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Re: was Books now moving to Crazies

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  • greg
    Could you fill me in on what exactly was happening in Lebanon in 1982? I was born that year, and wasn t paying very close attention to politics. I suspect that
    Message 1 of 15 , Mar 17, 2005
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      Could you fill me in on what exactly was happening in Lebanon in 1982?
      I was born that year, and wasn't paying very close attention to politics.

      I suspect that a big reason why so many people, particularly in
      Washington, seem interested in Lebanon right now is more to do with
      having a chance to deal a blow against Syria, who they've ticked off
      at pretty much ever since the official end of the Iraq war. What do
      you think will happen in Lebanon if the Syrian troops really do
      withdraw? Will there be a glorious new free Lebanese democracy? Will
      it return to civil war?
      --- In prezveepsenator@yahoogroups.com, "tonymaloley" <am7788zz@m...>
      wrote:
      >
      > It is only logical to look at why the crazies want to kill
      > Americans. It hurts a lot of people's feelings to hear this stuff,
      > but Osama didn't just pull our name out of a hat. The crazies don't
      > want any infidel encroaching on their sovereignty/land/wasteland or
      > their religion or homes or their lives. I hate to admit it, but the
      > bombs that used to blow up civilians in the west bank and in Lebanon
      > not too long ago do really say "made in USA." I criticize bombings,
      > but that reminds me, it has been a while, so I guess I appreciate
      > Israel's progress in the field of diplomacy.
      >
      > On to Lebanon. Does anyone else think it looks a bit strange for the
      > UN or Nato or whoever to all of a sudden consider freedom for Lebanon
      > to be a huge priority? Wasn't it around 1982 that the crazies bombed
      > the marine barracks, and we pulled the hell out of there? Before
      > this year, have you heard any American who wasn't Lebanese indicate
      > that they ever gave a rat's ass about Lebanon, for over 20 years? I
      > guess it's better late than never. I'm skeptical about the
      > gloriousness of Lebanon's new era, though.
      >
      > PS I'm half Lebanese. Maybe I'm a little sensitive to this stuff.
      > All the angry young men that used to throw rocks at soldiers, and get
      > themselves shot, well, I think it means more to an American when the
      > people getting shot year in, year out, look like their cousins,
      > instead of seeing them as just the kind of people who drive the taxis
      > and talk funny with rags on their heads.
      >
      > - Tony
      >
      >
      > --- In prezveepsenator@yahoogroups.com, "Jesse Gordon" <jesse@j...>
      > wrote:
      >
      > > We use the pretext that "democracy is on the march" and blah blah
      > > blah, but that doesn't change that our colonial subjects hate us as
      > > much as Britain's subjects hated Orwell. (Britain DID democratize
      > > their colonies, and "improve" them in all sorts of other ways, so
      > > they could just as well have said that democracy was on the march).
      > > That hatred is the single most important basis for al Qaeda's
      > > existence, and hence the single largest cause of 9/11.
    • tonymaloley
      This is from a nice site : http://timelines.ws/countries/LEBANON.HTML (I m just trusting them that it s accurate, I was a kid myself!) To sum it up, all hell
      Message 2 of 15 , Mar 20, 2005
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        This is from a nice site : http://timelines.ws/countries/LEBANON.HTML
        (I'm just trusting them that it's accurate, I was a kid myself!)
        To sum it up, all hell broke loose there for a few decades. Here are
        a few events concerning US troops.


        1982 Jul 6, President Ronald Reagan agreed to contribute U.S.
        troops to the peacekeeping unit in Beirut.
        (HN, 7/6/98)

        1982 Aug 20, Some 800 US Marines landed in Beirut, Lebanon, to
        oversee the withdrawal from Lebanon. In 1983 some 250 Marines and
        sailors were killed in two different car and truck bombs.
        (MC, 8/20/02)

        1983 Apr 18, At the U.S. Embassy in Beirut, Lebanon, 62
        people, including 17 Americans, were killed by a suicide bomber. In
        1996 sixteen Islamic militants were ordered to stand trial by a
        military court in Lebanon. Hezbollah leader Imad Mughniyeh was
        suspected of involvement.
        (WSJ, 3/26/96, p.A-1)(AP, 4/18/97)(WSJ, 9/19/01, p.A14)

        1983 Oct 15, US Marine sharpshooters killed 5 snipers at
        Beirut Intl. Airport.
        (MC, 10/15/01)

        1983 Oct 23, A truck filled with explosives, driven by a
        Moslem suicide terrorist, crashed into the U.S. Marine barracks near
        the Beirut International Airport in Lebanon. The bomb killed 241
        Marines and sailors and injured 80. Almost simultaneously, a similar
        incident occurred at French military headquarters, where 58 died and
        15 were injured. Hezbollah leader Imad Mughniyeh was suspected of
        involvement.
        (TMC, 1994, p.1983)(USAT, 6/26/96, p.1A)(WSJ, 8/1/96/p.B1)(AP,
        10/23/97) (HN, 10/23/98)(WSJ, 9/19/01, p.A14)

        1983 Dec 4, US jet fighters struck Syrian anti-aircraft
        positions in Lebanon.
        (MC, 12/4/01)

        1984 Feb 26, Last US marines in multinational peace-keeping
        force in Lebanon left Beirut.
        (SC, 2/26/02)



        --- In prezveepsenator@yahoogroups.com, "greg" <gregcannon1@y...>
        wrote:
        >
        > Could you fill me in on what exactly was happening in Lebanon in
        1982?
        > I was born that year, and wasn't paying very close attention to
        politics.
        >
        > I suspect that a big reason why so many people, particularly in
        > Washington, seem interested in Lebanon right now is more to do with
        > having a chance to deal a blow against Syria, who they've ticked off
        > at pretty much ever since the official end of the Iraq war. What do
        > you think will happen in Lebanon if the Syrian troops really do
        > withdraw? Will there be a glorious new free Lebanese democracy? Will
        > it return to civil war?
        > --- In prezveepsenator@yahoogroups.com, "tonymaloley"
        <am7788zz@m...>
        > wrote:
        > >
        > > It is only logical to look at why the crazies want to kill
        > > Americans. It hurts a lot of people's feelings to hear this
        stuff,
        > > but Osama didn't just pull our name out of a hat. The crazies
        don't
        > > want any infidel encroaching on their sovereignty/land/wasteland
        or
        > > their religion or homes or their lives. I hate to admit it, but
        the
        > > bombs that used to blow up civilians in the west bank and in
        Lebanon
        > > not too long ago do really say "made in USA." I criticize
        bombings,
        > > but that reminds me, it has been a while, so I guess I appreciate
        > > Israel's progress in the field of diplomacy.
        > >
        > > On to Lebanon. Does anyone else think it looks a bit strange for
        the
        > > UN or Nato or whoever to all of a sudden consider freedom for
        Lebanon
        > > to be a huge priority? Wasn't it around 1982 that the crazies
        bombed
        > > the marine barracks, and we pulled the hell out of there? Before
        > > this year, have you heard any American who wasn't Lebanese
        indicate
        > > that they ever gave a rat's ass about Lebanon, for over 20
        years? I
        > > guess it's better late than never. I'm skeptical about the
        > > gloriousness of Lebanon's new era, though.
        > >
        > > PS I'm half Lebanese. Maybe I'm a little sensitive to this
        stuff.
        > > All the angry young men that used to throw rocks at soldiers, and
        get
        > > themselves shot, well, I think it means more to an American when
        the
        > > people getting shot year in, year out, look like their cousins,
        > > instead of seeing them as just the kind of people who drive the
        taxis
        > > and talk funny with rags on their heads.
        > >
        > > - Tony
        > >
        > >
        > > --- In prezveepsenator@yahoogroups.com, "Jesse Gordon"
        <jesse@j...>
        > > wrote:
        > >
        > > > We use the pretext that "democracy is on the march" and blah
        blah
        > > > blah, but that doesn't change that our colonial subjects hate
        us as
        > > > much as Britain's subjects hated Orwell. (Britain DID
        democratize
        > > > their colonies, and "improve" them in all sorts of other ways,
        so
        > > > they could just as well have said that democracy was on the
        march).
        > > > That hatred is the single most important basis for al Qaeda's
        > > > existence, and hence the single largest cause of 9/11.
      • greg
        I read the whole timeline, it was very interesting. It seemed like during the period of Syrian occupation that the number of violent incidents did go down, but
        Message 3 of 15 , Mar 21, 2005
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          I read the whole timeline, it was very interesting. It seemed like
          during the period of Syrian occupation that the number of violent
          incidents did go down, but never really stopped. So when and if the
          Syrian troops leave, will the level of violence remain about what it's
          been the last few years, or will it rise or fall?

          Reading this reminded me of something I read a few days ago in that
          "History of the Middle East" book. In the late 50s and early 60s,
          there were several attempts to unite Egypt and Syria into one country.
          After the Baathists took power in Iraq, they also tried to include
          Iraq. But none of the attempts worked, apparently because Egypt (ruled
          by Nasser at the time) wanted the new country (I think it was to be
          called the United Arab Republic) to be ruled from Cairo and dominated
          by Egyptians. That might've made sense since their economy was better
          and they were a bit more politically stable, but the others didn't
          like it. I was very surprised when I read about it, I'd never heard
          that had happened. Things probably would be quite a bit different
          today if it had worked out.
          --- In prezveepsenator@yahoogroups.com, "tonymaloley" <am7788zz@m...>
          wrote:
          >
          > This is from a nice site : http://timelines.ws/countries/LEBANON.HTML
          > (I'm just trusting them that it's accurate, I was a kid myself!)
          > To sum it up, all hell broke loose there for a few decades. Here are
          > a few events concerning US troops.
          >
          >
          > 1982 Jul 6, President Ronald Reagan agreed to contribute U.S.
          > troops to the peacekeeping unit in Beirut.
          > (HN, 7/6/98)
          >
          > 1982 Aug 20, Some 800 US Marines landed in Beirut, Lebanon, to
          > oversee the withdrawal from Lebanon. In 1983 some 250 Marines and
          > sailors were killed in two different car and truck bombs.
          > (MC, 8/20/02)
          >
          > 1983 Apr 18, At the U.S. Embassy in Beirut, Lebanon, 62
          > people, including 17 Americans, were killed by a suicide bomber. In
          > 1996 sixteen Islamic militants were ordered to stand trial by a
          > military court in Lebanon. Hezbollah leader Imad Mughniyeh was
          > suspected of involvement.
          > (WSJ, 3/26/96, p.A-1)(AP, 4/18/97)(WSJ, 9/19/01, p.A14)
          >
          > 1983 Oct 15, US Marine sharpshooters killed 5 snipers at
          > Beirut Intl. Airport.
          > (MC, 10/15/01)
          >
          > 1983 Oct 23, A truck filled with explosives, driven by a
          > Moslem suicide terrorist, crashed into the U.S. Marine barracks near
          > the Beirut International Airport in Lebanon. The bomb killed 241
          > Marines and sailors and injured 80. Almost simultaneously, a similar
          > incident occurred at French military headquarters, where 58 died and
          > 15 were injured. Hezbollah leader Imad Mughniyeh was suspected of
          > involvement.
          > (TMC, 1994, p.1983)(USAT, 6/26/96, p.1A)(WSJ, 8/1/96/p.B1)(AP,
          > 10/23/97) (HN, 10/23/98)(WSJ, 9/19/01, p.A14)
          >
          > 1983 Dec 4, US jet fighters struck Syrian anti-aircraft
          > positions in Lebanon.
          > (MC, 12/4/01)
          >
          > 1984 Feb 26, Last US marines in multinational peace-keeping
          > force in Lebanon left Beirut.
          > (SC, 2/26/02)
          >
          >
          >
          > --- In prezveepsenator@yahoogroups.com, "greg" <gregcannon1@y...>
          > wrote:
          > >
          > > Could you fill me in on what exactly was happening in Lebanon in
          > 1982?
          > > I was born that year, and wasn't paying very close attention to
          > politics.
          > >
          > > I suspect that a big reason why so many people, particularly in
          > > Washington, seem interested in Lebanon right now is more to do with
          > > having a chance to deal a blow against Syria, who they've ticked off
          > > at pretty much ever since the official end of the Iraq war. What do
          > > you think will happen in Lebanon if the Syrian troops really do
          > > withdraw? Will there be a glorious new free Lebanese democracy? Will
          > > it return to civil war?
          > > --- In prezveepsenator@yahoogroups.com, "tonymaloley"
          > <am7788zz@m...>
          > > wrote:
          > > >
          > > > It is only logical to look at why the crazies want to kill
          > > > Americans. It hurts a lot of people's feelings to hear this
          > stuff,
          > > > but Osama didn't just pull our name out of a hat. The crazies
          > don't
          > > > want any infidel encroaching on their sovereignty/land/wasteland
          > or
          > > > their religion or homes or their lives. I hate to admit it, but
          > the
          > > > bombs that used to blow up civilians in the west bank and in
          > Lebanon
          > > > not too long ago do really say "made in USA." I criticize
          > bombings,
          > > > but that reminds me, it has been a while, so I guess I appreciate
          > > > Israel's progress in the field of diplomacy.
          > > >
          > > > On to Lebanon. Does anyone else think it looks a bit strange for
          > the
          > > > UN or Nato or whoever to all of a sudden consider freedom for
          > Lebanon
          > > > to be a huge priority? Wasn't it around 1982 that the crazies
          > bombed
          > > > the marine barracks, and we pulled the hell out of there? Before
          > > > this year, have you heard any American who wasn't Lebanese
          > indicate
          > > > that they ever gave a rat's ass about Lebanon, for over 20
          > years? I
          > > > guess it's better late than never. I'm skeptical about the
          > > > gloriousness of Lebanon's new era, though.
          > > >
          > > > PS I'm half Lebanese. Maybe I'm a little sensitive to this
          > stuff.
          > > > All the angry young men that used to throw rocks at soldiers, and
          > get
          > > > themselves shot, well, I think it means more to an American when
          > the
          > > > people getting shot year in, year out, look like their cousins,
          > > > instead of seeing them as just the kind of people who drive the
          > taxis
          > > > and talk funny with rags on their heads.
          > > >
          > > > - Tony
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > --- In prezveepsenator@yahoogroups.com, "Jesse Gordon"
          > <jesse@j...>
          > > > wrote:
          > > >
          > > > > We use the pretext that "democracy is on the march" and blah
          > blah
          > > > > blah, but that doesn't change that our colonial subjects hate
          > us as
          > > > > much as Britain's subjects hated Orwell. (Britain DID
          > democratize
          > > > > their colonies, and "improve" them in all sorts of other ways,
          > so
          > > > > they could just as well have said that democracy was on the
          > march).
          > > > > That hatred is the single most important basis for al Qaeda's
          > > > > existence, and hence the single largest cause of 9/11.
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