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Re: 2 scandals

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  • Ram Lau
    Princess David! He probably said that in his second term? His Alzheimer s problem was getting quite real in his last years. His Budget Director, David
    Message 1 of 25 , Aug 19 8:51 AM
      Princess David! He probably said that in his second term? His
      Alzheimer's problem was getting quite real in his last years.

      His Budget Director, David Stockman, actually wrote a book confessing
      how much damage the supply-side (a.k.a. voodoo) economics had damage
      the economy in the long run. I just wonder where the true
      conservatives were and are when it comes to an issue as immoral as
      driving the country into bankrupcy for the future generations.

      Ram


      --- In prezveepsenator@yahoogroups.com, THOMAS JOHNSON <AVRCRDNG@F...>
      wrote:
      > Why Reagan remains so popular with historians and pols
      > totally escapes me. When we lost the 247 marines in
      > Lebanon, he wagged the dog and invaded Grenada to
      > replace the tragedy as the main story . Not much was
      > passed in the way of legislation on his watch but what
      > did get through usually benefited the rich at the
      > expense of the rest of us. He supported Pinochet,
      > Suharto, the Contras and apartheid- era South Africa,
      > going so for as condemning Nelson Mandela as a
      > "communist terrorist." Nobel Peace Prize winner
      > Desmond Tutu called him,"immoral, evil, and totally
      > un-Christian." And then there was the incident where
      > he called Princess Diana "Princess David."
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > --- Ram Lau <ramlau@y...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > ---------------------------------
      > Never a fan of Reagan. An Economics major, I always
      > begin my judgement
      > on Reagan with his tripling the national debt during
      > his 8 consecutive
      > deficit years. And the Cold War and the military
      > spending were not the
      > real reason for the deficit spending.
      >
      > The future generations will look at Reagan quite
      > differently, and will
      > most likely remember the baby boom generation with
      > contempt and
      > disrespect.
      >
      > Ram
      >
      >
      > --- In prezveepsenator@yahoogroups.com, THOMAS JOHNSON
      > <AVRCRDNG@F...>
      > wrote:
      > > While reading about the Harding administration and
      > > the Teapot Dome
      > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teapot_Dome scandal,
      > I
      > > became re-acquainted with Fightin' Bob LaFollette
      > >
      > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_M._La_Follette%2C_Sr.,
      > > who's primary association for me was as a thorn in
      > > Wilson's side. Although Harding was very popular and
      > > the scandal had lost the public's interest,
      > Republican
      > > LaFollette kept investigating through a Senate
      > > committee, with Democrat Thomas Walsh as point man.
      > > Eventually the lies did not hold up, resulting in
      > > imprisonment, suicides, and a disgraced
      > > administration.
      > > Fast forward 60 years to the Reagan administration
      > and
      > > the Iran-Contra scandal
      > > ://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran-Contra_Affair This
      > > administration illegally traded arms for hostages,
      > > with disastrous results reverberating even today.
      > > Special prosecutor Walsh (ironically) granted
      > immunity
      > > to some key figures and everybody walked. Far from
      > re
      > > penitent, House Republicans impeached Bill Clinton,
      > > according to Representative Dana Rohrabacher R-Cal,
      > > primarily as payback for to the Democrats for
      > pursuing
      > > Iran-Contra in the first place.
      > > In my opinion, Reagan did far more damage to our
      > long
      > > term interests than Harding, yet Reagan is ranked
      > the
      > > 11th best president in Cspan's Survey of
      > Presidential
      > > Leadership Survey
      > >
      > http://www.americanpresidents.org/survey/historians/,
      > > comprised of prominent presidential historians, and
      > > Harding is ranked 40th of 41.
      > > How different things might have been if Bob
      > LaFollette
      > > had towed the party line or if Lawrence Walsh had
      > not.
      > >
      > > Tom Johnson
      > > --- Ram Lau <ramlau@y...> wrote:
      > >
      > >
      > > ---------------------------------
      > > Greg,
      > >
      > > Rand has plenty of fans. They've even set up the Ayn
      > > Rand Institute in
      > > her name a decade ago:
      > >
      > > http://www.aynrand.org/
      > >
      > > She's the Milton Friedman of her era:
      > >
      > > "Ayn Rand (1905-1982) was an ardent advocate of
      > > reason, rational
      > > self-interest, individual rights and free-market
      > > capitalism.
      > >
      > > ARI seeks to promote these principles, spearheading
      > a
      > > "cultural
      > > renaissance" that will reverse the anti-reason,
      > > anti-individualism,
      > > anti-freedom, anti-capitalist trends in today's
      > > culture. The major
      > > battleground in this fight for reason and capitalism
      > > is the
      > > educational institutions�high schools, and above
      > all,
      > > the
      > > universities, where students learn the ideas that
      > > shape their lives.
      > >
      > > Ayn Rand's philosophy�known as Objectivism�holds
      > that
      > > historical
      > > trends are the inescapable product of philosophy. To
      > > reverse the
      > > current political and economic trends in America and
      > > throughout the
      > > world requires a reversal of our society's
      > fundamental
      > > philosophy."
      > >
      > > Ram
      > >
      > >
      > > --- In prezveepsenator@yahoogroups.com, Greg Cannon
      > > <gregcannon1@y...>
      > > wrote:
      > > > I have vague knowledge of Rand's writings and
      > > > philosophy. I think they both believed in what
      > they
      > > > thought of as libertarianism, but had very
      > different
      > > > views on what exactly that was. Goldman's allies
      > > were
      > > > nearly always on the left. She had many friends
      > who
      > > > were socialist and communist, though she'd always
      > > > disagree with them on many things. I think the
      > main
      > > > thing they agreed on was that private property
      > > should
      > > > be done away with, and that's one thing I'm sure
      > > Rand
      > > > would disagree with them on. Goldman also joined
      > > them
      > > > on more down-to-earth causes, like birth control.
      > > She
      > > > delivered lectures on birth control, and
      > apparently
      > > > condoms were distributed at her lectures though
      > > birth
      > > > control devices like that weren't legal at the
      > time.
      > > >
      > > > I don't know much about Rand's personal life. Was
      > > she
      > > > as passionate about her beliefs as Goldman was?
      > What
      > > > was she like? For that matter, when did she live?
      > > >
      > > > --- Ram Lau <ramlau@y...> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > > Your mention of Emma Goldman reminds me Ayn
      > Rand,
      > > > > surely a very
      > > > > different personality. (Ann Coulter of her
      > > > > generation?) I sometimes
      > > > > wonder if the Red Scare had anything to do with
      > > the
      > > > > imprisonment.
      > > > >
      > > > > Ram
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > --- In prezveepsenator@yahoogroups.com, Greg
      > > Cannon
      > > > > <gregcannon1@y...>
      > > > > wrote:
      > > > > > I don't know the details of Debs' prosecution,
      > > but
      > > > > I
      > > > > > recall reading that Coolidge eventually
      > pardoned
      > > > > him.
      > > > > > And Debs did still get about a million votes
      > in
      > > > > 1920,
      > > > > > though he was still in jail.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > The best (and really only) book I've read on
      > the
      > > > > use
      > > > > > of the Espionage Act was the second volume of
      > > Emma
      > > > > > Goldman's autobiography. As an immigrant, she
      > > was
      > > > > not
      > > > > > only jailed but also deported to the Soviet
      > > Union
      > > > > > (which she'd left in the 1880s) and never
      > > allowed
      > > > > to
      > > > > > return to America, all because she'd made
      > > speeches
      > > > > > against the war and against the draft.
      > Thousands
      > > > > were
      > > > > > deported at the same time as her. I recall
      > that
      > > > > her
      > > > > > anger was more directed at Wilson's attorney
      > > > > general
      > > > > > than at Wilson himself.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > --- THOMAS JOHNSON <AVRCRDNG@F...> wrote:
      > > > > > > I have read that Wilson was prone to use
      > > > > > > the threat of prosecution of sedition as a
      > > > > > > political
      > > > > > > tool and was not above using propaganda. I'm
      > > > > curious
      > > > > > > whether that it is reasonable to assume
      > that
      > > > > Deb's
      > > > > > > incarceration under the Espionage Act was an
      > > > > attempt
      > > > > > > to lessen his impact on the 1920 race.
      > > > > > > I found the image of a weeping Taft being
      > the
      > > > > last
      > > > > > > to
      > > > > > > leave TR's grave site pretty touching, and
      > the
      > > > > fact
      > > > > > > that TR delivered a 50 minute speech,
      > > > > immediately
      > > > > > > after taking a bullet in the chest,
      > > astounding.
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > Tom Johnson
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > --- Ram Lau <ramlau@y...> wrote:
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > ---------------------------------
      > > > > > > Because of his deep sense of fairness and
      > > > > equality
      > > > > > > that the original
      > > > > > > Republican Party embraced, Taft made a
      > superb
      > > > > > > Supreme
      > > > > > > Court Chief
      > > > > > > Justice. I find it impossible to picture
      > what
      > > > > kind
      > > > > > > of
      > > > > > > Justice Bush or
      > > > > > > Cheney would be, but I pray to God (and I
      > only
      > > > > > > bother
      > > > > > > God when
      > > > > > > necessary) that a Justice Bush/Cheney will
      > > never
      > > > > > > happen to mankind.
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > The 1912 election was a critical election.
      > The
      > > > > > > Democratic Party for
      > > > > > > the first time experienced the progressive
      > > > > elements
      > > > > > > that Woodrow
      > > > > > > Wilson and William Jennings Bryan embraced,
      > > > > while
      > > > > > > the
      > > > > > > Republican Party
      > > > > > > began to turn from a center-left party to
      > > > > something
      > > > > > > totally different
      > > > > > > half a century later. Here is the transcript
      > > of
      > > > > the
      > > > > > > BookTV interview
      > > > > > > with the author of the book "1912: Wilson,
      > > > > > > Roosevelt,
      > > > > > > Taft, and Debs -
      > > > > > > The Election That Changed the Country," a
      > very
      > > > > > > readable book:
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > >
      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/prezveepsenator/message/192
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > Ram
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > --- In prezveepsenator@yahoogroups.com,
      > THOMAS
      > > > > > > JOHNSON
      > > > > > > <AVRCRDNG@F...>
      > > > > > > wrote:
      > > > > > > > Greg and Ram and all, thanks for the
      > > responses
      > > > > and
      > > > > > > > welcoming me into the group. I have
      > > > > entertained
      > > > > > > the
      > > > > > > > notion that perhaps the Taft presidency
      > was
      > > > > the
      > > > > > > most
      > > > > > > > analogous to our current inhabitant. He
      > was
      > > > > born
      > > > > > > into
      > > > > > > > political privilege, divisive, pious,
      > > > > > > > anti-environment, and a pawn of the party
      > > > > > > machinery
      > > > > > > > (TR claimed they stole the 1912 Republican
      > > > > > > > nomination). I also would have included a
      > > > > puppet
      > > > > > > of
      > > > > > > > big business, but after doing a little
      > > reading
      > > > > > > > tonight, he apparently did some
      > > > > trust-busting. He
      > > > > > > > seems to have had a pretty good
      > > > > post-presidency,
      > > > > > > > including serving on the US Supreme Court.
      > I
      > > > > also
      > > > > > > find
      > > > > > > > it heartening that he and TR, who had been
      > > > > close
      > > > > > > > friends( Taft was TR's hand-picked
      > > successor),
      > > > > and
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > were able to have an amicable lunch
      > together
      > > > > > > before
      > > > > > > > the latter's death , significant in that
      > in
      > >
      > > > > the
      > > > > > > 1912
      > > > > > > > primaries terms such as 'fathead' and
      > > > > 'congenital
      > > > > > > > liar' were thrown at each other.
      > > > > > > > I caught a bit of the Carl Sferrazza
      > > Anthony
      > > > > > > Cspan
      > > > > > > > interview on the subject of Nellie Taft
      > > that
      > > > > Ram
      > > > > > > > alluded to and came away with feeling
      > that
      > > > > she
      > > > > > > was
      > > > > > > > pretty cool..thanks Ram for the link to
      > see
      > > > > the
      > > > > > > whole
      > > > > > > > segment and for the great Coolidge
      > > interview,
      > > > > the
      > > > > > > Debs
      > > > > > > > profile and for answering my question. I'm
      > > > > > > learning
      > > > > > > a
      > > > > > > > lot form you guys.
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > Tom Johnson
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > --- Greg Cannon <gregcannon1@y...> wrote:
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > ---------------------------------
      > > > > > > > I can't answer your question, Tom, though
      > > I'd
      > > > > also
      > > > > > > > like to know the answer. Do you or anyone
      > > here
      > > > > > > have
      > > > > > > > suggestions on books or websites to do
      > with
      > > > > the
      > > > > > > Taft
      > > > > > > > administration? The Roosevelt biography
      > I'm
      > > > > > > reading
      > > > > > > > has been mentioning Taft a lot, how Teddy
      > > > > began
      > > > > > > > sending him on important missions and
      > taking
      > > > > Taft
      > > > > > > into
      > > > > > > > his confidence, at least as early as 1905
      > > > > though
      > > > > > > > probably earlier.
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > Roosevelt's occasional anti-trust
      > > prosecutions
      > > > > of
      > > > > > > > monopolies raised quite a storm in his
      > first
      > > > > term,
      > > > > > > but
      > > > >
      > > > === message truncated ===
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > ---------------------------------
      > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
      > >
      > >
      > > Visit your group "prezveepsenator" on the web.
      > >
      > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email
      > to:
      > > prezveepsenator-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      > >
      > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
      > Yahoo!
      > > Terms of Service.
      > >
      > >
      > > ---------------------------------
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ---------------------------------
      > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
      >
      >
      > Visit your group "prezveepsenator" on the web.
      >
      > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      > prezveepsenator-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      >
      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
      > Terms of Service.
      >
      >
      > ---------------------------------
    • THOMAS JOHNSON
      Maybe he got Diana and Stockman mixed up. In an effort to see it from a historian s viewpoint, I did a little reading in hopes of understanding what the
      Message 2 of 25 , Aug 19 9:36 AM
        Maybe he got Diana and Stockman mixed up.
        In an effort to see it from a historian's viewpoint, I
        did a little reading in hopes of understanding what
        the attraction was.. This from the Wikipedia:
        Some analysts argue that the eventual collapse of the
        Soviet Union was due more to the reawakening of
        internal separatist problems under glasnost, an
        inherent weakness in communist economic theory, and
        the depressed global price of crude oil, on which the
        Soviet economy during those years depended heavily.
        Furthermore, Reagan's much heralded military buildup
        that increased American military spending by 8% per
        annum in fact did not appear to have the planned
        effect of forcing the Soviets to mirror American
        growth: according to CIA estimates, Soviet military
        spending levelled off at a growth rate of 1.3% per
        annum in 1975 and remained at that level for a decade,
        rising slightly to approximately 4.3% in 1985 through
        1987 (though spending on offensive strategic weapons
        continued to grow at 1.3% during that period), before
        returning to 1.3% in 1988. It is also often pointed
        out that many actions popularly attributed to Reagan
        were actually initiated by his predecessor Jimmy
        Carter, such as the increase in military spending and
        the decisions to fund anti-communist militant groups
        in Nicaragua and Afghanistan.

        That didn't help.

        Tom


        --- Ram Lau <ramlau@...> wrote:


        ---------------------------------
        Princess David! He probably said that in his second
        term? His
        Alzheimer's problem was getting quite real in his last
        years.

        His Budget Director, David Stockman, actually wrote a
        book confessing
        how much damage the supply-side (a.k.a. voodoo)
        economics had damage
        the economy in the long run. I just wonder where the
        true
        conservatives were and are when it comes to an issue
        as immoral as
        driving the country into bankrupcy for the future
        generations.

        Ram


        --- In prezveepsenator@yahoogroups.com, THOMAS JOHNSON
        <AVRCRDNG@F...>
        wrote:
        > Why Reagan remains so popular with historians and
        pols
        > totally escapes me. When we lost the 247 marines in
        > Lebanon, he wagged the dog and invaded Grenada to
        > replace the tragedy as the main story . Not much was
        > passed in the way of legislation on his watch but
        what
        > did get through usually benefited the rich at the
        > expense of the rest of us. He supported Pinochet,
        > Suharto, the Contras and apartheid- era South
        Africa,
        > going so for as condemning Nelson Mandela as a
        > "communist terrorist." Nobel Peace Prize winner
        > Desmond Tutu called him,"immoral, evil, and totally
        > un-Christian." And then there was the incident
        where
        > he called Princess Diana "Princess David."
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > --- Ram Lau <ramlau@y...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > ---------------------------------
        > Never a fan of Reagan. An Economics major, I always
        > begin my judgement
        > on Reagan with his tripling the national debt during
        > his 8 consecutive
        > deficit years. And the Cold War and the military
        > spending were not the
        > real reason for the deficit spending.
        >
        > The future generations will look at Reagan quite
        > differently, and will
        > most likely remember the baby boom generation with
        > contempt and
        > disrespect.
        >
        > Ram
        >
        >
        > --- In prezveepsenator@yahoogroups.com, THOMAS
        JOHNSON
        > <AVRCRDNG@F...>
        > wrote:
        > > While reading about the Harding administration
        and
        > > the Teapot Dome
        > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teapot_Dome
        scandal,
        > I
        > > became re-acquainted with Fightin' Bob LaFollette
        > >
        >
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_M._La_Follette%2C_Sr.,
        > > who's primary association for me was as a thorn
        in
        > > Wilson's side. Although Harding was very popular
        and
        > > the scandal had lost the public's interest,
        > Republican
        > > LaFollette kept investigating through a Senate
        > > committee, with Democrat Thomas Walsh as point
        man.
        > > Eventually the lies did not hold up, resulting in
        > > imprisonment, suicides, and a disgraced
        > > administration.
        > > Fast forward 60 years to the Reagan administration
        > and
        > > the Iran-Contra scandal
        > > ://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran-Contra_Affair This
        > > administration illegally traded arms for hostages,
        > > with disastrous results reverberating even today.
        > > Special prosecutor Walsh (ironically) granted
        > immunity
        > > to some key figures and everybody walked. Far from
        > re
        > > penitent, House Republicans impeached Bill
        Clinton,
        > > according to Representative Dana Rohrabacher
        R-Cal,
        > > primarily as payback for to the Democrats for
        > pursuing
        > > Iran-Contra in the first place.
        > > In my opinion, Reagan did far more damage to our
        > long
        > > term interests than Harding, yet Reagan is ranked
        > the
        > > 11th best president in Cspan's Survey of
        > Presidential
        > > Leadership Survey
        > >
        >
        http://www.americanpresidents.org/survey/historians/,
        > > comprised of prominent presidential historians,
        and
        > > Harding is ranked 40th of 41.
        > > How different things might have been if Bob
        > LaFollette
        > > had towed the party line or if Lawrence Walsh had
        > not.
        > >
        > > Tom Johnson
        > > --- Ram Lau <ramlau@y...> wrote:
        > >
        > >
        > > ---------------------------------
        > > Greg,
        > >
        > > Rand has plenty of fans. They've even set up the
        Ayn
        > > Rand Institute in
        > > her name a decade ago:
        > >
        > > http://www.aynrand.org/
        > >
        > > She's the Milton Friedman of her era:
        > >
        > > "Ayn Rand (1905-1982) was an ardent advocate of
        > > reason, rational
        > > self-interest, individual rights and free-market
        > > capitalism.
        > >
        > > ARI seeks to promote these principles,
        spearheading
        > a
        > > "cultural
        > > renaissance" that will reverse the anti-reason,
        > > anti-individualism,
        > > anti-freedom, anti-capitalist trends in today's
        > > culture. The major
        > > battleground in this fight for reason and
        capitalism
        > > is the
        > > educational institutions�high schools, and above
        > all,
        > > the
        > > universities, where students learn the ideas that
        > > shape their lives.
        > >
        > > Ayn Rand's philosophy�known as
        Objectivism�holds
        > that
        > > historical
        > > trends are the inescapable product of philosophy.
        To
        > > reverse the
        > > current political and economic trends in America
        and
        > > throughout the
        > > world requires a reversal of our society's
        > fundamental
        > > philosophy."
        > >
        > > Ram
        > >
        > >
        > > --- In prezveepsenator@yahoogroups.com, Greg
        Cannon
        > > <gregcannon1@y...>
        > > wrote:
        > > > I have vague knowledge of Rand's writings and
        > > > philosophy. I think they both believed in what
        > they
        > > > thought of as libertarianism, but had very
        > different
        > > > views on what exactly that was. Goldman's allies
        > > were
        > > > nearly always on the left. She had many friends
        > who
        > > > were socialist and communist, though she'd
        always
        > > > disagree with them on many things. I think the
        > main
        > > > thing they agreed on was that private property
        > > should
        > > > be done away with, and that's one thing I'm sure
        > > Rand
        > > > would disagree with them on. Goldman also joined
        > > them
        > > > on more down-to-earth causes, like birth
        control.
        > > She
        > > > delivered lectures on birth control, and
        > apparently
        > > > condoms were distributed at her lectures though
        > > birth
        > > > control devices like that weren't legal at the
        > time.
        > > >
        > > > I don't know much about Rand's personal life.
        Was
        > > she
        > > > as passionate about her beliefs as Goldman was?
        > What
        > > > was she like? For that matter, when did she
        live?
        > > >
        > > > --- Ram Lau <ramlau@y...> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > > Your mention of Emma Goldman reminds me Ayn
        > Rand,
        > > > > surely a very
        > > > > different personality. (Ann Coulter of her
        > > > > generation?) I sometimes
        > > > > wonder if the Red Scare had anything to do
        with
        > > the
        > > > > imprisonment.
        > > > >
        > > > > Ram
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > --- In prezveepsenator@yahoogroups.com, Greg
        > > Cannon
        > > > > <gregcannon1@y...>
        > > > > wrote:
        > > > > > I don't know the details of Debs'
        prosecution,
        > > but
        > > > > I
        > > > > > recall reading that Coolidge eventually
        > pardoned
        > > > > him.
        > > > > > And Debs did still get about a million votes
        > in
        > > > > 1920,
        > > > > > though he was still in jail.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > The best (and really only) book I've read on
        > the
        > > > > use
        > > > > > of the Espionage Act was the second volume
        of
        > > Emma
        > > > > > Goldman's autobiography. As an immigrant,
        she
        > > was
        > > > > not
        > > > > > only jailed but also deported to the Soviet
        > > Union
        > > > > > (which she'd left in the 1880s) and never
        > > allowed
        > > > > to
        > > > > > return to America, all because she'd made
        > > speeches
        > > > > > against the war and against the draft.
        > Thousands
        > > > > were
        > > > > > deported at the same time as her. I recall
        > that
        > > > > her
        > > > > > anger was more directed at Wilson's attorney
        > > > > general
        > > > > > than at Wilson himself.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > --- THOMAS JOHNSON <AVRCRDNG@F...> wrote:
        > > > > > > I have read that Wilson was prone to use
        > > > > > > the threat of prosecution of sedition as
        a
        > > > > > > political
        > > > > > > tool and was not above using propaganda.
        I'm
        > > > > curious
        > > > > > > whether that it is reasonable to assume
        > that
        > > > > Deb's
        > > > > > > incarceration under the Espionage Act was
        an
        > > > > attempt
        > > > > > > to lessen his impact on the 1920 race.
        > > > > > > I found the image of a weeping Taft being
        > the
        > > > > last
        > > > > > > to
        > > > > > > leave TR's grave site pretty touching, and
        > the
        > > > > fact
        > > > > > > that TR delivered a 50 minute speech,
        > > > > immediately
        > > > > > > after taking a bullet in the chest,
        > > astounding.
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > Tom Johnson
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > --- Ram Lau <ramlau@y...> wrote:
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > ---------------------------------
        > > > > > > Because of his deep sense of fairness and
        > > > > equality
        > > > > > > that the original
        > > > > > > Republican Party embraced, Taft made a
        > superb
        > > > > > > Supreme
        > > > > > > Court Chief
        > > > > > > Justice. I find it impossible to picture
        > what
        > > > > kind
        > > > > > > of
        > > > > > > Justice Bush or
        > > > > > > Cheney would be, but I pray to God (and I
        > only
        > > > > > > bother
        > > > > > > God when
        > > > > > > necessary) that a Justice Bush/Cheney will
        > > never
        > > > > > > happen to mankind.
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > The 1912 election was a critical election.
        > The
        > > > > > > Democratic Party for
        > > > > > > the first time experienced the progressive
        > > > > elements
        > > > > > > that Woodrow
        > > > > > > Wilson and William Jennings Bryan
        embraced,
        > > > > while
        > > > > > > the
        > > > > > > Republican Party
        > > > > > > began to turn from a center-left party to
        > > > > something
        > > > > > > totally different
        > > > > > > half a century later. Here is the
        transcript
        > > of
        > > > > the
        > > > > > > BookTV interview
        > > > > > > with the author of the book "1912: Wilson,
        > > > > > > Roosevelt,
        > > > > > > Taft, and Debs -
        > > > > > > The Election That Changed the Country," a
        > very
        > > > > > > readable book:
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > >
        >
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/prezveepsenator/message/192
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > Ram
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > --- In prezveepsenator@yahoogroups.com,
        > THOMAS
        > > > > > > JOHNSON
        > > > > > > <AVRCRDNG@F...>
        > > > > > > wrote:
        > > > > > > > Greg and Ram and all, thanks for the
        > > responses
        > > > > and
        > > > > > > > welcoming me into the group. I have
        > > > > entertained
        > > > > > > the
        > > > > > > > notion that perhaps the Taft presidency
        > was
        > > > > the
        > > > > > > most
        > > > > > > > analogous to our current inhabitant. He
        > was
        > > > > born
        > > > > > > into
        > > > > > > > political privilege, divisive, pious,
        > > > > > > > anti-environment, and a pawn of the
        party
        > > > > > > machinery
        > > > > > > > (TR claimed they stole the 1912
        Republican
        > > > > > > > nomination). I also would have included
        a
        > > > > puppet
        > > > > > > of
        > > > > > > > big business, but after doing a little
        > > reading
        > > > > > > > tonight, he apparently did some
        > > > > trust-busting. He
        > > > > > > > seems to have had a pretty good
        > > > > post-presidency,
        > > > > > > > including serving on the US Supreme
        Court.
        > I
        > > > > also
        > > > > > > find
        > > > > > > > it heartening that he and TR, who had
        been
        > > > > close
        > > > > > > > friends( Taft was TR's hand-picked
        > > successor),
        > > > > and
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > were able to have an amicable lunch
        > together
        > > > > > > before
        > > > > > > > the latter's death , significant in
        that
        > in
        > >
        > > > > the
        > > > > > > 1912
        > > > > > > > primaries terms such as 'fathead' and
        > > > > 'congenital
        > > > > > > > liar' were thrown at each other.
        > > > > > > > I caught a bit of the Carl Sferrazza
        > > Anthony
        > > > > > > Cspan
        > > > > > > > interview on the subject of Nellie Taft
        > > that
        > > > > Ram
        > > > > > > > alluded to and came away with feeling
        > that
        > > > > she
        > > > > > > was
        > > > > > > > pretty cool..thanks Ram for the link to
        > see
        > > > > the
        > > > > > > whole
        > > > > > > > segment and for the great Coolidge
        > > interview,
        > > > > the
        > > > > > > Debs
        > > > > > > > profile and for answering my question.
        I'm
        > > > > > > learning
        > > > > > > a
        > > > > > > > lot form you guys.
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > Tom Johnson
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > --- Greg Cannon <gregcannon1@y...>
        wrote:
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > ---------------------------------
        > > > > > > > I can't answer your question, Tom,
        though
        > > I'd
        > > > > also
        > > > > > > > like to know the answer. Do you or
        anyone
        > > here
        > > > > > > have
        > > > > > > > suggestions on books or websites to do
        > with
        > > > > the
        > > > > > > Taft
        > > > > > > > administration? The Roosevelt biography
        > I'm
        > > > > > > reading
        > > > > > > > has been mentioning Taft a lot, how
        Teddy
        > > > > began
        > > > > > > > sending him on important missions and
        > taking
        > > > > Taft
        > > > > > > into
        > > > > > > > his confidence, at least as early as
        1905
        > > > > though
        > > > > > > > probably earlier.
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > Roosevelt's occasional anti-trust
        > > prosecutions
        > > > > of
        > > > > > > > monopolies raised quite a storm in his
        > first
        > > > > term,
        > > > > > > but
        > > > >
        > > > === message truncated ===
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > ---------------------------------
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