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Re: [prezveepsenator] Re: Democrats Win Gov. Races in N.J., Va.

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  • Greg Cannon
    Tom, congratulations on your city s vote against Proposition 2. As far as I know Austin s the only town in Texas that went against it. I had hopes that El Paso
    Message 1 of 7 , Nov 9, 2005
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      Tom, congratulations on your city's vote against
      Proposition 2. As far as I know Austin's the only town
      in Texas that went against it. I had hopes that El
      Paso would vote no too, since we nearly always vote
      Democratic, but it passed here too.

      --- THOMAS JOHNSON <AVRCRDNG@...> wrote:

      > I really hope that the slash and burn, take no
      > prisoners campaigning is wearing thin with voters.
      > Dragging out ex-wives and using Hitler in campaign
      > ads
      > didn't work this time and I'd sure like to think
      > that
      > it is a trend, even if it is impossible to tell at
      > this point.
      >
      > Tom
      >
      > --- Gregory <greggolopry@...> wrote:
      >
      > >
      > >
      > > From The New York Times
      > >
      > > November 9, 2005
      > >
      > > Editorial
      > >
      > > Last Night's Results
      > > A year ago, George W. Bush said the voters of
      > > America had given him
      > > political capital that he intended to spend
      > pursuing
      > > his agenda.
      > > While it's always dangerous to read national
      > lessons
      > > into local
      > > elections, everyone from political consultants to
      > > the leaders of
      > > countries in the remote corners of Asia and Africa
      > > are going to
      > > assume the same thing from the results of
      > > yesterday's balloting: Mr.
      > > Bush's political capital has turned into a
      > deficit.
      > >
      > > The election of Lt. Gov. Tim Kaine in Virginia was
      > a
      > > surprise.
      > > Virginia has a Democratic governor now, but in
      > > national politics it
      > > is a safe Republican state. President Bush made a
      > > much-publicized
      > > last-minute campaign stop there to stump for the
      > > Republican, Jerry
      > > Kilgore. Everyone who has to make a decision about
      > > next year's
      > > Congressional elections - from promising
      > candidates
      > > who are mulling
      > > whether to listen to their party's pleas to run to
      > > campaign donors -
      > > are reading bad omens for the Republicans into
      > what
      > > happened after
      > > Mr. Bush left.
      > >
      > > All that could easily change. Mr. Bush could be
      > the
      > > catalyst for
      > > change, if he had the flexibility and imagination
      > to
      > > read the
      > > nation's mood. Whenever this president has gotten
      > > into trouble in the
      > > past, he has reflexively turned to his right-wing
      > > base, or his trump
      > > issue of antiterrorism and homeland security. That
      > > isn't working now.
      > > In Mr. Bush's last crisis, over Hurricane Katrina,
      > > he made a
      > > desperate grab for popularity in the form of
      > > sweeping promises of
      > > enormous spending to rebuild New Orleans -
      > promises
      > > that frightened
      > > his party. He is already in the process of
      > > backtracking on them.
      > >
      > > The current president followed his father's
      > > political career
      > > attentively, and drew the lesson that whenever the
      > > first President
      > > George Bush had problems at the polls, it was
      > caused
      > > by a failure to
      > > pay sufficient attention to Republican
      > > conservatives, particularly
      > > the cultural right.
      > >
      > > This President Bush can't possible imagine that he
      > > has that problem.
      > > It certainly wasn't the problem in Virginia, where
      > > the Republican
      > > candidate ran a hard-right campaign. The issue
      > right
      > > now is a
      > > national fear that the White House has no plan,
      > and
      > > no capacity to
      > > carry one out even if it existed.
      > >
      > > The voters in Virginia had other things on their
      > > minds besides the
      > > White House, but they went to the polls with a
      > sense
      > > of unease and
      > > dislocation that extended far beyond their state
      > > agendas. We're
      > > betting that had a lot to do with what happened
      > last
      > > night. And we
      > > hope that Mr. Bush learns the right lesson from
      > the
      > > results.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > --- In prezveepsenator@yahoogroups.com, Greg
      > Cannon
      > > <gregcannon1@y...> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > This means that Corzine, once inaugurated as New
      > > > Jersey's new governor, will get to name his own
      > > > replacement (who will then have to run for
      > > re-election
      > > > next year). I've read there's been quite a lot
      > of
      > > > competition for the job, and the two talked up
      > as
      > > most
      > > > likely are current Acting Governor Codey and
      > > > Congressman Menendez.
      > > >
      > > >
      > >
      >
      http://apnews.myway.com/article/20051109/D8DOM65GE.html
      > > >
      > > > Democrats Win Gov. Races in N.J., Va.
      > > >
      > > > Nov 8, 9:46 PM (ET)
      > > >
      > > > By ROBERT TANNER
      > > >
      > > > Democrats swept both governors' races Tuesday,
      > > with
      > > > Sen. Jon Corzine easily winning New Jersey and
      > Lt.
      > > > Gov. Tim Kaine taking Virginia despite a
      > > last-minute
      > > > campaign push for his opponent from President
      > > Bush.
      > > >
      > > > In Texas, voters overwhelmingly approved a
      > > > constitutional ban on gay marriage, while
      > > Republican
      > > > Mayor Mike Bloomberg surged ahead in his bid for
      > a
      > > > second term in heavily Democratic New York.
      > Voters
      > > > also picked mayors in Detroit, Houston, San
      > Diego
      > > and
      > > > Boston.
      > > >
      > > > Kaine had 860,719 votes, or 51 percent, to
      > > Kilgore's
      > > > 789,273 votes, or 46.8 percent, with 88 percent
      > of
      > > > precincts reporting.
      > > >
      > > > In New Jersey, Democratic Sen. Jon Corzine
      > > trounced
      > > > Doug Forrester, pulling in 54 percent of the
      > vote
      > > to
      > > > the Republican's 42.8 percent, with 55 percent
      > of
      > > > precincts counted. Corzine had 605,915 votes,
      > and
      > > > Forrester had 480,477.
      > > >
      > > > In California, several government-overhaul
      > > measures on
      > > > the ballot were seen as a referendum on GOP Gov.
      > > > Arnold Schwarzenegger, who campaigned hard for
      > > them.
      > > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
      === message truncated ===
    • THOMAS JOHNSON
      Thanks, Greg.. Was the margin close in El Paso? Incidentally, I heard that Scott McClellan said that yeasterday s election showed how out of touch the
      Message 2 of 7 , Nov 9, 2005
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        Thanks, Greg.. Was the margin close in El Paso?
        Incidentally, I heard that Scott McClellan said that
        yeasterday's election showed how out of touch the
        Democrats are. Scott may want to guess again about who
        is out of touch.

        Tom



        --- Greg Cannon <gregcannon1@...> wrote:

        > Tom, congratulations on your city's vote against
        > Proposition 2. As far as I know Austin's the only
        > town
        > in Texas that went against it. I had hopes that El
        > Paso would vote no too, since we nearly always vote
        > Democratic, but it passed here too.
        >
        > --- THOMAS JOHNSON <AVRCRDNG@...> wrote:
        >
        > > I really hope that the slash and burn, take no
        > > prisoners campaigning is wearing thin with voters.
        > > Dragging out ex-wives and using Hitler in campaign
        > > ads
        > > didn't work this time and I'd sure like to think
        > > that
        > > it is a trend, even if it is impossible to tell at
        > > this point.
        > >
        > > Tom
        > >
        > > --- Gregory <greggolopry@...> wrote:
        > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > From The New York Times
        > > >
        > > > November 9, 2005
        > > >
        > > > Editorial
        > > >
        > > > Last Night's Results
        > > > A year ago, George W. Bush said the voters of
        > > > America had given him
        > > > political capital that he intended to spend
        > > pursuing
        > > > his agenda.
        > > > While it's always dangerous to read national
        > > lessons
        > > > into local
        > > > elections, everyone from political consultants
        > to
        > > > the leaders of
        > > > countries in the remote corners of Asia and
        > Africa
        > > > are going to
        > > > assume the same thing from the results of
        > > > yesterday's balloting: Mr.
        > > > Bush's political capital has turned into a
        > > deficit.
        > > >
        > > > The election of Lt. Gov. Tim Kaine in Virginia
        > was
        > > a
        > > > surprise.
        > > > Virginia has a Democratic governor now, but in
        > > > national politics it
        > > > is a safe Republican state. President Bush made
        > a
        > > > much-publicized
        > > > last-minute campaign stop there to stump for the
        > > > Republican, Jerry
        > > > Kilgore. Everyone who has to make a decision
        > about
        > > > next year's
        > > > Congressional elections - from promising
        > > candidates
        > > > who are mulling
        > > > whether to listen to their party's pleas to run
        > to
        > > > campaign donors -
        > > > are reading bad omens for the Republicans into
        > > what
        > > > happened after
        > > > Mr. Bush left.
        > > >
        > > > All that could easily change. Mr. Bush could be
        > > the
        > > > catalyst for
        > > > change, if he had the flexibility and
        > imagination
        > > to
        > > > read the
        > > > nation's mood. Whenever this president has
        > gotten
        > > > into trouble in the
        > > > past, he has reflexively turned to his
        > right-wing
        > > > base, or his trump
        > > > issue of antiterrorism and homeland security.
        > That
        > > > isn't working now.
        > > > In Mr. Bush's last crisis, over Hurricane
        > Katrina,
        > > > he made a
        > > > desperate grab for popularity in the form of
        > > > sweeping promises of
        > > > enormous spending to rebuild New Orleans -
        > > promises
        > > > that frightened
        > > > his party. He is already in the process of
        > > > backtracking on them.
        > > >
        > > > The current president followed his father's
        > > > political career
        > > > attentively, and drew the lesson that whenever
        > the
        > > > first President
        > > > George Bush had problems at the polls, it was
        > > caused
        > > > by a failure to
        > > > pay sufficient attention to Republican
        > > > conservatives, particularly
        > > > the cultural right.
        > > >
        > > > This President Bush can't possible imagine that
        > he
        > > > has that problem.
        > > > It certainly wasn't the problem in Virginia,
        > where
        > > > the Republican
        > > > candidate ran a hard-right campaign. The issue
        > > right
        > > > now is a
        > > > national fear that the White House has no plan,
        > > and
        > > > no capacity to
        > > > carry one out even if it existed.
        > > >
        > > > The voters in Virginia had other things on their
        > > > minds besides the
        > > > White House, but they went to the polls with a
        > > sense
        > > > of unease and
        > > > dislocation that extended far beyond their state
        > > > agendas. We're
        > > > betting that had a lot to do with what happened
        > > last
        > > > night. And we
        > > > hope that Mr. Bush learns the right lesson from
        > > the
        > > > results.
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > --- In prezveepsenator@yahoogroups.com, Greg
        > > Cannon
        > > > <gregcannon1@y...> wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > This means that Corzine, once inaugurated as
        > New
        > > > > Jersey's new governor, will get to name his
        > own
        > > > > replacement (who will then have to run for
        > > > re-election
        > > > > next year). I've read there's been quite a lot
        > > of
        > > > > competition for the job, and the two talked up
        > > as
        > > > most
        > > > > likely are current Acting Governor Codey and
        > > > > Congressman Menendez.
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > >
        >
        http://apnews.myway.com/article/20051109/D8DOM65GE.html
        > > > >
        > > > > Democrats Win Gov. Races in N.J., Va.
        > > > >
        > > > > Nov 8, 9:46 PM (ET)
        > > > >
        > > > > By ROBERT TANNER
        > > > >
        > > > > Democrats swept both governors' races Tuesday,
        > > > with
        > > > > Sen. Jon Corzine easily winning New Jersey and
        > > Lt.
        > > > > Gov. Tim Kaine taking Virginia despite a
        > > > last-minute
        > > > > campaign push for his opponent from President
        > > > Bush.
        > > > >
        > > > > In Texas, voters overwhelmingly approved a
        > > > > constitutional ban on gay marriage, while
        > > > Republican
        > > > > Mayor Mike Bloomberg surged ahead in his bid
        > for
        > > a
        > > > > second term in heavily Democratic New York.
        > > Voters
        > > > > also picked mayors in Detroit, Houston, San
        > > Diego
        > > > and
        > > > > Boston.
        > > > >
        > > > > Kaine had 860,719 votes, or 51 percent, to
        > > > Kilgore's
        >
        === message truncated ===
      • Greg Cannon
        No it wasn t close at all here (though we had low turn out, 8%, which is low even for El Pasoans, who are notoriously apathetic about politics). The final
        Message 3 of 7 , Nov 9, 2005
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          No it wasn't close at all here (though we had low turn
          out, 8%, which is low even for El Pasoans, who are
          notoriously apathetic about politics). The final
          result here was 68% to 32%, 19854 votes to 9309 votes.


          --- THOMAS JOHNSON <AVRCRDNG@...> wrote:

          > Thanks, Greg.. Was the margin close in El Paso?
          > Incidentally, I heard that Scott McClellan said that
          > yeasterday's election showed how out of touch the
          > Democrats are. Scott may want to guess again about
          > who
          > is out of touch.
          >
          > Tom
          >
          >
          >
          > --- Greg Cannon <gregcannon1@...> wrote:
          >
          > > Tom, congratulations on your city's vote against
          > > Proposition 2. As far as I know Austin's the only
          > > town
          > > in Texas that went against it. I had hopes that El
          > > Paso would vote no too, since we nearly always
          > vote
          > > Democratic, but it passed here too.
          > >
          > > --- THOMAS JOHNSON <AVRCRDNG@...> wrote:
          > >
          > > > I really hope that the slash and burn, take no
          > > > prisoners campaigning is wearing thin with
          > voters.
          > > > Dragging out ex-wives and using Hitler in
          > campaign
          > > > ads
          > > > didn't work this time and I'd sure like to think
          > > > that
          > > > it is a trend, even if it is impossible to tell
          > at
          > > > this point.
          > > >
          > > > Tom
          > > >
          > > > --- Gregory <greggolopry@...> wrote:
          > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > From The New York Times
          > > > >
          > > > > November 9, 2005
          > > > >
          > > > > Editorial
          > > > >
          > > > > Last Night's Results
          > > > > A year ago, George W. Bush said the voters of
          > > > > America had given him
          > > > > political capital that he intended to spend
          > > > pursuing
          > > > > his agenda.
          > > > > While it's always dangerous to read national
          > > > lessons
          > > > > into local
          > > > > elections, everyone from political consultants
          > > to
          > > > > the leaders of
          > > > > countries in the remote corners of Asia and
          > > Africa
          > > > > are going to
          > > > > assume the same thing from the results of
          > > > > yesterday's balloting: Mr.
          > > > > Bush's political capital has turned into a
          > > > deficit.
          > > > >
          > > > > The election of Lt. Gov. Tim Kaine in Virginia
          > > was
          > > > a
          > > > > surprise.
          > > > > Virginia has a Democratic governor now, but in
          > > > > national politics it
          > > > > is a safe Republican state. President Bush
          > made
          > > a
          > > > > much-publicized
          > > > > last-minute campaign stop there to stump for
          > the
          > > > > Republican, Jerry
          > > > > Kilgore. Everyone who has to make a decision
          > > about
          > > > > next year's
          > > > > Congressional elections - from promising
          > > > candidates
          > > > > who are mulling
          > > > > whether to listen to their party's pleas to
          > run
          > > to
          > > > > campaign donors -
          > > > > are reading bad omens for the Republicans into
          > > > what
          > > > > happened after
          > > > > Mr. Bush left.
          > > > >
          > > > > All that could easily change. Mr. Bush could
          > be
          > > > the
          > > > > catalyst for
          > > > > change, if he had the flexibility and
          > > imagination
          > > > to
          > > > > read the
          > > > > nation's mood. Whenever this president has
          > > gotten
          > > > > into trouble in the
          > > > > past, he has reflexively turned to his
          > > right-wing
          > > > > base, or his trump
          > > > > issue of antiterrorism and homeland security.
          > > That
          > > > > isn't working now.
          > > > > In Mr. Bush's last crisis, over Hurricane
          > > Katrina,
          > > > > he made a
          > > > > desperate grab for popularity in the form of
          > > > > sweeping promises of
          > > > > enormous spending to rebuild New Orleans -
          > > > promises
          > > > > that frightened
          > > > > his party. He is already in the process of
          > > > > backtracking on them.
          > > > >
          > > > > The current president followed his father's
          > > > > political career
          > > > > attentively, and drew the lesson that whenever
          > > the
          > > > > first President
          > > > > George Bush had problems at the polls, it was
          > > > caused
          > > > > by a failure to
          > > > > pay sufficient attention to Republican
          > > > > conservatives, particularly
          > > > > the cultural right.
          > > > >
          > > > > This President Bush can't possible imagine
          > that
          > > he
          > > > > has that problem.
          > > > > It certainly wasn't the problem in Virginia,
          > > where
          > > > > the Republican
          > > > > candidate ran a hard-right campaign. The issue
          > > > right
          > > > > now is a
          > > > > national fear that the White House has no
          > plan,
          > > > and
          > > > > no capacity to
          > > > > carry one out even if it existed.
          > > > >
          > > > > The voters in Virginia had other things on
          > their
          > > > > minds besides the
          > > > > White House, but they went to the polls with a
          > > > sense
          > > > > of unease and
          > > > > dislocation that extended far beyond their
          > state
          > > > > agendas. We're
          > > > > betting that had a lot to do with what
          > happened
          > > > last
          > > > > night. And we
          > > > > hope that Mr. Bush learns the right lesson
          > from
          > > > the
          > > > > results.
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > --- In prezveepsenator@yahoogroups.com, Greg
          > > > Cannon
          > > > > <gregcannon1@y...> wrote:
          > > > > >
          > > > > > This means that Corzine, once inaugurated as
          > > New
          > > > > > Jersey's new governor, will get to name his
          > > own
          > > > > > replacement (who will then have to run for
          > > > > re-election
          > > > > > next year). I've read there's been quite a
          > lot
          > > > of
          > > > > > competition for the job, and the two talked
          > up
          > > > as
          > > > > most
          > > > > > likely are current Acting Governor Codey and
          > > > > > Congressman Menendez.
          > > > > >
          > > > > >
          > > > >
          > > >
          > >
          >
          http://apnews.myway.com/article/20051109/D8DOM65GE.html
          > > > > >
          >
          === message truncated ===
        • THOMAS JOHNSON
          Kind of in line with the rest of the state.. I suspect that the churches got the vote out ( bigotry and hatred being part of what passes for Christian values
          Message 4 of 7 , Nov 10, 2005
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            Kind of in line with the rest of the state.. I suspect
            that the churches got the vote out ( bigotry and
            hatred being part of what passes for Christian values
            these days) and most people stayed home.

            Tom



            --- Greg Cannon <gregcannon1@...> wrote:

            > No it wasn't close at all here (though we had low
            > turn
            > out, 8%, which is low even for El Pasoans, who are
            > notoriously apathetic about politics). The final
            > result here was 68% to 32%, 19854 votes to 9309
            > votes.
            >
            >
            > --- THOMAS JOHNSON <AVRCRDNG@...> wrote:
            >
            > > Thanks, Greg.. Was the margin close in El Paso?
            > > Incidentally, I heard that Scott McClellan said
            > that
            > > yeasterday's election showed how out of touch the
            > > Democrats are. Scott may want to guess again about
            > > who
            > > is out of touch.
            > >
            > > Tom
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > --- Greg Cannon <gregcannon1@...> wrote:
            > >
            > > > Tom, congratulations on your city's vote against
            > > > Proposition 2. As far as I know Austin's the
            > only
            > > > town
            > > > in Texas that went against it. I had hopes that
            > El
            > > > Paso would vote no too, since we nearly always
            > > vote
            > > > Democratic, but it passed here too.
            > > >
            > > > --- THOMAS JOHNSON <AVRCRDNG@...> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > > I really hope that the slash and burn, take no
            > > > > prisoners campaigning is wearing thin with
            > > voters.
            > > > > Dragging out ex-wives and using Hitler in
            > > campaign
            > > > > ads
            > > > > didn't work this time and I'd sure like to
            > think
            > > > > that
            > > > > it is a trend, even if it is impossible to
            > tell
            > > at
            > > > > this point.
            > > > >
            > > > > Tom
            > > > >
            > > > > --- Gregory <greggolopry@...> wrote:
            > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > > From The New York Times
            > > > > >
            > > > > > November 9, 2005
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Editorial
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Last Night's Results
            > > > > > A year ago, George W. Bush said the voters
            > of
            > > > > > America had given him
            > > > > > political capital that he intended to spend
            > > > > pursuing
            > > > > > his agenda.
            > > > > > While it's always dangerous to read national
            > > > > lessons
            > > > > > into local
            > > > > > elections, everyone from political
            > consultants
            > > > to
            > > > > > the leaders of
            > > > > > countries in the remote corners of Asia and
            > > > Africa
            > > > > > are going to
            > > > > > assume the same thing from the results of
            > > > > > yesterday's balloting: Mr.
            > > > > > Bush's political capital has turned into a
            > > > > deficit.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > The election of Lt. Gov. Tim Kaine in
            > Virginia
            > > > was
            > > > > a
            > > > > > surprise.
            > > > > > Virginia has a Democratic governor now, but
            > in
            > > > > > national politics it
            > > > > > is a safe Republican state. President Bush
            > > made
            > > > a
            > > > > > much-publicized
            > > > > > last-minute campaign stop there to stump for
            > > the
            > > > > > Republican, Jerry
            > > > > > Kilgore. Everyone who has to make a decision
            > > > about
            > > > > > next year's
            > > > > > Congressional elections - from promising
            > > > > candidates
            > > > > > who are mulling
            > > > > > whether to listen to their party's pleas to
            > > run
            > > > to
            > > > > > campaign donors -
            > > > > > are reading bad omens for the Republicans
            > into
            > > > > what
            > > > > > happened after
            > > > > > Mr. Bush left.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > All that could easily change. Mr. Bush could
            > > be
            > > > > the
            > > > > > catalyst for
            > > > > > change, if he had the flexibility and
            > > > imagination
            > > > > to
            > > > > > read the
            > > > > > nation's mood. Whenever this president has
            > > > gotten
            > > > > > into trouble in the
            > > > > > past, he has reflexively turned to his
            > > > right-wing
            > > > > > base, or his trump
            > > > > > issue of antiterrorism and homeland
            > security.
            > > > That
            > > > > > isn't working now.
            > > > > > In Mr. Bush's last crisis, over Hurricane
            > > > Katrina,
            > > > > > he made a
            > > > > > desperate grab for popularity in the form of
            > > > > > sweeping promises of
            > > > > > enormous spending to rebuild New Orleans -
            > > > > promises
            > > > > > that frightened
            > > > > > his party. He is already in the process of
            > > > > > backtracking on them.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > The current president followed his father's
            > > > > > political career
            > > > > > attentively, and drew the lesson that
            > whenever
            > > > the
            > > > > > first President
            > > > > > George Bush had problems at the polls, it
            > was
            > > > > caused
            > > > > > by a failure to
            > > > > > pay sufficient attention to Republican
            > > > > > conservatives, particularly
            > > > > > the cultural right.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > This President Bush can't possible imagine
            > > that
            > > > he
            > > > > > has that problem.
            > > > > > It certainly wasn't the problem in Virginia,
            > > > where
            > > > > > the Republican
            > > > > > candidate ran a hard-right campaign. The
            > issue
            > > > > right
            > > > > > now is a
            > > > > > national fear that the White House has no
            > > plan,
            > > > > and
            > > > > > no capacity to
            > > > > > carry one out even if it existed.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > The voters in Virginia had other things on
            > > their
            > > > > > minds besides the
            > > > > > White House, but they went to the polls with
            > a
            > > > > sense
            > > > > > of unease and
            > > > > > dislocation that extended far beyond their
            > > state
            > > > > > agendas. We're
            > > > > > betting that had a lot to do with what
            > > happened
            > > > > last
            > > > > > night. And we
            > > > > > hope that Mr. Bush learns the right lesson
            > > from
            > > > > the
            > > > > > results.
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > > --- In prezveepsenator@yahoogroups.com, Greg
            >
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