was the first time I'd seen the idea since Search!  And they updated the concept really well, adding 3D maps of buildings and more to what Theora Jones could access.

            The current Mission: Impossible movies (hey, the more recent ones are actually really good!), the SpiderMan Homecoming movie ("I want to be the guy in the chair!") and even the comedy Spy use these ideas.

            Question: Was there a use of the mission control + connected field agent in any TV show or movie before Search? 
          • LambuLambu@aol.com
            To answer the question - and I know it s been discussed here in the past (quite a while ago, if I m not mistaken): The 1969 film The Chairman (not to be
            Message 5 of 20 , Jun 12
              To answer the question - and I know it's been discussed here in the past (quite a while ago, if I'm not mistaken): The 1969 film "The Chairman" (not to be confused with the 1964 Russian drama film of the same name) was sort of such a film. It starred Gregory Peck as the agent who was linked to a control center via a transmitter implanted in his skull (can't remember if the exact location of the implant was ever mentioned; someone else might remember).

              The reason I say "sort of" is because this was a one-way thing (in more ways than one!). As the implant's description suggests, it is a "transmitter"; those back at the control center can only hear what the agent (Peck's character) is saying and hearing; Control cannot see any imagery, or send info to Peck because the implant has no receiver... other than one for a specific function. This little transmitter contains an explosive, and should Peck's character fail in his mission to recover whatever it was he's after, or is captured and not able to escape, then Control can send a signal to detonate the explosive, thereby blowing Peck's head off so he can't give away any vital information while under torture or truth serums, and thus, making this a one-way mission for him. (It's a really good film, so if you can find it on one of the movie channels, or something like Turner Classic Movies, either watch it, or DVR it so you can watch it more than once.)

              I'm sure others will have more info on "The Chairman", and other TV shows or films that came before 'Search' and had similar technology, or something closer to what we had in 'Search'. But for now, I hope this is helpful.

              end run,
              Dino.


              -----Original Message-----
              From: jeffhaas2sorrent@... [probe_control] <probe_control@yahoogroups.com>
              To: probe_control <probe_control@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Wed, Jun 12, 2019 2:03 pm
              Subject: Re: [probe_control] Re: Recent Search Mention

               
              I think one thing being overlooked in the conversation about the Search Probes (or the IMF agents) is that they are a small team going up against something much bigger.  At least, that's how it should be set up - so that the tech advantages are more to "even the odds" instead of giving the heroes an overwhelming advantage.

              In the years since Search, the whole concept of the controller working with the agent in the field has been folded into spy movies as a regular part of things.  I remember when I saw Max Headroom - it was the first time I'd seen the idea since Search!  And they updated the concept really well, adding 3D maps of buildings and more to what Theora Jones could access.

              The current Mission: Impossible movies (hey, the more recent ones are actually really good!), the SpiderMan Homecoming movie ("I want to be the guy in the chair!") and even the comedy Spy use these ideas.

              Question: Was there a use of the mission control + connected field agent in any TV show or movie before Search? 

            • Stephen Russell
              Only the Chairman movie had Search tech then vs earlier, know of none prior movie On Wednesday, June 12, 2019, 8:50:29 PM PDT, LambuLambu@aol.com
              Message 6 of 20 , Jun 13
                Only the Chairman movie had Search tech then vs earlier, know of none prior movie

                On Wednesday, June 12, 2019, 8:50:29 PM PDT, 'LambuLambu@...' LambuLambu@... [probe_control] <probe_control@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


                 

                To answer the question - and I know it's been discussed here in the past (quite a while ago, if I'm not mistaken): The 1969 film "The Chairman" (not to be confused with the 1964 Russian drama film of the same name) was sort of such a film. It starred Gregory Peck as the agent who was linked to a control center via a transmitter implanted in his skull (can't remember if the exact location of the implant was ever mentioned; someone else might remember).

                The reason I say "sort of" is because this was a one-way thing (in more ways than one!). As the implant's description suggests, it is a "transmitter"; those back at the control center can only hear what the agent (Peck's character) is saying and hearing; Control cannot see any imagery, or send info to Peck because the implant has no receiver... other than one for a specific function. This little transmitter contains an explosive, and should Peck's character fail in his mission to recover whatever it was he's after, or is captured and not able to escape, then Control can send a signal to detonate the explosive, thereby blowing Peck's head off so he can't give away any vital information while under torture or truth serums, and thus, making this a one-way mission for him. (It's a really good film, so if you can find it on one of the movie channels, or something like Turner Classic Movies, either watch it, or DVR it so you can watch it more than once.)

                I'm sure others will have more info on "The Chairman", and other TV shows or films that came before 'Search' and had similar technology, or something closer to what we had in 'Search'. But for now, I hope this is helpful.

                end run,
                Dino.


                -----Original Message-----
                From: jeffhaas2sorrent@... [probe_control] <probe_control@yahoogroups.com>
                To: probe_control <probe_control@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Wed, Jun 12, 2019 2:03 pm
                Subject: Re: [probe_control] Re: Recent Search Mention

                 
                I think one thing being overlooked in the conversation about the Search Probes (or the IMF agents) is that they are a small team going up against something much bigger.  At least, that's how it should be set up - so that the tech advantages are more to "even the odds" instead of giving the heroes an overwhelming advantage.

                In the years since Search, the whole concept of the controller working with the agent in the field has been folded into spy movies as a regular part of things.  I remember when I saw Max Headroom - it was the first time I'd seen the idea since Search!  And they updated the concept really well, adding 3D maps of buildings and more to what Theora Jones could access.

                The current Mission: Impossible movies (hey, the more recent ones are actually really good!), the SpiderMan Homecoming movie ("I want to be the guy in the chair!") and even the comedy Spy use these ideas.

                Question: Was there a use of the mission control + connected field agent in any TV show or movie before Search? 

              • dghprobe3
                [Question: Was there a use of the mission control + connected field agent in any TV show or movie before Search?] The Gregory Peck movie The Chairman has
                Message 7 of 20 , Jun 14
                  [Question: Was there a use of the mission control + connected field agent in any TV show or movie before Search?]

                  The Gregory Peck movie "The Chairman" has been mentioned, and some have said that movie could have been an unofficial pilot to the Probe/Search series, or it otherwise somehow "inspired" Leslie Stevens.  The movie was released in June 1969.

                  However, before "The Chairman" was released, there was an April 2, 1968 episode of It Takes a Thief entitled "Turnabout" (#1.12), where Noah Bain had to accomplish the mission in place of an injured Alexander Mundy.  Bain was monitored as well as coached by Mundy in his hospital bed through the use of a tiny radio and ear flap, with often hilarious results.  

                  Leslie Stevens was involved with the series, however, the actual teleplay was by Gene L. Coon of Star Trek, from a story outline by Mort Zarcoff and Gene L. Coon.  I notice Stevens' name does not actually appear in the episode.  Maybe Zarcoff was a pen name for Leslie Stevens?  Gene L. Coon did have Lee Cronin as a pen name.  And I notice Gene Coon and Leslie Stevens have a similar sense of humor in their character-driven writing.

                  In any case, this was sort of a TV version of the idea expressed in "The Chairman" of having an agent in constant audio contact with a home base person who stood ready to offer needed--and at times humorous--information.  Much of the concept of this episode became a part of Search.  So was Gene L. Coon, along with Mort Zarcoff, actually the inspiration for this concept which became Search?  Again, this episode of It Takes a Thief appeared over a year before "The Chairman" was released to theaters.
                • gf willmetts
                  Hello Don I saw that It Takes A Thief episode when I managed to pull season 1 on DVD. I think the Mission: Impossible episode when they were monitoring a
                  Message 8 of 20 , Jun 15
                    Hello Don

                    I saw that 'It Takes A Thief' episode when I managed to pull season 1 on DVD. I think the 'Mission: Impossible' episode when they were monitoring a game of chess with Rollin Hand in the chair predates that.
                      Saying that, any card game or chess or whatever that cheated by such means would also predate that. This being the case Ian Fleming beats them all with 'Goldfinger' with the book in 1959 and the film in 1964.

                    Geoff

                    ***************  Geoff Willmetts    editor, SFCrowsnest.info and other suffixes ****************
                     
                               SFCrowsnest.info is the biggest SF website in Europe and second biggest in the world 
                                     and that's only because the first is a commerical site and they look to what we do!

                      NOTE THE NEW WEBSITE LINK IN YOUR FAVOURITES LIST
                     
                    *************************************************************************************



                    From: probe_control@yahoogroups.com <probe_control@yahoogroups.com> on behalf of dghprobe3@... [probe_control] <probe_control@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: 15 June 2019 04:39
                    To: probe_control@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [probe_control] Re: Recent Search Mention
                     
                     

                    [Question: Was there a use of the mission control + connected field agent in any TV show or movie before Search?]

                    The Gregory Peck movie "The Chairman" has been mentioned, and some have said that movie could have been an unofficial pilot to the Probe/Search series, or it otherwise somehow "inspired" Leslie Stevens.  The movie was released in June 1969.

                    However, before "The Chairman" was released, there was an April 2, 1968 episode of It Takes a Thief entitled "Turnabout" (#1.12), where Noah Bain had to accomplish the mission in place of an injured Alexander Mundy.  Bain was monitored as well as coached by Mundy in his hospital bed through the use of a tiny radio and ear flap, with often hilarious results.  

                    Leslie Stevens was involved with the series, however, the actual teleplay was by Gene L. Coon of Star Trek, from a story outline by Mort Zarcoff and Gene L. Coon.  I notice Stevens' name does not actually appear in the episode.  Maybe Zarcoff was a pen name for Leslie Stevens?  Gene L. Coon did have Lee Cronin as a pen name.  And I notice Gene Coon and Leslie Stevens have a similar sense of humor in their character-driven writing.

                    In any case, this was sort of a TV version of the idea expressed in "The Chairman" of having an agent in constant audio contact with a home base person who stood ready to offer needed--and at times humorous--information.  Much of the concept of this episode became a part of Search.  So was Gene L. Coon, along with Mort Zarcoff, actually the inspiration for this concept which became Search?  Again, this episode of It Takes a Thief appeared over a year before "The Chairman" was released to theaters.

                  • dghprobe3
                    It takes a Thief: Turnabout - Part 1 of 4 parts: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFPdq59nN7A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFPdq59nN7A Part 2:
                    Message 9 of 20 , Jun 15
                    • Stephen Russell
                      only audio feed to Al, No visual. alas On Saturday, June 15, 2019, 5:29:07 PM PDT, dghprobe3@aol.com [probe_control] wrote:  
                      Message 10 of 20 , Jun 15
                        only audio feed to Al, No visual. alas

                        On Saturday, June 15, 2019, 5:29:07 PM PDT, dghprobe3@... [probe_control] <probe_control@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


                      • dghprobe3
                        Hi Geoff: You are correct, I was sorta trying to stay with examples of things with which Leslie Stevens and/or Bob Justman (who worked closely with Gene Coon
                        Message 11 of 20 , Jun 15
                          Hi Geoff:  You are correct, I was sorta trying to stay with examples of things with which Leslie Stevens and/or Bob Justman (who worked closely with Gene Coon on Star Trek) were associated prior to Search.  Many felt that Leslie Stevens may have ripped off aspects of "The Chairman," but it is interesting to note that the It Takes a Thief "Turnabout" episode was over a year earlier.  

                          And, yes, the James Bond books and movies are what started the spy boom of the 1960s in the first place, leading to The Man From UNCLE and everything else.  With Bond, however, the villains were so nasty, so insane, and so over the top that audiences enjoyed seeing Bond give them their just desserts.  By comparison, with the Probe pilot and "The Murrow Disappearance," there is that Godzilla vs. Bambi quality between the young and strong Lockwood and the old and feeble Streeter and Mr. White.  While Danzig of "Let Us Prey" was one of the more detestable Bond-like Search villains, that episode was also the most formulaic story they had, undermining the actual series format.

                          Search production people also associated with the previous Man from UNCLE series includes Anthony Spinner (produced UNCLE's 4th season), Irving Pearlberg (associate producer and producer), Barry Shear (directed seven UNCLE episodes), Norman Hudis (wrote six episodes), and Jack Turley.  When Search came along, most critics dismissed it as a rip-off of Man From UNCLE, but what Search was doing was moving the technology up to the next level of video and telemetry monitoring, as if the agent were an astronaut being monitored by a mission control center.  Yes, Mission Impossible was different as the team went out in the field as a unit creating deception and confusion among the bad guys, but there was still an emphasis on the use of technology as an aid to their missions, and at times some of their situations bore similarities to situations we saw in Search.

                          By 1972 when Search came along, the spy trend was diminishing anyway.  And there is a tendency for us to cover old ground again whenever these questions arise, but my post was partly an attempt to compile portions of several past discussions over time into one place.
                        • dghprobe3
                          For those who haven t seen it before, below is a link to Mission Impossible A Game of Chess, #2.17 (first aired January 14, 1968).
                          Message 12 of 20 , Jun 15
                            For those who haven't seen it before, below is a link to Mission Impossible "A Game of Chess," #2.17 (first aired January 14, 1968).
                            The IMF's target is an international chess grandmaster who also is planning to steal gold seized from the opposition movement of an unnamed Soviet Bloc country. Rollin poses as an amateur chess player, helped by a computer Barney is running that is unbeatable at chess. The plan, devised by Phelps, also calls for a devious way of snatching the gold from both the chess player and the authorities.  

                            Cinnamon has a tiny video camera hidden in a brooch in order to spy on the chess game, while Jim sends the moves to Rollin over his hearing aid.  Interesting that the cheating got exposed some 17 minutes into the episode, but game play continued with the computer.  However, some claim that the chess moves made in this episode included mistakes that a grandmaster would never make.  There are other episodes which include sending audio, but this episode is one which included sending video, though it was limited.  Aspects of this episode were sci-fi at the time, but not today.

                            There are no Search production connections, but actor William Wintersole is in this episode, and he appeared in "Moonrock" as Dr. Van Owen and in Star Trek "Patterns of Force."

                            Mission being a Desilu/Paramount production, one of the ubiquitous props was the large vault door which appears in this episode.  The same vault door appeared in Star Trek "Assignment Earth," which included James Bond high tech spy-fi overtones with the apparently alien-assisted "Gary Seven" played by Robert Lansing.

                            In this Mission Impossible episode, the technology was used to help the IMF team cheat at chess.  In Search "The Murrow Disappearance," the Probe technology was used to detect someone else using tech to cheat at poker.  Mission Impossible tended to rely on setting up elaborate scenarios with disguises to fool the bad guys.  While Search was more about the agent, often acting with a cover, interacting with subjects with informative assistance from Probe Control regarding pulse rates, the possibility of lying, nervousness, and so forth.  Part of the task was to narrow down the list of suspects.  

                            The agent knew he was getting close to something whenever he saw that he was being set up for a kill, which was often in some episodes.  The main bad guy would turn out to be the one you would least suspect, so that was another predictable part of the formula.  In Mission Impossible, the bad guys were known and described at the beginning of the episode before the tape self-destructed.  After that the question was what methods would the IMF team use to set up and defeat the bad guys.
                          • dghprobe3
                            Here is an excerpt from that early scene in Goldfinger by the hotel pool where Auric Goldfinger s high tech method (for its time) of cheating at cards is
                            Message 13 of 20 , Jun 15
                              Here is an excerpt from that early scene in Goldfinger by the hotel pool where Auric Goldfinger's high tech method (for its time) of cheating at cards is busted by James Bond.  It was a small part of the movie, but it set the stage for what was to occur later.

                              As Geoff mentioned, the movie was released in 1964 and the book released in 1959.


                              Ian Fleming had originally conceived the card game scene as a separate short story but instead used the device for Bond and Goldfinger's first encounter.

                              It should be pointed out that Ian Fleming had a naval intelligence background.  Leslie Stevens was the son of U.S. Navy Vice Admiral Leslie Stevens III, who played roles in the National Security Council system among other things.

                              Gene Roddenberry was on The Outer Limits set watching the dailies and practically running an office there while he was setting up Star Trek, apparently with uncredited help from Leslie Stevens.  Notice that Star Trek was a futuristic extension of the U.S. Navy.  The Enterprise was like a battleship or aircraft carrier in the 23rd Century.  It was like the series was agreed-upon soft disclosure of coming future technology.  Star Trek also contained a nod to Ian Fleming with the "Gary Seven" alien-assisted spy-fi character in "Assignment Earth."  Then we have Leslie Stevens' technology-driven Search spy-fi series a few years later.

                              Interesting how actor Malachi Throne is connected with so many of the series which we have been discussing.  In The Outer Limits, he co-starred as Shatner's "Project Vulcan" doctor in "Cold Hands, Warm Heart."  For Star Trek, he did the original Keeper's voice in "The Cage," and had a key role as Mendez in "The Menagerie."  From there he co-starred in the Stevens-Coon It Takes a Thief series and was featured in the Coon-written "Turnabout" episode which featured aspects of what would become the Search format.  And Throne also appeared in Search "The Bullet" as Col. Nobokov, as well as two episodes of Mission Impossible.  Throne also appeared with Leonard Nimoy in Star Trek The Next Generation, "Unification II."

                              -------------------------------


                              ---In probe_control@yahoogroups.com, <gfwillmetts-2@...> wrote :

                              Hello Don

                              I saw that 'It Takes A Thief' episode when I managed to pull season 1 on DVD. I think the 'Mission: Impossible' episode when they were monitoring a game of chess with Rollin Hand in the chair predates that.
                                Saying that, any card game or chess or whatever that cheated by such means would also predate that. This being the case Ian Fleming beats them all with 'Goldfinger' with the book in 1959 and the film in 1964.

                              Geoff


                            • gf willmetts
                              Hello Don You covered a lot of ground there. I think Search did more to bring it all together. With the other shows, it was more like a gimmick of the week
                              Message 14 of 20 , Jun 16
                                Hello Don

                                You covered a lot of ground there.
                                  I think 'Search' did more to bring it all together. With the other shows, it was more like a gimmick of the week rather than exploit it on a regular basis.

                                Back then, villains were often portrayed as being larger than life so you knew they were the bad guys. Unlike westerns, they just couldn't wear black hats. Saying that, I've seen enough early westerns now to realise that is also a fallacy. All colours were worn but the heroes would have the lighter hats.

                                Malachi Throne was the go-to-actor for all sorts of roles. It's either that or had a fantastic agent.

                                Geoff 

                                ***************  Geoff Willmetts    editor, SFCrowsnest.info and other suffixes ****************
                                 
                                           SFCrowsnest.info is the biggest SF website in Europe and second biggest in the world 
                                                 and that's only because the first is a commerical site and they look to what we do!

                                  NOTE THE NEW WEBSITE LINK IN YOUR FAVOURITES LIST
                                 
                                *************************************************************************************



                                From: probe_control@yahoogroups.com <probe_control@yahoogroups.com> on behalf of dghprobe3@... [probe_control] <probe_control@yahoogroups.com>
                                Sent: 16 June 2019 02:15
                                To: probe_control@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: Re: [probe_control] Re: Recent Search Mention
                                 
                                 

                                Hi Geoff:  You are correct, I was sorta trying to stay with examples of things with which Leslie Stevens and/or Bob Justman (who worked closely with Gene Coon on Star Trek) were associated prior to Search.  Many felt that Leslie Stevens may have ripped off aspects of "The Chairman," but it is interesting to note that the It Takes a Thief "Turnabout" episode was over a year earlier.  

                                And, yes, the James Bond books and movies are what started the spy boom of the 1960s in the first place, leading to The Man From UNCLE and everything else.  With Bond, however, the villains were so nasty, so insane, and so over the top that audiences enjoyed seeing Bond give them their just desserts.  By comparison, with the Probe pilot and "The Murrow Disappearance," there is that Godzilla vs. Bambi quality between the young and strong Lockwood and the old and feeble Streeter and Mr. White.  While Danzig of "Let Us Prey" was one of the more detestable Bond-like Search villains, that episode was also the most formulaic story they had, undermining the actual series format.

                                Search production people also associated with the previous Man from UNCLE series includes Anthony Spinner (produced UNCLE's 4th season), Irving Pearlberg (associate producer and producer), Barry Shear (directed seven UNCLE episodes), Norman Hudis (wrote six episodes), and Jack Turley.  When Search came along, most critics dismissed it as a rip-off of Man From UNCLE, but what Search was doing was moving the technology up to the next level of video and telemetry monitoring, as if the agent were an astronaut being monitored by a mission control center.  Yes, Mission Impossible was different as the team went out in the field as a unit creating deception and confusion among the bad guys, but there was still an emphasis on the use of technology as an aid to their missions, and at times some of their situations bore similarities to situations we saw in Search.

                                By 1972 when Search came along, the spy trend was diminishing anyway.  And there is a tendency for us to cover old ground again whenever these questions arise, but my post was partly an attempt to compile portions of several past discussions over time into one place.

                              • dghprobe3
                                Geoff: Predating James Bond was the Dick Tracy two-way wrist radio which first appeared on January 13, 1946. While Dick Tracy was a police-oriented comic
                                Message 15 of 20 , Jun 27
                                  Geoff:  Predating James Bond was the Dick Tracy two-way wrist radio which first appeared on January 13, 1946.  While Dick Tracy was a police-oriented comic strip, there were larger than life villains and situations.  And by 1964, the two-way Wrist Radio became the two-way Wrist TV.

                                  ----------------

                                  The comic strip detective’s creator, Chester Gould, had introduced the futuristic device in 1946, after he scripted Tracy into a jam from which there seemed no credible escape.

                                  Gould decided that he would go high-concept and have Tracy appeal directly to his inky-fingered creator. Gould figured he could then just extricate Tracy from the predicament Manus Dei.

                                  But Gould’s employer, the Chicago Tribune, rejected the idea as a cheat...  

                                  In the comic strip, the two-way wrist radio is created by a young inventor named Brilliant.  He develops another seemingly impossible gadget for Tracy conceived by the real-life Gross:  a compact, battery-powered video surveillance camera...

                                  ----------------

                                  In June of 1954, the radio was upgraded to increase the range from 500 miles to 1,000 miles, then again in 1956 to 2,500 miles.  In 1964, the two-way Wrist Radio was upgraded to the two-Way Wrist TV. 

                                  (By 1964, the James Bond and spy movie and TV trend was already underway.) 

                                • gf willmetts
                                  Hello Don That was just the equivalent of a walkie-talkie, wasn t it?? I ve only watched one of the three Dick Tracy films from the 1930s that I ve recorded
                                  Message 16 of 20 , Jun 28
                                    Hello Don

                                    That was just the equivalent of a walkie-talkie, wasn't it??
                                      I've only watched one of the three Dick Tracy films from the 1930s that I've recorded from one of our channels in the UK, but looks like it came after them.
                                      As with the regular police, and seeing old British films where our police had to blow a whistle or find a police box to ring from, which is also mirrored in the USA, it would only be a matter of time that was improved upon and look at the difference in policing that happened. Dick Tracy was just an extension of that.

                                    In many respects, PROBEs are the nearest thing to commercial spies except they have access to communication that spies wouldn't have simply because it makes finding them easier.

                                    Geoff

                                    ***************  Geoff Willmetts    editor, SFCrowsnest.info and other suffixes ****************
                                     
                                               SFCrowsnest.info is the biggest SF website in Europe and second biggest in the world 
                                                     and that's only because the first is a commerical site and they look to what we do!

                                      NOTE THE NEW WEBSITE LINK IN YOUR FAVOURITES LIST
                                     
                                    *************************************************************************************



                                    From: probe_control@yahoogroups.com <probe_control@yahoogroups.com> on behalf of dghprobe3@... [probe_control] <probe_control@yahoogroups.com>
                                    Sent: 28 June 2019 03:11
                                    To: probe_control@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: Re: [probe_control] Re: Recent Search Mention
                                     
                                     

                                    Geoff:  Predating James Bond was the Dick Tracy two-way wrist radio which first appeared on January 13, 1946.  While Dick Tracy was a police-oriented comic strip, there were larger than life villains and situations.  And by 1964, the two-way Wrist Radio became the two-way Wrist TV.

                                    ----------------

                                    The comic strip detective’s creator, Chester Gould, had introduced the futuristic device in 1946, after he scripted Tracy into a jam from which there seemed no credible escape.

                                    Gould decided that he would go high-concept and have Tracy appeal directly to his inky-fingered creator. Gould figured he could then just extricate Tracy from the predicament Manus Dei.

                                    But Gould’s employer, the Chicago Tribune, rejected the idea as a cheat...  

                                    In the comic strip, the two-way wrist radio is created by a young inventor named Brilliant.  He develops another seemingly impossible gadget for Tracy conceived by the real-life Gross:  a compact, battery-powered video surveillance camera...

                                    ----------------

                                    In June of 1954, the radio was upgraded to increase the range from 500 miles to 1,000 miles, then again in 1956 to 2,500 miles.  In 1964, the two-way Wrist Radio was upgraded to the two-Way Wrist TV. 

                                    (By 1964, the James Bond and spy movie and TV trend was already underway.) 

                                  • dghprobe3
                                    Hi Geoff: You are correct, the Dick Tracy two-way Wrist Radio was essentially a walkie-talkie, but it had extended range, so it was beyond consumer type
                                    Message 17 of 20 , Jun 29
                                      Hi Geoff:  You are correct, the Dick Tracy two-way Wrist Radio was essentially a walkie-talkie, but it had extended range, so it was beyond consumer type walkie-talkies.  I was just looking for anything which possibly pre-dated James Bond. :)  And there was also the "compact, battery-powered video surveillance camera," so it wasn't just walkie-talkies. 

                                      They advanced the two-way Wrist Radio to two-way Wrist TV in 1964, which was just after the first Bond films but about seven years before Probe/Search.
                                    • gf willmetts
                                      Hello Don By 1964, having a two-way radio watch was comparable to what police carried in their cars so adding a TV seemed a logical move. I suspect if they
                                      Message 18 of 20 , Jun 29
                                        Hello Don

                                        By 1964, having a two-way radio watch was comparable to what police carried in their cars so adding a TV seemed a logical move. I suspect if they were told one day that a mobile phone could do all that and more then there would be a lot of laughter.
                                          In many respects, 'Search' led the way in greater development. Even back in the 1990s, when I lent someone my PROBE video pilot, he didn't think a camera that small was possible and now we have cameras even smaller than that. Having a built in earjack does seem reasonable and if it wasn't for those miniature bugs some spies use in their ears, it would have been the next logical step.

                                        Geoff

                                        ***************  Geoff Willmetts    editor, SFCrowsnest.info and other suffixes ****************
                                         
                                                   SFCrowsnest.info is the biggest SF website in Europe and second biggest in the world 
                                                         and that's only because the first is a commerical site and they look to what we do!

                                          NOTE THE NEW WEBSITE LINK IN YOUR FAVOURITES LIST
                                         
                                        *************************************************************************************



                                        From: probe_control@yahoogroups.com <probe_control@yahoogroups.com> on behalf of dghprobe3@... [probe_control] <probe_control@yahoogroups.com>
                                        Sent: 29 June 2019 15:25
                                        To: probe_control@yahoogroups.com
                                        Subject: Re: [probe_control] Re: Recent Search Mention
                                         
                                         

                                        Hi Geoff:  You are correct, the Dick Tracy two-way Wrist Radio was essentially a walkie-talkie, but it had extended range, so it was beyond consumer type walkie-talkies.  I was just looking for anything which possibly pre-dated James Bond. :)  And there was also the "compact, battery-powered video surveillance camera," so it wasn't just walkie-talkies. 

                                        They advanced the two-way Wrist Radio to two-way Wrist TV in 1964, which was just after the first Bond films but about seven years before Probe/Search.

                                      • dghprobe3
                                        Beyond the technology, also mixed in is the issue of surveillance. Leslie Stevens earlier Outer Limits episode OBIT (Outer Band Individuated Tracer)
                                        Message 19 of 20 , Jun 29


                                          Beyond the technology, also mixed in is the issue of surveillance.  Leslie Stevens' earlier Outer Limits episode "OBIT" (Outer Band Individuated Tracer) explored the dark side of surveillance, while Probe/Search saw it as a positive aid to humanity in solving crimes and such.  Predating "OBIT" is the George Orwell novel "Nineteen Eighty-Four," released in 1949, about a negative "Big Brother" surveillance state.
                                          The later series, Person of Interest (2011-2016), takes us back somewhat toward the "OBIT" and "1984" dark side of surveillance, adding elements of AI.


                                          8680The Outer Limits, O.B.I.T. & Surveillance


                                          8962'Person of Interest' & 'O.B.I.T.'




                                          ---In probe_control@yahoogroups.com, <gfwillmetts-2@...> wrote :

                                          Hello Don

                                          By 1964, having a two-way radio watch was comparable to what police carried in their cars so adding a TV seemed a logical move. I suspect if they were told one day that a mobile phone could do all that and more then there would be a lot of laughter.
                                            In many respects, 'Search' led the way in greater development. Even back in the 1990s, when I lent someone my PROBE video pilot, he didn't think a camera that small was possible and now we have cameras even smaller than that. Having a built in earjack does seem reasonable and if it wasn't for those miniature bugs some spies use in their ears, it would have been the next logical step.

                                          Geoff


                                        • gf willmetts
                                          Hello Don All technology has dark and good sides. The 1984 aspects of current street surveillance has cropped up from time to time but there is so much
                                          Message 20 of 20 , Jun 29
                                            Hello Don

                                            All technology has dark and good sides. The '1984' aspects of current street surveillance has cropped up from time to time but there is so much footage, short of heavy duty computer analysis and that can only focus on persons of interest, it tends to be used after the fact. The effect of tracking bombers to their handlers in London and the poisoners in Salisbury has shown how effective it can be.
                                              It's a rather ironic that spies want to watch other spies but probably would rather not want their own activities under survelliance.

                                            Geoff

                                            ***************  Geoff Willmetts    editor, SFCrowsnest.info and other suffixes ****************
                                             
                                                       SFCrowsnest.info is the biggest SF website in Europe and second biggest in the world 
                                                             and that's only because the first is a commerical site and they look to what we do!

                                              NOTE THE NEW WEBSITE LINK IN YOUR FAVOURITES LIST
                                             
                                            *************************************************************************************



                                            From: probe_control@yahoogroups.com <probe_control@yahoogroups.com> on behalf of dghprobe3@... [probe_control] <probe_control@yahoogroups.com>
                                            Sent: 29 June 2019 18:05
                                            To: probe_control@yahoogroups.com
                                            Subject: Re: [probe_control] Re: Recent Search Mention
                                             
                                             


                                            Beyond the technology, also mixed in is the issue of surveillance.  Leslie Stevens' earlier Outer Limits episode "OBIT" (Outer Band Individuated Tracer) explored the dark side of surveillance, while Probe/Search saw it as a positive aid to humanity in solving crimes and such.  Predating "OBIT" is the George Orwell novel "Nineteen Eighty-Four," released in 1949, about a negative "Big Brother" surveillance state.
                                            The later series, Person of Interest (2011-2016), takes us back somewhat toward the "OBIT" and "1984" dark side of surveillance, adding elements of AI.


                                            8680The Outer Limits, O.B.I.T. & Surveillance


                                            8962'Person of Interest' & 'O.B.I.T.'




                                            ---In probe_control@yahoogroups.com, <gfwillmetts-2@...> wrote :

                                            Hello Don

                                            By 1964, having a two-way radio watch was comparable to what police carried in their cars so adding a TV seemed a logical move. I suspect if they were told one day that a mobile phone could do all that and more then there would be a lot of laughter.
                                              In many respects, 'Search' led the way in greater development. Even back in the 1990s, when I lent someone my PROBE video pilot, he didn't think a camera that small was possible and now we have cameras even smaller than that. Having a built in earjack does seem reasonable and if it wasn't for those miniature bugs some spies use in their ears, it would have been the next logical step.

                                            Geoff


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