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Re: [prezveepsenator] Re: The "Hate-America" Left

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  • richard kelly
    Gregory: You re certainly well infored enought to know its a great over simplification to say Bush was appointed by the Supreme Court. Bush won the popular
    Message 1 of 22 , Jun 27 11:05 AM
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      Gregory:

      You're certainly well infored enought to know
      its a great over simplification to say Bush was
      "appointed by the Supreme Court." Bush won the
      popular vote and the recount in Florida, then the
      Gore lawyers failed on numerous occasions to reverse
      this, so then the Florida Supreme Court called a
      statewide recount. As the Supreme Court ruled, the
      Florida Supreme Court had no authority to do this and
      they also provided no guidance. As has been pointed
      out, thanks to the Gore lawyers and their discovery of
      "hanging chads" etc, etc., even within the same voting
      station there was no consensus on what was and was not
      a vote. It was the Florida Supreme Court that was out
      of bounds. Hey, you're the "rule of law at all times"
      guy, right? The Democrats are such sore losers, even 6
      years later.

      Richard Kelly




      --- Gregory <greggolopry@...> wrote:

      > Rich,
      >
      > And of course Abe actually won his election to high
      > office. A point
      > we should not forget.
      >
      > But Bush was appointed by the Supreme Court and we
      > can think about
      > the results. Iraq war. 2,500 (plus)soldiers
      > killed. tens-of-
      > thousands wounded in various ways. Well over 38,000
      > Iraqis killed.
      >
      > Laws and process matter. This whole series of posts
      > started with you
      > being angry over the NYT reporting that the Bush
      > team did mot adhere
      > to the rules and process for the banking matter in
      > question.
      >
      > When laws and process are not followed bad things
      > happen.
      >
      > Gregory
      >
      > --- In prezveepsenator@yahoogroups.com, richard
      > kelly
      > <richwkelly@...> wrote:
      > >
      > > I'd rate it as not great, not terrible, somewhere
      > in
      > > the middle. Of course there was only one Abraham
      > > Lincoln. But Lincoln wasn't on the ballot in 2000
      > or
      > > 2004, was he?
      > >
      > > Richard Kelly
      > >
      > > --- THOMAS JOHNSON <AVRCRDNG@...> wrote:
      > >
      > > > Good reply, Gregory.. Lincoln's genius was due,
      > in
      > > > no
      > > > small part, to his empathy.. he could understand
      > > > competing viewpoints and translate them into
      > policy,
      > > > and Richard, you are correct in assuming that he
      > was
      > > > not all that popular and, indeed, barely won
      > > > re-election.
      > > > Richard, how would you characterize Bush's
      > > > presidency?
      > > > Good? Great? Mediocre? Poor? Bottom-rung? Top
      > shelf?
      > > > Just curious...
      > > >
      > > > Tom
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > --- Gregory <greggolopry@...> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > > Rich,
      > > > >
      > > > > Let me be perfectly clear...Bush is NO
      > Lincoln.
      > > > > Consider if you
      > > > > will...
      > > > >
      > > > > Lincoln had a most difficult task of insuring
      > that
      > > > > the nation did not
      > > > > dissolve into separate halves. Bush faces a
      > war on
      > > > > terrorism,
      > > > > committed by Osma Bin Laden, which has been
      > > > > overlooked so America
      > > > > could invade Iraq.
      > > > >
      > > > > But how Lincoln reacted to his situation tells
      > us
      > > > > much about how Bush
      > > > > could better handle his.
      > > > >
      > > > > Lincoln was most able to take competing
      > viewpoints
      > > > > and bridge the
      > > > > differences. His own party had very deep
      > divisions
      > > > > over the Radicals
      > > > > who wanted a very strident effort to end
      > slavery
      > > > at
      > > > > once, and
      > > > > moderate elements that wished to find a more
      > > > select
      > > > > and cautious
      > > > > series of steps to achieve mostly the same
      > result.
      > > > > At the same time
      > > > > Lincoln hoped not to undermine those who were
      > in
      > > > the
      > > > > Democratic camp
      > > > > but were not totally opposed to his ideas.
      > > > >
      > > > > Today the nation is highly divided over the
      > war,
      > > > how
      > > > > the evidence was
      > > > > gathered and presented to take our country
      > into
      > > > > battle, and how the
      > > > > continued rationale for war is taking us
      > nowhere.
      > > > >
      > > > > Lincoln understood that to do the job as Chief
      > > > > Executive he needed to
      > > > > mire himself firmly in the daily operations of
      > the
      > > > > war. He digested
      > > > > information and became self-schooled in
      > military
      > > > > matters even though
      > > > > he (like Bush) had limited military
      > experience. It
      > > > > has been reported
      > > > > in many books how Lincoln went to the War
      > > > Department
      > > > > and would
      > > > > stretch back in a chair and read memos from
      > his
      > > > > generals and military
      > > > > personnel via the telegraph. He had a desire
      > to
      > > > > understand the war
      > > > > strategy so as to be a better war President.
      > > > >
      > > > > There is little evidence that Bush prides
      > himself
      > > > at
      > > > > being highly
      > > > > adept at any topic, and no one has ever
      > suggested
      > > > he
      > > > > reads volumes of
      > > > > information so as to convince the public he
      > has
      > > > the
      > > > > mental resources
      > > > > to make valid decisions.
      > > > >
      > > > > Lincoln understood that when the campaign to
      > win
      > > > the
      > > > > war was not
      > > > > succeeding it was time to change strategies
      > and
      > > > > commanders. Many a
      > > > > general and military commander was sent
      > packing
      > > > > after not meeting the
      > > > > needs of a winning northern campaign to bring
      > the
      > > > > Confederacy back
      > > > > into the Union.
      > > > >
      > > > > There has been an unwillingness to admit
      > mistakes
      > > > > with the Iraq war
      > > > > even though failures have presented themselves
      > at
      > > > > every turn. From
      > > > > too few military personnel sent to control
      > Iraq
      > > > > after the downfall of
      > > > > the Iraqi government, to the reluctance to get
      > > > > international players
      > > > > involved in Iraq after Bush stated "mission
      > > > > accomplished' all shows a
      > > > > lack of leadership and insight.
      > > > >
      > > > > Finally, Lincoln understood the weight of
      > words
      > > > was
      > > > > required to
      > > > > convince a war weary public that the effort
      > needed
      > > > > to continue was
      > > > > vital. He well understood convictions without
      > > > > oratory in time of
      > > > > national trauma, is a leader without a nation
      > of
      > > > > followers.
      > > > >
      > > > > Bush has many obstacles to contend with, but a
      > > > > failed war strategy is
      > > > > at the heart of all his current woes. Without
      > > > > addressing how the war
      > > > > failed will mean he cannot reclaim his
      > position in
      >
      === message truncated ===


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