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968Re: An email I sent to DailyKos.com

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  • Ram Lau
    Aug 15, 2005
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      Your mention of Emma Goldman reminds me Ayn Rand, surely a very
      different personality. (Ann Coulter of her generation?) I sometimes
      wonder if the Red Scare had anything to do with the imprisonment.

      Ram


      --- In prezveepsenator@yahoogroups.com, Greg Cannon <gregcannon1@y...>
      wrote:
      > I don't know the details of Debs' prosecution, but I
      > recall reading that Coolidge eventually pardoned him.
      > And Debs did still get about a million votes in 1920,
      > though he was still in jail.
      >
      > The best (and really only) book I've read on the use
      > of the Espionage Act was the second volume of Emma
      > Goldman's autobiography. As an immigrant, she was not
      > only jailed but also deported to the Soviet Union
      > (which she'd left in the 1880s) and never allowed to
      > return to America, all because she'd made speeches
      > against the war and against the draft. Thousands were
      > deported at the same time as her. I recall that her
      > anger was more directed at Wilson's attorney general
      > than at Wilson himself.
      >
      > --- THOMAS JOHNSON <AVRCRDNG@F...> wrote:
      > > I have read that Wilson was prone to use
      > > the threat of prosecution of sedition as a
      > > political
      > > tool and was not above using propaganda. I'm curious
      > > whether that it is reasonable to assume that Deb's
      > > incarceration under the Espionage Act was an attempt
      > > to lessen his impact on the 1920 race.
      > > I found the image of a weeping Taft being the last
      > > to
      > > leave TR's grave site pretty touching, and the fact
      > > that TR delivered a 50 minute speech, immediately
      > > after taking a bullet in the chest, astounding.
      > >
      > > Tom Johnson
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > --- Ram Lau <ramlau@y...> wrote:
      > >
      > >
      > > ---------------------------------
      > > Because of his deep sense of fairness and equality
      > > that the original
      > > Republican Party embraced, Taft made a superb
      > > Supreme
      > > Court Chief
      > > Justice. I find it impossible to picture what kind
      > > of
      > > Justice Bush or
      > > Cheney would be, but I pray to God (and I only
      > > bother
      > > God when
      > > necessary) that a Justice Bush/Cheney will never
      > > happen to mankind.
      > >
      > > The 1912 election was a critical election. The
      > > Democratic Party for
      > > the first time experienced the progressive elements
      > > that Woodrow
      > > Wilson and William Jennings Bryan embraced, while
      > > the
      > > Republican Party
      > > began to turn from a center-left party to something
      > > totally different
      > > half a century later. Here is the transcript of the
      > > BookTV interview
      > > with the author of the book "1912: Wilson,
      > > Roosevelt,
      > > Taft, and Debs -
      > > The Election That Changed the Country," a very
      > > readable book:
      > >
      > >
      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/prezveepsenator/message/192
      > >
      > > Ram
      > >
      > >
      > > --- In prezveepsenator@yahoogroups.com, THOMAS
      > > JOHNSON
      > > <AVRCRDNG@F...>
      > > wrote:
      > > > Greg and Ram and all, thanks for the responses and
      > > > welcoming me into the group. I have entertained
      > > the
      > > > notion that perhaps the Taft presidency was the
      > > most
      > > > analogous to our current inhabitant. He was born
      > > into
      > > > political privilege, divisive, pious,
      > > > anti-environment, and a pawn of the party
      > > machinery
      > > > (TR claimed they stole the 1912 Republican
      > > > nomination). I also would have included a puppet
      > > of
      > > > big business, but after doing a little reading
      > > > tonight, he apparently did some trust-busting. He
      > > > seems to have had a pretty good post-presidency,
      > > > including serving on the US Supreme Court. I also
      > > find
      > > > it heartening that he and TR, who had been close
      > > > friends( Taft was TR's hand-picked successor), and
      > >
      > > > were able to have an amicable lunch together
      > > before
      > > > the latter's death , significant in that in the
      > > 1912
      > > > primaries terms such as 'fathead' and 'congenital
      > > > liar' were thrown at each other.
      > > > I caught a bit of the Carl Sferrazza Anthony
      > > Cspan
      > > > interview on the subject of Nellie Taft that Ram
      > > > alluded to and came away with feeling that she
      > > was
      > > > pretty cool..thanks Ram for the link to see the
      > > whole
      > > > segment and for the great Coolidge interview, the
      > > Debs
      > > > profile and for answering my question. I'm
      > > learning
      > > a
      > > > lot form you guys.
      > > >
      > > > Tom Johnson
      > > >
      > > > --- Greg Cannon <gregcannon1@y...> wrote:
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > ---------------------------------
      > > > I can't answer your question, Tom, though I'd also
      > > > like to know the answer. Do you or anyone here
      > > have
      > > > suggestions on books or websites to do with the
      > > Taft
      > > > administration? The Roosevelt biography I'm
      > > reading
      > > > has been mentioning Taft a lot, how Teddy began
      > > > sending him on important missions and taking Taft
      > > into
      > > > his confidence, at least as early as 1905 though
      > > > probably earlier.
      > > >
      > > > Roosevelt's occasional anti-trust prosecutions of
      > > > monopolies raised quite a storm in his first term,
      > > but
      > > > he never went as far as the progressives wanted,
      > > and
      > > > he angered progressives by insisting on "open
      > > shops"
      > > > among government employees.
      > > >
      > > > I'd like to see a similar reaction by the
      > > progressive
      > > > movement now, as you mention, but how would that
      > > come
      > > > about? Right now progressives seem to be very much
      > > on
      > > > the defense.
      > > >
      > > > --- THOMAS JOHNSON <AVRCRDNG@F...> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > > I'm really enjoying the posting from this group
      > > and
      > > > > am
      > > > > curious if anyone thinks the progressive
      > > advances
      > > > > that
      > > > > were developing around 100 years ago, such as
      > > > > suffrage and shorter workdays, were due at
      > > least
      > > in
      > > > > part to a backlash against the robber barons and
      > > the
      > > > > Taft administration. It would give me hope if a
      > > > > pious,
      > > > > pro big business president such as Taft
      > > inspired
      > > > > the
      > > > > progressive movement to rebel and a similar
      > > > > reaction
      > > > > could repeat itself a century later.
      > > > >
      > > > > Tom Johnson
      > > > >
      > > > > --- Greg Cannon <gregcannon1@y...> wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > ---------------------------------
      > > > > I agree with you, but I fear that if taken too
      > > far
      > > > > then the party's message might become only
      > > marketing
      > > > > and packaging, with a great lack of substance.
      > > At
      > > > > the
      > > > > moment though the Democrats seem to be lacking
      > > on
      > > > > both
      > > > > accounts. They never fully committed to either
      > > > > opposing or supporting Bush's foreign policy and
      > > his
      > > > > policies on civil rights, and they failed
      > > miserably
      > > > > when they attempted to explain their ambivalence
      > > to
      > >
      > === message truncated ===
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