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970Re: [prezveepsenator] Re: An email I sent to DailyKos.com

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  • Greg Cannon
    Aug 15, 2005
      I have vague knowledge of Rand's writings and
      philosophy. I think they both believed in what they
      thought of as libertarianism, but had very different
      views on what exactly that was. Goldman's allies were
      nearly always on the left. She had many friends who
      were socialist and communist, though she'd always
      disagree with them on many things. I think the main
      thing they agreed on was that private property should
      be done away with, and that's one thing I'm sure Rand
      would disagree with them on. Goldman also joined them
      on more down-to-earth causes, like birth control. She
      delivered lectures on birth control, and apparently
      condoms were distributed at her lectures though birth
      control devices like that weren't legal at the time.

      I don't know much about Rand's personal life. Was she
      as passionate about her beliefs as Goldman was? What
      was she like? For that matter, when did she live?

      --- Ram Lau <ramlau@...> wrote:

      > Your mention of Emma Goldman reminds me Ayn Rand,
      > surely a very
      > different personality. (Ann Coulter of her
      > generation?) I sometimes
      > wonder if the Red Scare had anything to do with the
      > imprisonment.
      >
      > Ram
      >
      >
      > --- In prezveepsenator@yahoogroups.com, Greg Cannon
      > <gregcannon1@y...>
      > wrote:
      > > I don't know the details of Debs' prosecution, but
      > I
      > > recall reading that Coolidge eventually pardoned
      > him.
      > > And Debs did still get about a million votes in
      > 1920,
      > > though he was still in jail.
      > >
      > > The best (and really only) book I've read on the
      > use
      > > of the Espionage Act was the second volume of Emma
      > > Goldman's autobiography. As an immigrant, she was
      > not
      > > only jailed but also deported to the Soviet Union
      > > (which she'd left in the 1880s) and never allowed
      > to
      > > return to America, all because she'd made speeches
      > > against the war and against the draft. Thousands
      > were
      > > deported at the same time as her. I recall that
      > her
      > > anger was more directed at Wilson's attorney
      > general
      > > than at Wilson himself.
      > >
      > > --- THOMAS JOHNSON <AVRCRDNG@F...> wrote:
      > > > I have read that Wilson was prone to use
      > > > the threat of prosecution of sedition as a
      > > > political
      > > > tool and was not above using propaganda. I'm
      > curious
      > > > whether that it is reasonable to assume that
      > Deb's
      > > > incarceration under the Espionage Act was an
      > attempt
      > > > to lessen his impact on the 1920 race.
      > > > I found the image of a weeping Taft being the
      > last
      > > > to
      > > > leave TR's grave site pretty touching, and the
      > fact
      > > > that TR delivered a 50 minute speech,
      > immediately
      > > > after taking a bullet in the chest, astounding.
      > > >
      > > > Tom Johnson
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > --- Ram Lau <ramlau@y...> wrote:
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > ---------------------------------
      > > > Because of his deep sense of fairness and
      > equality
      > > > that the original
      > > > Republican Party embraced, Taft made a superb
      > > > Supreme
      > > > Court Chief
      > > > Justice. I find it impossible to picture what
      > kind
      > > > of
      > > > Justice Bush or
      > > > Cheney would be, but I pray to God (and I only
      > > > bother
      > > > God when
      > > > necessary) that a Justice Bush/Cheney will never
      > > > happen to mankind.
      > > >
      > > > The 1912 election was a critical election. The
      > > > Democratic Party for
      > > > the first time experienced the progressive
      > elements
      > > > that Woodrow
      > > > Wilson and William Jennings Bryan embraced,
      > while
      > > > the
      > > > Republican Party
      > > > began to turn from a center-left party to
      > something
      > > > totally different
      > > > half a century later. Here is the transcript of
      > the
      > > > BookTV interview
      > > > with the author of the book "1912: Wilson,
      > > > Roosevelt,
      > > > Taft, and Debs -
      > > > The Election That Changed the Country," a very
      > > > readable book:
      > > >
      > > >
      > >
      >
      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/prezveepsenator/message/192
      > > >
      > > > Ram
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > --- In prezveepsenator@yahoogroups.com, THOMAS
      > > > JOHNSON
      > > > <AVRCRDNG@F...>
      > > > wrote:
      > > > > Greg and Ram and all, thanks for the responses
      > and
      > > > > welcoming me into the group. I have
      > entertained
      > > > the
      > > > > notion that perhaps the Taft presidency was
      > the
      > > > most
      > > > > analogous to our current inhabitant. He was
      > born
      > > > into
      > > > > political privilege, divisive, pious,
      > > > > anti-environment, and a pawn of the party
      > > > machinery
      > > > > (TR claimed they stole the 1912 Republican
      > > > > nomination). I also would have included a
      > puppet
      > > > of
      > > > > big business, but after doing a little reading
      > > > > tonight, he apparently did some
      > trust-busting. He
      > > > > seems to have had a pretty good
      > post-presidency,
      > > > > including serving on the US Supreme Court. I
      > also
      > > > find
      > > > > it heartening that he and TR, who had been
      > close
      > > > > friends( Taft was TR's hand-picked successor),
      > and
      > > >
      > > > > were able to have an amicable lunch together
      > > > before
      > > > > the latter's death , significant in that in
      > the
      > > > 1912
      > > > > primaries terms such as 'fathead' and
      > 'congenital
      > > > > liar' were thrown at each other.
      > > > > I caught a bit of the Carl Sferrazza Anthony
      > > > Cspan
      > > > > interview on the subject of Nellie Taft that
      > Ram
      > > > > alluded to and came away with feeling that
      > she
      > > > was
      > > > > pretty cool..thanks Ram for the link to see
      > the
      > > > whole
      > > > > segment and for the great Coolidge interview,
      > the
      > > > Debs
      > > > > profile and for answering my question. I'm
      > > > learning
      > > > a
      > > > > lot form you guys.
      > > > >
      > > > > Tom Johnson
      > > > >
      > > > > --- Greg Cannon <gregcannon1@y...> wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > ---------------------------------
      > > > > I can't answer your question, Tom, though I'd
      > also
      > > > > like to know the answer. Do you or anyone here
      > > > have
      > > > > suggestions on books or websites to do with
      > the
      > > > Taft
      > > > > administration? The Roosevelt biography I'm
      > > > reading
      > > > > has been mentioning Taft a lot, how Teddy
      > began
      > > > > sending him on important missions and taking
      > Taft
      > > > into
      > > > > his confidence, at least as early as 1905
      > though
      > > > > probably earlier.
      > > > >
      > > > > Roosevelt's occasional anti-trust prosecutions
      > of
      > > > > monopolies raised quite a storm in his first
      > term,
      > > > but
      >
      === message truncated ===
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