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Re: Books That Have Changed My Life

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  • greg
    I guess it depends on how long the U.S. remains a superpower. We seem to be declining economically, and eventually we might be overtaken in that regard by
    Message 1 of 15 , Mar 15, 2005
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      I guess it depends on how long the U.S. remains a superpower. We seem
      to be declining economically, and eventually we might be overtaken in
      that regard by China, India, and the EU. Or maybe not, who knows? Our
      military is still very large, well-trained, with all the latest
      technological gadgets and isn't likely to be overtaken by anyone
      anytime soon, but it now has a problem finding enough recruits.

      I'm not sure we really are running the world as much as it appears we
      are, or as much we would like to be. But we are trying, for sure.

      About outer space- well, I should admit I'm a big Star Trek fan and
      thus have romantic notions about space exploration. But I imagine in
      the next century or two colonies will be built on the moon and Mars.
      To do much more than that would probably require incredible
      technological advances. Population is growing very fast and some
      countries are running out of room, so starting a colony on another
      planet might seem like a good solution. And in the very long run, when
      the sun dies it'll probably take the Earth with it, so it might be a
      good idea to colonize other places before then.

      I remember last year the president of India was suggesting that India
      and the U.S. build a joint colony, on either the moon or Mars, I
      forget which. I don't remember if he got a reply. If and when we do
      start colonizing, will it happen in the same way that the Europeans
      colonized the Americas? There won't be any natives to fight, but how
      long before two colonies on the moon are competing for room or for
      natural resources of some sort, and then start fighting each other? Or
      rebel against their parent country back on Earth? What do you all think?

      --- In prezveepsenator@yahoogroups.com, "Ram Lau" <ramlau@y...> wrote:
      >
      > I can't help but wonder what the next superpower will do. Oil will be
      > a lesser issue since we are running out in the whole world anyway. Are
      > we talking about outer space yet? It will be interesting to see what
      > kind of role the next hegemony will play.
      >
      > Ram
    • Ram Lau
      ... We haven t really found anything useful on the moon... or have we? And which founding father would be most likely to be the one who goes to the moon to pay
      Message 2 of 15 , Mar 16, 2005
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        > long before two colonies on the moon are competing for room or for
        > natural resources of some sort, and then start fighting each other?

        We haven't really found anything useful on the moon... or have we? And
        which founding father would be most likely to be the one who goes to
        the moon to pay a visit? Ben Franklin again?

        Ram
      • tonymaloley
        It is only logical to look at why the crazies want to kill Americans. It hurts a lot of people s feelings to hear this stuff, but Osama didn t just pull our
        Message 3 of 15 , Mar 16, 2005
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          It is only logical to look at why the crazies want to kill
          Americans. It hurts a lot of people's feelings to hear this stuff,
          but Osama didn't just pull our name out of a hat. The crazies don't
          want any infidel encroaching on their sovereignty/land/wasteland or
          their religion or homes or their lives. I hate to admit it, but the
          bombs that used to blow up civilians in the west bank and in Lebanon
          not too long ago do really say "made in USA." I criticize bombings,
          but that reminds me, it has been a while, so I guess I appreciate
          Israel's progress in the field of diplomacy.

          On to Lebanon. Does anyone else think it looks a bit strange for the
          UN or Nato or whoever to all of a sudden consider freedom for Lebanon
          to be a huge priority? Wasn't it around 1982 that the crazies bombed
          the marine barracks, and we pulled the hell out of there? Before
          this year, have you heard any American who wasn't Lebanese indicate
          that they ever gave a rat's ass about Lebanon, for over 20 years? I
          guess it's better late than never. I'm skeptical about the
          gloriousness of Lebanon's new era, though.

          PS I'm half Lebanese. Maybe I'm a little sensitive to this stuff.
          All the angry young men that used to throw rocks at soldiers, and get
          themselves shot, well, I think it means more to an American when the
          people getting shot year in, year out, look like their cousins,
          instead of seeing them as just the kind of people who drive the taxis
          and talk funny with rags on their heads.

          - Tony


          --- In prezveepsenator@yahoogroups.com, "Jesse Gordon" <jesse@j...>
          wrote:

          > We use the pretext that "democracy is on the march" and blah blah
          > blah, but that doesn't change that our colonial subjects hate us as
          > much as Britain's subjects hated Orwell. (Britain DID democratize
          > their colonies, and "improve" them in all sorts of other ways, so
          > they could just as well have said that democracy was on the march).
          > That hatred is the single most important basis for al Qaeda's
          > existence, and hence the single largest cause of 9/11.
        • greg
          I remember hearing once there s quite a bit of uranium on the moon, but I don t have a source to back that up, and there doesn t seem to be a great lack of
          Message 4 of 15 , Mar 17, 2005
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            I remember hearing once there's quite a bit of uranium on the moon,
            but I don't have a source to back that up, and there doesn't seem to
            be a great lack of uranium around here.

            I can see Ben Franklin enjoying a visit to the moon. He seemed to like
            to travel and to experience new things.
            --- In prezveepsenator@yahoogroups.com, "Ram Lau" <ramlau@y...> wrote:
            >
            > > long before two colonies on the moon are competing for room or for
            > > natural resources of some sort, and then start fighting each other?
            >
            > We haven't really found anything useful on the moon... or have we? And
            > which founding father would be most likely to be the one who goes to
            > the moon to pay a visit? Ben Franklin again?
            >
            > Ram
          • greg
            Could you fill me in on what exactly was happening in Lebanon in 1982? I was born that year, and wasn t paying very close attention to politics. I suspect that
            Message 5 of 15 , Mar 17, 2005
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              Could you fill me in on what exactly was happening in Lebanon in 1982?
              I was born that year, and wasn't paying very close attention to politics.

              I suspect that a big reason why so many people, particularly in
              Washington, seem interested in Lebanon right now is more to do with
              having a chance to deal a blow against Syria, who they've ticked off
              at pretty much ever since the official end of the Iraq war. What do
              you think will happen in Lebanon if the Syrian troops really do
              withdraw? Will there be a glorious new free Lebanese democracy? Will
              it return to civil war?
              --- In prezveepsenator@yahoogroups.com, "tonymaloley" <am7788zz@m...>
              wrote:
              >
              > It is only logical to look at why the crazies want to kill
              > Americans. It hurts a lot of people's feelings to hear this stuff,
              > but Osama didn't just pull our name out of a hat. The crazies don't
              > want any infidel encroaching on their sovereignty/land/wasteland or
              > their religion or homes or their lives. I hate to admit it, but the
              > bombs that used to blow up civilians in the west bank and in Lebanon
              > not too long ago do really say "made in USA." I criticize bombings,
              > but that reminds me, it has been a while, so I guess I appreciate
              > Israel's progress in the field of diplomacy.
              >
              > On to Lebanon. Does anyone else think it looks a bit strange for the
              > UN or Nato or whoever to all of a sudden consider freedom for Lebanon
              > to be a huge priority? Wasn't it around 1982 that the crazies bombed
              > the marine barracks, and we pulled the hell out of there? Before
              > this year, have you heard any American who wasn't Lebanese indicate
              > that they ever gave a rat's ass about Lebanon, for over 20 years? I
              > guess it's better late than never. I'm skeptical about the
              > gloriousness of Lebanon's new era, though.
              >
              > PS I'm half Lebanese. Maybe I'm a little sensitive to this stuff.
              > All the angry young men that used to throw rocks at soldiers, and get
              > themselves shot, well, I think it means more to an American when the
              > people getting shot year in, year out, look like their cousins,
              > instead of seeing them as just the kind of people who drive the taxis
              > and talk funny with rags on their heads.
              >
              > - Tony
              >
              >
              > --- In prezveepsenator@yahoogroups.com, "Jesse Gordon" <jesse@j...>
              > wrote:
              >
              > > We use the pretext that "democracy is on the march" and blah blah
              > > blah, but that doesn't change that our colonial subjects hate us as
              > > much as Britain's subjects hated Orwell. (Britain DID democratize
              > > their colonies, and "improve" them in all sorts of other ways, so
              > > they could just as well have said that democracy was on the march).
              > > That hatred is the single most important basis for al Qaeda's
              > > existence, and hence the single largest cause of 9/11.
            • tonymaloley
              This is from a nice site : http://timelines.ws/countries/LEBANON.HTML (I m just trusting them that it s accurate, I was a kid myself!) To sum it up, all hell
              Message 6 of 15 , Mar 20, 2005
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                This is from a nice site : http://timelines.ws/countries/LEBANON.HTML
                (I'm just trusting them that it's accurate, I was a kid myself!)
                To sum it up, all hell broke loose there for a few decades. Here are
                a few events concerning US troops.


                1982 Jul 6, President Ronald Reagan agreed to contribute U.S.
                troops to the peacekeeping unit in Beirut.
                (HN, 7/6/98)

                1982 Aug 20, Some 800 US Marines landed in Beirut, Lebanon, to
                oversee the withdrawal from Lebanon. In 1983 some 250 Marines and
                sailors were killed in two different car and truck bombs.
                (MC, 8/20/02)

                1983 Apr 18, At the U.S. Embassy in Beirut, Lebanon, 62
                people, including 17 Americans, were killed by a suicide bomber. In
                1996 sixteen Islamic militants were ordered to stand trial by a
                military court in Lebanon. Hezbollah leader Imad Mughniyeh was
                suspected of involvement.
                (WSJ, 3/26/96, p.A-1)(AP, 4/18/97)(WSJ, 9/19/01, p.A14)

                1983 Oct 15, US Marine sharpshooters killed 5 snipers at
                Beirut Intl. Airport.
                (MC, 10/15/01)

                1983 Oct 23, A truck filled with explosives, driven by a
                Moslem suicide terrorist, crashed into the U.S. Marine barracks near
                the Beirut International Airport in Lebanon. The bomb killed 241
                Marines and sailors and injured 80. Almost simultaneously, a similar
                incident occurred at French military headquarters, where 58 died and
                15 were injured. Hezbollah leader Imad Mughniyeh was suspected of
                involvement.
                (TMC, 1994, p.1983)(USAT, 6/26/96, p.1A)(WSJ, 8/1/96/p.B1)(AP,
                10/23/97) (HN, 10/23/98)(WSJ, 9/19/01, p.A14)

                1983 Dec 4, US jet fighters struck Syrian anti-aircraft
                positions in Lebanon.
                (MC, 12/4/01)

                1984 Feb 26, Last US marines in multinational peace-keeping
                force in Lebanon left Beirut.
                (SC, 2/26/02)



                --- In prezveepsenator@yahoogroups.com, "greg" <gregcannon1@y...>
                wrote:
                >
                > Could you fill me in on what exactly was happening in Lebanon in
                1982?
                > I was born that year, and wasn't paying very close attention to
                politics.
                >
                > I suspect that a big reason why so many people, particularly in
                > Washington, seem interested in Lebanon right now is more to do with
                > having a chance to deal a blow against Syria, who they've ticked off
                > at pretty much ever since the official end of the Iraq war. What do
                > you think will happen in Lebanon if the Syrian troops really do
                > withdraw? Will there be a glorious new free Lebanese democracy? Will
                > it return to civil war?
                > --- In prezveepsenator@yahoogroups.com, "tonymaloley"
                <am7788zz@m...>
                > wrote:
                > >
                > > It is only logical to look at why the crazies want to kill
                > > Americans. It hurts a lot of people's feelings to hear this
                stuff,
                > > but Osama didn't just pull our name out of a hat. The crazies
                don't
                > > want any infidel encroaching on their sovereignty/land/wasteland
                or
                > > their religion or homes or their lives. I hate to admit it, but
                the
                > > bombs that used to blow up civilians in the west bank and in
                Lebanon
                > > not too long ago do really say "made in USA." I criticize
                bombings,
                > > but that reminds me, it has been a while, so I guess I appreciate
                > > Israel's progress in the field of diplomacy.
                > >
                > > On to Lebanon. Does anyone else think it looks a bit strange for
                the
                > > UN or Nato or whoever to all of a sudden consider freedom for
                Lebanon
                > > to be a huge priority? Wasn't it around 1982 that the crazies
                bombed
                > > the marine barracks, and we pulled the hell out of there? Before
                > > this year, have you heard any American who wasn't Lebanese
                indicate
                > > that they ever gave a rat's ass about Lebanon, for over 20
                years? I
                > > guess it's better late than never. I'm skeptical about the
                > > gloriousness of Lebanon's new era, though.
                > >
                > > PS I'm half Lebanese. Maybe I'm a little sensitive to this
                stuff.
                > > All the angry young men that used to throw rocks at soldiers, and
                get
                > > themselves shot, well, I think it means more to an American when
                the
                > > people getting shot year in, year out, look like their cousins,
                > > instead of seeing them as just the kind of people who drive the
                taxis
                > > and talk funny with rags on their heads.
                > >
                > > - Tony
                > >
                > >
                > > --- In prezveepsenator@yahoogroups.com, "Jesse Gordon"
                <jesse@j...>
                > > wrote:
                > >
                > > > We use the pretext that "democracy is on the march" and blah
                blah
                > > > blah, but that doesn't change that our colonial subjects hate
                us as
                > > > much as Britain's subjects hated Orwell. (Britain DID
                democratize
                > > > their colonies, and "improve" them in all sorts of other ways,
                so
                > > > they could just as well have said that democracy was on the
                march).
                > > > That hatred is the single most important basis for al Qaeda's
                > > > existence, and hence the single largest cause of 9/11.
              • greg
                I read the whole timeline, it was very interesting. It seemed like during the period of Syrian occupation that the number of violent incidents did go down, but
                Message 7 of 15 , Mar 21, 2005
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                  I read the whole timeline, it was very interesting. It seemed like
                  during the period of Syrian occupation that the number of violent
                  incidents did go down, but never really stopped. So when and if the
                  Syrian troops leave, will the level of violence remain about what it's
                  been the last few years, or will it rise or fall?

                  Reading this reminded me of something I read a few days ago in that
                  "History of the Middle East" book. In the late 50s and early 60s,
                  there were several attempts to unite Egypt and Syria into one country.
                  After the Baathists took power in Iraq, they also tried to include
                  Iraq. But none of the attempts worked, apparently because Egypt (ruled
                  by Nasser at the time) wanted the new country (I think it was to be
                  called the United Arab Republic) to be ruled from Cairo and dominated
                  by Egyptians. That might've made sense since their economy was better
                  and they were a bit more politically stable, but the others didn't
                  like it. I was very surprised when I read about it, I'd never heard
                  that had happened. Things probably would be quite a bit different
                  today if it had worked out.
                  --- In prezveepsenator@yahoogroups.com, "tonymaloley" <am7788zz@m...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  > This is from a nice site : http://timelines.ws/countries/LEBANON.HTML
                  > (I'm just trusting them that it's accurate, I was a kid myself!)
                  > To sum it up, all hell broke loose there for a few decades. Here are
                  > a few events concerning US troops.
                  >
                  >
                  > 1982 Jul 6, President Ronald Reagan agreed to contribute U.S.
                  > troops to the peacekeeping unit in Beirut.
                  > (HN, 7/6/98)
                  >
                  > 1982 Aug 20, Some 800 US Marines landed in Beirut, Lebanon, to
                  > oversee the withdrawal from Lebanon. In 1983 some 250 Marines and
                  > sailors were killed in two different car and truck bombs.
                  > (MC, 8/20/02)
                  >
                  > 1983 Apr 18, At the U.S. Embassy in Beirut, Lebanon, 62
                  > people, including 17 Americans, were killed by a suicide bomber. In
                  > 1996 sixteen Islamic militants were ordered to stand trial by a
                  > military court in Lebanon. Hezbollah leader Imad Mughniyeh was
                  > suspected of involvement.
                  > (WSJ, 3/26/96, p.A-1)(AP, 4/18/97)(WSJ, 9/19/01, p.A14)
                  >
                  > 1983 Oct 15, US Marine sharpshooters killed 5 snipers at
                  > Beirut Intl. Airport.
                  > (MC, 10/15/01)
                  >
                  > 1983 Oct 23, A truck filled with explosives, driven by a
                  > Moslem suicide terrorist, crashed into the U.S. Marine barracks near
                  > the Beirut International Airport in Lebanon. The bomb killed 241
                  > Marines and sailors and injured 80. Almost simultaneously, a similar
                  > incident occurred at French military headquarters, where 58 died and
                  > 15 were injured. Hezbollah leader Imad Mughniyeh was suspected of
                  > involvement.
                  > (TMC, 1994, p.1983)(USAT, 6/26/96, p.1A)(WSJ, 8/1/96/p.B1)(AP,
                  > 10/23/97) (HN, 10/23/98)(WSJ, 9/19/01, p.A14)
                  >
                  > 1983 Dec 4, US jet fighters struck Syrian anti-aircraft
                  > positions in Lebanon.
                  > (MC, 12/4/01)
                  >
                  > 1984 Feb 26, Last US marines in multinational peace-keeping
                  > force in Lebanon left Beirut.
                  > (SC, 2/26/02)
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In prezveepsenator@yahoogroups.com, "greg" <gregcannon1@y...>
                  > wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Could you fill me in on what exactly was happening in Lebanon in
                  > 1982?
                  > > I was born that year, and wasn't paying very close attention to
                  > politics.
                  > >
                  > > I suspect that a big reason why so many people, particularly in
                  > > Washington, seem interested in Lebanon right now is more to do with
                  > > having a chance to deal a blow against Syria, who they've ticked off
                  > > at pretty much ever since the official end of the Iraq war. What do
                  > > you think will happen in Lebanon if the Syrian troops really do
                  > > withdraw? Will there be a glorious new free Lebanese democracy? Will
                  > > it return to civil war?
                  > > --- In prezveepsenator@yahoogroups.com, "tonymaloley"
                  > <am7788zz@m...>
                  > > wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > It is only logical to look at why the crazies want to kill
                  > > > Americans. It hurts a lot of people's feelings to hear this
                  > stuff,
                  > > > but Osama didn't just pull our name out of a hat. The crazies
                  > don't
                  > > > want any infidel encroaching on their sovereignty/land/wasteland
                  > or
                  > > > their religion or homes or their lives. I hate to admit it, but
                  > the
                  > > > bombs that used to blow up civilians in the west bank and in
                  > Lebanon
                  > > > not too long ago do really say "made in USA." I criticize
                  > bombings,
                  > > > but that reminds me, it has been a while, so I guess I appreciate
                  > > > Israel's progress in the field of diplomacy.
                  > > >
                  > > > On to Lebanon. Does anyone else think it looks a bit strange for
                  > the
                  > > > UN or Nato or whoever to all of a sudden consider freedom for
                  > Lebanon
                  > > > to be a huge priority? Wasn't it around 1982 that the crazies
                  > bombed
                  > > > the marine barracks, and we pulled the hell out of there? Before
                  > > > this year, have you heard any American who wasn't Lebanese
                  > indicate
                  > > > that they ever gave a rat's ass about Lebanon, for over 20
                  > years? I
                  > > > guess it's better late than never. I'm skeptical about the
                  > > > gloriousness of Lebanon's new era, though.
                  > > >
                  > > > PS I'm half Lebanese. Maybe I'm a little sensitive to this
                  > stuff.
                  > > > All the angry young men that used to throw rocks at soldiers, and
                  > get
                  > > > themselves shot, well, I think it means more to an American when
                  > the
                  > > > people getting shot year in, year out, look like their cousins,
                  > > > instead of seeing them as just the kind of people who drive the
                  > taxis
                  > > > and talk funny with rags on their heads.
                  > > >
                  > > > - Tony
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > --- In prezveepsenator@yahoogroups.com, "Jesse Gordon"
                  > <jesse@j...>
                  > > > wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > > We use the pretext that "democracy is on the march" and blah
                  > blah
                  > > > > blah, but that doesn't change that our colonial subjects hate
                  > us as
                  > > > > much as Britain's subjects hated Orwell. (Britain DID
                  > democratize
                  > > > > their colonies, and "improve" them in all sorts of other ways,
                  > so
                  > > > > they could just as well have said that democracy was on the
                  > march).
                  > > > > That hatred is the single most important basis for al Qaeda's
                  > > > > existence, and hence the single largest cause of 9/11.
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