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Re: Set of prime numbers

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  • maximilian_hasler
    ... I had similar ideas as Phil on this ... ... It seems that the first estimation of about 9k BC has been revised to ~ 25k (Wikipedia says 20k, elsewhere I
    Message 1 of 10 , Dec 1 7:07 PM
      --- In primenumbers@yahoogroups.com, "djbroadhurst" <d.broadhurst@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      >
      > --- In primenumbers@yahoogroups.com,
      > "maximilian_hasler" <maximilian.hasler@> wrote:
      >
      > > published by Eratosthenes some 2200 years ago,
      > > and was certainly known some 1000
      > > (maybe 25 000) years earlier.
      >
      > I'm intrigued by the "certainly";
      > I would have said "probably" for 1k BCE.
      > Do you have a source for this reasonable supposition?

      I had similar ideas as Phil on this ...

      > I'm rather skeptical about the "maybe";
      > how can we know anything about maths circa 25k BCE ?
      > As far as I know, the earliest proto-mathematical bone
      > artefacts that we have (found in Ishango) originate
      > after 10k BCE. How do you get back to 25k BCE?

      It seems that the first estimation of about 9k BC has been revised to ~ 25k (Wikipedia says 20k, elsewhere I found 25k)
      but this is still 10k less than the Lebombo bone, -- although both (esp. the latter) may be more of a calendar than a table of primes... (even if they have "29" in base 1 written on it...)

      But if someone writes (or carves) a preprint about the number of days of a lunar cycle, then it should take less than 10 000 yrs to him
      (or her) to publish a paper (or bone) about composite numbers
      (i.e.: products, as the O.P. observed) and their complement...
      (or at least "know" about it, which was all I "claimed"...)

      Maximilian
    • murat.cagliyan
      Thank you, Maximilian; but I told him a little differently. I mean, in fact, become getrimekti formula. Erastothenes, as this method performed. I brought it
      Message 2 of 10 , Dec 1 11:34 PM
        Thank you, Maximilian;
        but I told him a little differently. I mean, in fact, become getrimekti formula. Erastothenes, as this method performed. I brought it into the formula and I thought I could use proof of Goldbach's conjecture. also of prime test, an easier method, moreover contain certainty.
        While investigating this, I noticed something. Even number greater than 2 and a close relationship between prime numbers.
        I can not express what it is. but I can show you. that 'Goldbach' s conjecture can be used in the proof?
        With this method, I found the formula for the sum of a series of prime numbers in total, the two parameters you change the series instead of 2 greater than the total number of prime numbers, the sum gives couples.
        This parameter is reduced by generating equation can, until the total number N of primes can find, can I obtain a short equation. This equation will be deterministic, but the equation did not reduce.
        I wonder how can I do?
        In the meantime, while trying to reduce equation, I found many features related to prime numbers. One side is a parabola triangle, for example, in a geometric area of prime numbers has been collected, 6n +1, 6n-1 in the prime numbers reveals why he like.
      • djbroadhurst
        The operation of the law of small numbers in http://www.naturalsciences.be/expo/old_ishango/en/ishango/riddle.html reminds me of some messages on this list.
        Message 3 of 10 , Dec 2 9:19 AM
          The operation of the law of small numbers in
          http://www.naturalsciences.be/expo/old_ishango/en/ishango/riddle.html
          reminds me of some messages on this list.

          David
        • Paul Leyland
          ... Sorry for the late response to this thread but I ve been rather tied up with Real Life(tm) recently. There is a persuasive suggestion that the divisibility
          Message 4 of 10 , Dec 23 9:22 AM
            On Tue, 2009-12-01 at 23:54 +0000, Phil Carmody wrote:

            > > > published by Eratosthenes some 2200 years ago,
            > > > and was certainly known some 1000
            > > > (maybe 25 000) years earlier.
            > >
            > > I'm intrigued by the "certainly";
            > > I would have said "probably" for 1k BCE.
            >
            > I'd have said "definitely" for >3k BCE. Base 60 just screams
            > knowledge of divisibility properties.

            Sorry for the late response to this thread but I've been rather tied up
            with Real Life(tm) recently.

            There is a persuasive suggestion that the divisibility properties of
            radix-60 arithmetic is a consequence of its choice, not a reason for its
            choice. The argument goes as follows.

            A number of cultures have independently invented quinary arithmetic, for
            reasons which should be obvious. There are still relics of this in
            modern culture --- the five-bar-gate tallying method, for instance.
            Bi-quinary has also been widely used throughout history. This uses four
            different symbols for the digits 1-4 (the symbols are frequently 1 to 4
            identical lines or dots) and another symbol for 5. Digits 6 through 9
            are then represented by the juxtaposition of the 5-symbol and the
            appropriate symbol for 1 through 4.

            A number of cultures have independently invented duodecimal arithmetic.
            Many relics of this exist: 12 ounces to the Troy pound; 12 inches to the
            foot; 12 pennies to the shilling and so on. The most convincing
            survivors to my mind are the survival of the English words "dozen" and
            "gross".

            Some time around 4000 to 3500 BCE the Sumerians moved into Mesopotamia
            and merged with a pre-existing culture. One culture used quinary or
            bi-quinary and the other duodecimal. Neither culture supplanted the
            other, rather their notations merged. Indeed, the symbols of early
            Mesopotamian arithmetic and accounting documents show strong evidence
            for a bi-quinary (later decimal) sub-structure in the sexagesimal
            notation.

            If need be, I'll try and dig up the references from my catastrophically
            disorganized library.

            Paul
          • djbroadhurst
            ... I learnt to count like that in Chi-Nyanja: modzi : one wiri : two tatu : three nai : four sanu :
            Message 5 of 10 , Dec 23 12:20 PM
              --- In primenumbers@yahoogroups.com,
              Paul Leyland <paul@...> wrote:

              > Digits 6 through 9 are then represented by the juxtaposition
              > of the 5-symbol and the appropriate symbol for 1 through 4.

              I learnt to count like that in Chi-Nyanja:

              modzi : one
              wiri : two
              tatu : three
              nai : four
              sanu : hand
              sanu ndi modzi : hand-and-one
              sanu ndi wiri : hand-and-two
              sanu ndi tatu : hand-and-three
              sanu ndi nai : hand and-four
              khumi : all-together

              It seemed much more sensible than counting in French :-)

              David
            • Phil Carmody
              ... That looks like the choice of 60 precisely because of its divisibility properties. They didn t take the LCM and later make a shock discovery that it had
              Message 6 of 10 , Jan 3, 2010
                --- On Wed, 12/23/09, Paul Leyland <paul@...> wrote:
                > On Tue, 2009-12-01 at 23:54 +0000, Phil Carmody wrote:
                > > > > published by Eratosthenes some 2200 years ago,
                > > > > and was certainly known some 1000
                > > > > (maybe 25 000) years earlier.
                > > >
                > > > I'm intrigued by the "certainly";
                > > > I would have said "probably" for 1k BCE.
                > >
                > > I'd have said "definitely" for >3k BCE. Base 60 just screams
                > > knowledge of divisibility properties.
                >
                > Sorry for the late response to this thread but I've been
                > rather tied up
                > with Real Life(tm) recently.
                >
                > There is a persuasive suggestion that the divisibility
                > properties of
                > radix-60 arithmetic is a consequence of its choice, not a
                > reason for its
                > choice.  The argument goes as follows.
                >
                > A number of cultures have independently invented quinary
                > arithmetic, for
                > reasons which should be obvious.  There are still
                > relics of this in
                > modern culture --- the five-bar-gate tallying method, for
                > instance.
                > Bi-quinary has also been widely used throughout
                > history.  This uses four
                > different symbols for the digits 1-4 (the symbols are
                > frequently 1 to 4
                > identical lines or dots) and another symbol for 5. 
                > Digits 6 through 9
                > are then represented by the juxtaposition of the 5-symbol
                > and the
                > appropriate symbol for 1 through 4.
                >
                > A number of cultures have independently invented duodecimal
                > arithmetic.
                > Many relics of this exist: 12 ounces to the Troy pound; 12
                > inches to the
                > foot; 12 pennies to the shilling and so on.  The most
                > convincing
                > survivors to my mind are the survival of the English words
                > "dozen" and
                > "gross".
                >
                > Some time around 4000 to 3500 BCE the Sumerians moved into
                > Mesopotamia
                > and merged with a pre-existing culture.  One culture
                > used quinary or
                > bi-quinary and the other
                > duodecimal.   Neither culture supplanted the
                > other, rather their notations
                > merged.   Indeed, the symbols of early
                > Mesopotamian arithmetic and accounting documents show
                > strong evidence
                > for a bi-quinary (later decimal) sub-structure in the
                > sexagesimal
                > notation.

                That looks like the choice of 60 precisely because of its divisibility properties. They didn't take the LCM and later make a shock discovery that it had all the factors of the two original numbers, shall we say.

                Phil
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