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9732 scandals

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  • THOMAS JOHNSON
    Aug 17, 2005
    • 0 Attachment
      While reading about the Harding administration and
      the Teapot Dome
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teapot_Dome scandal, I
      became re-acquainted with Fightin' Bob LaFollette
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_M._La_Follette%2C_Sr.,
      who's primary association for me was as a thorn in
      Wilson's side. Although Harding was very popular and
      the scandal had lost the public's interest, Republican
      LaFollette kept investigating through a Senate
      committee, with Democrat Thomas Walsh as point man.
      Eventually the lies did not hold up, resulting in
      imprisonment, suicides, and a disgraced
      administration.
      Fast forward 60 years to the Reagan administration and
      the Iran-Contra scandal
      ://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran-Contra_Affair This
      administration illegally traded arms for hostages,
      with disastrous results reverberating even today.
      Special prosecutor Walsh (ironically) granted immunity
      to some key figures and everybody walked. Far from re
      penitent, House Republicans impeached Bill Clinton,
      according to Representative Dana Rohrabacher R-Cal,
      primarily as payback for to the Democrats for pursuing
      Iran-Contra in the first place.
      In my opinion, Reagan did far more damage to our long
      term interests than Harding, yet Reagan is ranked the
      11th best president in Cspan's Survey of Presidential
      Leadership Survey
      http://www.americanpresidents.org/survey/historians/,
      comprised of prominent presidential historians, and
      Harding is ranked 40th of 41.
      How different things might have been if Bob LaFollette
      had towed the party line or if Lawrence Walsh had not.

      Tom Johnson
      --- Ram Lau <ramlau@...> wrote:


      ---------------------------------
      Greg,

      Rand has plenty of fans. They've even set up the Ayn
      Rand Institute in
      her name a decade ago:

      http://www.aynrand.org/

      She's the Milton Friedman of her era:

      "Ayn Rand (1905-1982) was an ardent advocate of
      reason, rational
      self-interest, individual rights and free-market
      capitalism.

      ARI seeks to promote these principles, spearheading a
      "cultural
      renaissance" that will reverse the anti-reason,
      anti-individualism,
      anti-freedom, anti-capitalist trends in today's
      culture. The major
      battleground in this fight for reason and capitalism
      is the
      educational institutions—high schools, and above all,
      the
      universities, where students learn the ideas that
      shape their lives.

      Ayn Rand's philosophy—known as Objectivism—holds that
      historical
      trends are the inescapable product of philosophy. To
      reverse the
      current political and economic trends in America and
      throughout the
      world requires a reversal of our society's fundamental
      philosophy."

      Ram


      --- In prezveepsenator@yahoogroups.com, Greg Cannon
      <gregcannon1@y...>
      wrote:
      > I have vague knowledge of Rand's writings and
      > philosophy. I think they both believed in what they
      > thought of as libertarianism, but had very different
      > views on what exactly that was. Goldman's allies
      were
      > nearly always on the left. She had many friends who
      > were socialist and communist, though she'd always
      > disagree with them on many things. I think the main
      > thing they agreed on was that private property
      should
      > be done away with, and that's one thing I'm sure
      Rand
      > would disagree with them on. Goldman also joined
      them
      > on more down-to-earth causes, like birth control.
      She
      > delivered lectures on birth control, and apparently
      > condoms were distributed at her lectures though
      birth
      > control devices like that weren't legal at the time.
      >
      > I don't know much about Rand's personal life. Was
      she
      > as passionate about her beliefs as Goldman was? What
      > was she like? For that matter, when did she live?
      >
      > --- Ram Lau <ramlau@y...> wrote:
      >
      > > Your mention of Emma Goldman reminds me Ayn Rand,
      > > surely a very
      > > different personality. (Ann Coulter of her
      > > generation?) I sometimes
      > > wonder if the Red Scare had anything to do with
      the
      > > imprisonment.
      > >
      > > Ram
      > >
      > >
      > > --- In prezveepsenator@yahoogroups.com, Greg
      Cannon
      > > <gregcannon1@y...>
      > > wrote:
      > > > I don't know the details of Debs' prosecution,
      but
      > > I
      > > > recall reading that Coolidge eventually pardoned
      > > him.
      > > > And Debs did still get about a million votes in
      > > 1920,
      > > > though he was still in jail.
      > > >
      > > > The best (and really only) book I've read on the
      > > use
      > > > of the Espionage Act was the second volume of
      Emma
      > > > Goldman's autobiography. As an immigrant, she
      was
      > > not
      > > > only jailed but also deported to the Soviet
      Union
      > > > (which she'd left in the 1880s) and never
      allowed
      > > to
      > > > return to America, all because she'd made
      speeches
      > > > against the war and against the draft. Thousands
      > > were
      > > > deported at the same time as her. I recall that
      > > her
      > > > anger was more directed at Wilson's attorney
      > > general
      > > > than at Wilson himself.
      > > >
      > > > --- THOMAS JOHNSON <AVRCRDNG@F...> wrote:
      > > > > I have read that Wilson was prone to use
      > > > > the threat of prosecution of sedition as a
      > > > > political
      > > > > tool and was not above using propaganda. I'm
      > > curious
      > > > > whether that it is reasonable to assume that
      > > Deb's
      > > > > incarceration under the Espionage Act was an
      > > attempt
      > > > > to lessen his impact on the 1920 race.
      > > > > I found the image of a weeping Taft being the
      > > last
      > > > > to
      > > > > leave TR's grave site pretty touching, and the
      > > fact
      > > > > that TR delivered a 50 minute speech,
      > > immediately
      > > > > after taking a bullet in the chest,
      astounding.
      > > > >
      > > > > Tom Johnson
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > --- Ram Lau <ramlau@y...> wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > ---------------------------------
      > > > > Because of his deep sense of fairness and
      > > equality
      > > > > that the original
      > > > > Republican Party embraced, Taft made a superb
      > > > > Supreme
      > > > > Court Chief
      > > > > Justice. I find it impossible to picture what
      > > kind
      > > > > of
      > > > > Justice Bush or
      > > > > Cheney would be, but I pray to God (and I only
      > > > > bother
      > > > > God when
      > > > > necessary) that a Justice Bush/Cheney will
      never
      > > > > happen to mankind.
      > > > >
      > > > > The 1912 election was a critical election. The
      > > > > Democratic Party for
      > > > > the first time experienced the progressive
      > > elements
      > > > > that Woodrow
      > > > > Wilson and William Jennings Bryan embraced,
      > > while
      > > > > the
      > > > > Republican Party
      > > > > began to turn from a center-left party to
      > > something
      > > > > totally different
      > > > > half a century later. Here is the transcript
      of
      > > the
      > > > > BookTV interview
      > > > > with the author of the book "1912: Wilson,
      > > > > Roosevelt,
      > > > > Taft, and Debs -
      > > > > The Election That Changed the Country," a very
      > > > > readable book:
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > >
      >
      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/prezveepsenator/message/192
      > > > >
      > > > > Ram
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > --- In prezveepsenator@yahoogroups.com, THOMAS
      > > > > JOHNSON
      > > > > <AVRCRDNG@F...>
      > > > > wrote:
      > > > > > Greg and Ram and all, thanks for the
      responses
      > > and
      > > > > > welcoming me into the group. I have
      > > entertained
      > > > > the
      > > > > > notion that perhaps the Taft presidency was
      > > the
      > > > > most
      > > > > > analogous to our current inhabitant. He was
      > > born
      > > > > into
      > > > > > political privilege, divisive, pious,
      > > > > > anti-environment, and a pawn of the party
      > > > > machinery
      > > > > > (TR claimed they stole the 1912 Republican
      > > > > > nomination). I also would have included a
      > > puppet
      > > > > of
      > > > > > big business, but after doing a little
      reading
      > > > > > tonight, he apparently did some
      > > trust-busting. He
      > > > > > seems to have had a pretty good
      > > post-presidency,
      > > > > > including serving on the US Supreme Court. I
      > > also
      > > > > find
      > > > > > it heartening that he and TR, who had been
      > > close
      > > > > > friends( Taft was TR's hand-picked
      successor),
      > > and
      > > > >
      > > > > > were able to have an amicable lunch together
      > > > > before
      > > > > > the latter's death , significant in that in

      > > the
      > > > > 1912
      > > > > > primaries terms such as 'fathead' and
      > > 'congenital
      > > > > > liar' were thrown at each other.
      > > > > > I caught a bit of the Carl Sferrazza
      Anthony
      > > > > Cspan
      > > > > > interview on the subject of Nellie Taft
      that
      > > Ram
      > > > > > alluded to and came away with feeling that
      > > she
      > > > > was
      > > > > > pretty cool..thanks Ram for the link to see
      > > the
      > > > > whole
      > > > > > segment and for the great Coolidge
      interview,
      > > the
      > > > > Debs
      > > > > > profile and for answering my question. I'm
      > > > > learning
      > > > > a
      > > > > > lot form you guys.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Tom Johnson
      > > > > >
      > > > > > --- Greg Cannon <gregcannon1@y...> wrote:
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > > ---------------------------------
      > > > > > I can't answer your question, Tom, though
      I'd
      > > also
      > > > > > like to know the answer. Do you or anyone
      here
      > > > > have
      > > > > > suggestions on books or websites to do with
      > > the
      > > > > Taft
      > > > > > administration? The Roosevelt biography I'm
      > > > > reading
      > > > > > has been mentioning Taft a lot, how Teddy
      > > began
      > > > > > sending him on important missions and taking
      > > Taft
      > > > > into
      > > > > > his confidence, at least as early as 1905
      > > though
      > > > > > probably earlier.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Roosevelt's occasional anti-trust
      prosecutions
      > > of
      > > > > > monopolies raised quite a storm in his first
      > > term,
      > > > > but
      > >
      > === message truncated ===




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