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ITC 1999 Protectors

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  • gf willmetts
    Hello John I didnÆt extend my search for that book beyond the UK and havenÆt ever used bookfinder. IÆm also still vastly behind in my book reading. Having
    Message 1 of 14 , Aug 18 3:26 AM
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      Hello John



      I didn�t
      extend my search for that book beyond the UK and haven�t ever used bookfinder.
      I�m also still vastly behind in my book reading.



      Having an
      American in all the shows Grade was selling was seen as a means to sell to the
      US. Forgetting Gene Barry, Robert Vaughn and Tony Curtis, were the other
      Americans used that well known over there??



      Re:
      Protectors. That sounds awfully like how I abridged it. Anderson has always
      been quoted as wanted to do live-shows so he wouldn�t have turned it down.



      Re: UK and
      US number of episodes per season. There is still a certain amount of
      pre-selling before any series is made so it isn�t made and then looking around
      for a buyer. There has been some absolute rubbish in recent years but it does
      allow some odd gems out.

      Something
      that I recalled later about �The Saint� and �Danger Man� was that both were
      made mostly studio bound which kept their costs low overall which is why they
      could afford to keep it going.



      As to having
      no re-runs. You also had fewer TV stations back then and a wealth of TV shows
      so not needing to re-run.

      Do you see
      the cable networks relying on British episode series length as being equivalent
      of keeping to a more limited attention span of today�s viewer??



      With Star
      Trek Season 3 as indeed with any show, the buck stops with the producer or
      show-runner. Equally, one could argue that Roddenberry was too demanding, which
      is essentially why Gene Coon left because he felt burnt out.



      Re: Space
      1999 and �The Last Sunset�. My comments were based on a criticism of the show
      and it took a re-viewing of the show to realise that I didn�t care enough to
      pay that much attention and that it was more space fantasy than SF. I did this
      that a moon travelling that fast would zoom past planets too fast to have
      adventures otherwise as well. If you shifted the Moon to an area of space where
      there was more habitual planets nearby then it would be a good move.

      I was
      reviewing a book this month which actually maps the closest stars to the Earth
      and even the relative distance between them is something at a minimum of 10
      light years apart.



      Koenig
      firing his gun was done to make him look more like an action hero.



      I take it
      you do realise that when the Moon left Earth orbit that our planet lost the
      means to have tides.



      Hello Dino



      Re: �The
      Last Sunset�. You wouldn�t want any building in a vacuum having the ability to
      open windows. Being dangerous to life springs to mind, especially if someone
      forgot and wanted to clean but sides. That isn�t quite the same thing as
      emergency equipment and those escape balls on the Shuttle were for when they
      landed at sea not to be used in space.



      As to would
      the windows explode or not. Look to the UFO episode �Survival�. A pressure leak
      will cause an explosion and suck all the air out.



      As to suits
      interference on Space 1999. Again, it�s something Friedberger should have kept ahead of as he
      would know the kind of people he was being paid by which is why they were
      coming over here.



      Re: Knight
      Rider 4th season. I think they wanted to shake the formula up and
      made a wrong move. About the only thing it did indicate was that RC3 was the
      occasional driver of the Semi.



      Re:
      Enterprise. I think had they gone the direction of the fourth season from the
      start instead of that time travel malarkey that it might have lasted a lot
      longer.



      Back to The
      Protectors. It needed far more than 22 minutes a show to tell a decent story
      although some did work better than others.



      Geoff




      *************** Geoff Willmetts editor, SFCrowsnest.org.uk and other suffixes ****************

      SFCrowsnest.org.uk is the biggest SF website in Europe and second biggest in the world
      and that's only because the first is a commerical site and they look to what we do!

      *************************************************************************************




      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • martin allen
      Hi Geoff;            Of course ST3 has some of the worst episodes ever--Spock s Brain is a piece of tripe and would always be, no matter what season
      Message 2 of 14 , Aug 18 9:49 AM
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        Hi Geoff;
           
               Of course ST3 has some of the worst episodes ever--Spock's Brain is a piece of tripe and would always be, no matter what season it might have been in. But some of the ones I've begun to re-appreciate include The Empath, Elaan Of Troyius, Lights of Zetar and The Cloud Minders. Still no salvaging The Way To Eden, though.
         
                As I gather, "Black Sun" should be episode four, although I think it works better as #5 or even later--at least it serves as a way to get the Moon into more 'crowded' space. The series' physics just don't work, in the end.  Space fantasy indeed. The funny thing is, there is that second season episode that addresses what happened to the Earth after the Moon left orbit--In Journey To Where, it's established that the planet has indeed become an arid wasteland and what survivors there are live in domed cities. Not the kind of place I'd want to return to...
         
             If what I've heard is true, 1999 grew out of what would have been the second season of UFO, where the aliens just decided to blow up the Earth, leaving Straker and Co. as the few survivors, stuck on that Moonbase, but apparently the New York office vetoed that idea, that's of course if it had even gotten to a second season over Grade's objections.
         
             I think part of the problem with the American leads in a lot of ITC shows is that no, they weren't usually that well known over here, either. Steve Forrest as The Baron? I barely made it through the pilot episode on that one...even when Grade was able to sign A-list talent, the shows seldom worked--The Persuaders! has moments, mostly in the episodes written and/or directed by Val Guest, but a lot of them appear to be just marking time for Roger Moore and his long spell in the UK seems to have been all but career suicide for Tony Curtis. Landau ended up going through a long dry period, too. It didn't help that he isisted on working with Barbara all the time either--Landau and Bain were no Taylor and Burton...
         
            Shirley MacClaine has come out blasting Grade for snookering her into the show she did. The Protectors is one that actually works, for me, anyway--I like that Robert Vaughn seems to have revisited the Harry Rule character a few years back--I'll have to look that one up--it was quite popular on AMC, but I could never remember to catch up with it--my TV habits have really devolved the last decade or two...
         
        Martin  
             


        ________________________________
        From: gf willmetts <gfwillmetts-2@...>
        To: Search Chat <probe_control@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Sunday, August 18, 2013 6:26 AM
        Subject: [probe_control] ITC 1999 Protectors




        Hello John



            I didn’t
        extend my search for that book beyond the UK and haven’t ever used bookfinder.
        I’m also still vastly behind in my book reading.



            Having an
        American in all the shows Grade was selling was seen as a means to sell to the
        US. Forgetting Gene Barry, Robert Vaughn and Tony Curtis, were the other
        Americans used that well known over there??



            Re:
        Protectors. That sounds awfully like how I abridged it. Anderson has always
        been quoted as wanted to do live-shows so he wouldn’t have turned it down.



            Re: UK and
        US number of episodes per season. There is still a certain amount of
        pre-selling before any series is made so it isn’t made and then looking around
        for a buyer. There has been some absolute rubbish in recent years but it does
        allow some odd gems out.

            Something
        that I recalled later about ‘The Saint’ and ‘Danger Man’ was that both were
        made mostly studio bound which kept their costs low overall which is why they
        could afford to keep it going.



            As to having
        no re-runs. You also had fewer TV stations back then and a wealth of TV shows
        so not needing to re-run.

            Do you see
        the cable networks relying on British episode series length as being equivalent
        of keeping to a more limited attention span of today’s viewer??



            With Star
        Trek Season 3 as indeed with any show, the buck stops with the producer or
        show-runner. Equally, one could argue that Roddenberry was too demanding, which
        is essentially why Gene Coon left because he felt burnt out.



            Re: Space
        1999 and ‘The Last Sunset’. My comments were based on a criticism of the show
        and it took a re-viewing of the show to realise that I didn’t care enough to
        pay that much attention and that it was more space fantasy than SF. I did this
        that a moon travelling that fast would zoom past planets too fast to have
        adventures otherwise as well. If you shifted the Moon to an area of space where
        there was more habitual planets nearby then it would be a good move.

            I was
        reviewing a book this month which actually maps the closest stars to the Earth
        and even the relative distance between them is something at a minimum of 10
        light years apart.



            Koenig
        firing his gun was done to make him look more like an action hero.



            I take it
        you do realise that when the Moon left Earth orbit that our planet lost the
        means to have tides.



        Hello Dino



            Re: ‘The
        Last Sunset’. You wouldn’t want any building in a vacuum having the ability to
        open windows. Being dangerous to life springs to mind, especially if someone
        forgot and wanted to clean but sides. That isn’t quite the same thing as
        emergency equipment and those escape balls on the Shuttle were for when they
        landed at sea not to be used in space.



            As to would
        the windows explode or not. Look to the UFO episode ‘Survival’. A pressure leak
        will cause an explosion and suck all the air out.



            As to suits
        interference on Space 1999. Again, it’s something Friedberger should have kept ahead of as he
        would know the kind of people he was being paid by which is why they were
        coming over here.



            Re: Knight
        Rider 4th season. I think they wanted to shake the formula up and
        made a wrong move. About the only thing it did indicate was that RC3 was the
        occasional driver of the Semi.



            Re:
        Enterprise. I think had they gone the direction of the fourth season from the
        start instead of that time travel malarkey that it might have lasted a lot
        longer.



            Back to The
        Protectors. It needed far more than 22 minutes a show to tell a decent story
        although some did work better than others.



        Geoff




        ***************  Geoff Willmetts    editor, SFCrowsnest.org.uk  and other suffixes ****************

                  SFCrowsnest.org.uk is the biggest SF website in Europe and second biggest in the world 
                        and that's only because the first is a commerical site and they look to what we do!

        *************************************************************************************


                               

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



        ------------------------------------

        Yahoo! Groups Links



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • gf willmetts
        Hello Martin Re: Star Trek Season 3. I think that would be true of any US series. For the Trek reality, itÆs a shame we didnÆt really much of how their
        Message 3 of 14 , Aug 18 11:39 AM
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          Hello
          Martin





          Re: Star Trek Season 3. I think that would
          be true of any US series. For the Trek reality, it�s a shame we didn�t really
          much of how their society evolved over the years. The hippies were the only
          thing to show deviance from conventional culture. Outside of space travel, I
          have a feeling Earth would be a pretty bland world.





          Re: Space: 1999 reality. I wonder what
          happened when the aliens from �Earthbound� arrived on Earth??


          Re: It was originally going to be the
          second season of UFO. I think that was a lucky escape overall. It wouldn�t have
          made sense for the aliens to destroy the Earth. They needed spare body parts
          after all. I do suspect that multiple attack on Moonbase and Earth was one of
          their last attempts to break through the defences though.





          Speaking of Landau and Bain. Considering
          they stuck like glue together, I was rather surprised when they divorced.





          Robert Vaughn is on record for not enjoying
          his time on �The Protectors�.





          Geoff





          *************** Geoff Willmetts editor, SFCrowsnest.org.uk and other suffixes ****************

          SFCrowsnest.org.uk is the biggest SF website in Europe and second biggest in the world
          and that's only because the first is a commerical site and they look to what we do!

          *************************************************************************************




          To: probe_control@yahoogroups.com
          From: zippytkat@...
          Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2013 09:49:37 -0700
          Subject: Re: [probe_control] ITC 1999 Protectors


























          Hi Geoff;



          Of course ST3 has some of the worst episodes ever--Spock's Brain is a piece of tripe and would always be, no matter what season it might have been in. But some of the ones I've begun to re-appreciate include The Empath, Elaan Of Troyius, Lights of Zetar and The Cloud Minders. Still no salvaging The Way To Eden, though.



          As I gather, "Black Sun" should be episode four, although I think it works better as #5 or even later--at least it serves as a way to get the Moon into more 'crowded' space. The series' physics just don't work, in the end. Space fantasy indeed. The funny thing is, there is that second season episode that addresses what happened to the Earth after the Moon left orbit--In Journey To Where, it's established that the planet has indeed become an arid wasteland and what survivors there are live in domed cities. Not the kind of place I'd want to return to...



          If what I've heard is true, 1999 grew out of what would have been the second season of UFO, where the aliens just decided to blow up the Earth, leaving Straker and Co. as the few survivors, stuck on that Moonbase, but apparently the New York office vetoed that idea, that's of course if it had even gotten to a second season over Grade's objections.



          I think part of the problem with the American leads in a lot of ITC shows is that no, they weren't usually that well known over here, either. Steve Forrest as The Baron? I barely made it through the pilot episode on that one...even when Grade was able to sign A-list talent, the shows seldom worked--The Persuaders! has moments, mostly in the episodes written and/or directed by Val Guest, but a lot of them appear to be just marking time for Roger Moore and his long spell in the UK seems to have been all but career suicide for Tony Curtis. Landau ended up going through a long dry period, too. It didn't help that he isisted on working with Barbara all the time either--Landau and Bain were no Taylor and Burton...



          Shirley MacClaine has come out blasting Grade for snookering her into the show she did. The Protectors is one that actually works, for me, anyway--I like that Robert Vaughn seems to have revisited the Harry Rule character a few years back--I'll have to look that one up--it was quite popular on AMC, but I could never remember to catch up with it--my TV habits have really devolved the last decade or two...



          Martin





          ________________________________

          From: gf willmetts <gfwillmetts-2@...>

          To: Search Chat <probe_control@yahoogroups.com>

          Sent: Sunday, August 18, 2013 6:26 AM

          Subject: [probe_control] ITC 1999 Protectors



          Hello John



          I didn�t

          extend my search for that book beyond the UK and haven�t ever used bookfinder.

          I�m also still vastly behind in my book reading.



          Having an

          American in all the shows Grade was selling was seen as a means to sell to the

          US. Forgetting Gene Barry, Robert Vaughn and Tony Curtis, were the other

          Americans used that well known over there??



          Re:

          Protectors. That sounds awfully like how I abridged it. Anderson has always

          been quoted as wanted to do live-shows so he wouldn�t have turned it down.



          Re: UK and

          US number of episodes per season. There is still a certain amount of

          pre-selling before any series is made so it isn�t made and then looking around

          for a buyer. There has been some absolute rubbish in recent years but it does

          allow some odd gems out.



          Something

          that I recalled later about �The Saint� and �Danger Man� was that both were

          made mostly studio bound which kept their costs low overall which is why they

          could afford to keep it going.



          As to having

          no re-runs. You also had fewer TV stations back then and a wealth of TV shows

          so not needing to re-run.



          Do you see

          the cable networks relying on British episode series length as being equivalent

          of keeping to a more limited attention span of today�s viewer??



          With Star

          Trek Season 3 as indeed with any show, the buck stops with the producer or

          show-runner. Equally, one could argue that Roddenberry was too demanding, which

          is essentially why Gene Coon left because he felt burnt out.



          Re: Space

          1999 and �The Last Sunset�. My comments were based on a criticism of the show

          and it took a re-viewing of the show to realise that I didn�t care enough to

          pay that much attention and that it was more space fantasy than SF. I did this

          that a moon travelling that fast would zoom past planets too fast to have

          adventures otherwise as well. If you shifted the Moon to an area of space where

          there was more habitual planets nearby then it would be a good move.



          I was

          reviewing a book this month which actually maps the closest stars to the Earth

          and even the relative distance between them is something at a minimum of 10

          light years apart.



          Koenig

          firing his gun was done to make him look more like an action hero.



          I take it

          you do realise that when the Moon left Earth orbit that our planet lost the

          means to have tides.



          Hello Dino



          Re: �The

          Last Sunset�. You wouldn�t want any building in a vacuum having the ability to

          open windows. Being dangerous to life springs to mind, especially if someone

          forgot and wanted to clean but sides. That isn�t quite the same thing as

          emergency equipment and those escape balls on the Shuttle were for when they

          landed at sea not to be used in space.



          As to would

          the windows explode or not. Look to the UFO episode �Survival�. A pressure leak

          will cause an explosion and suck all the air out.



          As to suits

          interference on Space 1999. Again, it�s something Friedberger should have kept ahead of as he

          would know the kind of people he was being paid by which is why they were

          coming over here.



          Re: Knight

          Rider 4th season. I think they wanted to shake the formula up and

          made a wrong move. About the only thing it did indicate was that RC3 was the

          occasional driver of the Semi.



          Re:

          Enterprise. I think had they gone the direction of the fourth season from the

          start instead of that time travel malarkey that it might have lasted a lot

          longer.



          Back to The

          Protectors. It needed far more than 22 minutes a show to tell a decent story

          although some did work better than others.



          Geoff



          *************** Geoff Willmetts editor, SFCrowsnest.org.uk and other suffixes ****************



          SFCrowsnest.org.uk is the biggest SF website in Europe and second biggest in the world

          and that's only because the first is a commerical site and they look to what we do!



          *************************************************************************************







          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



          ------------------------------------



          Yahoo! Groups Links



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



















          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • John
          Off the top of my head, the Americans they brought over, or who were all ready in England, were not well known. I think as equipment got better, it got cheaper
          Message 4 of 14 , Aug 18 2:39 PM
          • 0 Attachment
            Off the top of my head, the Americans they brought over, or who were all
            ready in England, were not well known.

            I think as equipment got better, it got cheaper to film on location. The
            first two or three seasons of Perry Mason were all on the
            soundstage...including the "outdoors" scenes. After that, outdoors was
            really filmed outdoors. As the 60's went on, the ITC shows had a lot more
            location shooting. But I am taking a wild guess here.

            I think the only reason the cable networks are doing short episode runs is
            the potential audience numbers are less, so the advertising revenue is
            less, so the budget to make these shows is less.

            No one has ever said Space:1999 was scientifically accurate (and I don't
            mean the #*@!!! windows.) As a viewer, if you find the entertainment worth
            it, you are able to ignore some things. It is the difference between the
            material that falls into the generic umbrella term "science fiction" and
            "hard science fiction."

            Google says Alpha Centauri is 4.367 light years from Earth.

            I have no love for the "suits." And they were interfering during the first
            year of S:99 as well. I think part of their agreeing to fund the second
            year was they would exert more control. They really were not happy with
            the first year. And if you look at the timeline of the second year
            renewal, they were already planning on pulling the plug just a month or two
            into the run of the first year. And as far as I know, that was not because
            of ratings.

            To me the biggest problem with Enterprise, was that they had written so
            much "gentle" 24th century Trek, they didn't know how to write 22nd Trek,
            where they are supposed to be making the mistakes and exhibiting the
            behavior that let to the prime directive and other fixes that Kirk lived
            and dealt with in the 23rd century, and which were further refined by the
            time of the characters of the 24th century. Archer seemed more as the
            successor of Janeway, and not the precursor of Kirk.


            On Sun, Aug 18, 2013 at 6:26 AM, gf willmetts
            <gfwillmetts-2@...>wrote:

            >
            >
            > Hello John
            >
            >
            >
            > I didn�t
            > extend my search for that book beyond the UK and haven�t ever used
            > bookfinder.
            > I�m also still vastly behind in my book reading.
            >
            >
            >
            > Having an
            > American in all the shows Grade was selling was seen as a means to sell to
            > the
            > US. Forgetting Gene Barry, Robert Vaughn and Tony Curtis, were the other
            > Americans used that well known over there??
            >
            >
            >
            > Re:
            > Protectors. That sounds awfully like how I abridged it. Anderson has always
            > been quoted as wanted to do live-shows so he wouldn�t have turned it down.
            >
            >
            >
            > Re: UK and
            > US number of episodes per season. There is still a certain amount of
            > pre-selling before any series is made so it isn�t made and then looking
            > around
            > for a buyer. There has been some absolute rubbish in recent years but it
            > does
            > allow some odd gems out.
            >
            > Something
            > that I recalled later about �The Saint� and �Danger Man� was that both were
            > made mostly studio bound which kept their costs low overall which is why
            > they
            > could afford to keep it going.
            >
            >
            >
            > As to having
            > no re-runs. You also had fewer TV stations back then and a wealth of TV
            > shows
            > so not needing to re-run.
            >
            > Do you see
            > the cable networks relying on British episode series length as being
            > equivalent
            > of keeping to a more limited attention span of today�s viewer??
            >
            >
            >
            > With Star
            > Trek Season 3 as indeed with any show, the buck stops with the producer or
            > show-runner. Equally, one could argue that Roddenberry was too demanding,
            > which
            > is essentially why Gene Coon left because he felt burnt out.
            >
            >
            >
            > Re: Space
            > 1999 and �The Last Sunset�. My comments were based on a criticism of the
            > show
            > and it took a re-viewing of the show to realise that I didn�t care enough
            > to
            > pay that much attention and that it was more space fantasy than SF. I did
            > this
            > that a moon travelling that fast would zoom past planets too fast to have
            > adventures otherwise as well. If you shifted the Moon to an area of space
            > where
            > there was more habitual planets nearby then it would be a good move.
            >
            > I was
            > reviewing a book this month which actually maps the closest stars to the
            > Earth
            > and even the relative distance between them is something at a minimum of 10
            > light years apart.
            >
            >
            >
            > Koenig
            > firing his gun was done to make him look more like an action hero.
            >
            >
            >
            > I take it
            > you do realise that when the Moon left Earth orbit that our planet lost the
            > means to have tides.
            >
            >
            >
            > Hello Dino
            >
            >
            >
            > Re: �The
            > Last Sunset�. You wouldn�t want any building in a vacuum having the
            > ability to
            > open windows. Being dangerous to life springs to mind, especially if
            > someone
            > forgot and wanted to clean but sides. That isn�t quite the same thing as
            > emergency equipment and those escape balls on the Shuttle were for when
            > they
            > landed at sea not to be used in space.
            >
            >
            >
            > As to would
            > the windows explode or not. Look to the UFO episode �Survival�. A pressure
            > leak
            > will cause an explosion and suck all the air out.
            >
            >
            >
            > As to suits
            > interference on Space 1999. Again, it�s something Friedberger should have
            > kept ahead of as he
            > would know the kind of people he was being paid by which is why they were
            > coming over here.
            >
            >
            >
            > Re: Knight
            > Rider 4th season. I think they wanted to shake the formula up and
            > made a wrong move. About the only thing it did indicate was that RC3 was
            > the
            > occasional driver of the Semi.
            >
            >
            >
            > Re:
            > Enterprise. I think had they gone the direction of the fourth season from
            > the
            > start instead of that time travel malarkey that it might have lasted a lot
            > longer.
            >
            >
            >
            > Back to The
            > Protectors. It needed far more than 22 minutes a show to tell a decent
            > story
            > although some did work better than others.
            >
            >
            >
            > Geoff
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • John
            For whatever reason, the Andersons decided to change the second year of UFO by moving it from 1980 to 1999, and expanding the size and scope of Moonbase. They
            Message 5 of 14 , Aug 18 3:08 PM
            • 0 Attachment
              For whatever reason, the Andersons decided to change the second year of UFO
              by moving it from 1980 to 1999, and expanding the size and scope of
              Moonbase. They did quite a bit of pre-production when ITC New York said
              the ratings were dropping on UFO, and killed plans for a second year.
              Gerry went to Grade and suggested they take all of that work and turn it
              into a new show about a moonbase. New York would only give the approval if
              Gerry guaranteed that there was no way for any Earth based episodes (NY
              Head Abe Mandell hated the UFO episode that dealt with Straker's son.)
              After rejecting the idea of blowing up the Earth, Gerry suggested blowing
              the moon out of orbit.

              So UFO 1999 was going to concentrate on the moonbase fighting the aliens
              invading Earth, but Earth was still in one piece.


              On Sun, Aug 18, 2013 at 12:49 PM, martin allen <zippytkat@...> wrote:

              > **
              >
              >
              > Hi Geoff;
              >
              >
              > If what I've heard is true, 1999 grew out of what would have been the
              > second season of UFO, where the aliens just decided to blow up the Earth,
              > leaving Straker and Co. as the few survivors, stuck on that Moonbase, but
              > apparently the New York office vetoed that idea, that's of course if it had
              > even gotten to a second season over Grade's objections.
              >


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • dghprobe3
              Found this article on Fred Freiberger while looking for something else. While the author calls this a fictional interview, it is actually a compilation of
              Message 6 of 14 , Aug 19 1:23 PM
              • 0 Attachment
                Found this article on Fred Freiberger while looking for something else. While the author calls this a fictional interview, it is actually a compilation of several different sources. A lot of ground is covered in some detail, including Star Trek, Wild Wild West, Space 1999, and others.

                http://travisclemmons.blogspot.com/2012/09/authors-note-while-following-interview.html

                So many things came together at once to work against what was going on during the third season of Star Trek. Not emphasized in the article is the fact that so many of the better writers who worked Trek during seasons one and two were no longer contributing to the series. Also not mentioned was the departure of several of the better directors who had worked the series earlier.

                So with the third season (which was a minor miracle that it was produced), we ended up with a handful of episodes that were fairly good to okay, much of the rest being fair to mediocre, then there were a few dogs such as "Spock's Brain" and "The Way to Eden." Considering what they were up against, that's not *too* disastrous a turnout. While we fans couldn't really be faulted for having high expectations based on the quality of the first two seasons, we also didn't fully know what was happening behind the scenes either. I appreciate the third season as an entity more nowadays for those reasons. :)

                ---------------------------------------

                --- In probe_control, martin allen wrote:
                >        Of course ST3 has some of the worst episodes ever--Spock's Brain is a piece of tripe and would always be, no matter what season it might have been in. But some of the ones I've begun to re-appreciate include The Empath, Elaan Of Troyius, Lights of Zetar and The Cloud Minders. Still no salvaging The Way To Eden, though...
              • LambuLambu@aol.com
                Geoff, According to The Space Shuttle Operator s Guide (I think that s the title of the book), which I have a copy of and is what they gave the shuttle crews
                Message 7 of 14 , Aug 20 12:29 AM
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                  Geoff,


                  According to "The Space Shuttle Operator's Guide" (I think that's the title of the book), which I have a copy of and is what they gave the shuttle crews to study as part of their training, it states that the rescue ball was indeed intended for orbital rescue - transferring crewmembers unable to get into space suits from a damaged/disabled shuttle to the rescue shuttle. It may have also worked for an ocean landing, but its primary use is stated as for rescue in space.


                  Exploding windows: I wasn't disagreeing with you there. I've seen that 'UFO' episode, as well as the exploding windows in '1999''s "Breakaway" as well as that "dream sequence" episode I can't remember the title of - the one where Alpha supposedly gets attacked and almost destroyed, and Dr. Mathias gets blown out of Sick Bay when the window blows out while he's trying to patch it. (Approx. 21 psi inside, 0 psi space vacuum outside, cracked window, equals explosive decompression.) The word you had used in your comment was "implode", rather than "explode". That's the only thing I wanted to bring to your attention. (Probably just a typo, though.)


                  Suits interfering with Series 2 of 'Space: 1999': I really have no rebuttal for that one. I was only repeating what Gerry Anderson had said about it in that SciFi Channel interview sometime back in the mid 1990s.


                  'Knight Rider', Season 4: They did have some good stories, but at that point they'd "automated" the semi to basically drive itself most of the time. (I forget the episode, but this was mentioned in dialogue). Yes, they did shake up the formula, and KITT's Super Pursuit Mode and the Emergency Braking System were sort of cool to look at, but - like RC3 and his motorcycle troubles - I think they played too heavily on it. Several stories never used the "SPM/EBS" for more than a few seconds of screen time so it was obvious they put it in just for the sake of using them. Other stories used them to great affect. Still, at least two of the stories that I can think of that made no use of the SPM or the EBS were some of the best ones of Season 4.


                  'ST: Enterprise': I totally agree with you there. In Season 1 and 2 those stories were intermittent so were tolerable. What really killed the show (aside from fans tuning out at the mention of "phase pistols" and "photonic" torpedoes) was that dead end Season 3 season-long story arc. Even the hardcore fans lost interest in it after the 4th or 5th episode, tuning back in for the last 3 or 4 episodes just to see how things would end, only to be disappointed by a cliffhanger that took Season 4 several episodes to resolve (and it involved that now-irritating time travel - with aliens working with Nazis in WWII!). Also the total discard of stand-alone episodes in favor of 2- and 3-part story arcs on Friday nights, when people wanted to go out and let off some steam after working al week, was a horrid idea. And unfortunately Season 4 did have some of the best stories. Another thing that turned the "Stitch Nazis" and "Rivet Counters" off from Day-1 was the opening theme; I don't know how many times I heard fans say that as soon as the theme started they turned it off and never turned it on again.
                  Others did the same once they saw the uniforms - using the TNG pattern for the department color piping on the shoulders and the rectangular rank pips rather than sleeve stripes. (Honestly, I can't blame them for that.) Why would Starfleet go from that uniform to what we saw CAPT Pike and the crew wear in the 1st Pilot, and with slight alterations to sleeve stripes Kirk and company wear in the 2nd Pilot, and then in the Original Series, and then take those 'Enterprise' uniforms and turn them into the TNG et al uniforms? Well, most fans said they wouldn't, thought it was stupid, and never watched the show. And then there was the ship herself, dubbed the "AKIRAPRISE" because she was a recycled AKIRA Class from DS9 and looked too futuristic inside and out for the time period. (Remember, these fans were comparing everything with what was already established in TOS, and 'Enterprise' made it look like Starfleet went from 'Enterprise' technology to things more primitive in TOS.)
                  And like with RC3 and his motorcycle, they played up the crew's fear of the transporter waaay too long. They used it without incident quite a few times in Season 1, including in the Pilot, and they were still afraid to use it in Season 2, even though again they HAD to use it in quite a few episodes. And they were still afraid to use it even in Season 4. That plot device got really old, really fast. So did the plot device of Humans not trusting the Vulcans and vice versa, and the Vulcans refusing to share technology (like deflector shields and tractor beams) with the Humans. Again this went against everything established in TOS et al and was milked out for far too long.
                  If they'd done something with the Romulan War (as mentioned in TOS) and handled it the way they did DS9's war with The Dominion - with stand-alone episodes and the occasional battle thrown in to keep viewers reminded that a war was going on - and not played up the other things I mentioned - like you, I think 'Enterprise' would have stood a chance of getting to its Season 7.


                  The Protectors: Agreed. 'UFO', 'Space: 1999' - both one-hour shows with some episodes using (no doubt for ITC's wallet) expensive SFX. 'The Protectors' didn't require any SFX, except maybe for a few bullet ricochet sparks and the occasional car explosion. So why didn't that show get a 'one-hour' (48 minutes) per episode format? I'm sure the budget was there for it. Still, something must have worked; it got a two-series run, with 26 episodes per series for a total of 52 episodes. (And I kind of liked it.)


                  Dino.


                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: gf willmetts <gfwillmetts-2@...>
                  To: Search Chat <probe_control@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Sun, Aug 18, 2013 6:28 am
                  Subject: [probe_control] ITC 1999 Protectors


                  Hello Dino

                  Re: �The
                  Last Sunset�. You wouldn�t want any building in a vacuum having the ability to
                  open windows. Being dangerous to life springs to mind, especially if someone
                  forgot and wanted to clean but sides. That isn�t quite the same thing as
                  emergency equipment and those escape balls on the Shuttle were for when they
                  landed at sea not to be used in space.

                  As to would
                  the windows explode or not. Look to the UFO episode �Survival�. A pressure leak
                  will cause an explosion and suck all the air out.

                  As to suits
                  interference on Space 1999. Again, it�s something Friedberger should have kept
                  ahead of as he
                  would know the kind of people he was being paid by which is why they were
                  coming over here.

                  Re: Knight
                  Rider 4th season. I think they wanted to shake the formula up and
                  made a wrong move. About the only thing it did indicate was that RC3 was the
                  occasional driver of the Semi.

                  Re:
                  Enterprise. I think had they gone the direction of the fourth season from the
                  start instead of that time travel malarkey that it might have lasted a lot
                  longer.

                  Back to The
                  Protectors. It needed far more than 22 minutes a show to tell a decent story
                  although some did work better than others.

                  Geoff

                  *************** Geoff Willmetts editor, SFCrowsnest.org.uk and other
                  suffixes ****************

                  SFCrowsnest.org.uk is the biggest SF website in Europe and second
                  biggest in the world
                  and that's only because the first is a commerical site and they
                  look to what we do!

                  *************************************************************************************





                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • LambuLambu@aol.com
                  From what I read, it was because the UFO episodes that took place in space or heavily involved Moonbase were the most popular, so Series 2 was supposed to be
                  Message 8 of 14 , Aug 20 1:30 AM
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                    From what I read, it was because the 'UFO' episodes that took place in space or heavily involved Moonbase were the most popular, so Series 2 was supposed to be centered on the expanded Moonbase with very little action taking place on Earth. And you're right; Earth was still in one piece.


                    Dino.


                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: John <actingman6@...>
                    To: Probe Control <probe_control@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Sun, Aug 18, 2013 6:09 pm
                    Subject: Re: [probe_control] ITC 1999 Protectors






                    For whatever reason, the Andersons decided to change the second year of UFO
                    by moving it from 1980 to 1999, and expanding the size and scope of
                    Moonbase. They did quite a bit of pre-production when ITC New York said
                    the ratings were dropping on UFO, and killed plans for a second year.
                    Gerry went to Grade and suggested they take all of that work and turn it
                    into a new show about a moonbase. New York would only give the approval if
                    Gerry guaranteed that there was no way for any Earth based episodes (NY
                    Head Abe Mandell hated the UFO episode that dealt with Straker's son.)
                    After rejecting the idea of blowing up the Earth, Gerry suggested blowing
                    the moon out of orbit.

                    So UFO 1999 was going to concentrate on the moonbase fighting the aliens
                    invading Earth, but Earth was still in one piece.







                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • John
                    In 1970, the FCC took an hour away from the networks. The affiliates simply bought off-network reruns for the open time. The FCC then said it had to be new
                    Message 9 of 14 , Aug 20 7:10 AM
                    • 0 Attachment
                      In 1970, the FCC took an hour away from the networks. The affiliates
                      simply bought off-network reruns for the open time. The FCC then said it
                      had to be new programming. So a market opened up for independently
                      produced half hour programs. Remember shows like Primus, Dr. Simon Locke,
                      etc? I don't have any documentation to confirm this, but I have always
                      thought that Protectors was created to take advantage of that market.

                      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_Time_Access_Rule


                      On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 3:29 AM, LambuLambu@... <LambuLambu@...>wrote:

                      > **
                      >
                      >
                      > The Protectors: Agreed. 'UFO', 'Space: 1999' - both one-hour shows with
                      > some episodes using (no doubt for ITC's wallet) expensive SFX. 'The
                      > Protectors' didn't require any SFX, except maybe for a few bullet ricochet
                      > sparks and the occasional car explosion. So why didn't that show get a
                      > 'one-hour' (48 minutes) per episode format? I'm sure the budget was there
                      > for it. Still, something must have worked; it got a two-series run, with 26
                      > episodes per series for a total of 52 episodes. (And I kind of liked it.)
                      >
                      > Dino
                      >


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • gf willmetts
                      Hello John If that was done today, I think theyÆd chuck a quiz show or sit-com than an adventure show into such a slot. Geoff *************** Geoff Willmetts
                      Message 10 of 14 , Aug 20 11:15 AM
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Hello
                        John





                        If that was done today, I think they�d
                        chuck a quiz show or sit-com than an adventure show into such a slot.





                        Geoff





                        *************** Geoff Willmetts editor, SFCrowsnest.org.uk and other suffixes ****************

                        SFCrowsnest.org.uk is the biggest SF website in Europe and second biggest in the world
                        and that's only because the first is a commerical site and they look to what we do!

                        *************************************************************************************




                        To: probe_control@yahoogroups.com
                        From: actingman6@...
                        Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 10:10:39 -0400
                        Subject: Re: [probe_control] ITC 1999 Protectors


























                        In 1970, the FCC took an hour away from the networks. The affiliates

                        simply bought off-network reruns for the open time. The FCC then said it

                        had to be new programming. So a market opened up for independently

                        produced half hour programs. Remember shows like Primus, Dr. Simon Locke,

                        etc? I don't have any documentation to confirm this, but I have always

                        thought that Protectors was created to take advantage of that market.



                        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_Time_Access_Rule



                        On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 3:29 AM, LambuLambu@... <LambuLambu@...>wrote:



                        > **

                        >

                        >

                        > The Protectors: Agreed. 'UFO', 'Space: 1999' - both one-hour shows with

                        > some episodes using (no doubt for ITC's wallet) expensive SFX. 'The

                        > Protectors' didn't require any SFX, except maybe for a few bullet ricochet

                        > sparks and the occasional car explosion. So why didn't that show get a

                        > 'one-hour' (48 minutes) per episode format? I'm sure the budget was there

                        > for it. Still, something must have worked; it got a two-series run, with 26

                        > episodes per series for a total of 52 episodes. (And I kind of liked it.)

                        >

                        > Dino

                        >



                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



















                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • John
                        They did back then. On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 2:15 PM, gf willmetts ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        Message 11 of 14 , Aug 20 12:18 PM
                        • 0 Attachment
                          They did back then.


                          On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 2:15 PM, gf willmetts
                          <gfwillmetts-2@...>wrote:

                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Hello
                          > John
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > If that was done today, I think they�d
                          > chuck a quiz show or sit-com than an adventure show into such a slot.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Geoff
                          >


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • gf willmetts
                          Hello John Were any of the programmes remembered?? Geoff *************** Geoff Willmetts editor, SFCrowsnest.org.uk and other suffixes ****************
                          Message 12 of 14 , Aug 21 2:24 AM
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Hello John





                            Were any of
                            the programmes remembered??





                            Geoff





                            *************** Geoff Willmetts editor, SFCrowsnest.org.uk and other suffixes ****************

                            SFCrowsnest.org.uk is the biggest SF website in Europe and second biggest in the world
                            and that's only because the first is a commerical site and they look to what we do!

                            *************************************************************************************




                            > To: probe_control@yahoogroups.com
                            > From: actingman6@...
                            > Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 15:18:33 -0400
                            > Subject: Re: [probe_control] ITC 1999 Protectors
                            >
                            > They did back then.
                            >
                            >
                            > On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 2:15 PM, gf willmetts
                            > <gfwillmetts-2@...>wrote:
                            >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Hello
                            > > John
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > If that was done today, I think they�d
                            > > chuck a quiz show or sit-com than an adventure show into such a slot.
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Geoff
                            > >
                            >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > ------------------------------------
                            >
                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                            >
                            >


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • John
                            Price Is Right, To Tell The Truth, Hollywood Squares, Match Game PM, Gong Show, Dusty s Trail, Jeopardy, Wheel of Fortune...just off the top of my head. With
                            Message 13 of 14 , Aug 21 7:00 AM
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Price Is Right, To Tell The Truth, Hollywood Squares, Match Game PM, Gong
                              Show, Dusty's Trail, Jeopardy, Wheel of Fortune...just off the top of my
                              head.

                              With the exception of the one I mentioned above, all of the sitcoms I can
                              think of are from the 80's and later. But I am sure someone will chime in
                              with some.


                              On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 5:24 AM, gf willmetts
                              <gfwillmetts-2@...>wrote:

                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Hello John
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Were any of
                              > the programmes remembered??
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Geoff
                              >
                              > > To: probe_control@yahoogroups.com
                              > > From: actingman6@...
                              > > Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 15:18:33 -0400
                              > > Subject: Re: [probe_control] ITC 1999 Protectors
                              > >
                              > > They did back then.
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 2:15 PM, gf willmetts
                              > > <gfwillmetts-2@...>wrote:
                              > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > Hello
                              > > > John
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > If that was done today, I think they�d
                              > > > chuck a quiz show or sit-com than an adventure show into such a slot.
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > Geoff
                              >


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • gf willmetts
                              Hello John From that list, we had UK versions of Price Is Right, Hollywood Squares (ours was called Celebrity Squares) and Wheel of Fortune Geoff
                              Message 14 of 14 , Aug 21 11:27 AM
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Hello
                                John





                                From that list, we had UK versions of Price Is
                                Right, Hollywood Squares (ours was called Celebrity Squares) and Wheel of
                                Fortune





                                Geoff





                                *************** Geoff Willmetts editor, SFCrowsnest.org.uk and other suffixes ****************

                                SFCrowsnest.org.uk is the biggest SF website in Europe and second biggest in the world
                                and that's only because the first is a commerical site and they look to what we do!

                                *************************************************************************************




                                > To: probe_control@yahoogroups.com
                                > From: actingman6@...
                                > Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 10:00:44 -0400
                                > Subject: Re: [probe_control] ITC 1999 Protectors
                                >
                                > Price Is Right, To Tell The Truth, Hollywood Squares, Match Game PM, Gong
                                > Show, Dusty's Trail, Jeopardy, Wheel of Fortune...just off the top of my
                                > head.
                                >
                                > With the exception of the one I mentioned above, all of the sitcoms I can
                                > think of are from the 80's and later. But I am sure someone will chime in
                                > with some.
                                >
                                >
                                > On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 5:24 AM, gf willmetts
                                > <gfwillmetts-2@...>wrote:
                                >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > Hello John
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > Were any of
                                > > the programmes remembered??
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > Geoff
                                > >
                                > > > To: probe_control@yahoogroups.com
                                > > > From: actingman6@...
                                > > > Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 15:18:33 -0400
                                > > > Subject: Re: [probe_control] ITC 1999 Protectors
                                > > >
                                > > > They did back then.
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 2:15 PM, gf willmetts
                                > > > <gfwillmetts-2@...>wrote:
                                > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Hello
                                > > > > John
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > > If that was done today, I think they�d
                                > > > > chuck a quiz show or sit-com than an adventure show into such a slot.
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Geoff
                                > >
                                >
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > ------------------------------------
                                >
                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                >
                                >
                                >


                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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