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Re: [prezveepsenator] The Badge of Honor

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  • THOMAS JOHNSON
    I think that episode was the smartest hour of TV drama I have ever seen but for my money, it was not the best thing on yesterday. Did anyone catch Doris Kearns
    Message 1 of 6 , Nov 8, 2005
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      I think that episode was the smartest hour of TV drama
      I have ever seen but for my money, it was not the best
      thing on yesterday. Did anyone catch Doris Kearns
      Goodwin on Cspan II ? I saw all 3 hrs of it and it was
      fascinating. I was particularly struck by her comment
      that a large part of Lincoln's genius came from his
      ability to understand all sides of an issue. It seems
      to me that if everyone tried just a little bit harder
      in that regard, our nation would be so much healthier
      and would constitute a true act of patriotism.

      Tom



      --- Ram Lau <ramlau@...> wrote:

      > "Well, liberals ended slavery in this country.
      > Liberals' got women the
      > right to vote. Liberals' got African Americans the
      > right to vote.
      > Liberals' created Social Security and lifted
      > millions of elderly
      > people out of poverty. Liberals' ended segregation.
      > Liberals' passed
      > the Civil Rights Act, the Voting Rights Act.
      > Liberals' created
      > Medicare. Liberals' passed the Clean Air Act, the
      > Clean Water Act.
      > What did the conservatives have to do? They opposed
      > every single one
      > of those things, every one. When you try to hurl
      > that label at my feet
      > as if it's something to run away from, I will pick
      > up that label and
      > wear it as a badge of honor." Matt Santos (D-TX),
      > Democratic
      > Presidential Nominee 2006 of the West Wing,
      > 11/7/2005
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
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    • Gregory
      I too enjoyed the West Wing debate but felt it lacked the punch it could have had. Too many stilted moments along the way. However I totally agree with your
      Message 2 of 6 , Nov 8, 2005
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        I too enjoyed the West Wing debate but felt it lacked the punch it
        could have had. Too many stilted moments along the way. However I
        totally agree with your thoughts on trying to understand many sides
        of an issue.

        RN brought Arthur Burns and Dan Moynihan into his administration for
        several reasons, but truly enjoyed their ability to take on an issue
        from different perspectives and dissect it for further illumination.
        FDR loved to have broad ranging discussions with competing ideas
        while he served his terms in Washington.

        Presidents should not be isolated from thoughts even though they may
        be isolated in the White House for varying reasons. FDR's mobility
        issues never were a factor for limiting his curious mind, and today's
        leader has no excuses either. Except he lacks the "curious" gene.

        Gregory



        --- In prezveepsenator@yahoogroups.com, THOMAS JOHNSON
        <AVRCRDNG@F...> wrote:
        >
        > I think that episode was the smartest hour of TV drama
        > I have ever seen but for my money, it was not the best
        > thing on yesterday. Did anyone catch Doris Kearns
        > Goodwin on Cspan II ? I saw all 3 hrs of it and it was
        > fascinating. I was particularly struck by her comment
        > that a large part of Lincoln's genius came from his
        > ability to understand all sides of an issue. It seems
        > to me that if everyone tried just a little bit harder
        > in that regard, our nation would be so much healthier
        > and would constitute a true act of patriotism.
        >
        > Tom
        >
        >
        >
        > --- Ram Lau <ramlau@y...> wrote:
        >
        > > "Well, liberals ended slavery in this country.
        > > Liberals' got women the
        > > right to vote. Liberals' got African Americans the
        > > right to vote.
        > > Liberals' created Social Security and lifted
        > > millions of elderly
        > > people out of poverty. Liberals' ended segregation.
        > > Liberals' passed
        > > the Civil Rights Act, the Voting Rights Act.
        > > Liberals' created
        > > Medicare. Liberals' passed the Clean Air Act, the
        > > Clean Water Act.
        > > What did the conservatives have to do? They opposed
        > > every single one
        > > of those things, every one. When you try to hurl
        > > that label at my feet
        > > as if it's something to run away from, I will pick
        > > up that label and
        > > wear it as a badge of honor." Matt Santos (D-TX),
        > > Democratic
        > > Presidential Nominee 2006 of the West Wing,
        > > 11/7/2005
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
        > > --------------------~-->
        > > Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make
        > > Yahoo! your home page
        > >
        > http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/CvmplB/TM
        > >
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        ~->
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        >
      • Ram Lau
        ... I saw most of it. Definitely fascinating. Will tape it down on the computer when they get the Real Video stream on the BookTV website. ... And to resonate
        Message 3 of 6 , Nov 8, 2005
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          > I think that episode was the smartest hour of TV drama
          > I have ever seen but for my money, it was not the best
          > thing on yesterday. Did anyone catch Doris Kearns
          > Goodwin on Cspan II ? I saw all 3 hrs of it and it was
          > fascinating. I was particularly struck by her comment

          I saw most of it. Definitely fascinating. Will tape it down on the
          computer when they get the Real Video stream on the BookTV website.


          > that a large part of Lincoln's genius came from his
          > ability to understand all sides of an issue. It seems
          > to me that if everyone tried just a little bit harder
          > in that regard, our nation would be so much healthier
          > and would constitute a true act of patriotism.

          And to resonate Goodwin, Smits/Santos called him "A LIBERAL
          Republican" rightfully so in the debate. I think the American people
          badly deverse a lesson on who the liberals were and what they have
          done to make the country and the world a much better place. There is
          just too much "un-demonizing" to do.

          Ram
        • Ram Lau
          ... The greatest Presidents will always be Washington, Lincoln, and Roosevelt. Some history just can t be repeated. Their times and events will always be
          Message 4 of 6 , Nov 8, 2005
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            > FDR loved to have broad ranging discussions with competing ideas
            > while he served his terms in Washington.

            The greatest Presidents will always be Washington, Lincoln, and
            Roosevelt. Some history just can't be repeated. Their times and events
            will always be remembered by mankind.

            There is only one FDR. The New Deal coalition was a miracle because he
            managed to unite the liberal North and the conservative South together
            in such a depressing era. He knew his limits and he tried to achieve
            everything he could within his reach (thus the silence on lynching,
            for example). Clinton came pretty close in this political shrewdness
            aspect. The more idealistic (and often more militant) contemporaries -
            the Henry Wallaces, the Bill Douglasses, the Paul Wellstones - just
            didn't have the same kind of skills to use their political assets.

            Having said all that, I doubt that FDR really wanted to listen to the
            Southern bumpkins though. But they controlled the Congress and broad
            ranging discussions became necessary.

            Ram
          • THOMAS JOHNSON
            I agree with everything both of you guys said and, further more, really appreciate the historical perspective that you bring to the discussions. I also agree
            Message 5 of 6 , Nov 8, 2005
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              I agree with everything both of you guys said and,
              further more, really appreciate the historical
              perspective that you bring to the discussions.
              I also agree that Bill Clinton showed glimpses of
              greatness by bring in Republicans David Gergen and
              William Cohen, but then I factor in Dick Morris and it
              goes down a few pegs.. I wouldn't want to argue that
              it didn't work, though.

              Tom



              --- Gregory <greggolopry@...> wrote:

              > I too enjoyed the West Wing debate but felt it
              > lacked the punch it
              > could have had. Too many stilted moments along the
              > way. However I
              > totally agree with your thoughts on trying to
              > understand many sides
              > of an issue.
              >
              > RN brought Arthur Burns and Dan Moynihan into his
              > administration for
              > several reasons, but truly enjoyed their ability to
              > take on an issue
              > from different perspectives and dissect it for
              > further illumination.
              > FDR loved to have broad ranging discussions with
              > competing ideas
              > while he served his terms in Washington.
              >
              > Presidents should not be isolated from thoughts even
              > though they may
              > be isolated in the White House for varying reasons.
              > FDR's mobility
              > issues never were a factor for limiting his curious
              > mind, and today's
              > leader has no excuses either. Except he lacks the
              > "curious" gene.
              >
              > Gregory
              >
              >
              >
              > --- In prezveepsenator@yahoogroups.com, THOMAS
              > JOHNSON
              > <AVRCRDNG@F...> wrote:
              > >
              > > I think that episode was the smartest hour of TV
              > drama
              > > I have ever seen but for my money, it was not the
              > best
              > > thing on yesterday. Did anyone catch Doris Kearns
              > > Goodwin on Cspan II ? I saw all 3 hrs of it and it
              > was
              > > fascinating. I was particularly struck by her
              > comment
              > > that a large part of Lincoln's genius came from
              > his
              > > ability to understand all sides of an issue. It
              > seems
              > > to me that if everyone tried just a little bit
              > harder
              > > in that regard, our nation would be so much
              > healthier
              > > and would constitute a true act of patriotism.
              > >
              > > Tom
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > --- Ram Lau <ramlau@y...> wrote:
              > >
              > > > "Well, liberals ended slavery in this country.
              > > > Liberals' got women the
              > > > right to vote. Liberals' got African Americans
              > the
              > > > right to vote.
              > > > Liberals' created Social Security and lifted
              > > > millions of elderly
              > > > people out of poverty. Liberals' ended
              > segregation.
              > > > Liberals' passed
              > > > the Civil Rights Act, the Voting Rights Act.
              > > > Liberals' created
              > > > Medicare. Liberals' passed the Clean Air Act,
              > the
              > > > Clean Water Act.
              > > > What did the conservatives have to do? They
              > opposed
              > > > every single one
              > > > of those things, every one. When you try to hurl
              > > > that label at my feet
              > > > as if it's something to run away from, I will
              > pick
              > > > up that label and
              > > > wear it as a badge of honor." Matt Santos
              > (D-TX),
              > > > Democratic
              > > > Presidential Nominee 2006 of the West Wing,
              > > > 11/7/2005
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
              > > > --------------------~-->
              > > > Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups.
              > Make
              > > > Yahoo! your home page
              > > >
              > >
              >
              http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/CvmplB/TM
              > > >
              > >
              >
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              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
              > --------------------~-->
              > Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make
              > Yahoo! your home page
              >
              http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/CvmplB/TM
              >
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              >
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