10365Re: [probe_control] All Search and no play...
- Dec 25, 2013Mike,
Glad to have another person joining in on this discussion. Just to clarify, though, Nelson was said to have been retired. In the pilot episode, it was Crane who received that letter from the Dept. of the Navy, near the end, saying that he "was no longer in the Navy". And Nelson says "How else could you keep your position as SEAVIEW's captain?" (not the exact quote, but it's close).
Great insight into how flag officer retirement works. That's one of those things we Enlisteds never hear about. When we retire, that's it for us; we get our pensions (at whatever percentage based on years of service, starting at 50% after 20 years, and adding an additional 2.5% per year after that until you hit what was the then-max of 75% at 30 years). And someone moved up to take our places. (I retired as an E-9/MCPO at 29 years due to my back injury so I get 72.5%.) I say the "then-max" because now, if you manage to get through the small loophole and make it to 40 years of service, you get 100% of your base pay as your pension.Now to explain the loophole for those scratching their heads. Just before I retired and they instated that 100% at 40 years; they also had a 30-year maximum for active duty which they instated back in the late 1990s, unless you got a position as a Gold Badge Command Master Chief (or selected for "Master Chief Petty Officer Of the Coast Guard (or Navy)" - this is an E-10 and there's only ONE) and that tour took you over the 30-year mark, or if you were selected to be (in Coastie case) the 4-star Commandant of the Coast Guard, and that took you over the 30-year mark. (Not sure what they call that 4-star position in the Navy.) The kicker is, even if you make it to, say, 35 years, you still only get 75% for a pension.The loophole comes in if you have, say 10 or more years as Enlisted, and then either become an officer via Officer Candidate School (OCS), or advance to Chief Warrant Officer and then make the jump from CWO to Lieutenant. Now your Enlisted time still counts towards retirement, but your "service clock" starts over and you can serve 30 years as an officer. So, after 12 years Enlisted you become an officer, then serve 30 years as an officer, you've completed a total of 42 (more than 40) years of service, then you've got your 100% pension. It's the only way to get by that 30-year cap. (Time as a CWO counts as part of Enlisted time, so you can't do 12 years Enlisted, then get appointment to CWO and continue to 40 years as a CWO; unless you make that jump to regular officer, even if you've only been a CWO for 4 years when you hit that 30-year mark, you have to retire.)
For the other part of my post... I was just guessing at the "enlisted" SEAVIEW crew. In the B&W episodes they wore what looked like Navy uniforms: dungarees, chambray shirts, "Dixie Cup" hats. All that went by the wayside in Season 2 when they went to color film and the standard "non-officer" uniform was a blue or red jumpsuit with no more hats (unless they wore a NIMR ball cap or the like). I can't remember if it was ever mentioned that they were Navy men assigned to SEAVIEW, only that they - like all submariners - were volunteers. (I'd love to see the "Writers' Bible" for that series.)
"If they lived long enough..." Yeah - that's what I was getting at. It seemed like SEAVIEW's blue jumpsuit (Patterson excepted) was their equivalent to 'Trek''s "Red Shirt"... if you wore one, you were most likely doomed!
From: Mike Walton (Settummanque) <settummanque@...>
To: probe_control <email@example.com>
Sent: Tue, Dec 24, 2013 4:06 pm
Subject: Re: [probe_control] All Search and no play...
Dino posted some information about Admiral Nelson and the "Seaview". Here's a little bit of information which could bring some value to that portion of the discussion.Dino wrote in part: "SEAVIEW and Retirement: I'm not sure how they used it in the series. Nelson was said to have been retired from the Navy. That would mean he was no longer a Navy man (yet for some reason he continued wearing his Navy uniform)."
It could have been that Nelson was retired from the Navy Reserve (which accounted for the letter from the Navy stating that he was "discharged" instead of "retired"). In our reserve components, individuals are "released" or "discharged" from active duty and returned to the Reserve side at the end of their duties. In the case of generals and admirals, they continue to receive Reserve pay (typically four days' pay per month; that would come to some two or three grand a month) until they get "final retirement" from the service and that 75 percent would come in...
"Nelson probably lived on his pension alone. The rest of the crew probably got their pay from Nelson's institute and its funding. And since it was initially a government research institute, anyone working there would be entitled to a retirement pension when the time came (if they lived to reach retirement!)."
Didn't everyone else served in the Navy, and just "attached" to Nelson's research institute? I smiled when you wrote "if they lived to reach retirement", because as we know, that show was notorious for "killing off" at least two crewmembers each week! If I got a letter directing me to work on the Seaview, and knowing what I know now about crewmember survival, I think I would put in my papers and leave the service...Hope that this helps with this discussion...Happy Holidays everyone!!Settummanque!--
Settummanque is writer, retired military officer, dad, friend,
traveler, public speaker, webmaster, Eagle Scout, and/or "sweetie"
(LTC) Mike Walton. South Lake Minnetonka area, Minnesota.
http://www.settummanque.comFrom: "LambuLambu@..." <LambuLambu@...>
Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2013 12:23 PM
Subject: Re: [probe_control] All Search and no play...
SEAVIEW and Retirement: I'm not sure how they used it in the series. Nelson was said to have been retired from the Navy. That would mean he was no longer a Navy man (yet for some reason he continued wearing his Navy uniform). Crane wasn't actually 'retired'; in the pilot episode the letter from the Naval Department said he was being "discharged". Retirement means he would receive a pension; being "discharged" would mean he was just booted out - no pension. Based on a 4-star admiral's pay - given that it takes close to 30 years for an officer to reach that rank - at 75% of his base pay, which is standard for a 30-year pension, it would give Nelson more than enough money for him to live very luxuriously. (In today's dollars Nelson's pension would come to about $11,230 a month - and that doesn't include any disability he may get, and everyone gets some percentage based on years of service and "wear and tear".) So Nelson and his crew probably operate on grants and some government funding, especially considering that the Navy could "borrow" SEAVIEW anytime they wanted. Nelson probably lived on his pension alone. The rest of the crew probably got their pay from Nelson's institute and its funding. And since it was initially a government research institute, anyone working there would be entitled to a retirement pension when the time came (if they lived to reach retirement!). As for Crane, since he was moving from one government position (Navy) to another, his Navy time would count towards any retirement, so he wouldn't have to start over. That's also common practice in our real-life government workforce.
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