Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Al-Zarqawi story

Expand Messages
  • Richard Kelly
    I m a bit surprised you haven t posted a story on the fall of Al-Zarqawi, top Moslem terrorist in Iraq. Certainly a bigger story than some letter written by
    Message 1 of 14 , Jun 8 10:19 PM
    • 0 Attachment
      I'm a bit surprised you haven't posted a story on the fall
      of Al-Zarqawi, top Moslem terrorist in Iraq. Certainly a
      bigger story than some letter written by Arlen Spector.
      Combined with the capture of an Islamic terrorist ring in
      Canada, not a bad week.


      Richard Kelly
    • Gregory
      Actually Richard, it is not that big of a day. I have long held that the splinter groups in Iraq have found Al-Zarqawi at times more of a divisive fellow than
      Message 2 of 14 , Jun 8 10:36 PM
      • 0 Attachment
        Actually Richard, it is not that big of a day. I have long held that
        the splinter groups in Iraq have found Al-Zarqawi at times more of a
        divisive fellow than an unifying force. I have speculated all day
        with friends here that this might make the insurgent's s more
        committed and strong in the long run. Bush had a good day and will
        pick up in the polls I suspect for a week or two. But just barely.
        Once the people see the war dead continue to be brought to our
        shores, and the blood running in the street just like it did the day
        before today, the Prez dips yet again.

        On a related note it was the estate tax defeat that spoke volumes
        today about the level of fear the GOP has, and the lack of
        legislative prowess in getting yet another tax cut rammed down the
        throat of the American public. Did you see how scared the
        Republicans were today? That to me was the story of the day as the
        underlying poll numbers for each elected official is telling them
        they can no longer conduct business in the same old fashioned way for
        the rich while screwing folks like me and (maybe) you.

        Gregory





        --- In prezveepsenator@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Kelly"
        <richwkelly@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        >
        > I'm a bit surprised you haven't posted a story on the fall
        > of Al-Zarqawi, top Moslem terrorist in Iraq. Certainly a
        > bigger story than some letter written by Arlen Spector.
        > Combined with the capture of an Islamic terrorist ring in
        > Canada, not a bad week.
        >
        >
        > Richard Kelly
        >
      • Ram Lau
        You mean Muslim? Moslem sounds like an unpatriotic french dessert. :^) First to answer you question I posted the article concerning Specter s letter because
        Message 3 of 14 , Jun 9 2:04 AM
        • 0 Attachment
          You mean Muslim? Moslem sounds like an unpatriotic french dessert. :^)

          First to answer you question I posted the article concerning Specter's
          letter because he's US Senator. This message group cares about the
          Senators if the name of the group isn't clear about that.

          Then here's what I think about the buxom/rotund "leader" of al-Qaeda.
          IMHO, this so-called "top Muslim terrorist" Al-Zarqawi would have been
          a nobody if it wasn't the Iraq war that we were misled into based on
          deceits. In other words, we made this Al-Zarqawi S.O.B. a hero (and
          now a martyr allegedly entitled to 72 virgins) because we chose to
          make Iraq a new terror breeding ground.

          It's only fair to take away from him the fame and power that we
          bestowed upon him inadvertently. So Chubby was (or will soon be)
          replaced. Big deal. Question is how many Al-Zarqawis do we have to
          kill in generations to come?

          Ram


          --- In prezveepsenator@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Kelly"
          <richwkelly@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          >
          > I'm a bit surprised you haven't posted a story on the fall
          > of Al-Zarqawi, top Moslem terrorist in Iraq. Certainly a
          > bigger story than some letter written by Arlen Spector.
          > Combined with the capture of an Islamic terrorist ring in
          > Canada, not a bad week.
          >
          >
          > Richard Kelly
          >
        • Ram Lau
          ... Precisely what I thought when the news first came out on TV at 4AM. Didn t we just make the madmen madder by killing one of their many leaders? If nuking
          Message 4 of 14 , Jun 9 2:14 AM
          • 0 Attachment
            > divisive fellow than an unifying force. I have speculated all day
            > with friends here that this might make the insurgent's s more
            > committed and strong in the long run. Bush had a good day and will

            Precisely what I thought when the news first came out on TV at 4AM.
            Didn't we just make the madmen "madder" by killing one of their many
            leaders?

            If nuking the entire middle east and wipe them all out is not an
            option, perhaps we should come up with something wiser than making the
            angry mob angrier?

            Ram
          • richard kelly
            Ram: So, he was somehow tricked into becoming a mass murderer and war criminal? R.K. ... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?
            Message 5 of 14 , Jun 9 8:31 AM
            • 0 Attachment
              Ram:

              So, he was somehow tricked into becoming a mass
              murderer and war criminal?

              R.K.

              --- Ram Lau <ramlau@...> wrote:

              > You mean Muslim? Moslem sounds like an unpatriotic
              > french dessert. :^)
              >
              > First to answer you question I posted the article
              > concerning Specter's
              > letter because he's US Senator. This message group
              > cares about the
              > Senators if the name of the group isn't clear about
              > that.
              >
              > Then here's what I think about the buxom/rotund
              > "leader" of al-Qaeda.
              > IMHO, this so-called "top Muslim terrorist"
              > Al-Zarqawi would have been
              > a nobody if it wasn't the Iraq war that we were
              > misled into based on
              > deceits. In other words, we made this Al-Zarqawi
              > S.O.B. a hero (and
              > now a martyr allegedly entitled to 72 virgins)
              > because we chose to
              > make Iraq a new terror breeding ground.
              >
              > It's only fair to take away from him the fame and
              > power that we
              > bestowed upon him inadvertently. So Chubby was (or
              > will soon be)
              > replaced. Big deal. Question is how many Al-Zarqawis
              > do we have to
              > kill in generations to come?
              >
              > Ram
              >
              >
              > --- In prezveepsenator@yahoogroups.com, "Richard
              > Kelly"
              > <richwkelly@...> wrote:
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > I'm a bit surprised you haven't posted a story on
              > the fall
              > > of Al-Zarqawi, top Moslem terrorist in Iraq.
              > Certainly a
              > > bigger story than some letter written by Arlen
              > Spector.
              > > Combined with the capture of an Islamic terrorist
              > ring in
              > > Canada, not a bad week.
              > >
              > >
              > > Richard Kelly
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >


              __________________________________________________
              Do You Yahoo!?
              Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
              http://mail.yahoo.com
            • richard kelly
              Gregory: If it weakens the insurgency and reduces the number of civilians being slaughtered, and maybe helps strengthen the government of Iraq, wouldn t that
              Message 6 of 14 , Jun 9 8:36 AM
              • 0 Attachment
                Gregory:

                If it weakens the insurgency and reduces the number
                of civilians being slaughtered, and maybe helps
                strengthen the government of Iraq, wouldn't that
                be worthwhile, or do you want to insurgency to
                succeed?


                Richard Kelly

                --- Gregory <greggolopry@...> wrote:

                > Actually Richard, it is not that big of a day. I
                > have long held that
                > the splinter groups in Iraq have found Al-Zarqawi at
                > times more of a
                > divisive fellow than an unifying force. I have
                > speculated all day
                > with friends here that this might make the
                > insurgent's s more
                > committed and strong in the long run. Bush had a
                > good day and will
                > pick up in the polls I suspect for a week or two.
                > But just barely.
                > Once the people see the war dead continue to be
                > brought to our
                > shores, and the blood running in the street just
                > like it did the day
                > before today, the Prez dips yet again.
                >
                > On a related note it was the estate tax defeat that
                > spoke volumes
                > today about the level of fear the GOP has, and the
                > lack of
                > legislative prowess in getting yet another tax cut
                > rammed down the
                > throat of the American public. Did you see how
                > scared the
                > Republicans were today? That to me was the story of
                > the day as the
                > underlying poll numbers for each elected official is
                > telling them
                > they can no longer conduct business in the same old
                > fashioned way for
                > the rich while screwing folks like me and (maybe)
                > you.
                >
                > Gregory
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > --- In prezveepsenator@yahoogroups.com, "Richard
                > Kelly"
                > <richwkelly@...> wrote:
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > I'm a bit surprised you haven't posted a story on
                > the fall
                > > of Al-Zarqawi, top Moslem terrorist in Iraq.
                > Certainly a
                > > bigger story than some letter written by Arlen
                > Spector.
                > > Combined with the capture of an Islamic terrorist
                > ring in
                > > Canada, not a bad week.
                > >
                > >
                > > Richard Kelly
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >


                __________________________________________________
                Do You Yahoo!?
                Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                http://mail.yahoo.com
              • Gregory
                Let us recall what ramped up the terrorist network in Iraq. It was the power vacuum that existed after the fall of the Iraqi government along with the anger
                Message 7 of 14 , Jun 9 8:55 AM
                • 0 Attachment
                  Let us recall what ramped up the terrorist network in Iraq. It was
                  the power vacuum that existed after the fall of the Iraqi government
                  along with the anger at a foreign country invading a Middle Eastern
                  nation. It is as if no on inside the Oval Office had ever read a
                  single history book about such an adventure in that region of world.
                  The Muslim world has a rich and proud history and an invasion of this
                  type was doomed from the start. The sad part is there were many
                  voices around the world that understood and tried to warn others.
                  But those voice were muted by the louder and more powerful neo-con
                  ones that dominated the public arena. The deception that brought us
                  to this state of affairs has to be borne now by all of us, but a
                  special burden must be thrust on the shoulders of those who created
                  this mess.

                  So yes, the violent leaders of the insurgency in Iraq are very much a
                  creation of American foreign policy. The same is true in Iran and
                  the mess we created in that country from the days after WW2.


                  Gregory




                  --- In prezveepsenator@yahoogroups.com, richard kelly
                  <richwkelly@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Ram:
                  >
                  > So, he was somehow tricked into becoming a mass
                  > murderer and war criminal?
                  >
                  > R.K.
                  >
                  > --- Ram Lau <ramlau@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > > You mean Muslim? Moslem sounds like an unpatriotic
                  > > french dessert. :^)
                  > >
                  > > First to answer you question I posted the article
                  > > concerning Specter's
                  > > letter because he's US Senator. This message group
                  > > cares about the
                  > > Senators if the name of the group isn't clear about
                  > > that.
                  > >
                  > > Then here's what I think about the buxom/rotund
                  > > "leader" of al-Qaeda.
                  > > IMHO, this so-called "top Muslim terrorist"
                  > > Al-Zarqawi would have been
                  > > a nobody if it wasn't the Iraq war that we were
                  > > misled into based on
                  > > deceits. In other words, we made this Al-Zarqawi
                  > > S.O.B. a hero (and
                  > > now a martyr allegedly entitled to 72 virgins)
                  > > because we chose to
                  > > make Iraq a new terror breeding ground.
                  > >
                  > > It's only fair to take away from him the fame and
                  > > power that we
                  > > bestowed upon him inadvertently. So Chubby was (or
                  > > will soon be)
                  > > replaced. Big deal. Question is how many Al-Zarqawis
                  > > do we have to
                  > > kill in generations to come?
                  > >
                  > > Ram
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > --- In prezveepsenator@yahoogroups.com, "Richard
                  > > Kelly"
                  > > <richwkelly@> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > I'm a bit surprised you haven't posted a story on
                  > > the fall
                  > > > of Al-Zarqawi, top Moslem terrorist in Iraq.
                  > > Certainly a
                  > > > bigger story than some letter written by Arlen
                  > > Spector.
                  > > > Combined with the capture of an Islamic terrorist
                  > > ring in
                  > > > Canada, not a bad week.
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > Richard Kelly
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  > __________________________________________________
                  > Do You Yahoo!?
                  > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                  > http://mail.yahoo.com
                  >
                • THOMAS JOHNSON
                  Richard, He was probably ratted out by the Iraqi insurgents, many of whom considered him a showboater and an outsider. It s good that he was killed.. he
                  Message 8 of 14 , Jun 9 9:06 AM
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Richard,
                    He was probably ratted out by the Iraqi insurgents,
                    many of whom considered him a showboater and an
                    outsider. It's good that he was killed.. he deserved
                    everything he got and then some, but, as Bush and
                    Rumsfelt admitted yesterday, it won't stop the
                    violence. It's a civil war and the Iraqis don't want
                    other elements involved.

                    Tom



                    --- richard kelly <richwkelly@...> wrote:

                    > Gregory:
                    >
                    > If it weakens the insurgency and reduces the number
                    > of civilians being slaughtered, and maybe helps
                    > strengthen the government of Iraq, wouldn't that
                    > be worthwhile, or do you want to insurgency to
                    > succeed?
                    >
                    >
                    > Richard Kelly
                    >
                    > --- Gregory <greggolopry@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > > Actually Richard, it is not that big of a day. I
                    > > have long held that
                    > > the splinter groups in Iraq have found Al-Zarqawi
                    > at
                    > > times more of a
                    > > divisive fellow than an unifying force. I have
                    > > speculated all day
                    > > with friends here that this might make the
                    > > insurgent's s more
                    > > committed and strong in the long run. Bush had a
                    > > good day and will
                    > > pick up in the polls I suspect for a week or two.
                    > > But just barely.
                    > > Once the people see the war dead continue to be
                    > > brought to our
                    > > shores, and the blood running in the street just
                    > > like it did the day
                    > > before today, the Prez dips yet again.
                    > >
                    > > On a related note it was the estate tax defeat
                    > that
                    > > spoke volumes
                    > > today about the level of fear the GOP has, and the
                    > > lack of
                    > > legislative prowess in getting yet another tax cut
                    > > rammed down the
                    > > throat of the American public. Did you see how
                    > > scared the
                    > > Republicans were today? That to me was the story
                    > of
                    > > the day as the
                    > > underlying poll numbers for each elected official
                    > is
                    > > telling them
                    > > they can no longer conduct business in the same
                    > old
                    > > fashioned way for
                    > > the rich while screwing folks like me and (maybe)
                    > > you.
                    > >
                    > > Gregory
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > --- In prezveepsenator@yahoogroups.com, "Richard
                    > > Kelly"
                    > > <richwkelly@...> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > I'm a bit surprised you haven't posted a story
                    > on
                    > > the fall
                    > > > of Al-Zarqawi, top Moslem terrorist in Iraq.
                    > > Certainly a
                    > > > bigger story than some letter written by Arlen
                    > > Spector.
                    > > > Combined with the capture of an Islamic
                    > terrorist
                    > > ring in
                    > > > Canada, not a bad week.
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > Richard Kelly
                    > > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    > __________________________________________________
                    > Do You Yahoo!?
                    > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
                    > protection around
                    > http://mail.yahoo.com
                    >
                  • Gregory
                    Reading comprehension is a virtue. Where in heck did you come up with the nonsense you just spewed? Your wording is ripped from FAUX News and that is
                    Message 9 of 14 , Jun 9 9:12 AM
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Reading comprehension is a virtue. Where in heck did you come up
                      with the nonsense you just spewed? Your wording is ripped from FAUX
                      News and that is typical.

                      I do not think that the news from Iraq diminishes the insurgency or
                      the bloodshed to either the Iraqis or the Americans. The
                      complexities of this matter seem to evade your thinking. Perhaps you
                      might be better off reading about the `successful' invasions over the
                      centuries in the Middle East and then commenting. By knowing the
                      insurgency is strong and will continue does not mean I endorse it.
                      It just means I understand it.

                      I know that conservatives like to live in an alter universe but as
                      for me I tend to keep my feet firmly planted and view the world head-
                      on. I view the Middle East with warmness as I love it's rich history
                      and the evolution of ideas that were born there and now are worldwide
                      phenomenon's. I see your snappy little posts on various Yahoo groups
                      as anti-Muslim and anti-Middle Eastern. I find that very sad indeed.

                      Gregory






                      --- In prezveepsenator@yahoogroups.com, richard kelly
                      <richwkelly@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Gregory:
                      >
                      > If it weakens the insurgency and reduces the number
                      > of civilians being slaughtered, and maybe helps
                      > strengthen the government of Iraq, wouldn't that
                      > be worthwhile, or do you want to insurgency to
                      > succeed?
                      >
                      >
                      > Richard Kelly
                      >
                      > --- Gregory <greggolopry@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > > Actually Richard, it is not that big of a day. I
                      > > have long held that
                      > > the splinter groups in Iraq have found Al-Zarqawi at
                      > > times more of a
                      > > divisive fellow than an unifying force. I have
                      > > speculated all day
                      > > with friends here that this might make the
                      > > insurgent's s more
                      > > committed and strong in the long run. Bush had a
                      > > good day and will
                      > > pick up in the polls I suspect for a week or two.
                      > > But just barely.
                      > > Once the people see the war dead continue to be
                      > > brought to our
                      > > shores, and the blood running in the street just
                      > > like it did the day
                      > > before today, the Prez dips yet again.
                      > >
                      > > On a related note it was the estate tax defeat that
                      > > spoke volumes
                      > > today about the level of fear the GOP has, and the
                      > > lack of
                      > > legislative prowess in getting yet another tax cut
                      > > rammed down the
                      > > throat of the American public. Did you see how
                      > > scared the
                      > > Republicans were today? That to me was the story of
                      > > the day as the
                      > > underlying poll numbers for each elected official is
                      > > telling them
                      > > they can no longer conduct business in the same old
                      > > fashioned way for
                      > > the rich while screwing folks like me and (maybe)
                      > > you.
                      > >
                      > > Gregory
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > --- In prezveepsenator@yahoogroups.com, "Richard
                      > > Kelly"
                      > > <richwkelly@> wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > I'm a bit surprised you haven't posted a story on
                      > > the fall
                      > > > of Al-Zarqawi, top Moslem terrorist in Iraq.
                      > > Certainly a
                      > > > bigger story than some letter written by Arlen
                      > > Spector.
                      > > > Combined with the capture of an Islamic terrorist
                      > > ring in
                      > > > Canada, not a bad week.
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > Richard Kelly
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      > __________________________________________________
                      > Do You Yahoo!?
                      > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                      > http://mail.yahoo.com
                      >
                    • richard kelly
                      Gregory: Actually I got that from an interview last night on the Charlie Rose show, I dont have cable or watch Fox. As long as this insurgency goes on, our
                      Message 10 of 14 , Jun 9 9:36 AM
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Gregory:

                        Actually I got that from an interview last night
                        on the Charlie Rose show, I dont have cable or
                        watch Fox.

                        As long as this insurgency goes on, our troops
                        will stay in Iraq, so of course our goal ought to
                        be to see the Iraqi government succeed.

                        As far as worrying about making the Arabs angry,
                        you do understand this is a war. No doubt D-Day
                        made Hitler angry, so I guess we shouldn't have
                        done it? As I understand it, and of course my reading
                        comprehension is suspect, the goal in a war is to
                        defeat your enemy, not to worry about his feelings.

                        Cheers,

                        Richard Kelly



                        --- Gregory <greggolopry@...> wrote:

                        > Reading comprehension is a virtue. Where in heck
                        > did you come up
                        > with the nonsense you just spewed? Your wording is
                        > ripped from FAUX
                        > News and that is typical.
                        >
                        > I do not think that the news from Iraq diminishes
                        > the insurgency or
                        > the bloodshed to either the Iraqis or the Americans.
                        > The
                        > complexities of this matter seem to evade your
                        > thinking. Perhaps you
                        > might be better off reading about the `successful'
                        > invasions over the
                        > centuries in the Middle East and then commenting.
                        > By knowing the
                        > insurgency is strong and will continue does not mean
                        > I endorse it.
                        > It just means I understand it.
                        >
                        > I know that conservatives like to live in an alter
                        > universe but as
                        > for me I tend to keep my feet firmly planted and
                        > view the world head-
                        > on. I view the Middle East with warmness as I love
                        > it's rich history
                        > and the evolution of ideas that were born there and
                        > now are worldwide
                        > phenomenon's. I see your snappy little posts on
                        > various Yahoo groups
                        > as anti-Muslim and anti-Middle Eastern. I find that
                        > very sad indeed.
                        >
                        > Gregory
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In prezveepsenator@yahoogroups.com, richard
                        > kelly
                        > <richwkelly@...> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Gregory:
                        > >
                        > > If it weakens the insurgency and reduces the
                        > number
                        > > of civilians being slaughtered, and maybe helps
                        > > strengthen the government of Iraq, wouldn't that
                        > > be worthwhile, or do you want to insurgency to
                        > > succeed?
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Richard Kelly
                        > >
                        > > --- Gregory <greggolopry@...> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > > Actually Richard, it is not that big of a day.
                        > I
                        > > > have long held that
                        > > > the splinter groups in Iraq have found
                        > Al-Zarqawi at
                        > > > times more of a
                        > > > divisive fellow than an unifying force. I have
                        > > > speculated all day
                        > > > with friends here that this might make the
                        > > > insurgent's s more
                        > > > committed and strong in the long run. Bush had
                        > a
                        > > > good day and will
                        > > > pick up in the polls I suspect for a week or
                        > two.
                        > > > But just barely.
                        > > > Once the people see the war dead continue to be
                        > > > brought to our
                        > > > shores, and the blood running in the street just
                        > > > like it did the day
                        > > > before today, the Prez dips yet again.
                        > > >
                        > > > On a related note it was the estate tax defeat
                        > that
                        > > > spoke volumes
                        > > > today about the level of fear the GOP has, and
                        > the
                        > > > lack of
                        > > > legislative prowess in getting yet another tax
                        > cut
                        > > > rammed down the
                        > > > throat of the American public. Did you see how
                        > > > scared the
                        > > > Republicans were today? That to me was the
                        > story of
                        > > > the day as the
                        > > > underlying poll numbers for each elected
                        > official is
                        > > > telling them
                        > > > they can no longer conduct business in the same
                        > old
                        > > > fashioned way for
                        > > > the rich while screwing folks like me and
                        > (maybe)
                        > > > you.
                        > > >
                        > > > Gregory
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > --- In prezveepsenator@yahoogroups.com, "Richard
                        > > > Kelly"
                        > > > <richwkelly@> wrote:
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > > I'm a bit surprised you haven't posted a story
                        > on
                        > > > the fall
                        > > > > of Al-Zarqawi, top Moslem terrorist in Iraq.
                        > > > Certainly a
                        > > > > bigger story than some letter written by Arlen
                        > > > Spector.
                        > > > > Combined with the capture of an Islamic
                        > terrorist
                        > > > ring in
                        > > > > Canada, not a bad week.
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Richard Kelly
                        > > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > __________________________________________________
                        > > Do You Yahoo!?
                        > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
                        > protection around
                        > > http://mail.yahoo.com
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >


                        __________________________________________________
                        Do You Yahoo!?
                        Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                        http://mail.yahoo.com
                      • Gregory
                        I really will not let you somehow infer that my statements about the insurgency are in any way related to my desire for the Iraqi government to succeed. Nor
                        Message 11 of 14 , Jun 9 12:18 PM
                        • 0 Attachment
                          I really will not let you somehow infer that my statements about the
                          insurgency are in any way related to my desire for the Iraqi
                          government to succeed. Nor will I allow you to somehow link my
                          opposition to the war to somehow thinking I do want this whole mess
                          to end in a fashion that is BEST FOR THE IRAQIS. Furthermore, I am
                          quite sure Charlie Rose did not state, or infer, that anyone who
                          views the insurgency the way I did, or opposed the war as I did,
                          wishes for the Iraqi government to fail.

                          You seem to be under the illusion that Iraq was our enemy after 9/11
                          and of course that is just another neo-con diversion from the truth.
                          Or as my father, a World War II vet would say, that is just "a damn
                          lie." The Iraq government was contained and isolated. The real
                          enemies on 9/11 were allowed to escape because Bush and Rummy did not
                          want to put the resources into the mountains of Afghanistan to root
                          out the real terrorists. The tribes were authorized to work in our
                          place and the result is that we are mired down in Iraq in a war we
                          cannot and will not win, and Osma Bin Laden is still free. (The Bush
                          White House calls this protecting America, BTW.) This type of
                          adventure that Bush has taken us on are always fraught with perils as
                          history shows and the anger in the Arab world over this one is
                          totally justified. You might be the only person left in America that
                          just doesn't get it. They have every reason to be very angry and I
                          understand why. If a foreign army overran our country you might
                          build a roadside bomb too. Though being liberated from the GOP in
                          Washington sounds mighty good some days.

                          I trust you are not under the illusion that we are going to succeed
                          in forcing our type of government to operate in Iraq. It just isn't
                          going to happen. They will shape the type of government that meets
                          their culture and needs and we should adjust. At some point we will
                          have to put a good face on it and wrap the deadly mission up. I still
                          do not know how you tell a parent who lost a son or daughter in this
                          war what they died for, but that is on the shoulders of the neo-cons
                          and Bush who brought us to this point in our national hisotry.

                          Finally, the manner in which the U.S. neglected the nationalistic
                          aspirations of Arabs after the fall of the Ottoman Empire and the end
                          of WWII, the whole mess over the creation of Israel, the way we
                          mishandled Iran's Mossadeq (spelling?) which preceded the Shah in the
                          1950's…the ridiculous policies we forced on the Middle East in our
                          Cold war games….and the list could go on and on are all extremely
                          valid reasons why we have a problem in the Middle East.

                          See, the problem isn't so much `them' as it is we as citizens who
                          allow this to happen in our name.


                          Gregory







                          --- In prezveepsenator@yahoogroups.com, richard kelly
                          <richwkelly@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Gregory:
                          >
                          > Actually I got that from an interview last night
                          > on the Charlie Rose show, I dont have cable or
                          > watch Fox.
                          >
                          > As long as this insurgency goes on, our troops
                          > will stay in Iraq, so of course our goal ought to
                          > be to see the Iraqi government succeed.
                          >
                          > As far as worrying about making the Arabs angry,
                          > you do understand this is a war. No doubt D-Day
                          > made Hitler angry, so I guess we shouldn't have
                          > done it? As I understand it, and of course my reading
                          > comprehension is suspect, the goal in a war is to
                          > defeat your enemy, not to worry about his feelings.
                          >
                          > Cheers,
                          >
                          > Richard Kelly
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > --- Gregory <greggolopry@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > > Reading comprehension is a virtue. Where in heck
                          > > did you come up
                          > > with the nonsense you just spewed? Your wording is
                          > > ripped from FAUX
                          > > News and that is typical.
                          > >
                          > > I do not think that the news from Iraq diminishes
                          > > the insurgency or
                          > > the bloodshed to either the Iraqis or the Americans.
                          > > The
                          > > complexities of this matter seem to evade your
                          > > thinking. Perhaps you
                          > > might be better off reading about the `successful'
                          > > invasions over the
                          > > centuries in the Middle East and then commenting.
                          > > By knowing the
                          > > insurgency is strong and will continue does not mean
                          > > I endorse it.
                          > > It just means I understand it.
                          > >
                          > > I know that conservatives like to live in an alter
                          > > universe but as
                          > > for me I tend to keep my feet firmly planted and
                          > > view the world head-
                          > > on. I view the Middle East with warmness as I love
                          > > it's rich history
                          > > and the evolution of ideas that were born there and
                          > > now are worldwide
                          > > phenomenon's. I see your snappy little posts on
                          > > various Yahoo groups
                          > > as anti-Muslim and anti-Middle Eastern. I find that
                          > > very sad indeed.
                          > >
                          > > Gregory
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > --- In prezveepsenator@yahoogroups.com, richard
                          > > kelly
                          > > <richwkelly@> wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > Gregory:
                          > > >
                          > > > If it weakens the insurgency and reduces the
                          > > number
                          > > > of civilians being slaughtered, and maybe helps
                          > > > strengthen the government of Iraq, wouldn't that
                          > > > be worthwhile, or do you want to insurgency to
                          > > > succeed?
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > Richard Kelly
                          > > >
                          > > > --- Gregory <greggolopry@> wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > > Actually Richard, it is not that big of a day.
                          > > I
                          > > > > have long held that
                          > > > > the splinter groups in Iraq have found
                          > > Al-Zarqawi at
                          > > > > times more of a
                          > > > > divisive fellow than an unifying force. I have
                          > > > > speculated all day
                          > > > > with friends here that this might make the
                          > > > > insurgent's s more
                          > > > > committed and strong in the long run. Bush had
                          > > a
                          > > > > good day and will
                          > > > > pick up in the polls I suspect for a week or
                          > > two.
                          > > > > But just barely.
                          > > > > Once the people see the war dead continue to be
                          > > > > brought to our
                          > > > > shores, and the blood running in the street just
                          > > > > like it did the day
                          > > > > before today, the Prez dips yet again.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > On a related note it was the estate tax defeat
                          > > that
                          > > > > spoke volumes
                          > > > > today about the level of fear the GOP has, and
                          > > the
                          > > > > lack of
                          > > > > legislative prowess in getting yet another tax
                          > > cut
                          > > > > rammed down the
                          > > > > throat of the American public. Did you see how
                          > > > > scared the
                          > > > > Republicans were today? That to me was the
                          > > story of
                          > > > > the day as the
                          > > > > underlying poll numbers for each elected
                          > > official is
                          > > > > telling them
                          > > > > they can no longer conduct business in the same
                          > > old
                          > > > > fashioned way for
                          > > > > the rich while screwing folks like me and
                          > > (maybe)
                          > > > > you.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Gregory
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > > --- In prezveepsenator@yahoogroups.com, "Richard
                          > > > > Kelly"
                          > > > > <richwkelly@> wrote:
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > I'm a bit surprised you haven't posted a story
                          > > on
                          > > > > the fall
                          > > > > > of Al-Zarqawi, top Moslem terrorist in Iraq.
                          > > > > Certainly a
                          > > > > > bigger story than some letter written by Arlen
                          > > > > Spector.
                          > > > > > Combined with the capture of an Islamic
                          > > terrorist
                          > > > > ring in
                          > > > > > Canada, not a bad week.
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > Richard Kelly
                          > > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > __________________________________________________
                          > > > Do You Yahoo!?
                          > > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
                          > > protection around
                          > > > http://mail.yahoo.com
                          > > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          > __________________________________________________
                          > Do You Yahoo!?
                          > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                          > http://mail.yahoo.com
                          >
                        • richard kelly
                          Gregory: You re trying to put words in my mouth and as usual making it all about you. All I did was brought up a topic. On Charlie Rose last night they
                          Message 12 of 14 , Jun 9 1:14 PM
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Gregory:

                            You're trying to put words in my mouth and as
                            usual making it all about you. All I did was
                            brought up a topic. On Charlie Rose last night
                            they interviewed a specialist who said among
                            other things, that the demise of Zarqawi might
                            aid the new government, it will probably slow
                            down the insurgency for a while, etc.

                            All these other matters you bring up are your
                            topics, not mine.


                            Richard Kelly



                            --- Gregory <greggolopry@...> wrote:

                            > I really will not let you somehow infer that my
                            > statements about the
                            > insurgency are in any way related to my desire for
                            > the Iraqi
                            > government to succeed. Nor will I allow you to
                            > somehow link my
                            > opposition to the war to somehow thinking I do want
                            > this whole mess
                            > to end in a fashion that is BEST FOR THE IRAQIS.
                            > Furthermore, I am
                            > quite sure Charlie Rose did not state, or infer,
                            > that anyone who
                            > views the insurgency the way I did, or opposed the
                            > war as I did,
                            > wishes for the Iraqi government to fail.
                            >
                            > You seem to be under the illusion that Iraq was our
                            > enemy after 9/11
                            > and of course that is just another neo-con diversion
                            > from the truth.
                            > Or as my father, a World War II vet would say, that
                            > is just "a damn
                            > lie." The Iraq government was contained and
                            > isolated. The real
                            > enemies on 9/11 were allowed to escape because Bush
                            > and Rummy did not
                            > want to put the resources into the mountains of
                            > Afghanistan to root
                            > out the real terrorists. The tribes were authorized
                            > to work in our
                            > place and the result is that we are mired down in
                            > Iraq in a war we
                            > cannot and will not win, and Osma Bin Laden is still
                            > free. (The Bush
                            > White House calls this protecting America, BTW.)
                            > This type of
                            > adventure that Bush has taken us on are always
                            > fraught with perils as
                            > history shows and the anger in the Arab world over
                            > this one is
                            > totally justified. You might be the only person left
                            > in America that
                            > just doesn't get it. They have every reason to be
                            > very angry and I
                            > understand why. If a foreign army overran our
                            > country you might
                            > build a roadside bomb too. Though being liberated
                            > from the GOP in
                            > Washington sounds mighty good some days.
                            >
                            > I trust you are not under the illusion that we are
                            > going to succeed
                            > in forcing our type of government to operate in
                            > Iraq. It just isn't
                            > going to happen. They will shape the type of
                            > government that meets
                            > their culture and needs and we should adjust. At
                            > some point we will
                            > have to put a good face on it and wrap the deadly
                            > mission up. I still
                            > do not know how you tell a parent who lost a son or
                            > daughter in this
                            > war what they died for, but that is on the shoulders
                            > of the neo-cons
                            > and Bush who brought us to this point in our
                            > national hisotry.
                            >
                            > Finally, the manner in which the U.S. neglected the
                            > nationalistic
                            > aspirations of Arabs after the fall of the Ottoman
                            > Empire and the end
                            > of WWII, the whole mess over the creation of Israel,
                            > the way we
                            > mishandled Iran's Mossadeq (spelling?) which
                            > preceded the Shah in the
                            > 1950's…the ridiculous policies we forced on the
                            > Middle East in our
                            > Cold war games….and the list could go on and on are
                            > all extremely
                            > valid reasons why we have a problem in the Middle
                            > East.
                            >
                            > See, the problem isn't so much `them' as it is we as
                            > citizens who
                            > allow this to happen in our name.
                            >
                            >
                            > Gregory
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > --- In prezveepsenator@yahoogroups.com, richard
                            > kelly
                            > <richwkelly@...> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > Gregory:
                            > >
                            > > Actually I got that from an interview last night
                            > > on the Charlie Rose show, I dont have cable or
                            > > watch Fox.
                            > >
                            > > As long as this insurgency goes on, our troops
                            > > will stay in Iraq, so of course our goal ought to
                            > > be to see the Iraqi government succeed.
                            > >
                            > > As far as worrying about making the Arabs angry,
                            > > you do understand this is a war. No doubt D-Day
                            > > made Hitler angry, so I guess we shouldn't have
                            > > done it? As I understand it, and of course my
                            > reading
                            > > comprehension is suspect, the goal in a war is to
                            > > defeat your enemy, not to worry about his
                            > feelings.
                            > >
                            > > Cheers,
                            > >
                            > > Richard Kelly
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > --- Gregory <greggolopry@...> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > > Reading comprehension is a virtue. Where in
                            > heck
                            > > > did you come up
                            > > > with the nonsense you just spewed? Your wording
                            > is
                            > > > ripped from FAUX
                            > > > News and that is typical.
                            > > >
                            > > > I do not think that the news from Iraq
                            > diminishes
                            > > > the insurgency or
                            > > > the bloodshed to either the Iraqis or the
                            > Americans.
                            > > > The
                            > > > complexities of this matter seem to evade your
                            > > > thinking. Perhaps you
                            > > > might be better off reading about the
                            > `successful'
                            > > > invasions over the
                            > > > centuries in the Middle East and then
                            > commenting.
                            > > > By knowing the
                            > > > insurgency is strong and will continue does not
                            > mean
                            > > > I endorse it.
                            > > > It just means I understand it.
                            > > >
                            > > > I know that conservatives like to live in an
                            > alter
                            > > > universe but as
                            > > > for me I tend to keep my feet firmly planted and
                            > > > view the world head-
                            > > > on. I view the Middle East with warmness as I
                            > love
                            > > > it's rich history
                            > > > and the evolution of ideas that were born there
                            > and
                            > > > now are worldwide
                            > > > phenomenon's. I see your snappy little posts on
                            > > > various Yahoo groups
                            > > > as anti-Muslim and anti-Middle Eastern. I find
                            > that
                            > > > very sad indeed.
                            > > >
                            > > > Gregory
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > --- In prezveepsenator@yahoogroups.com, richard
                            > > > kelly
                            > > > <richwkelly@> wrote:
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Gregory:
                            > > > >
                            > > > > If it weakens the insurgency and reduces the
                            > > > number
                            > > > > of civilians being slaughtered, and maybe
                            > helps
                            > > > > strengthen the government of Iraq, wouldn't
                            > that
                            > > > > be worthwhile, or do you want to insurgency to
                            > > > > succeed?
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Richard Kelly
                            > > > >
                            > > > > --- Gregory <greggolopry@> wrote:
                            > > > >
                            > > > > > Actually Richard, it is not that big of a
                            > day.
                            > > > I
                            > > > > > have long held that
                            >
                            === message truncated ===


                            __________________________________________________
                            Do You Yahoo!?
                            Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                            http://mail.yahoo.com
                          • Ram Lau
                            ... All I can say is that I sincerely hope that this is the case. A realist would see the potential of the backlash of killing the regional leader of an
                            Message 13 of 14 , Jun 9 2:57 PM
                            • 0 Attachment
                              > other things, that the demise of Zarqawi might
                              > aid the new government, it will probably slow
                              > down the insurgency for a while, etc.

                              All I can say is that I sincerely hope that this is the case. A
                              realist would see the potential of the backlash of killing the
                              regional leader of an organization whose members aren't afraid of
                              dying for their cause.

                              Therefore, that was good news but surely not that big of a deal. At
                              least lot much bigger than Specter's going public to criticize
                              Cheney's darkness.

                              Ram
                            • Fader
                              Killing Al-Zarqawi is a must. I am amazed it took so long to get the job done. Lets just hope that while we were trying to take him out that we have some
                              Message 14 of 14 , Jun 10 11:03 AM
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Killing Al-Zarqawi is a must. I am amazed it took so long to get the
                                job done. Lets just hope that while we were trying to take him out
                                that we have some how wiped out his entire gene pool. Wife, kids, pets
                                and all.

                                The man cut the head off of an American, filmed it and sent it to the
                                press so the mans family could watch and the whole world could
                                witness. It is regrettable he died so quickly as I would have rathered
                                he met a much more painful death.

                                Fader



                                --- In prezveepsenator@yahoogroups.com, "Ram Lau" <ramlau@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > > divisive fellow than an unifying force. I have speculated all day
                                > > with friends here that this might make the insurgent's s more
                                > > committed and strong in the long run. Bush had a good day and will
                                >
                                > Precisely what I thought when the news first came out on TV at 4AM.
                                > Didn't we just make the madmen "madder" by killing one of their many
                                > leaders?
                                >
                                > If nuking the entire middle east and wipe them all out is not an
                                > option, perhaps we should come up with something wiser than making the
                                > angry mob angrier?
                                >
                                > Ram
                                >
                              Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.