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967Re: [prezveepsenator] Re: An email I sent to DailyKos.com

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  • Greg Cannon
    Aug 15, 2005
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      I don't know the details of Debs' prosecution, but I
      recall reading that Coolidge eventually pardoned him.
      And Debs did still get about a million votes in 1920,
      though he was still in jail.

      The best (and really only) book I've read on the use
      of the Espionage Act was the second volume of Emma
      Goldman's autobiography. As an immigrant, she was not
      only jailed but also deported to the Soviet Union
      (which she'd left in the 1880s) and never allowed to
      return to America, all because she'd made speeches
      against the war and against the draft. Thousands were
      deported at the same time as her. I recall that her
      anger was more directed at Wilson's attorney general
      than at Wilson himself.

      --- THOMAS JOHNSON <AVRCRDNG@...> wrote:
      > I have read that Wilson was prone to use
      > the threat of prosecution of sedition as a
      > political
      > tool and was not above using propaganda. I'm curious
      > whether that it is reasonable to assume that Deb's
      > incarceration under the Espionage Act was an attempt
      > to lessen his impact on the 1920 race.
      > I found the image of a weeping Taft being the last
      > to
      > leave TR's grave site pretty touching, and the fact
      > that TR delivered a 50 minute speech, immediately
      > after taking a bullet in the chest, astounding.
      >
      > Tom Johnson
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > --- Ram Lau <ramlau@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > ---------------------------------
      > Because of his deep sense of fairness and equality
      > that the original
      > Republican Party embraced, Taft made a superb
      > Supreme
      > Court Chief
      > Justice. I find it impossible to picture what kind
      > of
      > Justice Bush or
      > Cheney would be, but I pray to God (and I only
      > bother
      > God when
      > necessary) that a Justice Bush/Cheney will never
      > happen to mankind.
      >
      > The 1912 election was a critical election. The
      > Democratic Party for
      > the first time experienced the progressive elements
      > that Woodrow
      > Wilson and William Jennings Bryan embraced, while
      > the
      > Republican Party
      > began to turn from a center-left party to something
      > totally different
      > half a century later. Here is the transcript of the
      > BookTV interview
      > with the author of the book "1912: Wilson,
      > Roosevelt,
      > Taft, and Debs -
      > The Election That Changed the Country," a very
      > readable book:
      >
      >
      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/prezveepsenator/message/192
      >
      > Ram
      >
      >
      > --- In prezveepsenator@yahoogroups.com, THOMAS
      > JOHNSON
      > <AVRCRDNG@F...>
      > wrote:
      > > Greg and Ram and all, thanks for the responses and
      > > welcoming me into the group. I have entertained
      > the
      > > notion that perhaps the Taft presidency was the
      > most
      > > analogous to our current inhabitant. He was born
      > into
      > > political privilege, divisive, pious,
      > > anti-environment, and a pawn of the party
      > machinery
      > > (TR claimed they stole the 1912 Republican
      > > nomination). I also would have included a puppet
      > of
      > > big business, but after doing a little reading
      > > tonight, he apparently did some trust-busting. He
      > > seems to have had a pretty good post-presidency,
      > > including serving on the US Supreme Court. I also
      > find
      > > it heartening that he and TR, who had been close
      > > friends( Taft was TR's hand-picked successor), and
      >
      > > were able to have an amicable lunch together
      > before
      > > the latter's death , significant in that in the
      > 1912
      > > primaries terms such as 'fathead' and 'congenital
      > > liar' were thrown at each other.
      > > I caught a bit of the Carl Sferrazza Anthony
      > Cspan
      > > interview on the subject of Nellie Taft that Ram
      > > alluded to and came away with feeling that she
      > was
      > > pretty cool..thanks Ram for the link to see the
      > whole
      > > segment and for the great Coolidge interview, the
      > Debs
      > > profile and for answering my question. I'm
      > learning
      > a
      > > lot form you guys.
      > >
      > > Tom Johnson
      > >
      > > --- Greg Cannon <gregcannon1@y...> wrote:
      > >
      > >
      > > ---------------------------------
      > > I can't answer your question, Tom, though I'd also
      > > like to know the answer. Do you or anyone here
      > have
      > > suggestions on books or websites to do with the
      > Taft
      > > administration? The Roosevelt biography I'm
      > reading
      > > has been mentioning Taft a lot, how Teddy began
      > > sending him on important missions and taking Taft
      > into
      > > his confidence, at least as early as 1905 though
      > > probably earlier.
      > >
      > > Roosevelt's occasional anti-trust prosecutions of
      > > monopolies raised quite a storm in his first term,
      > but
      > > he never went as far as the progressives wanted,
      > and
      > > he angered progressives by insisting on "open
      > shops"
      > > among government employees.
      > >
      > > I'd like to see a similar reaction by the
      > progressive
      > > movement now, as you mention, but how would that
      > come
      > > about? Right now progressives seem to be very much
      > on
      > > the defense.
      > >
      > > --- THOMAS JOHNSON <AVRCRDNG@F...> wrote:
      > >
      > > > I'm really enjoying the posting from this group
      > and
      > > > am
      > > > curious if anyone thinks the progressive
      > advances
      > > > that
      > > > were developing around 100 years ago, such as
      > > > suffrage and shorter workdays, were due at
      > least
      > in
      > > > part to a backlash against the robber barons and
      > the
      > > > Taft administration. It would give me hope if a
      > > > pious,
      > > > pro big business president such as Taft
      > inspired
      > > > the
      > > > progressive movement to rebel and a similar
      > > > reaction
      > > > could repeat itself a century later.
      > > >
      > > > Tom Johnson
      > > >
      > > > --- Greg Cannon <gregcannon1@y...> wrote:
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > ---------------------------------
      > > > I agree with you, but I fear that if taken too
      > far
      > > > then the party's message might become only
      > marketing
      > > > and packaging, with a great lack of substance.
      > At
      > > > the
      > > > moment though the Democrats seem to be lacking
      > on
      > > > both
      > > > accounts. They never fully committed to either
      > > > opposing or supporting Bush's foreign policy and
      > his
      > > > policies on civil rights, and they failed
      > miserably
      > > > when they attempted to explain their ambivalence
      > to
      >
      === message truncated ===
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