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1717Re: [prezveepsenator] Re: Al-Zarqawi story

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  • richard kelly
    Jun 9, 2006
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      Gregory:

      You're trying to put words in my mouth and as
      usual making it all about you. All I did was
      brought up a topic. On Charlie Rose last night
      they interviewed a specialist who said among
      other things, that the demise of Zarqawi might
      aid the new government, it will probably slow
      down the insurgency for a while, etc.

      All these other matters you bring up are your
      topics, not mine.


      Richard Kelly



      --- Gregory <greggolopry@...> wrote:

      > I really will not let you somehow infer that my
      > statements about the
      > insurgency are in any way related to my desire for
      > the Iraqi
      > government to succeed. Nor will I allow you to
      > somehow link my
      > opposition to the war to somehow thinking I do want
      > this whole mess
      > to end in a fashion that is BEST FOR THE IRAQIS.
      > Furthermore, I am
      > quite sure Charlie Rose did not state, or infer,
      > that anyone who
      > views the insurgency the way I did, or opposed the
      > war as I did,
      > wishes for the Iraqi government to fail.
      >
      > You seem to be under the illusion that Iraq was our
      > enemy after 9/11
      > and of course that is just another neo-con diversion
      > from the truth.
      > Or as my father, a World War II vet would say, that
      > is just "a damn
      > lie." The Iraq government was contained and
      > isolated. The real
      > enemies on 9/11 were allowed to escape because Bush
      > and Rummy did not
      > want to put the resources into the mountains of
      > Afghanistan to root
      > out the real terrorists. The tribes were authorized
      > to work in our
      > place and the result is that we are mired down in
      > Iraq in a war we
      > cannot and will not win, and Osma Bin Laden is still
      > free. (The Bush
      > White House calls this protecting America, BTW.)
      > This type of
      > adventure that Bush has taken us on are always
      > fraught with perils as
      > history shows and the anger in the Arab world over
      > this one is
      > totally justified. You might be the only person left
      > in America that
      > just doesn't get it. They have every reason to be
      > very angry and I
      > understand why. If a foreign army overran our
      > country you might
      > build a roadside bomb too. Though being liberated
      > from the GOP in
      > Washington sounds mighty good some days.
      >
      > I trust you are not under the illusion that we are
      > going to succeed
      > in forcing our type of government to operate in
      > Iraq. It just isn't
      > going to happen. They will shape the type of
      > government that meets
      > their culture and needs and we should adjust. At
      > some point we will
      > have to put a good face on it and wrap the deadly
      > mission up. I still
      > do not know how you tell a parent who lost a son or
      > daughter in this
      > war what they died for, but that is on the shoulders
      > of the neo-cons
      > and Bush who brought us to this point in our
      > national hisotry.
      >
      > Finally, the manner in which the U.S. neglected the
      > nationalistic
      > aspirations of Arabs after the fall of the Ottoman
      > Empire and the end
      > of WWII, the whole mess over the creation of Israel,
      > the way we
      > mishandled Iran's Mossadeq (spelling?) which
      > preceded the Shah in the
      > 1950's…the ridiculous policies we forced on the
      > Middle East in our
      > Cold war games….and the list could go on and on are
      > all extremely
      > valid reasons why we have a problem in the Middle
      > East.
      >
      > See, the problem isn't so much `them' as it is we as
      > citizens who
      > allow this to happen in our name.
      >
      >
      > Gregory
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > --- In prezveepsenator@yahoogroups.com, richard
      > kelly
      > <richwkelly@...> wrote:
      > >
      > > Gregory:
      > >
      > > Actually I got that from an interview last night
      > > on the Charlie Rose show, I dont have cable or
      > > watch Fox.
      > >
      > > As long as this insurgency goes on, our troops
      > > will stay in Iraq, so of course our goal ought to
      > > be to see the Iraqi government succeed.
      > >
      > > As far as worrying about making the Arabs angry,
      > > you do understand this is a war. No doubt D-Day
      > > made Hitler angry, so I guess we shouldn't have
      > > done it? As I understand it, and of course my
      > reading
      > > comprehension is suspect, the goal in a war is to
      > > defeat your enemy, not to worry about his
      > feelings.
      > >
      > > Cheers,
      > >
      > > Richard Kelly
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > --- Gregory <greggolopry@...> wrote:
      > >
      > > > Reading comprehension is a virtue. Where in
      > heck
      > > > did you come up
      > > > with the nonsense you just spewed? Your wording
      > is
      > > > ripped from FAUX
      > > > News and that is typical.
      > > >
      > > > I do not think that the news from Iraq
      > diminishes
      > > > the insurgency or
      > > > the bloodshed to either the Iraqis or the
      > Americans.
      > > > The
      > > > complexities of this matter seem to evade your
      > > > thinking. Perhaps you
      > > > might be better off reading about the
      > `successful'
      > > > invasions over the
      > > > centuries in the Middle East and then
      > commenting.
      > > > By knowing the
      > > > insurgency is strong and will continue does not
      > mean
      > > > I endorse it.
      > > > It just means I understand it.
      > > >
      > > > I know that conservatives like to live in an
      > alter
      > > > universe but as
      > > > for me I tend to keep my feet firmly planted and
      > > > view the world head-
      > > > on. I view the Middle East with warmness as I
      > love
      > > > it's rich history
      > > > and the evolution of ideas that were born there
      > and
      > > > now are worldwide
      > > > phenomenon's. I see your snappy little posts on
      > > > various Yahoo groups
      > > > as anti-Muslim and anti-Middle Eastern. I find
      > that
      > > > very sad indeed.
      > > >
      > > > Gregory
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > --- In prezveepsenator@yahoogroups.com, richard
      > > > kelly
      > > > <richwkelly@> wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > Gregory:
      > > > >
      > > > > If it weakens the insurgency and reduces the
      > > > number
      > > > > of civilians being slaughtered, and maybe
      > helps
      > > > > strengthen the government of Iraq, wouldn't
      > that
      > > > > be worthwhile, or do you want to insurgency to
      > > > > succeed?
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > Richard Kelly
      > > > >
      > > > > --- Gregory <greggolopry@> wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > > Actually Richard, it is not that big of a
      > day.
      > > > I
      > > > > > have long held that
      >
      === message truncated ===


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