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Re: [prezveepsenator] America's biggest mistake

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  • THOMAS JOHNSON
    I agree with Richard that we tend to rank recent debacles with more weight than those that have faded from memory a bit. What do you guys consider some of the
    Message 1 of 7 , Jun 15, 2006
      I agree with Richard that we tend to rank recent
      debacles with more weight than those that have faded
      from memory a bit. What do you guys consider some of
      the greatest presidential blunders, foreign policy or
      otherwise?
      Right now I would agree that Viet Nam is the
      worst..others that come to mind are Bay of Pigs,
      internment of the Japanese, Hooverville.
      Any other opinions?

      Tom



      --- Richard Kelly <richwkelly@...> wrote:

      > I'm not really arguing with Thomas, but we live so
      > much in
      > the present tense we maybe forget other American big
      > mistakes.
      > The war in Vietnam, for example, caused over 58,000
      > American
      > casualties. (Thats according to the Wikipedia) Off
      > hand, it
      > would seem to have been a bigger mistake than Iraq.
      >
      > Its just like in your archives you had some poll in
      > which a
      > high percentage of people said George W Bush is "the
      > worse
      > President in history" (The choice was actually among
      > 20th century presidents after FDR) Well, I can bet
      > you if you
      > had taken the poll during Nixon's term, a high
      > percentage
      > would have voted him the "worse President in
      > history," same
      > for several others. I suppose Ike enjoyed fairly OK
      > approval
      > ratings (if they had them back then) but I would
      > guess LBJ,
      > Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, all had many critics
      > who would say
      > at one time or the other, "this guy is the worse
      > President ever!"
      > Of course the same would go for Bill Clinton (I dont
      > know if Bush
      > 41 had that many people who truly hated him) So, our
      > perceptions
      > aren't always strictly speaking historical.
      >
      > Richard Kelly
      >
      >
      >
      >
    • Ram Lau
      Iraq is worse than Vietnam in terms of its bad precedence of preemption based on DECEITS AND FALSE PRETENSE and very negative long term effects on
      Message 2 of 7 , Jun 15, 2006
        Iraq is worse than Vietnam in terms of its bad precedence of
        preemption based on DECEITS AND FALSE PRETENSE and very negative long
        term effects on international religious conflicts. I'm not against
        preemption itself - especially if the government actually means to
        protect the American people.

        Check out the Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882 also. That's a pretty bad one.

        Ram


        --- In prezveepsenator@yahoogroups.com, THOMAS JOHNSON <AVRCRDNG@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > I agree with Richard that we tend to rank recent
        > debacles with more weight than those that have faded
        > from memory a bit. What do you guys consider some of
        > the greatest presidential blunders, foreign policy or
        > otherwise?
        > Right now I would agree that Viet Nam is the
        > worst..others that come to mind are Bay of Pigs,
        > internment of the Japanese, Hooverville.
        > Any other opinions?
        >
        > Tom
        >
        >
        >
        > --- Richard Kelly <richwkelly@...> wrote:
        >
        > > I'm not really arguing with Thomas, but we live so
        > > much in
        > > the present tense we maybe forget other American big
        > > mistakes.
        > > The war in Vietnam, for example, caused over 58,000
        > > American
        > > casualties. (Thats according to the Wikipedia) Off
        > > hand, it
        > > would seem to have been a bigger mistake than Iraq.
        > >
        > > Its just like in your archives you had some poll in
        > > which a
        > > high percentage of people said George W Bush is "the
        > > worse
        > > President in history" (The choice was actually among
        > > 20th century presidents after FDR) Well, I can bet
        > > you if you
        > > had taken the poll during Nixon's term, a high
        > > percentage
        > > would have voted him the "worse President in
        > > history," same
        > > for several others. I suppose Ike enjoyed fairly OK
        > > approval
        > > ratings (if they had them back then) but I would
        > > guess LBJ,
        > > Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, all had many critics
        > > who would say
        > > at one time or the other, "this guy is the worse
        > > President ever!"
        > > Of course the same would go for Bill Clinton (I dont
        > > know if Bush
        > > 41 had that many people who truly hated him) So, our
        > > perceptions
        > > aren't always strictly speaking historical.
        > >
        > > Richard Kelly
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
      • richard kelly
        Ram: Have you considered the possibility that the extreme relgious types we re alluding to, the Middle Eastern types, hated us already? You know, 9/11 happened
        Message 3 of 7 , Jun 15, 2006
          Ram:

          Have you considered the possibility that the
          extreme relgious types we're alluding to, the
          Middle Eastern types, hated us already? You know,
          9/11 happened a long time before we invaded Iraq.
          They're going to hate us, anyway.


          Richard Kelly

          --- Ram Lau <ramlau@...> wrote:

          > Iraq is worse than Vietnam in terms of its bad
          > precedence of
          > preemption based on DECEITS AND FALSE PRETENSE and
          > very negative long
          > term effects on international religious conflicts.
          > I'm not against
          > preemption itself - especially if the government
          > actually means to
          > protect the American people.
          >
          > Check out the Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882 also.
          > That's a pretty bad one.
          >
          > Ram
          >
          >
          > --- In prezveepsenator@yahoogroups.com, THOMAS
          > JOHNSON <AVRCRDNG@...>
          > wrote:
          > >
          > > I agree with Richard that we tend to rank recent
          > > debacles with more weight than those that have
          > faded
          > > from memory a bit. What do you guys consider some
          > of
          > > the greatest presidential blunders, foreign policy
          > or
          > > otherwise?
          > > Right now I would agree that Viet Nam is the
          > > worst..others that come to mind are Bay of Pigs,
          > > internment of the Japanese, Hooverville.
          > > Any other opinions?
          > >
          > > Tom
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > --- Richard Kelly <richwkelly@...> wrote:
          > >
          > > > I'm not really arguing with Thomas, but we live
          > so
          > > > much in
          > > > the present tense we maybe forget other American
          > big
          > > > mistakes.
          > > > The war in Vietnam, for example, caused over
          > 58,000
          > > > American
          > > > casualties. (Thats according to the Wikipedia)
          > Off
          > > > hand, it
          > > > would seem to have been a bigger mistake than
          > Iraq.
          > > >
          > > > Its just like in your archives you had some poll
          > in
          > > > which a
          > > > high percentage of people said George W Bush is
          > "the
          > > > worse
          > > > President in history" (The choice was actually
          > among
          > > > 20th century presidents after FDR) Well, I can
          > bet
          > > > you if you
          > > > had taken the poll during Nixon's term, a high
          > > > percentage
          > > > would have voted him the "worse President in
          > > > history," same
          > > > for several others. I suppose Ike enjoyed fairly
          > OK
          > > > approval
          > > > ratings (if they had them back then) but I would
          > > > guess LBJ,
          > > > Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, all had many
          > critics
          > > > who would say
          > > > at one time or the other, "this guy is the worse
          > > > President ever!"
          > > > Of course the same would go for Bill Clinton (I
          > dont
          > > > know if Bush
          > > > 41 had that many people who truly hated him) So,
          > our
          > > > perceptions
          > > > aren't always strictly speaking historical.
          > > >
          > > > Richard Kelly
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >


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        • Ram Lau
          ... The problem here is that the Iraq war not only made them hate us more but also created new haters. The Iraq war has made the religious moderates more
          Message 4 of 7 , Jun 15, 2006
            > 9/11 happened a long time before we invaded Iraq.
            > They're going to hate us, anyway.

            The problem here is that the Iraq war not only made them hate us more
            but also created new haters. The Iraq war has made the religious
            moderates more sympathetic to the cause of the radicals. Do you see my
            point?

            Dr. King once said: "Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light
            can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that."

            Ram
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