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Re: Did Nixon speak out against Goldwater's racial stance in 1964?

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  • Ram Lau
    Wilson was a Dixiecrat, and, as a matter of fact, quite proud of being one. The way I see Nixon is that he was willing to be either the good or bad guy. I fail
    Message 1 of 6 , Aug 24, 2005
      Wilson was a Dixiecrat, and, as a matter of fact, quite proud of being
      one.

      The way I see Nixon is that he was willing to be either the good or
      bad guy. I fail to see what kind of legacy he wanted to shape, and
      maybe he just didn't care. He would've been a strong Civil Rights
      supporter had the Democrats not gone all out for the Black votes. As
      Machiavellian as he was, every vote was within his calculation. And by
      1968, it was a "wise move" to let go any support from Blacks (since
      Goldwater totally ruined it for him anyway) and go for the KKK votes
      instead. The plan worked out quite well for him, didn't it?

      Ram


      --- In prezveepsenator@yahoogroups.com, THOMAS JOHNSON <AVRCRDNG@F...>
      wrote:
      > That's a lot to think about.
      > According to Joan Hoff writing in Nixon Reconsidered,
      > Nixon told her that his roots were in the progressive
      > wing of the Republican Party, and by initiating the
      > EPA, the Social Security Income program, and the
      > Office for Minority Business Enterprise, there seems
      > to be some credence to that. And though he started
      > with a higher approval rating than JFK or LBJ in
      > their first 6 months in office, he felt that the press
      > was out to get him, despite being supported by the
      > vast majority of periodicals and daily newspapers in
      > all three runs for president. His paranoia probably
      > stopped him from attempting to do more.
      > In secretly bombing Cambodia, 100,000 Cambodian
      > peasants were killed and set the stage for the Khmer
      > Rouge to take over, resulting in another 1.7 million
      > deaths. He seems to have admitted that he prolonged
      > the Viet Nam war for several years to help him get
      > re-elected.
      > He was an asshole, alright, and an insecure one, at
      > that.... he probably knew it but I don't think he
      > cared. The man must have been a sociopath.
      > It looks to me like we have the same situation
      > happening today, and I'm beginning to wonder whether
      > Wilson was one, as well.
      >
      > Tom
      >
      >
      > --- Ram Lau <ramlau@y...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > ---------------------------------
      > I had a conversation with an emeritus professor on
      > race and the
      > Presidents yesterday. It began with his son at Yale
      > working on his
      > history dissertation on Woodrow Wilson's Southern
      > roots and my "Nixon
      > 96" shirt.
      >
      > Knowing how racist Wilson was, I had no intention to
      > defend him. Then
      > I pointed out that the New Deal coalition was very
      > solid until the
      > late 40's when Eleanor Roosevelt and Harry Truman and
      > Hubert Humphrey
      > and the ADA and other Civil Rights pioneers
      > substantially shaked up
      > the civil rights stances of both parties for the first
      > time.
      >
      > Nixon was the last GOP leader who could do something
      > about preserving
      > the moderate wing of the Party. But he wanted to win
      > so badly that he
      > came to the South and sought for the Klan votes
      > instead. His
      > anti-busing stance in 1972 was yet another blow that
      > drove away the
      > "good elements" of the GOP. I wonder if he realized
      > how much of an
      > asshole he was. I'm quite sure he did.
      >
      > He could have been the good guy and would have done
      > great. But that
      > role was taken by LBJ. Now that his infamous name will
      > long live...
      > perhaps that's what he wanted?
      >
      > Ram
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ---------------------------------
      > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
      >
      >
      > Visit your group "prezveepsenator" on the web.
      >
      > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      > prezveepsenator-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      >
      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
      > Terms of Service.
      >
      >
      > ---------------------------------
    • THOMAS JOHNSON
      Good point. Nixon was a brilliant strategist but didn t really stand for anything. Or maybe he looked at Harry Truman s 24% approval rating in 1951 and decided
      Message 2 of 6 , Aug 25, 2005
        Good point. Nixon was a brilliant strategist but
        didn't really stand for anything. Or maybe he looked
        at Harry Truman's 24% approval rating in 1951 and
        decided that integrity was a liability.
        Does anybody have any insight or thoughts on whether
        Wilson entered WW1 more with the US interests in mind
        or for political gain?

        Tom




        --- Ram Lau <ramlau@...> wrote:


        ---------------------------------
        Wilson was a Dixiecrat, and, as a matter of fact,
        quite proud of being
        one.

        The way I see Nixon is that he was willing to be
        either the good or
        bad guy. I fail to see what kind of legacy he wanted
        to shape, and
        maybe he just didn't care. He would've been a strong
        Civil Rights
        supporter had the Democrats not gone all out for the
        Black votes. As
        Machiavellian as he was, every vote was within his
        calculation. And by
        1968, it was a "wise move" to let go any support from
        Blacks (since
        Goldwater totally ruined it for him anyway) and go for
        the KKK votes
        instead. The plan worked out quite well for him,
        didn't it?

        Ram


        --- In prezveepsenator@yahoogroups.com, THOMAS JOHNSON
        <AVRCRDNG@F...>
        wrote:
        > That's a lot to think about.
        > According to Joan Hoff writing in Nixon
        Reconsidered,
        > Nixon told her that his roots were in the
        progressive
        > wing of the Republican Party, and by initiating the
        > EPA, the Social Security Income program, and the
        > Office for Minority Business Enterprise, there seems
        > to be some credence to that. And though he started
        > with a higher approval rating than JFK or LBJ in
        > their first 6 months in office, he felt that the
        press
        > was out to get him, despite being supported by the
        > vast majority of periodicals and daily newspapers in
        > all three runs for president. His paranoia probably
        > stopped him from attempting to do more.
        > In secretly bombing Cambodia, 100,000 Cambodian
        > peasants were killed and set the stage for the Khmer
        > Rouge to take over, resulting in another 1.7
        million
        > deaths. He seems to have admitted that he prolonged
        > the Viet Nam war for several years to help him get
        > re-elected.
        > He was an asshole, alright, and an insecure one, at
        > that.... he probably knew it but I don't think he
        > cared. The man must have been a sociopath.
        > It looks to me like we have the same situation
        > happening today, and I'm beginning to wonder whether
        > Wilson was one, as well.
        >
        > Tom
        >
        >
        > --- Ram Lau <ramlau@y...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > ---------------------------------
        > I had a conversation with an emeritus professor on
        > race and the
        > Presidents yesterday. It began with his son at Yale
        > working on his
        > history dissertation on Woodrow Wilson's Southern
        > roots and my "Nixon
        > 96" shirt.
        >
        > Knowing how racist Wilson was, I had no intention to
        > defend him. Then
        > I pointed out that the New Deal coalition was very
        > solid until the
        > late 40's when Eleanor Roosevelt and Harry Truman
        and
        > Hubert Humphrey
        > and the ADA and other Civil Rights pioneers
        > substantially shaked up
        > the civil rights stances of both parties for the
        first
        > time.
        >
        > Nixon was the last GOP leader who could do something
        > about preserving
        > the moderate wing of the Party. But he wanted to win
        > so badly that he
        > came to the South and sought for the Klan votes
        > instead. His
        > anti-busing stance in 1972 was yet another blow that
        > drove away the
        > "good elements" of the GOP. I wonder if he realized
        > how much of an
        > asshole he was. I'm quite sure he did.
        >
        > He could have been the good guy and would have done
        > great. But that
        > role was taken by LBJ. Now that his infamous name
        will
        > long live...
        > perhaps that's what he wanted?
        >
        > Ram
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > ---------------------------------
        > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
        >
        >
        > Visit your group "prezveepsenator" on the web.
        >
        > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email
        to:
        > prezveepsenator-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
        Yahoo!
        > Terms of Service.
        >
        >
        > ---------------------------------




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        ---------------------------------
      • Ram Lau
        Try this group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Our_American_Presidents Our group members aren t that responsive. And I just I don t think people in general care
        Message 3 of 6 , Aug 25, 2005
          Try this group:

          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Our_American_Presidents

          Our group members aren't that responsive. And I just I don't think
          people in general care much about history.

          Ram


          --- In prezveepsenator@yahoogroups.com, THOMAS JOHNSON <AVRCRDNG@F...>
          wrote:
          > Good point. Nixon was a brilliant strategist but
          > didn't really stand for anything. Or maybe he looked
          > at Harry Truman's 24% approval rating in 1951 and
          > decided that integrity was a liability.
          > Does anybody have any insight or thoughts on whether
          > Wilson entered WW1 more with the US interests in mind
          > or for political gain?
          >
          > Tom
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > --- Ram Lau <ramlau@y...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > ---------------------------------
          > Wilson was a Dixiecrat, and, as a matter of fact,
          > quite proud of being
          > one.
          >
          > The way I see Nixon is that he was willing to be
          > either the good or
          > bad guy. I fail to see what kind of legacy he wanted
          > to shape, and
          > maybe he just didn't care. He would've been a strong
          > Civil Rights
          > supporter had the Democrats not gone all out for the
          > Black votes. As
          > Machiavellian as he was, every vote was within his
          > calculation. And by
          > 1968, it was a "wise move" to let go any support from
          > Blacks (since
          > Goldwater totally ruined it for him anyway) and go for
          > the KKK votes
          > instead. The plan worked out quite well for him,
          > didn't it?
          >
          > Ram
          >
          >
          > --- In prezveepsenator@yahoogroups.com, THOMAS JOHNSON
          > <AVRCRDNG@F...>
          > wrote:
          > > That's a lot to think about.
          > > According to Joan Hoff writing in Nixon
          > Reconsidered,
          > > Nixon told her that his roots were in the
          > progressive
          > > wing of the Republican Party, and by initiating the
          > > EPA, the Social Security Income program, and the
          > > Office for Minority Business Enterprise, there seems
          > > to be some credence to that. And though he started
          > > with a higher approval rating than JFK or LBJ in
          > > their first 6 months in office, he felt that the
          > press
          > > was out to get him, despite being supported by the
          > > vast majority of periodicals and daily newspapers in
          > > all three runs for president. His paranoia probably
          > > stopped him from attempting to do more.
          > > In secretly bombing Cambodia, 100,000 Cambodian
          > > peasants were killed and set the stage for the Khmer
          > > Rouge to take over, resulting in another 1.7
          > million
          > > deaths. He seems to have admitted that he prolonged
          > > the Viet Nam war for several years to help him get
          > > re-elected.
          > > He was an asshole, alright, and an insecure one, at
          > > that.... he probably knew it but I don't think he
          > > cared. The man must have been a sociopath.
          > > It looks to me like we have the same situation
          > > happening today, and I'm beginning to wonder whether
          > > Wilson was one, as well.
          > >
          > > Tom
          > >
          > >
          > > --- Ram Lau <ramlau@y...> wrote:
          > >
          > >
          > > ---------------------------------
          > > I had a conversation with an emeritus professor on
          > > race and the
          > > Presidents yesterday. It began with his son at Yale
          > > working on his
          > > history dissertation on Woodrow Wilson's Southern
          > > roots and my "Nixon
          > > 96" shirt.
          > >
          > > Knowing how racist Wilson was, I had no intention to
          > > defend him. Then
          > > I pointed out that the New Deal coalition was very
          > > solid until the
          > > late 40's when Eleanor Roosevelt and Harry Truman
          > and
          > > Hubert Humphrey
          > > and the ADA and other Civil Rights pioneers
          > > substantially shaked up
          > > the civil rights stances of both parties for the
          > first
          > > time.
          > >
          > > Nixon was the last GOP leader who could do something
          > > about preserving
          > > the moderate wing of the Party. But he wanted to win
          > > so badly that he
          > > came to the South and sought for the Klan votes
          > > instead. His
          > > anti-busing stance in 1972 was yet another blow that
          > > drove away the
          > > "good elements" of the GOP. I wonder if he realized
          > > how much of an
          > > asshole he was. I'm quite sure he did.
          > >
          > > He could have been the good guy and would have done
          > > great. But that
          > > role was taken by LBJ. Now that his infamous name
          > will
          > > long live...
          > > perhaps that's what he wanted?
          > >
          > > Ram
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > ---------------------------------
          > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
          > >
          > >
          > > Visit your group "prezveepsenator" on the web.
          > >
          > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email
          > to:
          > > prezveepsenator-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          > >
          > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
          > Yahoo!
          > > Terms of Service.
          > >
          > >
          > > ---------------------------------
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > SPONSORED LINKS
          >
          > President bush
          > Supreme court justices
          > President
          > Supreme court
          >
          >
          > ---------------------------------
          > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
          >
          >
          > Visit your group "prezveepsenator" on the web.
          >
          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > prezveepsenator-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
          > Terms of Service.
          >
          >
          > ---------------------------------
        • THOMAS JOHNSON
          Thanks, Ram...It looks very interesting. Tom ... Try this group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Our_American_Presidents Our group members aren t that
          Message 4 of 6 , Aug 25, 2005
            Thanks, Ram...It looks very interesting.

            Tom



            --- Ram Lau <ramlau@...> wrote:


            ---------------------------------
            Try this group:

            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Our_American_Presidents

            Our group members aren't that responsive. And I just I
            don't think
            people in general care much about history.

            Ram


            --- In prezveepsenator@yahoogroups.com, THOMAS JOHNSON
            <AVRCRDNG@F...>
            wrote:
            > Good point. Nixon was a brilliant strategist but
            > didn't really stand for anything. Or maybe he looked
            > at Harry Truman's 24% approval rating in 1951 and
            > decided that integrity was a liability.
            > Does anybody have any insight or thoughts on whether
            > Wilson entered WW1 more with the US interests in
            mind
            > or for political gain?
            >
            > Tom
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > --- Ram Lau <ramlau@y...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > ---------------------------------
            > Wilson was a Dixiecrat, and, as a matter of fact,
            > quite proud of being
            > one.
            >
            > The way I see Nixon is that he was willing to be
            > either the good or
            > bad guy. I fail to see what kind of legacy he wanted
            > to shape, and
            > maybe he just didn't care. He would've been a strong
            > Civil Rights
            > supporter had the Democrats not gone all out for the
            > Black votes. As
            > Machiavellian as he was, every vote was within his
            > calculation. And by
            > 1968, it was a "wise move" to let go any support
            from
            > Blacks (since
            > Goldwater totally ruined it for him anyway) and go
            for
            > the KKK votes
            > instead. The plan worked out quite well for him,
            > didn't it?
            >
            > Ram
            >
            >
            > --- In prezveepsenator@yahoogroups.com, THOMAS
            JOHNSON
            > <AVRCRDNG@F...>
            > wrote:
            > > That's a lot to think about.
            > > According to Joan Hoff writing in Nixon
            > Reconsidered,
            > > Nixon told her that his roots were in the
            > progressive
            > > wing of the Republican Party, and by initiating
            the
            > > EPA, the Social Security Income program, and the
            > > Office for Minority Business Enterprise, there
            seems
            > > to be some credence to that. And though he started
            > > with a higher approval rating than JFK or LBJ in
            > > their first 6 months in office, he felt that the
            > press
            > > was out to get him, despite being supported by the
            > > vast majority of periodicals and daily newspapers
            in
            > > all three runs for president. His paranoia
            probably
            > > stopped him from attempting to do more.
            > > In secretly bombing Cambodia, 100,000 Cambodian
            > > peasants were killed and set the stage for the
            Khmer
            > > Rouge to take over, resulting in another 1.7
            > million
            > > deaths. He seems to have admitted that he
            prolonged
            > > the Viet Nam war for several years to help him get
            > > re-elected.
            > > He was an asshole, alright, and an insecure one,
            at
            > > that.... he probably knew it but I don't think he
            > > cared. The man must have been a sociopath.
            > > It looks to me like we have the same situation
            > > happening today, and I'm beginning to wonder
            whether
            > > Wilson was one, as well.
            > >
            > > Tom
            > >
            > >
            > > --- Ram Lau <ramlau@y...> wrote:
            > >
            > >
            > > ---------------------------------
            > > I had a conversation with an emeritus professor on
            > > race and the
            > > Presidents yesterday. It began with his son at
            Yale
            > > working on his
            > > history dissertation on Woodrow Wilson's Southern
            > > roots and my "Nixon
            > > 96" shirt.
            > >
            > > Knowing how racist Wilson was, I had no intention
            to
            > > defend him. Then
            > > I pointed out that the New Deal coalition was very
            > > solid until the
            > > late 40's when Eleanor Roosevelt and Harry Truman
            > and
            > > Hubert Humphrey
            > > and the ADA and other Civil Rights pioneers
            > > substantially shaked up
            > > the civil rights stances of both parties for the
            > first
            > > time.
            > >
            > > Nixon was the last GOP leader who could do
            something
            > > about preserving
            > > the moderate wing of the Party. But he wanted to
            win
            > > so badly that he
            > > came to the South and sought for the Klan votes
            > > instead. His
            > > anti-busing stance in 1972 was yet another blow
            that
            > > drove away the
            > > "good elements" of the GOP. I wonder if he
            realized
            > > how much of an
            > > asshole he was. I'm quite sure he did.
            > >
            > > He could have been the good guy and would have
            done
            > > great. But that
            > > role was taken by LBJ. Now that his infamous name
            > will
            > > long live...
            > > perhaps that's what he wanted?
            > >
            > > Ram
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > ---------------------------------
            > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
            > >
            > >
            > > Visit your group "prezveepsenator" on the web.
            > >
            > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email
            > to:
            > > prezveepsenator-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            > >
            > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
            > Yahoo!
            > > Terms of Service.
            > >
            > >
            > > ---------------------------------
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > SPONSORED LINKS
            >
            > President bush
            > Supreme court justices

            > President

            > Supreme court

            >
            >
            > ---------------------------------
            > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
            >
            >
            > Visit your group "prezveepsenator" on the web.
            >
            > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email
            to:
            > prezveepsenator-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
            Yahoo!
            > Terms of Service.
            >
            >
            > ---------------------------------





            SPONSORED LINKS

            President bush
            Supreme court justices
            President
            Supreme court


            ---------------------------------
            YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS


            Visit your group "prezveepsenator" on the web.

            To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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            Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
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