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Re: Welcome discussions

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  • Ram Lau
    For some reason this post was delayed for more than a day before it appeared on the message list. I sent this out yesterday morning and I thought it was the
    Message 1 of 4 , Jun 13, 2006
      For some reason this post was delayed for more than a day before it
      appeared on the message list. I sent this out yesterday morning and I
      thought it was the internet connection problem. Censorship perhaps?


      --- In prezveepsenator@yahoogroups.com, "Ram Lau" <ramlau@...> wrote:
      > > between Sadaam and 9/11, don't watch Fox News, etc., but it
      > > would be a shame for truth to get in the way of propaganda.
      > > Many people thought Sadamm had weapons of mass destruction.
      > http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/05/20050524-3.html
      > "I'll probably say it three more times. See, in my line of work you
      > got to keep repeating things over and over and over again for the
      > truth to sink in, to kind of catapult the propaganda. (Applause.)"
      > So it's no surprise that the "liberal" New York Times had to report
      > with a by-line that the "liberal" reality that "Bush and Cheney Talk
      > Strongly of Qaeda Links With Hussein" back in 2004. Was the propaganda
      > catapulting a success? You bet. This is what the non-partisan Program
      > on International Policy Attitudes found after election 2004:
      > "A large majority of President Bush's supporters continued to believe
      > that Iraq either had weapons of mass destruction (47 percent) or a
      > major program to develop them (25 percent), contrary to official
      > findings. And three out of four Bush backers believed Saddam Hussein
      > provided substantial support to al Qaeda or was involved in the Sept.
      > 11 attacks, while 56 percent said the Sept. 11 commission found such
      > ties. In reality, the commission found 'no collaborative relationship'
      > between Iraq and al Qaeda. The survey showed supporters of Bush and
      > Sen. John Kerry had stark differences and saw "separate realities."
      > Ram
      > http://www.nytimes.com/2004/06/18/politics/18DEBA.html
      > Bush and Cheney Talk Strongly of Qaeda Links With Hussein
      > President Bush and Vice President Cheney said yesterday that they
      > remain convinced that Saddam Hussein's government had a long history
      > of ties to Al Qaeda, a day after the commission investigating the
      > Sept. 11 attacks reported that its review of classified intelligence
      > found no evidence of a "collaborative relationship" that linked Iraq
      > to the terrorist organization.
      > Mr. Bush, responding to a reporter's question about the report after a
      > White House cabinet meeting yesterday morning, said: "The reason I
      > keep insisting that there was a relationship between Iraq and Saddam
      > and Al Qaeda" is "because there was a relationship between Iraq and Al
      > Qaeda."
      > He said: "This administration never said that the 9/11 attacks were
      > orchestrated between Saddam and Al Qaeda. We did say there were
      > numerous contacts between Saddam Hussein and Al Qaeda. For example,
      > Iraqi intelligence officers met with bin Laden, the head of Al Qaeda,
      > in the Sudan. There's numerous contacts between the two."
      > He repeated that Mr. Hussein was "a threat" and "a sworn enemy to the
      > United States of America."
      > Last night Mr. Cheney, who was the administration's most forceful
      > advocate of the Qaeda-Hussein links, was more pointed, repeating in
      > detail his case for those ties and saying that The New York Times's
      > coverage yesterday of the commission's findings "was outrageous."
      > "They do a lot of outrageous things," Mr. Cheney, appearing on
      > "Capital Report" on CNBC, said of the Times, referring specifically to
      > a four-column front page headline that read "Panel Finds No Qaeda-Iraq
      > Tie." Mr. Cheney added: "The press wants to run out and say there's a
      > fundamental split here now between what the president said and what
      > the commission said."
      > He said that newspapers, including the Times, had confused the
      > question of whether there was evidence of Iraqi participation in Sept.
      > 11 with the issue of whether a relationship existed between Al Qaeda
      > and Mr. Hussein's regime.
      > Speaking of the commission, he said, "They did not address the broader
      > question of a relationship between Iraq and Al Qaeda in other areas,
      > in other ways." He said "the evidence is overwhelming." He described
      > the ties and cited numerous links back to the 1990's, including
      > contacts between Osama bin Laden and Iraqi intelligence officials.
      > Senator John Kerry, the presumptive Democratic nominee for president,
      > also jumped into the debate yesterday, saying: "It is clear that
      > President Bush owes the American people a fundamental explanation
      > about why he rushed to war for a purpose that it now turns out is not
      > supported by the facts. That is the finding of this commission. The
      > war against Al Qaeda is not the war in Iraq, when it began."
      > Staff Report 15, released by the commission Wednesday, detailed how a
      > senior Iraqi intelligence officer "reportedly made three visits to
      > Sudan" and met with Mr. bin Laden in 1994. At that meeting, the report
      > concluded, Mr. bin Laden sought permission to establish training camps
      > in Iraq and help in obtaining weapons, "but Iraq apparently never
      > responded."
      > "There have been reports that contacts between Iraq and Al Qaeda also
      > occurred after bin Laden had returned to Afghanistan, but they do not
      > appear to have resulted in a collaborative relationship," the report
      > continued. "Two senior bin Laden associates have adamantly denied that
      > any ties existed between Al Qaeda and Iraq. We have no credible
      > evidence that Iraq and Al Qaeda cooperated on attacks against the
      > United States."
      > Mr. Cheney expressed a slightly different view last night, saying, "We
      > have never been able to prove that there was a connection there on
      > 9/11." He went on to cite a Czech intelligence service report that
      > Mohammad Atta, one of the lead hijackers, met a senior Iraqi
      > intelligence official in April 2001. "That's never been proven," he
      > said. "It's never been refuted."
      > The commission report released on Wednesday concluded: "We do not
      > believe that such a meeting occurred," citing phone records and other
      > evidence that Mr. Atta had been in Florida at that time, not Prague.
      > Mr. Cheney returned to the subject of the Times's coverage later in
      > his appearance on CNBC when Ms. Borger began saying, "But the press is
      > making a distinction between 9/11 and . . ."
      > "No, they're not," Mr. Cheney said. "The New York Times does not. `The
      > Panel Finds No Qaeda-Iraq Ties,' " he said, quoting the headline.
      > "That's what it says. That's the vaunted New York Times. Numerous —
      > I've watched a lot of the coverage on it and the fact of the matter is
      > they don't make a distinction. They fuzz it up. Sometimes it's through
      > ignorance. Sometimes its malicious. But you'll take a statement that's
      > geared specifically to say there's no connection in relations to the
      > 9/11 attack and then say, `Well, obviously there's no case here.' And
      > then jump over to challenge the president's credibility or my
      > credibility."
      > Mr. Bush and Mr. Cheney were not alone in responding yesterday to the
      > commission's findings. Speaker J. Dennis Hastert, an Illinois
      > Republican, also charged that the media had distorted the findings of
      > the commission about links between Mr. bin Laden and Mr. Hussein. He
      > sad the report showed the two men were "developing a relationship."
      > "That relationship could have led to dire consequences for the United
      > States," Mr. Hastert said, adding that the two men "are cut from the
      > same cloth."
      > Both Mr. Bush and Mr. Kerry had expected to focus on the economy
      > yesterday, but the dispute over the 9/11 commission's report
      > overshadowed that effort.
      > Speaking to reporters in Detroit, Mr. Kerry said that it was Mr. Bush
      > and Mr. Cheney who were muddying distinctions. "The president and the
      > vice president on a number of occasions have asserted very directly to
      > the American people that the war against al Qaeda is the war in Iraq.
      > And on any number of occasions, the president has made it clear that
      > the front line of the war against al Qaeda is in Iraq."
      > He returned to the theme last night, talking to officials in the
      > Michigan A.F.L.-C.I.O. "Now we learn in the latest reports of the
      > commission that Al Qaeda had nothing to do with what was happening in
      > Iraq, and we're spending $200 billion of your tax money over there.
      > I'll tell you this, as commander in chief, based on my experience in
      > fighting a war, and what I know about what's happened in these last
      > years, I will always remember that the United States of America should
      > never go to war because it wants to, we should only go to war because
      > we have to."
      > The line, one Mr. Kerry has been using with increasing frequency in
      > campaign appearances, received loud applause. Steve Schmidt, spokesman
      > for the Bush campaign, said that Mr. Kerry was contradicting himself.
      > "John Kerry explicitly stated that Saddam Hussein was connected to
      > terrorism," Mr. Schmidt said. "He contradicted himself today. John
      > Kerry voted for war in Iraq, but less than a year later declared
      > himself an antiwar candidate." Mr. Schmidt said Mr. Kerry had a "track
      > record" of "exploiting the war on terror for political gain."
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