Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

America's biggest mistake

Expand Messages
  • Richard Kelly
    I m not really arguing with Thomas, but we live so much in the present tense we maybe forget other American big mistakes. The war in Vietnam, for example,
    Message 1 of 7 , Jun 14, 2006
    • 0 Attachment
      I'm not really arguing with Thomas, but we live so much in
      the present tense we maybe forget other American big mistakes.
      The war in Vietnam, for example, caused over 58,000 American
      casualties. (Thats according to the Wikipedia) Off hand, it
      would seem to have been a bigger mistake than Iraq.

      Its just like in your archives you had some poll in which a
      high percentage of people said George W Bush is "the worse
      President in history" (The choice was actually among
      20th century presidents after FDR) Well, I can bet you if you
      had taken the poll during Nixon's term, a high percentage
      would have voted him the "worse President in history," same
      for several others. I suppose Ike enjoyed fairly OK approval
      ratings (if they had them back then) but I would guess LBJ,
      Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, all had many critics who would say
      at one time or the other, "this guy is the worse President ever!"
      Of course the same would go for Bill Clinton (I dont know if Bush
      41 had that many people who truly hated him) So, our perceptions
      aren't always strictly speaking historical.

      Richard Kelly
    • Ram Lau
      ... Moderates and the assassinated tend to be less hated. Truman and Taft and Ike first come to mind in the first category, and McKinley and Kennedy the
      Message 2 of 7 , Jun 14, 2006
      • 0 Attachment
        > Of course the same would go for Bill Clinton (I dont know if Bush
        > 41 had that many people who truly hated him) So, our perceptions
        > aren't always strictly speaking historical.

        Moderates and the assassinated tend to be less hated. Truman and Taft
        and Ike first come to mind in the first category, and McKinley and
        Kennedy the second. For the record, Warren Harding was NOT assassinated.

        Ram
      • THOMAS JOHNSON
        I take your point, Richard,and I knew that Viet Nam cost the US a lot more in lives than Iraq, so far anyway.. we don t really know if Iraq will surpass Viet
        Message 3 of 7 , Jun 14, 2006
        • 0 Attachment
          I take your point, Richard,and I knew that Viet Nam
          cost the US a lot more in lives than Iraq, so far
          anyway.. we don't really know if Iraq will surpass
          Viet Nam as the biggest foreign policy error (
          remember I said that it "could' turn out to be the
          worst), but the potential is there with instances such
          as Abu Girab and Haditha which could spawn many
          generations terrorists, and these people know how to
          hold a grudge for centuries. Even if Viet Nam was
          worse, it took four presidents to screw things up
          there. Being the father of the 2nd worst mistake is
          not exactly a badge of honor, either.

          Tom



          --- Ram Lau <ramlau@...> wrote:

          > > Of course the same would go for Bill Clinton (I
          > dont know if Bush
          > > 41 had that many people who truly hated him) So,
          > our perceptions
          > > aren't always strictly speaking historical.
          >
          > Moderates and the assassinated tend to be less
          > hated. Truman and Taft
          > and Ike first come to mind in the first category,
          > and McKinley and
          > Kennedy the second. For the record, Warren Harding
          > was NOT assassinated.
          >
          > Ram
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • THOMAS JOHNSON
          I agree with Richard that we tend to rank recent debacles with more weight than those that have faded from memory a bit. What do you guys consider some of the
          Message 4 of 7 , Jun 15, 2006
          • 0 Attachment
            I agree with Richard that we tend to rank recent
            debacles with more weight than those that have faded
            from memory a bit. What do you guys consider some of
            the greatest presidential blunders, foreign policy or
            otherwise?
            Right now I would agree that Viet Nam is the
            worst..others that come to mind are Bay of Pigs,
            internment of the Japanese, Hooverville.
            Any other opinions?

            Tom



            --- Richard Kelly <richwkelly@...> wrote:

            > I'm not really arguing with Thomas, but we live so
            > much in
            > the present tense we maybe forget other American big
            > mistakes.
            > The war in Vietnam, for example, caused over 58,000
            > American
            > casualties. (Thats according to the Wikipedia) Off
            > hand, it
            > would seem to have been a bigger mistake than Iraq.
            >
            > Its just like in your archives you had some poll in
            > which a
            > high percentage of people said George W Bush is "the
            > worse
            > President in history" (The choice was actually among
            > 20th century presidents after FDR) Well, I can bet
            > you if you
            > had taken the poll during Nixon's term, a high
            > percentage
            > would have voted him the "worse President in
            > history," same
            > for several others. I suppose Ike enjoyed fairly OK
            > approval
            > ratings (if they had them back then) but I would
            > guess LBJ,
            > Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, all had many critics
            > who would say
            > at one time or the other, "this guy is the worse
            > President ever!"
            > Of course the same would go for Bill Clinton (I dont
            > know if Bush
            > 41 had that many people who truly hated him) So, our
            > perceptions
            > aren't always strictly speaking historical.
            >
            > Richard Kelly
            >
            >
            >
            >
          • Ram Lau
            Iraq is worse than Vietnam in terms of its bad precedence of preemption based on DECEITS AND FALSE PRETENSE and very negative long term effects on
            Message 5 of 7 , Jun 15, 2006
            • 0 Attachment
              Iraq is worse than Vietnam in terms of its bad precedence of
              preemption based on DECEITS AND FALSE PRETENSE and very negative long
              term effects on international religious conflicts. I'm not against
              preemption itself - especially if the government actually means to
              protect the American people.

              Check out the Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882 also. That's a pretty bad one.

              Ram


              --- In prezveepsenator@yahoogroups.com, THOMAS JOHNSON <AVRCRDNG@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > I agree with Richard that we tend to rank recent
              > debacles with more weight than those that have faded
              > from memory a bit. What do you guys consider some of
              > the greatest presidential blunders, foreign policy or
              > otherwise?
              > Right now I would agree that Viet Nam is the
              > worst..others that come to mind are Bay of Pigs,
              > internment of the Japanese, Hooverville.
              > Any other opinions?
              >
              > Tom
              >
              >
              >
              > --- Richard Kelly <richwkelly@...> wrote:
              >
              > > I'm not really arguing with Thomas, but we live so
              > > much in
              > > the present tense we maybe forget other American big
              > > mistakes.
              > > The war in Vietnam, for example, caused over 58,000
              > > American
              > > casualties. (Thats according to the Wikipedia) Off
              > > hand, it
              > > would seem to have been a bigger mistake than Iraq.
              > >
              > > Its just like in your archives you had some poll in
              > > which a
              > > high percentage of people said George W Bush is "the
              > > worse
              > > President in history" (The choice was actually among
              > > 20th century presidents after FDR) Well, I can bet
              > > you if you
              > > had taken the poll during Nixon's term, a high
              > > percentage
              > > would have voted him the "worse President in
              > > history," same
              > > for several others. I suppose Ike enjoyed fairly OK
              > > approval
              > > ratings (if they had them back then) but I would
              > > guess LBJ,
              > > Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, all had many critics
              > > who would say
              > > at one time or the other, "this guy is the worse
              > > President ever!"
              > > Of course the same would go for Bill Clinton (I dont
              > > know if Bush
              > > 41 had that many people who truly hated him) So, our
              > > perceptions
              > > aren't always strictly speaking historical.
              > >
              > > Richard Kelly
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
            • richard kelly
              Ram: Have you considered the possibility that the extreme relgious types we re alluding to, the Middle Eastern types, hated us already? You know, 9/11 happened
              Message 6 of 7 , Jun 15, 2006
              • 0 Attachment
                Ram:

                Have you considered the possibility that the
                extreme relgious types we're alluding to, the
                Middle Eastern types, hated us already? You know,
                9/11 happened a long time before we invaded Iraq.
                They're going to hate us, anyway.


                Richard Kelly

                --- Ram Lau <ramlau@...> wrote:

                > Iraq is worse than Vietnam in terms of its bad
                > precedence of
                > preemption based on DECEITS AND FALSE PRETENSE and
                > very negative long
                > term effects on international religious conflicts.
                > I'm not against
                > preemption itself - especially if the government
                > actually means to
                > protect the American people.
                >
                > Check out the Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882 also.
                > That's a pretty bad one.
                >
                > Ram
                >
                >
                > --- In prezveepsenator@yahoogroups.com, THOMAS
                > JOHNSON <AVRCRDNG@...>
                > wrote:
                > >
                > > I agree with Richard that we tend to rank recent
                > > debacles with more weight than those that have
                > faded
                > > from memory a bit. What do you guys consider some
                > of
                > > the greatest presidential blunders, foreign policy
                > or
                > > otherwise?
                > > Right now I would agree that Viet Nam is the
                > > worst..others that come to mind are Bay of Pigs,
                > > internment of the Japanese, Hooverville.
                > > Any other opinions?
                > >
                > > Tom
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > --- Richard Kelly <richwkelly@...> wrote:
                > >
                > > > I'm not really arguing with Thomas, but we live
                > so
                > > > much in
                > > > the present tense we maybe forget other American
                > big
                > > > mistakes.
                > > > The war in Vietnam, for example, caused over
                > 58,000
                > > > American
                > > > casualties. (Thats according to the Wikipedia)
                > Off
                > > > hand, it
                > > > would seem to have been a bigger mistake than
                > Iraq.
                > > >
                > > > Its just like in your archives you had some poll
                > in
                > > > which a
                > > > high percentage of people said George W Bush is
                > "the
                > > > worse
                > > > President in history" (The choice was actually
                > among
                > > > 20th century presidents after FDR) Well, I can
                > bet
                > > > you if you
                > > > had taken the poll during Nixon's term, a high
                > > > percentage
                > > > would have voted him the "worse President in
                > > > history," same
                > > > for several others. I suppose Ike enjoyed fairly
                > OK
                > > > approval
                > > > ratings (if they had them back then) but I would
                > > > guess LBJ,
                > > > Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, all had many
                > critics
                > > > who would say
                > > > at one time or the other, "this guy is the worse
                > > > President ever!"
                > > > Of course the same would go for Bill Clinton (I
                > dont
                > > > know if Bush
                > > > 41 had that many people who truly hated him) So,
                > our
                > > > perceptions
                > > > aren't always strictly speaking historical.
                > > >
                > > > Richard Kelly
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >


                __________________________________________________
                Do You Yahoo!?
                Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                http://mail.yahoo.com
              • Ram Lau
                ... The problem here is that the Iraq war not only made them hate us more but also created new haters. The Iraq war has made the religious moderates more
                Message 7 of 7 , Jun 15, 2006
                • 0 Attachment
                  > 9/11 happened a long time before we invaded Iraq.
                  > They're going to hate us, anyway.

                  The problem here is that the Iraq war not only made them hate us more
                  but also created new haters. The Iraq war has made the religious
                  moderates more sympathetic to the cause of the radicals. Do you see my
                  point?

                  Dr. King once said: "Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light
                  can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that."

                  Ram
                Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.