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Ethnic Groups (was: [prbytes] RE: [PRMindshare] XP - Swine Flu - Probably not, but how to be prepared, just in case ...

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  • Ned Barnett
    Ana - you have missed a major group or two (or three or four) of people who consider themselves ethnic and expect to be treated (and marketed to) as such, or
    Message 1 of 22 , Apr 30, 2009
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      Ana - you have missed a major group or two (or three or four) of people who
      consider themselves "ethnic" and expect to be treated (and marketed to) as
      such, or who refuse to be pigeon-holed into your narrow categories of
      ethnicity.



      I think, as Americans, we spend entirely too much time catering to the
      self-imposed sensitivities (and in some cases, hyper-sensitivities) of those
      who consider being "ethnic" important (or perhaps overridingly important).
      To me, having grown up in a bitterly-divided ethnic household (between my
      parents and grandparents we had three ethnicities and four nationalities),
      you're either an American or you're not (and if you're not, you're either
      here legally or illegally). Anything else and you're just letting
      "feelings" get in the way of facts, and - by embracing an over-arching
      ethnicity - you're limiting your ability to function in America as an
      American.



      I say this, as I noted, having been raised in a household by a mother born
      into an ethnic ghetto, whose parents were born into two very different
      ethnic ghettos (my grandparents, except for the suicide thing, were a real
      Romeo-and-Juliet couple, and the surviving inlaws still can't stand one
      another, solely because of ethnic hatreds still too common between
      Irish-Catholics and Italian Catholics in Rust-Belt Cleveland). If you've
      never tried to grow up (and grow out of) Little Italy or Little Ireland in
      the Midwestern Rust Belt, then it may be hard to picture those folks as
      "ethnic" - but I guarantee you that the residents of Little Italy/Youngstown
      or Little Ireland/Cleveland took that VERY SERIOUSLY during my childhood
      (and much more intensely in my parents and grandparents growing-up lives).



      However, all this "stuff about ethnicity and discrimination and segregation
      and the "class" being more important than the "individual" is all different
      when it comes to marketing. When you're selling to someone, it only makes
      sense to cater to their self-imposed prejudices and self-images. However,
      if we're going to get particular about ethnic groups for marketing purposes,
      I would offer the following:



      1. Having worked extensively with the Cuban, Puerto Rican and
      Argentinian markets, none of them would want to be considered to be "Latino"
      or "Hispanic" - both of which to them equate to Mexican/Central American,
      while they see themselves as "Spanish-Speaking Europeans" (during the
      Alvarez social altercations [aka "riots"] in the mid-80s, I was told by
      Cuban business partners, who were not kidding, that the quickest way for me
      as an Anglo to get knifed was to refer to a Cuban as a Mexican, or a Latino,
      or a Hispanic). I spent a lot of time marketing to that marketplace (and
      continue to do so), and have not found any increased willingness to be
      considered "Latino" or "Hispanic" among Cuban-Americans.



      2. This distinction was reinforced to me by a New York City Puerto
      Rican who served in the Reagan administration (as Deputy Drug Czar) who also
      refused to be considered a "Latino" or "Hispanic" - but not because he was a
      "Spanish-Speaking European" but for the reason that he was fully
      "Americanized" and wanted to be treated the same as other Americans (for
      instance, when interviewed on Telemundo, he refused to speak in Spanish - a
      surprise to me, as I had to scramble to find a translator for the interview
      I set up for him).



      3. Orthodox Jews (some would say all Jews) are certainly an ethnic
      group all unto themselves; in Miami, they are marketed to as a separate
      ethnic group, quite effectively. For instance, I marketed an "Orthodox"
      hospital in North Miami Beach, even hiring an Orthodox Rabbi on my marketing
      department team, and took a dying-on-the-vine hospital [occupancy 59 out of
      350 beds the day I took over marketing] and filled up "Kosher" units and
      filled the hospital on the Sabbath because all staff were trained and
      required to respect, honor and respond to Orthodox rules for the Sabbath.



      4. If you've ever been to the Detroit area, especially Dearborn, you
      know that Arabic Muslims consider themselves an ethnic minority, and if you
      have ever dealt with CAIR, you know the risk you run when you do NOT treat
      them as an ethnic minority (having marketed an Egyptian-born
      invitro-fertilization specialist in both Dearborn and Flint, I know this
      from very first-hand experience)



      5. When it comes to Asians, you cannot lump Chinese, Koreans and
      Japanese with Indians, Bangladeshi and Pakistani markets - they may all be
      from "Asia" but it's the biggest continent and reflect vastly different
      cultures (if you don't believe me, go to Chinatown and ask for curry, or go
      to India-town and ask for mu-shu pork)



      6. I also think that President Obama - the son of an African
      immigrant, instead of the descendent of slaves - makes it clear that there
      is no ethnicity distinction worth mentioning between African-Americans and
      African Immigrants). Colin Powell and my own future daughter-in-law make it
      clear that Jamaican-descent is, once you're born into America, is irrelevant
      - you're still "African-American." Finally, as both Obama and my future
      daughter-in-law show, someone who is half-African American and half white
      American can freely choose their ethnicity, regardless of their genetic
      heritage (which further calls into question the whole ethnicity thing in my
      opinion). One - raised in a white household, has chosen to be "black,"
      while the other - raised in a black household - has chosen to be "white."
      Both are Americans.



      I could go on. Ask the Kurdish-American or the Armenian-Americans if they
      are "ethnic" . then step back, especially if you want to lump them with
      "white" (though they're a lot closer to real "Caucasians" than are most
      American whites).



      My point (and I do have one)? While ethnic subdivisions are often useful
      for marketing purposes, they get in the way of integrating people into the
      American culture. In addition, those who are over-sensitive (to
      hyper-sensitive) about their ethnicity not only create problems for
      themselves and others, but unless they understand the differences between
      Samoans and Tongans (and can respect those differences), and who acknowledge
      all the other ethnicities that are important to self-defined ethnic
      minorities in America are asking for trouble.



      And if the term "Mexican Flu" hare-lips someone who has no problem referring
      to "Hong Kong Flu," "Spanish Flu" or "Asian Flu," they might want to look at
      their own prejudices and sensitivities. As Spock said to Savik, "Sauce for
      the Goose, Mr. Savik." Unless, of course, they're marketing flu-shots to
      self-defined Latinos or Hispanics, in which case cultural sensitivity is
      important and appropriate.



      Or so it seems to me.


      Ned



      Ned Barnett, APR

      Marketing/PR Fellow, American Hospital Association



      Barnett Marketing Communications

      420 N. Nellis Blvd. A3-276

      Las Vegas NV 89110



      702-696-1200 - ned@...

      http://www.barnettmarcom.com



      From: prbytes@yahoogroups.com [mailto:prbytes@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
      ana lydia ochoa
      Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 4:31 PM
      To: prbytes@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [prbytes] RE: [PRMindshare] XP - Swine Flu - Probably not, but
      how to be prepared, just in case ...








      For Marketing/PR/Advertising purposes, ethnic groups are categorized as
      follows:

      Latino/Hispanic (also broken down by Spanish speaking, bilingual, new
      immigrants, Portuguese speaking)
      Asian (can also be broken down further by South Asian, Pacific Islanders,
      etc.)
      African American (not to be confused with African immigrants or black
      Latinos)

      The general market, or non-ethnic are categorized as:

      White/Anglo-Saxon
      Immigrated to US 3+ generations past (at this point, most immigrants,
      whether Hispanic or from European countries are marketed all of the same)

      Research has shown that by being aware of the cultural nuances of the
      various ethnic groups we can prevent "foot in mouth" syndrome. :)

      --
      Ana Lydia Ochoa
      padma media & marketing, Inc.
      o.310.598.5735
      c.310.403.5299

      Twitter.com/LatinaPRpro
      LinkedIn.com/AnaLydiaOchoa
      Facebook.com/pages/Los-Angeles-CA/padma-media-marketing/8757051745

      ________________________________
      From: Rich <rarostron@... <mailto:rarostron%40yahoo.com> >
      To: prbytes@yahoogroups.com <mailto:prbytes%40yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 12:45:10 PM
      Subject: Re: [prbytes] RE: [PRMindshare] XP - Swine Flu - Probably not, but
      how to be prepared, just in case ...

      Just out of curiosity, what is a non ethnic group? Don't we all have our own
      particular ethnicity? I think Ned's point is that, were a similar disease to
      take root in the U.S., it might be named the US or American flu. If it
      started in New York, we'd call it the New York flu, or, if it started in
      Chicago, the Chicago flu (I use the example of Chicago because I'm from the
      Chicago area and wouldn't want anyone from New York to think that I'm
      dissing them) as opposed to the Hong Kong flu. If something like this starts
      in Chicago, I'll be far more concerned about not catching the disease, or
      recovering if I do, than in worrying about what they call it. I think we
      have a choice to stretch our minds to see racial/ethnic prejudice, if that's
      what we're inclined to see. Some members of the general public are also so
      inclined. Maybe we should try to set examples that help them out of the
      woods.

      ____________ _________ _________ __
      From: ana lydia ochoa <analydiaochoa@ yahoo.com>
      To: prbytes@yahoogroups .com
      Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 2:12:44 PM
      Subject: Re: [prbytes] RE: [PRMindshare] XP - Swine Flu - Probably not, but
      how to be prepared, just in case ...

      Ned,

      You bring up an issue that comes up time and time again - Hispanic, Asian
      (or any other ethnic group) will find racism in comments or names of
      problems (i.e. Mexican Flu).

      Non-ethnic people will not.

      I won't try to change your mind (or those that don't find it offensive).
      Just know, that for a large group of ethnic (Mexican at that) folks, others
      calling this pandemic flu "Mexican Flu" has allowed many (non ethnic folk)
      to use that against immigrants, etc.

      Case in point - just follow the Twitter comments on the subject.

      However, this is not PR and the topic is probably left alone at this point.

      --
      Ana Lydia Ochoa
      padma media & marketing, Inc.
      o.310.598.5735
      c.310.403.5299

      Twitter.com/ LatinaPRpro
      LinkedIn.com/ AnaLydiaOchoa
      Facebook.com/ pages/Los- Angeles-CA/ padma-media- marketing/ 8757051745

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • ana lydia ochoa
      Ned, You missed my second email on the topic listing the missing ethnic groups categorized for both marketing and PR purposes. I have spoken and provided
      Message 2 of 22 , May 1, 2009
      • 0 Attachment
        Ned,

        You missed my second email on the topic listing the missing ethnic groups categorized for both marketing and PR purposes.

        I have spoken and provided insight extensively on the subject of ethnic outreach and have many years experience in dealing with Fortune 500 companies needed my expertise, just as you do. For that reason, I won't comment or elaborate on (possible) short-comings of your below referenced examples.

        In terms of your personal feelings and background, we should probably leave it out of a professional PR board. Otherwise, it could turn quite ugly and offend many different folks (As various of your comments below could be misinterpreted).

        One key thing to take-away by other list members is that ethnic PR is a must and it's usually done best by professionals of the same ethnic background. I.e.

        RL Public Relations - former employer, owned by an Argentinean woman who embraces her Mexican-American and South American Staff. This agency has won over key Fortune 500 companies over Anglo-run general market firms claiming to do Hispanic PR

        VPE PR - Former employer and mentors, owned by two Chicano's, staff is of various Hispanic nationalities and reaches out the Hispanic market.

        LaGrant - owned by an African American which does African American and Hispanic PR/Advertising

        And of course padma, who has beat-out HUGE NYC agencies run by non-Latinos claiming to know the culture and falling flat on their face when we could do much more with much less (Sorry for the slight self promotion)

        Happy Friday,
        --
        Ana Lydia Ochoa
        padma media & marketing, Inc.
        o.310.598.5735
        c.310.403.5299

        Twitter.com/LatinaPRpro
        LinkedIn.com/AnaLydiaOchoa
        Facebook.com/pages/Los-Angeles-CA/padma-media-marketing/8757051745








        ________________________________
        From: Ned Barnett <ned@...>
        To: prbytes@yahoogroups.com
        Cc: PRMindshare@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 8:14:59 PM
        Subject: Ethnic Groups (was: [prbytes] RE: [PRMindshare] XP - Swine Flu - Probably not, but how to be prepared, just in case ...





        Ana - you have missed a major group or two (or three or four) of people who
        consider themselves "ethnic" and expect to be treated (and marketed to) as
        such, or who refuse to be pigeon-holed into your narrow categories of
        ethnicity.

        I think, as Americans, we spend entirely too much time catering to the
        self-imposed sensitivities (and in some cases, hyper-sensitivities ) of those
        who consider being "ethnic" important (or perhaps overridingly important).
        To me, having grown up in a bitterly-divided ethnic household (between my
        parents and grandparents we had three ethnicities and four nationalities) ,
        you're either an American or you're not (and if you're not, you're either
        here legally or illegally). Anything else and you're just letting
        "feelings" get in the way of facts, and - by embracing an over-arching
        ethnicity - you're limiting your ability to function in America as an
        American.

        I say this, as I noted, having been raised in a household by a mother born
        into an ethnic ghetto, whose parents were born into two very different
        ethnic ghettos (my grandparents, except for the suicide thing, were a real
        Romeo-and-Juliet couple, and the surviving inlaws still can't stand one
        another, solely because of ethnic hatreds still too common between
        Irish-Catholics and Italian Catholics in Rust-Belt Cleveland). If you've
        never tried to grow up (and grow out of) Little Italy or Little Ireland in
        the Midwestern Rust Belt, then it may be hard to picture those folks as
        "ethnic" - but I guarantee you that the residents of Little Italy/Youngstown
        or Little Ireland/Cleveland took that VERY SERIOUSLY during my childhood
        (and much more intensely in my parents and grandparents growing-up lives).

        However, all this "stuff about ethnicity and discrimination and segregation
        and the "class" being more important than the "individual" is all different
        when it comes to marketing. When you're selling to someone, it only makes
        sense to cater to their self-imposed prejudices and self-images. However,
        if we're going to get particular about ethnic groups for marketing purposes,
        I would offer the following:

        1. Having worked extensively with the Cuban, Puerto Rican and
        Argentinian markets, none of them would want to be considered to be "Latino"
        or "Hispanic" - both of which to them equate to Mexican/Central American,
        while they see themselves as "Spanish-Speaking Europeans" (during the
        Alvarez social altercations [aka "riots"] in the mid-80s, I was told by
        Cuban business partners, who were not kidding, that the quickest way for me
        as an Anglo to get knifed was to refer to a Cuban as a Mexican, or a Latino,
        or a Hispanic). I spent a lot of time marketing to that marketplace (and
        continue to do so), and have not found any increased willingness to be
        considered "Latino" or "Hispanic" among Cuban-Americans.

        2. This distinction was reinforced to me by a New York City Puerto
        Rican who served in the Reagan administration (as Deputy Drug Czar) who also
        refused to be considered a "Latino" or "Hispanic" - but not because he was a
        "Spanish-Speaking European" but for the reason that he was fully
        "Americanized" and wanted to be treated the same as other Americans (for
        instance, when interviewed on Telemundo, he refused to speak in Spanish - a
        surprise to me, as I had to scramble to find a translator for the interview
        I set up for him).

        3. Orthodox Jews (some would say all Jews) are certainly an ethnic
        group all unto themselves; in Miami, they are marketed to as a separate
        ethnic group, quite effectively. For instance, I marketed an "Orthodox"
        hospital in North Miami Beach, even hiring an Orthodox Rabbi on my marketing
        department team, and took a dying-on-the- vine hospital [occupancy 59 out of
        350 beds the day I took over marketing] and filled up "Kosher" units and
        filled the hospital on the Sabbath because all staff were trained and
        required to respect, honor and respond to Orthodox rules for the Sabbath.

        4. If you've ever been to the Detroit area, especially Dearborn, you
        know that Arabic Muslims consider themselves an ethnic minority, and if you
        have ever dealt with CAIR, you know the risk you run when you do NOT treat
        them as an ethnic minority (having marketed an Egyptian-born
        invitro-fertilizati on specialist in both Dearborn and Flint, I know this
        from very first-hand experience)

        5. When it comes to Asians, you cannot lump Chinese, Koreans and
        Japanese with Indians, Bangladeshi and Pakistani markets - they may all be
        from "Asia" but it's the biggest continent and reflect vastly different
        cultures (if you don't believe me, go to Chinatown and ask for curry, or go
        to India-town and ask for mu-shu pork)

        6. I also think that President Obama - the son of an African
        immigrant, instead of the descendent of slaves - makes it clear that there
        is no ethnicity distinction worth mentioning between African-Americans and
        African Immigrants). Colin Powell and my own future daughter-in- law make it
        clear that Jamaican-descent is, once you're born into America, is irrelevant
        - you're still "African-American. " Finally, as both Obama and my future
        daughter-in- law show, someone who is half-African American and half white
        American can freely choose their ethnicity, regardless of their genetic
        heritage (which further calls into question the whole ethnicity thing in my
        opinion). One - raised in a white household, has chosen to be "black,"
        while the other - raised in a black household - has chosen to be "white."
        Both are Americans.

        I could go on. Ask the Kurdish-American or the Armenian-Americans if they
        are "ethnic" . then step back, especially if you want to lump them with
        "white" (though they're a lot closer to real "Caucasians" than are most
        American whites).

        My point (and I do have one)? While ethnic subdivisions are often useful
        for marketing purposes, they get in the way of integrating people into the
        American culture. In addition, those who are over-sensitive (to
        hyper-sensitive) about their ethnicity not only create problems for
        themselves and others, but unless they understand the differences between
        Samoans and Tongans (and can respect those differences) , and who acknowledge
        all the other ethnicities that are important to self-defined ethnic
        minorities in America are asking for trouble.

        And if the term "Mexican Flu" hare-lips someone who has no problem referring
        to "Hong Kong Flu," "Spanish Flu" or "Asian Flu," they might want to look at
        their own prejudices and sensitivities. As Spock said to Savik, "Sauce for
        the Goose, Mr. Savik." Unless, of course, they're marketing flu-shots to
        self-defined Latinos or Hispanics, in which case cultural sensitivity is
        important and appropriate.

        Or so it seems to me.

        Ned

        Ned Barnett, APR

        Marketing/PR Fellow, American Hospital Association

        Barnett Marketing Communications

        420 N. Nellis Blvd. A3-276

        Las Vegas NV 89110

        702-696-1200 - ned@barnettmarcom. com

        http://www.barnettmarcom.com

        From: prbytes@yahoogroups .com [mailto:prbytes@yahoogroups .com] On Behalf Of
        ana lydia ochoa
        Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 4:31 PM
        To: prbytes@yahoogroups .com
        Subject: Re: [prbytes] RE: [PRMindshare] XP - Swine Flu - Probably not, but
        how to be prepared, just in case ...

        For Marketing/PR/ Advertising purposes, ethnic groups are categorized as
        follows:

        Latino/Hispanic (also broken down by Spanish speaking, bilingual, new
        immigrants, Portuguese speaking)
        Asian (can also be broken down further by South Asian, Pacific Islanders,
        etc.)
        African American (not to be confused with African immigrants or black
        Latinos)

        The general market, or non-ethnic are categorized as:

        White/Anglo- Saxon
        Immigrated to US 3+ generations past (at this point, most immigrants,
        whether Hispanic or from European countries are marketed all of the same)

        Research has shown that by being aware of the cultural nuances of the
        various ethnic groups we can prevent "foot in mouth" syndrome. :)

        --
        Ana Lydia Ochoa
        padma media & marketing, Inc.
        o.310.598.5735
        c.310.403.5299

        Twitter.com/ LatinaPRpro
        LinkedIn.com/ AnaLydiaOchoa
        Facebook.com/ pages/Los- Angeles-CA/ padma-media- marketing/ 8757051745

        ____________ _________ _________ __
        From: Rich <rarostron@yahoo. com <mailto:rarostron% 40yahoo.com> >
        To: prbytes@yahoogroups .com <mailto:prbytes% 40yahoogroups. com>
        Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 12:45:10 PM
        Subject: Re: [prbytes] RE: [PRMindshare] XP - Swine Flu - Probably not, but
        how to be prepared, just in case ...

        Just out of curiosity, what is a non ethnic group? Don't we all have our own
        particular ethnicity? I think Ned's point is that, were a similar disease to
        take root in the U.S., it might be named the US or American flu. If it
        started in New York, we'd call it the New York flu, or, if it started in
        Chicago, the Chicago flu (I use the example of Chicago because I'm from the
        Chicago area and wouldn't want anyone from New York to think that I'm
        dissing them) as opposed to the Hong Kong flu. If something like this starts
        in Chicago, I'll be far more concerned about not catching the disease, or
        recovering if I do, than in worrying about what they call it. I think we
        have a choice to stretch our minds to see racial/ethnic prejudice, if that's
        what we're inclined to see. Some members of the general public are also so
        inclined. Maybe we should try to set examples that help them out of the
        woods.

        ____________ _________ _________ __
        From: ana lydia ochoa <analydiaochoa@ yahoo.com>
        To: prbytes@yahoogroups .com
        Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 2:12:44 PM
        Subject: Re: [prbytes] RE: [PRMindshare] XP - Swine Flu - Probably not, but
        how to be prepared, just in case ...

        Ned,

        You bring up an issue that comes up time and time again - Hispanic, Asian
        (or any other ethnic group) will find racism in comments or names of
        problems (i.e. Mexican Flu).

        Non-ethnic people will not.

        I won't try to change your mind (or those that don't find it offensive).
        Just know, that for a large group of ethnic (Mexican at that) folks, others
        calling this pandemic flu "Mexican Flu" has allowed many (non ethnic folk)
        to use that against immigrants, etc.

        Case in point - just follow the Twitter comments on the subject.

        However, this is not PR and the topic is probably left alone at this point.

        --
        Ana Lydia Ochoa
        padma media & marketing, Inc.
        o.310.598.5735
        c.310.403.5299

        Twitter.com/ LatinaPRpro
        LinkedIn.com/ AnaLydiaOchoa
        Facebook.com/ pages/Los- Angeles-CA/ padma-media- marketing/ 8757051745

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Ned Barnett
        Ana Without intending to, you hit on a professional PR issue that I have given a great deal of thought to since the late 60s, back when I was active in the
        Message 3 of 22 , May 1, 2009
        • 0 Attachment
          Ana



          Without intending to, you hit on a professional PR issue that I have given a
          great deal of thought to since the late '60s, back when I was active in the
          Civil Rights movement in the Deep South (Georgia), and which has had a
          profound carry-over into my professional career. That is the issue of
          "diversity" in public relations - and especially the kind of diversity in
          which only those of a certain ethnic persuasion can provide PR services for
          others of that same ethnic persuasion (or at least, that those of a given
          ethnic persuasion are uniquely well-qualified - or profoundly
          better-qualified - to provide PR services to those of the same ethnic
          persuasion) - or, as you said, services that as you said, are "best done by
          professionals of the same ethnic background ."



          I wrote a blog on this in 2006, and I've appended it to the bottom of this
          email (below your comments). I invite you to read it, as it might challenge
          some of your beliefs and get you to look at PR from a broader and more
          inclusive perspective, rather than ghetto-izing PR by insisting that only
          those of a given ethnicity can do the best job for clients who share that
          ethnicity.



          To me, though I do not believe you intended it to be that way, that
          statement (and the belief behind it) is blatantly racist, elitist,
          discriminatory and a throwback to the discredited segregationist
          "separate-but-equal" (that the Supreme Court wisely ruled could never be
          equal) approach to life and work in America.


          Rosa Parks risked her life to ride in the front of the bus; others risked
          their lives to win the right to sit at lunch counters and be served, or to
          buy a house where they wanted to live (instead of where others told them to
          live), or to do business with anyone they chose, regardless of skin color,
          national origin, religious belief (or lack thereof) or ethnicity. To claim
          at this late date, after a half-century of struggle for equality, that those
          who share an ethnicity are in a position to provide PR services, as you
          said, are "best done by professionals of the same ethnic background ."



          My own career is based on the idea that the best PR person can provide the
          best PR services - which is why I've been able to provide highly-successful
          PR services to ethnically-focused businesses and minority-ethnic individuals
          because, in those particular instances, I was the best PR person available
          to do the job. Like a great many others in our field (I can't speak for
          them, but compared to some, I'm an amateur at this), I've won national
          awards for profoundly effective PR programs for:



          . A Cuban-American software expert who has built two separate and
          parallel careers - one serving the Cuban-American (and
          Caribbean/Latin-American) markets, and one serving the majority Anglo market
          throughout North America - I got him business-building coverage in both
          Anglo/mainstream business publications and specialty Spanish-language media
          (not because I speak Spanish - because I don't; and not because I'm
          Cuban-American - because I'm not) because I understood his business, his
          market opportunity, and capitalized on both.



          . A Hispanic (non-Cuban) research physician who discovered something
          profoundly significant about cocaine addiction among teens - I got him on
          the Today Show (and in many US publications) again without speaking Spanish.



          . A black-owned and black-focused website on racial healing (aimed
          at blacks, not whites) which is VERY happy with my work



          . A black independent movie producer who put together an "indie"
          film on racial healing (you may see a pattern in my career here) that opened
          at the Fox in Atlanta (as a charity for the King Foundation and the Carter
          Center) that was also shown in "ethnic" theater premiers in the top-ten
          black-population metro markets, and which became the basis for Sunday School
          programs in a variety of denominations (including offering an award for the
          best sermons preached on the subject matter of the film)



          . A "black" hospital and medical school in Nashville that trained 40
          percent of all black physicians in America (at that time - mid-80s) - a
          campaign that generated $29 million dollars in donations (which, by the way,
          saved the hospital and medical college from closing) while dramatically
          raising the visibility and credibility of the college and hospital



          . The Martin Luther King Jr. Memorial Hospital in Miami, which I
          took from a 26-bed hospital and transformed (as project manager, as well as
          PR director) into a 125-bed brand-new hospital located on a Cuban University
          Campus (helping to bring together the black and Cuban communities in the
          wake of the Alvarez riots in the mid-80s), while securing a teaching
          hospital to take over the old 26-bed hospital as a free clinic in one of the
          poorer black communities in Miami (Liberty City) - the program was
          successful financially, in human terms, and it was hugely successful in PR
          terms by several judgments



          . An Egyptian-born physician in a community that had almost no
          Muslims or Arabs (I know Egyptians aren't "quite" Arabs, but that's how he
          was seen in that community) - his practice soared as I was able to offset
          his ethnicity by virtue of his profound medical expertise



          . The first woman plastic surgeon to become President of the Georgia
          Society of Plastic and Reconstructive Surgeons (I promoted her with the
          intent of helping her win this coveted post)



          . A Vietnamese "boat-person" refugee who became the first Asian-born
          woman to head up a major Silicon Valley software (Linux) company - I got her
          coverage in literally every North American business trade publication (we
          had three days of non-stop, ten-hour-per-day, 15-minute interviews - with
          five minutes between them) by understanding what the market wanted to hear
          about this woman, her company and her distinctive background (in part, I did
          this by staging the interviews through Beijing, holding the announcement
          until I could tell the reporters that we'd set up satellite phone interviews
          with her in Beijing while she was negotiating to become the "official
          operating system of the 2008 Olympics"). Oddly, I'm neither a woman nor
          Vietnamese, but I still blew the market apart with this intense and
          intensely positive coverage



          . Early in my career, I won several national design awards from CASE
          and other educationally-based professional societies for a brochure and a PR
          campaign designed to recruit non-traditional students into technical career
          paths (women into heavy equipment operation, men into nursing and office
          management, black women into nuclear engineering technology, etc.) - MIT
          later "borrowed" my campaign, lock, stock and barrel (I've always said that
          plagiarism is the sincerest form of flattery) for their own non-traditional
          student recruiting program



          I could go on, and on, and on, but let me just say this: In addition to
          having had "ethnic" clients here in the US, I've had clients in Dubai, the
          PRC, Belarus, Colombia, India, Nigeria - an author who named me in his
          book-dedication - London, South Africa, Canada, French Canada, Romania and a
          fair number of other places - and to an American raised in the Deep South,
          all of those places are also "ethnic" (hell, I wrote a brochure published in
          both Russian and Belarussian - neither of which I read - and I produced an
          ad campaign (print, TV) in Spanish that won national "Hispanic" media awards
          for creativity and effectiveness, and as I've said, I don't read or speak
          Spanish).



          And I'm not alone - I can best speak from my own example, but I know many PR
          professionals who've done exceptionally well with ethnic groups that they
          are not part of. I've also seen PR people who consider themselves "ethnic"
          who've done spectacularly in the mainstream market, or in working
          cross-ethnicity.



          Ana - I find the notion that only Hispanics can best promote Hispanics, or
          only Blacks can best promote Blacks, as counter-productive to PR and to the
          people who espouse it. They generally don't see that (as noted earlier),
          it's Sauce for the Goose, Mr. Savik (i.e., that if you can ghetto-ize PR for
          ethnic minorities, then by the same logic, only whites should be able to
          promote "white" or mainstream companies . and that is both offensive and
          patently untrue . it is also destructive in a way that only those who can
          remember Jim Crow might really be able to understand). I don't believe
          that's your intent, but your position is still segregationist, racist,
          exclusive-ist and lots of other "ists" that America has worked hard for half
          a century to put behind us.



          I have no doubt that there are profoundly good ethnic PR agencies who've
          done remarkable work in their own ethnic communities - I've hired some, and
          partnered with others, and I've seen what they can do. But in every case -
          EVERY CASE - they were effective NOT because they were ethnic (and therefore
          better understood the ethnicity), but because they were superior PR
          professionals at the top of their game. Sadly, some agencies play on their
          ethnicity to land contracts, playing on racism (and reverse racism) and
          other less noble sentiments to win contracts because of their race or
          ethnicity, instead of because of their superior performance. But when the
          playing field is level, the best PR person will always produce and deliver
          the best PR campaign, regardless of his/her ethnicity (and regardless of the
          client's ethnic orientation).







          Ned Barnett, APR

          Marketing/PR Fellow, American Hospital Association



          Barnett Marketing Communications

          420 N. Nellis Blvd. A3-276

          Las Vegas NV 89110



          702-696-1200 - ned@...

          http://www.barnettmarcom.com



          From: prbytes@yahoogroups.com [mailto:prbytes@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
          ana lydia ochoa
          Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 4:04 PM
          To: prbytes@yahoogroups.com
          Cc: PRMindshare@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: Ethnic Groups (was: [prbytes] RE: [PRMindshare] XP - Swine Flu
          - Probably not, but how to be prepared, just in case ...








          Ned,

          You missed my second email on the topic listing the missing ethnic groups
          categorized for both marketing and PR purposes.

          I have spoken and provided insight extensively on the subject of ethnic
          outreach and have many years experience in dealing with Fortune 500
          companies needed my expertise, just as you do. For that reason, I won't
          comment or elaborate on (possible) short-comings of your below referenced
          examples.

          In terms of your personal feelings and background, we should probably leave
          it out of a professional PR board. Otherwise, it could turn quite ugly and
          offend many different folks (As various of your comments below could be
          misinterpreted).

          One key thing to take-away by other list members is that ethnic PR is a must
          and it's usually done best by professionals of the same ethnic background.
          I.e.

          RL Public Relations - former employer, owned by an Argentinean woman who
          embraces her Mexican-American and South American Staff. This agency has won
          over key Fortune 500 companies over Anglo-run general market firms claiming
          to do Hispanic PR

          VPE PR - Former employer and mentors, owned by two Chicano's, staff is of
          various Hispanic nationalities and reaches out the Hispanic market.

          LaGrant - owned by an African American which does African American and
          Hispanic PR/Advertising

          And of course padma, who has beat-out HUGE NYC agencies run by non-Latinos
          claiming to know the culture and falling flat on their face when we could do
          much more with much less (Sorry for the slight self promotion)

          Happy Friday,
          --
          Ana Lydia Ochoa
          padma media & marketing, Inc.
          o.310.598.5735
          c.310.403.5299

          Twitter.com/LatinaPRpro
          LinkedIn.com/AnaLydiaOchoa
          Facebook.com/pages/Los-Angeles-CA/padma-media-marketing/8757051745



          From my PR Blog:



          Sunday, October 22, 2006

          Diversity in Public Relations - Great Idea or "PC Hell"



          Intro: Recently, we've commemorated the death and birth of Dr. Martin Luther
          King, Jr. - a man who fought for integration and against what we now call
          "diversity" (but what he might have called segregation). Which is why, I
          guess, this has come up now.

          Recently, the topic of "diversity" came up on a PR list - the poster
          "assumed" that we'd all agree that "diversity" is a good idea, but based on
          35 years of color-blind experience in the PR field, I think that "diversity"
          in public relations staffing is a terrible idea. PR is all about results,
          and the color, ethnic origin, religion, gender or race of the PR
          practitioner is absolutely irrelevant. Or so it seems to me. So I wrote to
          the list the following (which, no surprise, created a fire-storm of
          opposition from the terminally politically correct, and ultimately got me
          booted off the list ... ). So put on your asbestos jockey shorts and enjoy a
          controversy ...




          ****


          Basically, I think that "diversity" is a shibboleth - a false idol that
          distracts us away from what's really important in PR (effective
          communications); it also has the negative side effect of dividing people
          when we ought to be pulling them together (it does this by "labeling" people
          and making those labels more important than the people themselves). Let me
          give a few examples of where I'm coming from, then get down to the PR issue.

          I believe in the absolute equality of all people, and think that each person
          should be judged (as Dr. King said) on the quality of their soul, not the
          color of their skin (or their gender, or gender-preference, or any other
          artificial category). I've tried to live my life that way, and I know I've
          tried to conduct my business that way.

          Before I get into what that means to PR, let me give you a bit of background
          which will help to explain why I think "diversity" is a curse for PR, and
          for all PR practitioners, black and white, male and female.

          ******


          When I was in college at the University of Georgia, I was active in the
          local and state civil rights movement - this at a time when the police felt
          it necessary to chase civil rights marchers with batons and leashed dogs.
          One of my proudest moments was my role in helping to desegregate the
          Methodist Church in Georgia - at that time, there were three "conferences" -
          North Georgia (white), South Georgia (white) and Georgia (black). And, at
          that time, the ministers North and South were guaranteed a living wage,
          housing and insurance benefits, retirement and other bennies - all paid for
          by the Conference (churches supplemented that base salary, so some ministers
          made more than others, but all made a living wage, with benefits and
          housing). However, the (black) Georgia Conference ministers had no such
          guarantees; as a result, most black Methodist ministers had full-time
          secular jobs (to support their families), giving their congregations short
          shrift.

          This was discrimination, pure and simple. It not only hurt the ministers, it
          also hurt the black congregations, which needed full-time ministers just as
          much as did the white congregations (besides the fact that it seemed
          essentially at odds with the core message of Christianity, which all who
          were involved professed to believe).

          After lots and lots of behind-the-scenes negotiations, those of us pushing
          for equality arranged for the North Georgia Conference to merge with the
          Georgia Conference - black ministers throughout the state immediately got a
          living wage, benefits and housing - and they got a paid-up retirement plan
          retroactive to the day they were ordained. It was a huge triumph for real
          equality, and I have been proud all my life that I was able to have a hand
          in it.

          That early effort taught me that equality - that we are all the same, and
          should be treated as such - was far more important than diversity (which
          focuses on our differences and tends to separate, rather than connect,
          people). It was a focus on those differences that had led to discrimination
          against black ministers - an evil, in my opinion, not a benefit.

          Later, I became a strong advocate of the Equal Rights Amendment, pushing for
          its passage in South Carolina. Some women (my then-wife included) opposed
          this, because they felt that by being separate (i.e., "diverse") they got
          privileges (i.e., exemption from the military draft and certain other
          obligations that fell solely to men) that would be denied them in a world of
          perfect equality. I disagreed, and even took a leave-of-absence from my job
          to campaign for total equality for all citizens - and, though we didn't use
          the term at that time, I was campaigning against diversity.

          Several years ago, my oldest son got a position on the faculty of a
          state-owned university in Tennessee. This particular university is what's
          known as "a historically black institution," meaning that it used to be
          segregated (a Jim Crow school) and today most of its students and faculty
          remain black. However, my son had excellent credentials in a field where
          they needed excellent credentials, and in a competitive environment, he was
          hired - one of only three white faculty members in his department.

          In his first year, he had an average of one white student per class (average
          class size, 70) - and sad-but-true, he caught a lot of hostile crap from
          black students who were more interested, apparently, in having black
          professors (which - from their perspective - seemed reasonable to them, as
          they chose to attend a predominantly black state university and had little
          desire to associate with people other than black people) than in learning
          what they were there to study. However, because my son reflects my own views
          on absolute equality of individuals, he's been able to set that hostility
          aside and provide superior education (based on student comments to the Dean
          and his own performance evaluations).

          If "diversity" had been the absolute policy, my son would have missed a
          valuable job and valuable life experience, and his students would have
          missed the opportunity to see equality in action - to see that they could
          learn as much from a white man as from a black man or woman. In his way, my
          son has been able to break down (at least a bit) racial hatred and prejudice
          merely by showing up, ignoring hostility and providing equal and quality
          education to all his students. "Diversity" would have made that impossible,
          and would have (I am convinced) hurt the students by depriving them of a new
          perspective that has (at least in a few cases) opened their eyes.

          However, as a final aside, though my son was always the top-rated teaching
          professor in his department, he was denied a "tenure-track" contract;
          instead, he worked from semester to semester with no hope for advancement.
          Though he enjoyed his job and liked being able to work in his home town,
          with a family to support, he eventually left to work for a fully-integrated
          university that was willing to put him on a career path.

          More recently, from a libertarian (not "Libertarian" - I'm not a party man)
          position of equality of opportunity, I've strongly supported the idea of Gay
          Marriages (in my view, if Gay individuals want to be married, let them). I
          support this because I don't believe that people are - at their core, down
          where things really matter - different, at least not different in ways that
          should matter when it comes to basic human rights. And because of that, I do
          not think people should not be treated differently because of factors of
          birth or lifestyle choice.

          I've seen the evil of focusing on differences, even in PR - my former
          business partner was gay, but he kept that a secret from everybody because
          he felt that to be himself would cause him to be discriminated against by
          potential clients ... he wanted to be treated just like everybody else, so
          he kept his nature to himself. His "status" didn't come out until after we'd
          closed the agency and he'd found employment with a company that he thought
          wouldn't care (he was wrong - the job lasted three months).

          In a world where all people were seen as equals, where race and gender and
          orientation literally did not matter, this would not have impacted him. But
          he bought into all that "diversity" crap, let the world know something that
          was basically private information between him and his partner (and basically
          none of the world's business), and wound up losing his job. So much, I feel,
          for diversity.

          ******


          Now let's bring this diversity issue home to public relations.

          One of the tenets of "diversity" is that "like" can only talk to (or
          represent) "like" - Gays can only (or at least best) represent Gays, blacks
          can only (or at least best) represent Blacks, etc. Individual skills,
          ability, "heart" - none of that matters. To those who advocate "diversity,"
          only the color of your skin, or your gender, or your orientation (or
          whatever) matters.

          That, to me, is the essence of discrimination, the very thing Dr. King
          fought against so hard, for so long (and for which he ultimately gave his
          life).

          In my career, I have successfully represented Women's organizations (and
          woman-owned companies), though I am not a woman. I have had client firms
          that were owned by blacks (including an independent Hollywood film
          production company owned by one of the former Drifters), yet I am not black.
          I have represented a gay-themed restaurant, Hamburger Mary's, though I am
          not gay. I've represented Christian clients, though I have not (at that
          time) been an active Christian for many years. In each of these cases, I was
          able to succeed on their behalf - not because I was "one of them," but
          because I was, at that time, the best PR person they could find for their
          particular needs. Rather than diversity, I was able to succeed (and feed my
          family) because my clients were willing and able to set the issue of
          "diversity" aside and, instead, go with the best person available for the
          job at hand.

          By the same token, when I was hiring, I have put women in jobs that
          conventional wisdom said could only be filled by men - because the women I
          hired or retained were simply the best-qualified for the job.

          More than once, I've hired or retained black (or Hispanic, or Indian) men
          and women to handle assignments for white (often bigoted white) clients - I
          brought them in because they were the best, not because they were black, or
          Hispanic, or Indian (which should, under a policy of "diversity," have
          precluded them from the assignments), but because they were the best.

          Just within the last two weeks, I hired a gay man (my former business
          partner) to develop the media portion of a communications plan for a client
          firm (one owned by Catholics and run by some fairly homophobic gents)
          because I knew that my ex-partner was the best person for the job. I didn't
          tell the Catholics that their plan was being developed by a gay guy - it was
          none of their business - but if I had been going with "diversity," I guess
          I'd have had to hire a Catholic homophobe to do the work.

          And this brings me down to the ultimate purpose of public relations.

          We are here to generate results - measurable, meaningful, memorable results.
          When we send an email pitch to a reporter, that reporter doesn't know and
          really doesn't care what our race, gender, religion, orientation, etc. is -
          s/he only cares if our story is newsworthy and our pitch is compelling.

          "Diversity" doesn't enter into it.

          Good PR people - regardless of race, gender and orientation - ought to be
          able to communicate effectively to whites, blacks, Hispanics and other
          races; to men and women, gay or straight or somewhere in between. The only
          meaningful measure is, at least to me, who can do it most effectively.

          The rest is politics, not PR. And while politics doesn't generate favorable
          press coverage, solid PR does.

          So, bottom line, I come down against diversity as it applies to PR - and,
          because it is divisive, rather than inclusive (because it makes categories
          more important than people, and discriminates for or against people based on
          those categories), I come down against diversity (and in favor of absolute
          equality of opportunity) in our society as well.

          I know this isn't politically correct - but I also know that it is (for me,
          and, I think, for everybody who wants to get ahead on his or her own merits,
          who wants to be treated as an individual and valued for who they are as an
          individual) the right way to go, the right thing to do.

          Down off my soap-box, and back to you ...


















          ________________________________
          From: Ned Barnett <ned@... <mailto:ned%40barnettmarcom.com> >
          To: prbytes@yahoogroups.com <mailto:prbytes%40yahoogroups.com>
          Cc: PRMindshare@yahoogroups.com <mailto:PRMindshare%40yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 8:14:59 PM
          Subject: Ethnic Groups (was: [prbytes] RE: [PRMindshare] XP - Swine Flu -
          Probably not, but how to be prepared, just in case ...

          Ana - you have missed a major group or two (or three or four) of people who
          consider themselves "ethnic" and expect to be treated (and marketed to) as
          such, or who refuse to be pigeon-holed into your narrow categories of
          ethnicity.

          I think, as Americans, we spend entirely too much time catering to the
          self-imposed sensitivities (and in some cases, hyper-sensitivities ) of
          those
          who consider being "ethnic" important (or perhaps overridingly important).
          To me, having grown up in a bitterly-divided ethnic household (between my
          parents and grandparents we had three ethnicities and four nationalities) ,
          you're either an American or you're not (and if you're not, you're either
          here legally or illegally). Anything else and you're just letting
          "feelings" get in the way of facts, and - by embracing an over-arching
          ethnicity - you're limiting your ability to function in America as an
          American.

          I say this, as I noted, having been raised in a household by a mother born
          into an ethnic ghetto, whose parents were born into two very different
          ethnic ghettos (my grandparents, except for the suicide thing, were a real
          Romeo-and-Juliet couple, and the surviving inlaws still can't stand one
          another, solely because of ethnic hatreds still too common between
          Irish-Catholics and Italian Catholics in Rust-Belt Cleveland). If you've
          never tried to grow up (and grow out of) Little Italy or Little Ireland in
          the Midwestern Rust Belt, then it may be hard to picture those folks as
          "ethnic" - but I guarantee you that the residents of Little Italy/Youngstown
          or Little Ireland/Cleveland took that VERY SERIOUSLY during my childhood
          (and much more intensely in my parents and grandparents growing-up lives).

          However, all this "stuff about ethnicity and discrimination and segregation
          and the "class" being more important than the "individual" is all different
          when it comes to marketing. When you're selling to someone, it only makes
          sense to cater to their self-imposed prejudices and self-images. However,
          if we're going to get particular about ethnic groups for marketing purposes,
          I would offer the following:

          1. Having worked extensively with the Cuban, Puerto Rican and
          Argentinian markets, none of them would want to be considered to be "Latino"
          or "Hispanic" - both of which to them equate to Mexican/Central American,
          while they see themselves as "Spanish-Speaking Europeans" (during the
          Alvarez social altercations [aka "riots"] in the mid-80s, I was told by
          Cuban business partners, who were not kidding, that the quickest way for me
          as an Anglo to get knifed was to refer to a Cuban as a Mexican, or a Latino,
          or a Hispanic). I spent a lot of time marketing to that marketplace (and
          continue to do so), and have not found any increased willingness to be
          considered "Latino" or "Hispanic" among Cuban-Americans.

          2. This distinction was reinforced to me by a New York City Puerto
          Rican who served in the Reagan administration (as Deputy Drug Czar) who also
          refused to be considered a "Latino" or "Hispanic" - but not because he was a
          "Spanish-Speaking European" but for the reason that he was fully
          "Americanized" and wanted to be treated the same as other Americans (for
          instance, when interviewed on Telemundo, he refused to speak in Spanish - a
          surprise to me, as I had to scramble to find a translator for the interview
          I set up for him).

          3. Orthodox Jews (some would say all Jews) are certainly an ethnic
          group all unto themselves; in Miami, they are marketed to as a separate
          ethnic group, quite effectively. For instance, I marketed an "Orthodox"
          hospital in North Miami Beach, even hiring an Orthodox Rabbi on my marketing
          department team, and took a dying-on-the- vine hospital [occupancy 59 out of
          350 beds the day I took over marketing] and filled up "Kosher" units and
          filled the hospital on the Sabbath because all staff were trained and
          required to respect, honor and respond to Orthodox rules for the Sabbath.

          4. If you've ever been to the Detroit area, especially Dearborn, you
          know that Arabic Muslims consider themselves an ethnic minority, and if you
          have ever dealt with CAIR, you know the risk you run when you do NOT treat
          them as an ethnic minority (having marketed an Egyptian-born
          invitro-fertilizati on specialist in both Dearborn and Flint, I know this
          from very first-hand experience)

          5. When it comes to Asians, you cannot lump Chinese, Koreans and
          Japanese with Indians, Bangladeshi and Pakistani markets - they may all be
          from "Asia" but it's the biggest continent and reflect vastly different
          cultures (if you don't believe me, go to Chinatown and ask for curry, or go
          to India-town and ask for mu-shu pork)

          6. I also think that President Obama - the son of an African
          immigrant, instead of the descendent of slaves - makes it clear that there
          is no ethnicity distinction worth mentioning between African-Americans and
          African Immigrants). Colin Powell and my own future daughter-in- law make it
          clear that Jamaican-descent is, once you're born into America, is irrelevant
          - you're still "African-American. " Finally, as both Obama and my future
          daughter-in- law show, someone who is half-African American and half white
          American can freely choose their ethnicity, regardless of their genetic
          heritage (which further calls into question the whole ethnicity thing in my
          opinion). One - raised in a white household, has chosen to be "black,"
          while the other - raised in a black household - has chosen to be "white."
          Both are Americans.

          I could go on. Ask the Kurdish-American or the Armenian-Americans if they
          are "ethnic" . then step back, especially if you want to lump them with
          "white" (though they're a lot closer to real "Caucasians" than are most
          American whites).

          My point (and I do have one)? While ethnic subdivisions are often useful
          for marketing purposes, they get in the way of integrating people into the
          American culture. In addition, those who are over-sensitive (to
          hyper-sensitive) about their ethnicity not only create problems for
          themselves and others, but unless they understand the differences between
          Samoans and Tongans (and can respect those differences) , and who
          acknowledge
          all the other ethnicities that are important to self-defined ethnic
          minorities in America are asking for trouble.

          And if the term "Mexican Flu" hare-lips someone who has no problem referring
          to "Hong Kong Flu," "Spanish Flu" or "Asian Flu," they might want to look at
          their own prejudices and sensitivities. As Spock said to Savik, "Sauce for
          the Goose, Mr. Savik." Unless, of course, they're marketing flu-shots to
          self-defined Latinos or Hispanics, in which case cultural sensitivity is
          important and appropriate.

          Or so it seems to me.

          Ned

          Ned Barnett, APR

          Marketing/PR Fellow, American Hospital Association

          Barnett Marketing Communications

          420 N. Nellis Blvd. A3-276

          Las Vegas NV 89110

          702-696-1200 - ned@barnettmarcom. com

          http://www.barnettmarcom.com

          From: prbytes@yahoogroups .com [mailto:prbytes@yahoogroups .com] On Behalf
          Of
          ana lydia ochoa
          Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 4:31 PM
          To: prbytes@yahoogroups .com
          Subject: Re: [prbytes] RE: [PRMindshare] XP - Swine Flu - Probably not, but
          how to be prepared, just in case ...

          For Marketing/PR/ Advertising purposes, ethnic groups are categorized as
          follows:

          Latino/Hispanic (also broken down by Spanish speaking, bilingual, new
          immigrants, Portuguese speaking)
          Asian (can also be broken down further by South Asian, Pacific Islanders,
          etc.)
          African American (not to be confused with African immigrants or black
          Latinos)

          The general market, or non-ethnic are categorized as:

          White/Anglo- Saxon
          Immigrated to US 3+ generations past (at this point, most immigrants,
          whether Hispanic or from European countries are marketed all of the same)

          Research has shown that by being aware of the cultural nuances of the
          various ethnic groups we can prevent "foot in mouth" syndrome. :)

          --
          Ana Lydia Ochoa
          padma media & marketing, Inc.
          o.310.598.5735
          c.310.403.5299

          Twitter.com/ LatinaPRpro
          LinkedIn.com/ AnaLydiaOchoa
          Facebook.com/ pages/Los- Angeles-CA/ padma-media- marketing/ 8757051745

          ____________ _________ _________ __
          From: Rich <rarostron@yahoo. com <mailto:rarostron% 40yahoo.com> >
          To: prbytes@yahoogroups .com <mailto:prbytes% 40yahoogroups. com>
          Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 12:45:10 PM
          Subject: Re: [prbytes] RE: [PRMindshare] XP - Swine Flu - Probably not, but
          how to be prepared, just in case ...

          Just out of curiosity, what is a non ethnic group? Don't we all have our own
          particular ethnicity? I think Ned's point is that, were a similar disease to
          take root in the U.S., it might be named the US or American flu. If it
          started in New York, we'd call it the New York flu, or, if it started in
          Chicago, the Chicago flu (I use the example of Chicago because I'm from the
          Chicago area and wouldn't want anyone from New York to think that I'm
          dissing them) as opposed to the Hong Kong flu. If something like this starts
          in Chicago, I'll be far more concerned about not catching the disease, or
          recovering if I do, than in worrying about what they call it. I think we
          have a choice to stretch our minds to see racial/ethnic prejudice, if that's
          what we're inclined to see. Some members of the general public are also so
          inclined. Maybe we should try to set examples that help them out of the
          woods.

          ____________ _________ _________ __
          From: ana lydia ochoa <analydiaochoa@ yahoo.com>
          To: prbytes@yahoogroups .com
          Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 2:12:44 PM
          Subject: Re: [prbytes] RE: [PRMindshare] XP - Swine Flu - Probably not, but
          how to be prepared, just in case ...

          Ned,

          You bring up an issue that comes up time and time again - Hispanic, Asian
          (or any other ethnic group) will find racism in comments or names of
          problems (i.e. Mexican Flu).

          Non-ethnic people will not.

          I won't try to change your mind (or those that don't find it offensive).
          Just know, that for a large group of ethnic (Mexican at that) folks, others
          calling this pandemic flu "Mexican Flu" has allowed many (non ethnic folk)
          to use that against immigrants, etc.

          Case in point - just follow the Twitter comments on the subject.

          However, this is not PR and the topic is probably left alone at this point.

          --
          Ana Lydia Ochoa
          padma media & marketing, Inc.
          o.310.598.5735
          c.310.403.5299

          Twitter.com/ LatinaPRpro
          LinkedIn.com/ AnaLydiaOchoa
          Facebook.com/ pages/Los- Angeles-CA/ padma-media- marketing/ 8757051745

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • ana lydia ochoa
          Ned, Yikes - very lengthy email outlining your experience. Frankly, as I stated before, this is not a competition nor is it related to this group (as I know
          Message 4 of 22 , May 4, 2009
          • 0 Attachment
            Ned,

            Yikes - very lengthy email outlining your experience. Frankly, as I stated before, this is not a competition nor is it related to this group (as I know it, at least). And, having 'ethnic clients' is very different than reaching ethnic consumers. And, as most of us in the industry will attest to, ethnic outreach in 2000 is very different than ethnic outreach now.

            Great blog posts by key leaders in the industry that validate my comments can be found on: hispanictrending.net, hispanicmarketweekly.com and a few others.

            That being said, if you'd (and others on this list) would like to build relationships with other PR and Mkting pro's that currently work with ethnic consumers, you are welcome to join HPRA and AHAA (I am a member of HPRA and good friends with board members - very close to AHAA, so I can make intro's there if needed).

            I am also starting a weekly conversation on Twitter. You can read last week's coversation by searching #ethnicmktng.

            In addition, our agency will be heading a Google or Yahoo group exclusively for pro's in the marketing, advertising and PR industry that currently work and manage projects that reach ethnic consumers. I will make that information available once all the key people are in place.

            Lastly, I noticed that my comments/response are being sent to a list I am not part of. In the future, I would appreciate that any comments/emails that are being forwarded with my contact name and other information attached be OK'd by me first.

            --
            Ana Lydia Ochoa
            padma media & marketing, Inc.
            o.310.598.5735
            c.310.403.5299

            Twitter.com/LatinaPRpro
            LinkedIn.com/AnaLydiaOchoa
            Facebook.com/pages/Los-Angeles-CA/padma-media-marketing/8757051745








            ________________________________
            From: Ned Barnett <ned@...>
            To: prbytes@yahoogroups.com
            Cc: PRMindshare@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Friday, May 1, 2009 7:16:08 PM
            Subject: XP - Diversity in Public Relations - Good Idea or Bad? (was: Ethnic Groups (was: [prbytes] RE: [PRMindshare] XP - Swine Flu - Probably not, but how to be prepared, just in case ...





            Ana

            Without intending to, you hit on a professional PR issue that I have given a
            great deal of thought to since the late '60s, back when I was active in the
            Civil Rights movement in the Deep South (Georgia), and which has had a
            profound carry-over into my professional career. That is the issue of
            "diversity" in public relations - and especially the kind of diversity in
            which only those of a certain ethnic persuasion can provide PR services for
            others of that same ethnic persuasion (or at least, that those of a given
            ethnic persuasion are uniquely well-qualified - or profoundly
            better-qualified - to provide PR services to those of the same ethnic
            persuasion) - or, as you said, services that as you said, are "best done by
            professionals of the same ethnic background ."

            I wrote a blog on this in 2006, and I've appended it to the bottom of this
            email (below your comments). I invite you to read it, as it might challenge
            some of your beliefs and get you to look at PR from a broader and more
            inclusive perspective, rather than ghetto-izing PR by insisting that only
            those of a given ethnicity can do the best job for clients who share that
            ethnicity.

            To me, though I do not believe you intended it to be that way, that
            statement (and the belief behind it) is blatantly racist, elitist,
            discriminatory and a throwback to the discredited segregationist
            "separate-but- equal" (that the Supreme Court wisely ruled could never be
            equal) approach to life and work in America.

            Rosa Parks risked her life to ride in the front of the bus; others risked
            their lives to win the right to sit at lunch counters and be served, or to
            buy a house where they wanted to live (instead of where others told them to
            live), or to do business with anyone they chose, regardless of skin color,
            national origin, religious belief (or lack thereof) or ethnicity. To claim
            at this late date, after a half-century of struggle for equality, that those
            who share an ethnicity are in a position to provide PR services, as you
            said, are "best done by professionals of the same ethnic background ."

            My own career is based on the idea that the best PR person can provide the
            best PR services - which is why I've been able to provide highly-successful
            PR services to ethnically-focused businesses and minority-ethnic individuals
            because, in those particular instances, I was the best PR person available
            to do the job. Like a great many others in our field (I can't speak for
            them, but compared to some, I'm an amateur at this), I've won national
            awards for profoundly effective PR programs for:

            . A Cuban-American software expert who has built two separate and
            parallel careers - one serving the Cuban-American (and
            Caribbean/Latin- American) markets, and one serving the majority Anglo market
            throughout North America - I got him business-building coverage in both
            Anglo/mainstream business publications and specialty Spanish-language media
            (not because I speak Spanish - because I don't; and not because I'm
            Cuban-American - because I'm not) because I understood his business, his
            market opportunity, and capitalized on both.

            . A Hispanic (non-Cuban) research physician who discovered something
            profoundly significant about cocaine addiction among teens - I got him on
            the Today Show (and in many US publications) again without speaking Spanish.

            . A black-owned and black-focused website on racial healing (aimed
            at blacks, not whites) which is VERY happy with my work

            . A black independent movie producer who put together an "indie"
            film on racial healing (you may see a pattern in my career here) that opened
            at the Fox in Atlanta (as a charity for the King Foundation and the Carter
            Center) that was also shown in "ethnic" theater premiers in the top-ten
            black-population metro markets, and which became the basis for Sunday School
            programs in a variety of denominations (including offering an award for the
            best sermons preached on the subject matter of the film)

            . A "black" hospital and medical school in Nashville that trained 40
            percent of all black physicians in America (at that time - mid-80s) - a
            campaign that generated $29 million dollars in donations (which, by the way,
            saved the hospital and medical college from closing) while dramatically
            raising the visibility and credibility of the college and hospital

            . The Martin Luther King Jr. Memorial Hospital in Miami, which I
            took from a 26-bed hospital and transformed (as project manager, as well as
            PR director) into a 125-bed brand-new hospital located on a Cuban University
            Campus (helping to bring together the black and Cuban communities in the
            wake of the Alvarez riots in the mid-80s), while securing a teaching
            hospital to take over the old 26-bed hospital as a free clinic in one of the
            poorer black communities in Miami (Liberty City) - the program was
            successful financially, in human terms, and it was hugely successful in PR
            terms by several judgments

            . An Egyptian-born physician in a community that had almost no
            Muslims or Arabs (I know Egyptians aren't "quite" Arabs, but that's how he
            was seen in that community) - his practice soared as I was able to offset
            his ethnicity by virtue of his profound medical expertise

            . The first woman plastic surgeon to become President of the Georgia
            Society of Plastic and Reconstructive Surgeons (I promoted her with the
            intent of helping her win this coveted post)

            . A Vietnamese "boat-person" refugee who became the first Asian-born
            woman to head up a major Silicon Valley software (Linux) company - I got her
            coverage in literally every North American business trade publication (we
            had three days of non-stop, ten-hour-per- day, 15-minute interviews - with
            five minutes between them) by understanding what the market wanted to hear
            about this woman, her company and her distinctive background (in part, I did
            this by staging the interviews through Beijing, holding the announcement
            until I could tell the reporters that we'd set up satellite phone interviews
            with her in Beijing while she was negotiating to become the "official
            operating system of the 2008 Olympics"). Oddly, I'm neither a woman nor
            Vietnamese, but I still blew the market apart with this intense and
            intensely positive coverage

            . Early in my career, I won several national design awards from CASE
            and other educationally- based professional societies for a brochure and a PR
            campaign designed to recruit non-traditional students into technical career
            paths (women into heavy equipment operation, men into nursing and office
            management, black women into nuclear engineering technology, etc.) - MIT
            later "borrowed" my campaign, lock, stock and barrel (I've always said that
            plagiarism is the sincerest form of flattery) for their own non-traditional
            student recruiting program

            I could go on, and on, and on, but let me just say this: In addition to
            having had "ethnic" clients here in the US, I've had clients in Dubai, the
            PRC, Belarus, Colombia, India, Nigeria - an author who named me in his
            book-dedication - London, South Africa, Canada, French Canada, Romania and a
            fair number of other places - and to an American raised in the Deep South,
            all of those places are also "ethnic" (hell, I wrote a brochure published in
            both Russian and Belarussian - neither of which I read - and I produced an
            ad campaign (print, TV) in Spanish that won national "Hispanic" media awards
            for creativity and effectiveness, and as I've said, I don't read or speak
            Spanish).

            And I'm not alone - I can best speak from my own example, but I know many PR
            professionals who've done exceptionally well with ethnic groups that they
            are not part of. I've also seen PR people who consider themselves "ethnic"
            who've done spectacularly in the mainstream market, or in working
            cross-ethnicity.

            Ana - I find the notion that only Hispanics can best promote Hispanics, or
            only Blacks can best promote Blacks, as counter-productive to PR and to the
            people who espouse it. They generally don't see that (as noted earlier),
            it's Sauce for the Goose, Mr. Savik (i.e., that if you can ghetto-ize PR for
            ethnic minorities, then by the same logic, only whites should be able to
            promote "white" or mainstream companies . and that is both offensive and
            patently untrue . it is also destructive in a way that only those who can
            remember Jim Crow might really be able to understand). I don't believe
            that's your intent, but your position is still segregationist, racist,
            exclusive-ist and lots of other "ists" that America has worked hard for half
            a century to put behind us.

            I have no doubt that there are profoundly good ethnic PR agencies who've
            done remarkable work in their own ethnic communities - I've hired some, and
            partnered with others, and I've seen what they can do. But in every case -
            EVERY CASE - they were effective NOT because they were ethnic (and therefore
            better understood the ethnicity), but because they were superior PR
            professionals at the top of their game. Sadly, some agencies play on their
            ethnicity to land contracts, playing on racism (and reverse racism) and
            other less noble sentiments to win contracts because of their race or
            ethnicity, instead of because of their superior performance. But when the
            playing field is level, the best PR person will always produce and deliver
            the best PR campaign, regardless of his/her ethnicity (and regardless of the
            client's ethnic orientation) .

            Ned Barnett, APR

            Marketing/PR Fellow, American Hospital Association

            Barnett Marketing Communications

            420 N. Nellis Blvd. A3-276

            Las Vegas NV 89110

            702-696-1200 - ned@barnettmarcom. com

            http://www.barnettmarcom.com

            From: prbytes@yahoogroups .com [mailto:prbytes@yahoogroups .com] On Behalf Of
            ana lydia ochoa
            Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 4:04 PM
            To: prbytes@yahoogroups .com
            Cc: PRMindshare@ yahoogroups. com
            Subject: Re: Ethnic Groups (was: [prbytes] RE: [PRMindshare] XP - Swine Flu
            - Probably not, but how to be prepared, just in case ...

            Ned,

            You missed my second email on the topic listing the missing ethnic groups
            categorized for both marketing and PR purposes.

            I have spoken and provided insight extensively on the subject of ethnic
            outreach and have many years experience in dealing with Fortune 500
            companies needed my expertise, just as you do. For that reason, I won't
            comment or elaborate on (possible) short-comings of your below referenced
            examples.

            In terms of your personal feelings and background, we should probably leave
            it out of a professional PR board. Otherwise, it could turn quite ugly and
            offend many different folks (As various of your comments below could be
            misinterpreted) .

            One key thing to take-away by other list members is that ethnic PR is a must
            and it's usually done best by professionals of the same ethnic background.
            I.e.

            RL Public Relations - former employer, owned by an Argentinean woman who
            embraces her Mexican-American and South American Staff. This agency has won
            over key Fortune 500 companies over Anglo-run general market firms claiming
            to do Hispanic PR

            VPE PR - Former employer and mentors, owned by two Chicano's, staff is of
            various Hispanic nationalities and reaches out the Hispanic market.

            LaGrant - owned by an African American which does African American and
            Hispanic PR/Advertising

            And of course padma, who has beat-out HUGE NYC agencies run by non-Latinos
            claiming to know the culture and falling flat on their face when we could do
            much more with much less (Sorry for the slight self promotion)

            Happy Friday,
            --
            Ana Lydia Ochoa
            padma media & marketing, Inc.
            o.310.598.5735
            c.310.403.5299

            Twitter.com/ LatinaPRpro
            LinkedIn.com/ AnaLydiaOchoa
            Facebook.com/ pages/Los- Angeles-CA/ padma-media- marketing/ 8757051745

            From my PR Blog:

            Sunday, October 22, 2006

            Diversity in Public Relations - Great Idea or "PC Hell"

            Intro: Recently, we've commemorated the death and birth of Dr. Martin Luther
            King, Jr. - a man who fought for integration and against what we now call
            "diversity" (but what he might have called segregation) . Which is why, I
            guess, this has come up now.

            Recently, the topic of "diversity" came up on a PR list - the poster
            "assumed" that we'd all agree that "diversity" is a good idea, but based on
            35 years of color-blind experience in the PR field, I think that "diversity"
            in public relations staffing is a terrible idea. PR is all about results,
            and the color, ethnic origin, religion, gender or race of the PR
            practitioner is absolutely irrelevant. Or so it seems to me. So I wrote to
            the list the following (which, no surprise, created a fire-storm of
            opposition from the terminally politically correct, and ultimately got me
            booted off the list ... ). So put on your asbestos jockey shorts and enjoy a
            controversy ...

            ****

            Basically, I think that "diversity" is a shibboleth - a false idol that
            distracts us away from what's really important in PR (effective
            communications) ; it also has the negative side effect of dividing people
            when we ought to be pulling them together (it does this by "labeling" people
            and making those labels more important than the people themselves). Let me
            give a few examples of where I'm coming from, then get down to the PR issue.

            I believe in the absolute equality of all people, and think that each person
            should be judged (as Dr. King said) on the quality of their soul, not the
            color of their skin (or their gender, or gender-preference, or any other
            artificial category). I've tried to live my life that way, and I know I've
            tried to conduct my business that way.

            Before I get into what that means to PR, let me give you a bit of background
            which will help to explain why I think "diversity" is a curse for PR, and
            for all PR practitioners, black and white, male and female.

            ******

            When I was in college at the University of Georgia, I was active in the
            local and state civil rights movement - this at a time when the police felt
            it necessary to chase civil rights marchers with batons and leashed dogs.
            One of my proudest moments was my role in helping to desegregate the
            Methodist Church in Georgia - at that time, there were three "conferences" -
            North Georgia (white), South Georgia (white) and Georgia (black). And, at
            that time, the ministers North and South were guaranteed a living wage,
            housing and insurance benefits, retirement and other bennies - all paid for
            by the Conference (churches supplemented that base salary, so some ministers
            made more than others, but all made a living wage, with benefits and
            housing). However, the (black) Georgia Conference ministers had no such
            guarantees; as a result, most black Methodist ministers had full-time
            secular jobs (to support their families), giving their congregations short
            shrift.

            This was discrimination, pure and simple. It not only hurt the ministers, it
            also hurt the black congregations, which needed full-time ministers just as
            much as did the white congregations (besides the fact that it seemed
            essentially at odds with the core message of Christianity, which all who
            were involved professed to believe).

            After lots and lots of behind-the-scenes negotiations, those of us pushing
            for equality arranged for the North Georgia Conference to merge with the
            Georgia Conference - black ministers throughout the state immediately got a
            living wage, benefits and housing - and they got a paid-up retirement plan
            retroactive to the day they were ordained. It was a huge triumph for real
            equality, and I have been proud all my life that I was able to have a hand
            in it.

            That early effort taught me that equality - that we are all the same, and
            should be treated as such - was far more important than diversity (which
            focuses on our differences and tends to separate, rather than connect,
            people). It was a focus on those differences that had led to discrimination
            against black ministers - an evil, in my opinion, not a benefit.

            Later, I became a strong advocate of the Equal Rights Amendment, pushing for
            its passage in South Carolina. Some women (my then-wife included) opposed
            this, because they felt that by being separate (i.e., "diverse") they got
            privileges (i.e., exemption from the military draft and certain other
            obligations that fell solely to men) that would be denied them in a world of
            perfect equality. I disagreed, and even took a leave-of-absence from my job
            to campaign for total equality for all citizens - and, though we didn't use
            the term at that time, I was campaigning against diversity.

            Several years ago, my oldest son got a position on the faculty of a
            state-owned university in Tennessee. This particular university is what's
            known as "a historically black institution, " meaning that it used to be
            segregated (a Jim Crow school) and today most of its students and faculty
            remain black. However, my son had excellent credentials in a field where
            they needed excellent credentials, and in a competitive environment, he was
            hired - one of only three white faculty members in his department.

            In his first year, he had an average of one white student per class (average
            class size, 70) - and sad-but-true, he caught a lot of hostile crap from
            black students who were more interested, apparently, in having black
            professors (which - from their perspective - seemed reasonable to them, as
            they chose to attend a predominantly black state university and had little
            desire to associate with people other than black people) than in learning
            what they were there to study. However, because my son reflects my own views
            on absolute equality of individuals, he's been able to set that hostility
            aside and provide superior education (based on student comments to the Dean
            and his own performance evaluations) .

            If "diversity" had been the absolute policy, my son would have missed a
            valuable job and valuable life experience, and his students would have
            missed the opportunity to see equality in action - to see that they could
            learn as much from a white man as from a black man or woman. In his way, my
            son has been able to break down (at least a bit) racial hatred and prejudice
            merely by showing up, ignoring hostility and providing equal and quality
            education to all his students. "Diversity" would have made that impossible,
            and would have (I am convinced) hurt the students by depriving them of a new
            perspective that has (at least in a few cases) opened their eyes.

            However, as a final aside, though my son was always the top-rated teaching
            professor in his department, he was denied a "tenure-track" contract;
            instead, he worked from semester to semester with no hope for advancement.
            Though he enjoyed his job and liked being able to work in his home town,
            with a family to support, he eventually left to work for a fully-integrated
            university that was willing to put him on a career path.

            More recently, from a libertarian (not "Libertarian" - I'm not a party man)
            position of equality of opportunity, I've strongly supported the idea of Gay
            Marriages (in my view, if Gay individuals want to be married, let them). I
            support this because I don't believe that people are - at their core, down
            where things really matter - different, at least not different in ways that
            should matter when it comes to basic human rights. And because of that, I do
            not think people should not be treated differently because of factors of
            birth or lifestyle choice.

            I've seen the evil of focusing on differences, even in PR - my former
            business partner was gay, but he kept that a secret from everybody because
            he felt that to be himself would cause him to be discriminated against by
            potential clients ... he wanted to be treated just like everybody else, so
            he kept his nature to himself. His "status" didn't come out until after we'd
            closed the agency and he'd found employment with a company that he thought
            wouldn't care (he was wrong - the job lasted three months).

            In a world where all people were seen as equals, where race and gender and
            orientation literally did not matter, this would not have impacted him. But
            he bought into all that "diversity" crap, let the world know something that
            was basically private information between him and his partner (and basically
            none of the world's business), and wound up losing his job. So much, I feel,
            for diversity.

            ******

            Now let's bring this diversity issue home to public relations.

            One of the tenets of "diversity" is that "like" can only talk to (or
            represent) "like" - Gays can only (or at least best) represent Gays, blacks
            can only (or at least best) represent Blacks, etc. Individual skills,
            ability, "heart" - none of that matters. To those who advocate "diversity,"
            only the color of your skin, or your gender, or your orientation (or
            whatever) matters.

            That, to me, is the essence of discrimination, the very thing Dr. King
            fought against so hard, for so long (and for which he ultimately gave his
            life).

            In my career, I have successfully represented Women's organizations (and
            woman-owned companies), though I am not a woman. I have had client firms
            that were owned by blacks (including an independent Hollywood film
            production company owned by one of the former Drifters), yet I am not black.
            I have represented a gay-themed restaurant, Hamburger Mary's, though I am
            not gay. I've represented Christian clients, though I have not (at that
            time) been an active Christian for many years. In each of these cases, I was
            able to succeed on their behalf - not because I was "one of them," but
            because I was, at that time, the best PR person they could find for their
            particular needs. Rather than diversity, I was able to succeed (and feed my
            family) because my clients were willing and able to set the issue of
            "diversity" aside and, instead, go with the best person available for the
            job at hand.

            By the same token, when I was hiring, I have put women in jobs that
            conventional wisdom said could only be filled by men - because the women I
            hired or retained were simply the best-qualified for the job.

            More than once, I've hired or retained black (or Hispanic, or Indian) men
            and women to handle assignments for white (often bigoted white) clients - I
            brought them in because they were the best, not because they were black, or
            Hispanic, or Indian (which should, under a policy of "diversity," have
            precluded them from the assignments) , but because they were the best.

            Just within the last two weeks, I hired a gay man (my former business
            partner) to develop the media portion of a communications plan for a client
            firm (one owned by Catholics and run by some fairly homophobic gents)
            because I knew that my ex-partner was the best person for the job. I didn't
            tell the Catholics that their plan was being developed by a gay guy - it was
            none of their business - but if I had been going with "diversity," I guess
            I'd have had to hire a Catholic homophobe to do the work.

            And this brings me down to the ultimate purpose of public relations.

            We are here to generate results - measurable, meaningful, memorable results.
            When we send an email pitch to a reporter, that reporter doesn't know and
            really doesn't care what our race, gender, religion, orientation, etc. is -
            s/he only cares if our story is newsworthy and our pitch is compelling.

            "Diversity" doesn't enter into it.

            Good PR people - regardless of race, gender and orientation - ought to be
            able to communicate effectively to whites, blacks, Hispanics and other
            races; to men and women, gay or straight or somewhere in between. The only
            meaningful measure is, at least to me, who can do it most effectively.

            The rest is politics, not PR. And while politics doesn't generate favorable
            press coverage, solid PR does.

            So, bottom line, I come down against diversity as it applies to PR - and,
            because it is divisive, rather than inclusive (because it makes categories
            more important than people, and discriminates for or against people based on
            those categories), I come down against diversity (and in favor of absolute
            equality of opportunity) in our society as well.

            I know this isn't politically correct - but I also know that it is (for me,
            and, I think, for everybody who wants to get ahead on his or her own merits,
            who wants to be treated as an individual and valued for who they are as an
            individual) the right way to go, the right thing to do.

            Down off my soap-box, and back to you ...

            ____________ _________ _________ __
            From: Ned Barnett <ned@barnettmarcom. com <mailto:ned% 40barnettmarcom. com> >
            To: prbytes@yahoogroups .com <mailto:prbytes% 40yahoogroups. com>
            Cc: PRMindshare@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:PRMindshare %40yahoogroups. com>
            Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 8:14:59 PM
            Subject: Ethnic Groups (was: [prbytes] RE: [PRMindshare] XP - Swine Flu -
            Probably not, but how to be prepared, just in case ...

            Ana - you have missed a major group or two (or three or four) of people who
            consider themselves "ethnic" and expect to be treated (and marketed to) as
            such, or who refuse to be pigeon-holed into your narrow categories of
            ethnicity.

            I think, as Americans, we spend entirely too much time catering to the
            self-imposed sensitivities (and in some cases, hyper-sensitivities ) of
            those
            who consider being "ethnic" important (or perhaps overridingly important).
            To me, having grown up in a bitterly-divided ethnic household (between my
            parents and grandparents we had three ethnicities and four nationalities) ,
            you're either an American or you're not (and if you're not, you're either
            here legally or illegally). Anything else and you're just letting
            "feelings" get in the way of facts, and - by embracing an over-arching
            ethnicity - you're limiting your ability to function in America as an
            American.

            I say this, as I noted, having been raised in a household by a mother born
            into an ethnic ghetto, whose parents were born into two very different
            ethnic ghettos (my grandparents, except for the suicide thing, were a real
            Romeo-and-Juliet couple, and the surviving inlaws still can't stand one
            another, solely because of ethnic hatreds still too common between
            Irish-Catholics and Italian Catholics in Rust-Belt Cleveland). If you've
            never tried to grow up (and grow out of) Little Italy or Little Ireland in
            the Midwestern Rust Belt, then it may be hard to picture those folks as
            "ethnic" - but I guarantee you that the residents of Little Italy/Youngstown
            or Little Ireland/Cleveland took that VERY SERIOUSLY during my childhood
            (and much more intensely in my parents and grandparents growing-up lives).

            However, all this "stuff about ethnicity and discrimination and segregation
            and the "class" being more important than the "individual" is all different
            when it comes to marketing. When you're selling to someone, it only makes
            sense to cater to their self-imposed prejudices and self-images. However,
            if we're going to get particular about ethnic groups for marketing purposes,
            I would offer the following:

            1. Having worked extensively with the Cuban, Puerto Rican and
            Argentinian markets, none of them would want to be considered to be "Latino"
            or "Hispanic" - both of which to them equate to Mexican/Central American,
            while they see themselves as "Spanish-Speaking Europeans" (during the
            Alvarez social altercations [aka "riots"] in the mid-80s, I was told by
            Cuban business partners, who were not kidding, that the quickest way for me
            as an Anglo to get knifed was to refer to a Cuban as a Mexican, or a Latino,
            or a Hispanic). I spent a lot of time marketing to that marketplace (and
            continue to do so), and have not found any increased willingness to be
            considered "Latino" or "Hispanic" among Cuban-Americans.

            2. This distinction was reinforced to me by a New York City Puerto
            Rican who served in the Reagan administration (as Deputy Drug Czar) who also
            refused to be considered a "Latino" or "Hispanic" - but not because he was a
            "Spanish-Speaking European" but for the reason that he was fully
            "Americanized" and wanted to be treated the same as other Americans (for
            instance, when interviewed on Telemundo, he refused to speak in Spanish - a
            surprise to me, as I had to scramble to find a translator for the interview
            I set up for him).

            3. Orthodox Jews (some would say all Jews) are certainly an ethnic
            group all unto themselves; in Miami, they are marketed to as a separate
            ethnic group, quite effectively. For instance, I marketed an "Orthodox"
            hospital in North Miami Beach, even hiring an Orthodox Rabbi on my marketing
            department team, and took a dying-on-the- vine hospital [occupancy 59 out of
            350 beds the day I took over marketing] and filled up "Kosher" units and
            filled the hospital on the Sabbath because all staff were trained and
            required to respect, honor and respond to Orthodox rules for the Sabbath.

            4. If you've ever been to the Detroit area, especially Dearborn, you
            know that Arabic Muslims consider themselves an ethnic minority, and if you
            have ever dealt with CAIR, you know the risk you run when you do NOT treat
            them as an ethnic minority (having marketed an Egyptian-born
            invitro-fertilizati on specialist in both Dearborn and Flint, I know this
            from very first-hand experience)

            5. When it comes to Asians, you cannot lump Chinese, Koreans and
            Japanese with Indians, Bangladeshi and Pakistani markets - they may all be
            from "Asia" but it's the biggest continent and reflect vastly different
            cultures (if you don't believe me, go to Chinatown and ask for curry, or go
            to India-town and ask for mu-shu pork)

            6. I also think that President Obama - the son of an African
            immigrant, instead of the descendent of slaves - makes it clear that there
            is no ethnicity distinction worth mentioning between African-Americans and
            African Immigrants). Colin Powell and my own future daughter-in- law make it
            clear that Jamaican-descent is, once you're born into America, is irrelevant
            - you're still "African-American. " Finally, as both Obama and my future
            daughter-in- law show, someone who is half-African American and half white
            American can freely choose their ethnicity, regardless of their genetic
            heritage (which further calls into question the whole ethnicity thing in my
            opinion). One - raised in a white household, has chosen to be "black,"
            while the other - raised in a black household - has chosen to be "white."
            Both are Americans.

            I could go on. Ask the Kurdish-American or the Armenian-Americans if they
            are "ethnic" . then step back, especially if you want to lump them with
            "white" (though they're a lot closer to real "Caucasians" than are most
            American whites).

            My point (and I do have one)? While ethnic subdivisions are often useful
            for marketing purposes, they get in the way of integrating people into the
            American culture. In addition, those who are over-sensitive (to
            hyper-sensitive) about their ethnicity not only create problems for
            themselves and others, but unless they understand the differences between
            Samoans and Tongans (and can respect those differences) , and who
            acknowledge
            all the other ethnicities that are important to self-defined ethnic
            minorities in America are asking for trouble.

            And if the term "Mexican Flu" hare-lips someone who has no problem referring
            to "Hong Kong Flu," "Spanish Flu" or "Asian Flu," they might want to look at
            their own prejudices and sensitivities. As Spock said to Savik, "Sauce for
            the Goose, Mr. Savik." Unless, of course, they're marketing flu-shots to
            self-defined Latinos or Hispanics, in which case cultural sensitivity is
            important and appropriate.

            Or so it seems to me.

            Ned

            Ned Barnett, APR

            Marketing/PR Fellow, American Hospital Association

            Barnett Marketing Communications

            420 N. Nellis Blvd. A3-276

            Las Vegas NV 89110

            702-696-1200 - ned@barnettmarcom. com

            http://www.barnettmarcom.com

            From: prbytes@yahoogroups .com [mailto:prbytes@ yahoogroups .com] On Behalf
            Of
            ana lydia ochoa
            Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 4:31 PM
            To: prbytes@yahoogroups .com
            Subject: Re: [prbytes] RE: [PRMindshare] XP - Swine Flu - Probably not, but
            how to be prepared, just in case ...

            For Marketing/PR/ Advertising purposes, ethnic groups are categorized as
            follows:

            Latino/Hispanic (also broken down by Spanish speaking, bilingual, new
            immigrants, Portuguese speaking)
            Asian (can also be broken down further by South Asian, Pacific Islanders,
            etc.)
            African American (not to be confused with African immigrants or black
            Latinos)

            The general market, or non-ethnic are categorized as:

            White/Anglo- Saxon
            Immigrated to US 3+ generations past (at this point, most immigrants,
            whether Hispanic or from European countries are marketed all of the same)

            Research has shown that by being aware of the cultural nuances of the
            various ethnic groups we can prevent "foot in mouth" syndrome. :)

            --
            Ana Lydia Ochoa
            padma media & marketing, Inc.
            o.310.598.5735
            c.310.403.5299

            Twitter.com/ LatinaPRpro
            LinkedIn.com/ AnaLydiaOchoa
            Facebook.com/ pages/Los- Angeles-CA/ padma-media- marketing/ 8757051745

            ____________ _________ _________ __
            From: Rich <rarostron@yahoo. com <mailto:rarostron% 40yahoo.com> >
            To: prbytes@yahoogroups .com <mailto:prbytes% 40yahoogroups. com>
            Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 12:45:10 PM
            Subject: Re: [prbytes] RE: [PRMindshare] XP - Swine Flu - Probably not, but
            how to be prepared, just in case ...

            Just out of curiosity, what is a non ethnic group? Don't we all have our own
            particular ethnicity? I think Ned's point is that, were a similar disease to
            take root in the U.S., it might be named the US or American flu. If it
            started in New York, we'd call it the New York flu, or, if it started in
            Chicago, the Chicago flu (I use the example of Chicago because I'm from the
            Chicago area and wouldn't want anyone from New York to think that I'm
            dissing them) as opposed to the Hong Kong flu. If something like this starts
            in Chicago, I'll be far more concerned about not catching the disease, or
            recovering if I do, than in worrying about what they call it. I think we
            have a choice to stretch our minds to see racial/ethnic prejudice, if that's
            what we're inclined to see. Some members of the general public are also so
            inclined. Maybe we should try to set examples that help them out of the
            woods.

            ____________ _________ _________ __
            From: ana lydia ochoa <analydiaochoa@ yahoo.com>
            To: prbytes@yahoogroups .com
            Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 2:12:44 PM
            Subject: Re: [prbytes] RE: [PRMindshare] XP - Swine Flu - Probably not, but
            how to be prepared, just in case ...

            Ned,

            You bring up an issue that comes up time and time again - Hispanic, Asian
            (or any other ethnic group) will find racism in comments or names of
            problems (i.e. Mexican Flu).

            Non-ethnic people will not.

            I won't try to change your mind (or those that don't find it offensive).
            Just know, that for a large group of ethnic (Mexican at that) folks, others
            calling this pandemic flu "Mexican Flu" has allowed many (non ethnic folk)
            to use that against immigrants, etc.

            Case in point - just follow the Twitter comments on the subject.

            However, this is not PR and the topic is probably left alone at this point.

            --
            Ana Lydia Ochoa
            padma media & marketing, Inc.
            o.310.598.5735
            c.310.403.5299

            Twitter.com/ LatinaPRpro
            LinkedIn.com/ AnaLydiaOchoa
            Facebook.com/ pages/Los- Angeles-CA/ padma-media- marketing/ 8757051745

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Ned Barnett
            Ana Adroit side-stepping of the key issue I raised in changing the thread title, and effective self-promotion, too. Congratulations on that. However, I m not
            Message 5 of 22 , May 4, 2009
            • 0 Attachment
              Ana


              Adroit side-stepping of the key issue I raised in changing the thread title,
              and effective self-promotion, too. Congratulations on that. However, I'm
              not going to let go of the core issue here, which is the claim by some that
              you have to be ethnic to promote ethnic (or, as you've restated it, "reach
              ethnic consumers") - which is patent nonsense and a return to the
              professional Jim Crow days that still existed when I started out in this
              business. The best PR person for a client is just that - the best PR person
              for a client. If that person is the best, s/he will be able to reach ethnic
              consumers - if s/he can't reach ethnic consumers, then by definition, s/he
              isn't the best PR person for the client.


              I used a lot of my own examples for a couple of reasons:



              1. You started this whole donnybrook by alleging racism (check it out
              on the list website for your first post on the original "Swine Flu" thread)
              and I will NOT abide by any allegation of even a hint of racism - so I had
              to (at some length) document my colorblind PR and personal views



              2. When anybody is talking about how someone (not ethnic) can
              effectively be the best PR person for the (ethnic) client, they need
              examples and proof - and rather than rely on third-party examples (which may
              be flawed in ways I'm not aware of), I chose to use my own experiences and
              examples, because I know the truth about them



              I wasn't trying to brag or self-promote, as you seem to imply - instead, I
              was "making the case" to refute your limiting (to you and our industry) and
              potentially damaging or destructive (to you and our industry - including me)
              contentions, and I learned a long time ago, when you're trying to prove a
              point in dispute, the more evidence you can present up-front, the more
              likely it will be that people will understand. If you dribble it out,
              sometimes some people see that approach as being defensive.



              As an old college debater (I was #1 in the US in my freshman year), I can
              assure you that having ethnic PR leaders validating your position that only
              ethnic PR pros can provide effective PR for ethnic clients is akin to a
              tautology -a circular argument. Of course those who have a vested interest
              in limiting ethnic PR services to ethnic PR providers (it's a good marketing
              gimmick - limit the competition, downplay and downgrade those wanting to
              become competitors and you've got a locked-in market). If you had "proof"
              from some third-party source (such as an academic peer-reviewed study) that
              didn't have an ax to grind, or if you had personal experiences that are
              relevant (which is another reason why I used so many examples to prove my
              point), that would be legitimate - but advocacy from those who benefit from
              that advocacy is not proof - it's just advocacy. Nothing wrong with
              advocacy - I do it all the time - but it shouldn't be confused with proof.



              But back to the key point. Segregating PR - in essence, "balkanizing" it
              into ethnic preserves - goes against everything that the American civil
              rights movement fought against for a century and more. Separate-but-equal
              is NEVER equal, and even more than many other professions, PR is a
              'meritocracy' - the only thing that matters to the client's bottom line is
              success, and success can be delivered by any individual who has the skills
              to do that. Limiting the pool of those who can succeed to members of an
              ethnic minority is anathema to freedom and counter-productive to the client
              (and, I contend, to the industry). This is critical, especially in a
              society where we seem to be fragmenting more and more - and losing our sense
              of melting-pot we're-all-in-this-together community that contributed so much
              to making America great, and making the American economy the envy of the
              world.


              When it comes to PR, America (and in this statement, I include Canada,
              because in a media sense, we're pretty much one interconnected market) is
              the class of the world. We are the ones others emulate - and we got that
              way by creating a profession based solely on merit. It doesn't matter in PR
              if you're a man or a woman, a black or a white, a Latino or an Asian, gay or
              straight, Republican or Democrat, Christian or Jew (or atheist) - all that
              matters is what you, as a PR person, can deliver for your client and how
              what you deliver impacts their corporate goals (generally the bottom line).
              We are invisible to the public - we work entirely behind the curtain - and
              it matters not at all what we look like or where we come from. All that
              matters is doing our best for our clients (and being the best the client can
              get).


              Sorry to get so soap-box, but I see the racial and ethnic re-ghetto-ization
              of PR (and American business and society) as hugely counter-productive,
              dangerous and a slippery slope back to segregation. The danger is too
              large, and too real, to be ignored. Hence my passion in making a case for
              all PR people, that we're all capable, and the best person for any client is
              just that - the best person. Not the best gay person, or the best black
              person, or the best Latino person, but the best person. Period. All else
              is social engineering, special pleading, mis-placed political correctness or
              clever (but ultimately destructive) market manipulation designed to reduce
              the pool of competitors. Take your pick - none of that's got any place in
              PR. Or so it seems to me.



              One final note - this thread began as an XP (see the thread title) to three
              or four PR lists. From my perspective, when you respond to me on this
              thread, my reply is still XP (cross-posted to all the lists that carried the
              original thread). You're welcome to join any or all of those lists.
              However - and I mean this with no disrespect or discourtesy intended - if
              you don't want your contact information sent to other PR lists (I can't
              imagine why, but that's your choice) on XP threads, either remove your
              contact information or don't reply to XP threads that I start, since I
              routinely (and always have) posted all my replies to all the XP lists that
              have carried the thread. The whole idea of starting a thread on several
              lists (i.e., XP) is to maximize discussion among fellow professionals, and I
              see no benefit in limiting follow-up discussions. FWIW, I sometimes get
              off-list replies, and when it seems appropriate, I answer those on the list
              as well - again, with no disrespect intended, but when I start a list
              discussion, I intend for the thread to live on the list for all to see, and
              for a reason.


              All the best

              Ned



              Ned Barnett, APR

              Marketing/PR Fellow, American Hospital Association



              Barnett Marketing Communications

              420 N. Nellis Blvd. A3-276

              Las Vegas NV 89110



              702-696-1200 - ned@...

              http://www.barnettmarcom.com



              From: prbytes@yahoogroups.com [mailto:prbytes@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
              ana lydia ochoa
              Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 11:46 AM
              To: prbytes@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: XP - Diversity in Public Relations - Good Idea or Bad? (was:
              Ethnic Groups (was: [prbytes] RE: [PRMindshare] XP - Swine Flu - Probably
              not, but how to be prepared, just in case ...








              Ned,

              Yikes - very lengthy email outlining your experience. Frankly, as I stated
              before, this is not a competition nor is it related to this group (as I know
              it, at least). And, having 'ethnic clients' is very different than reaching
              ethnic consumers. And, as most of us in the industry will attest to, ethnic
              outreach in 2000 is very different than ethnic outreach now.

              Great blog posts by key leaders in the industry that validate my comments
              can be found on: hispanictrending.net, hispanicmarketweekly.com and a few
              others.

              That being said, if you'd (and others on this list) would like to build
              relationships with other PR and Mkting pro's that currently work with ethnic
              consumers, you are welcome to join HPRA and AHAA (I am a member of HPRA and
              good friends with board members - very close to AHAA, so I can make intro's
              there if needed).

              I am also starting a weekly conversation on Twitter. You can read last
              week's coversation by searching #ethnicmktng.

              In addition, our agency will be heading a Google or Yahoo group exclusively
              for pro's in the marketing, advertising and PR industry that currently work
              and manage projects that reach ethnic consumers. I will make that
              information available once all the key people are in place.

              Lastly, I noticed that my comments/response are being sent to a list I am
              not part of. In the future, I would appreciate that any comments/emails that
              are being forwarded with my contact name and other information attached be
              OK'd by me first.

              --
              Ana Lydia Ochoa
              padma media & marketing, Inc.
              o.310.598.5735
              c.310.403.5299

              Twitter.com/LatinaPRpro
              LinkedIn.com/AnaLydiaOchoa
              Facebook.com/pages/Los-Angeles-CA/padma-media-marketing/8757051745

              ________________________________
              From: Ned Barnett <ned@... <mailto:ned%40barnettmarcom.com> >
              To: prbytes@yahoogroups.com <mailto:prbytes%40yahoogroups.com>
              Cc: PRMindshare@yahoogroups.com <mailto:PRMindshare%40yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Friday, May 1, 2009 7:16:08 PM
              Subject: XP - Diversity in Public Relations - Good Idea or Bad? (was: Ethnic
              Groups (was: [prbytes] RE: [PRMindshare] XP - Swine Flu - Probably not, but
              how to be prepared, just in case ...

              Ana

              Without intending to, you hit on a professional PR issue that I have given a
              great deal of thought to since the late '60s, back when I was active in the
              Civil Rights movement in the Deep South (Georgia), and which has had a
              profound carry-over into my professional career. That is the issue of
              "diversity" in public relations - and especially the kind of diversity in
              which only those of a certain ethnic persuasion can provide PR services for
              others of that same ethnic persuasion (or at least, that those of a given
              ethnic persuasion are uniquely well-qualified - or profoundly
              better-qualified - to provide PR services to those of the same ethnic
              persuasion) - or, as you said, services that as you said, are "best done by
              professionals of the same ethnic background ."

              I wrote a blog on this in 2006, and I've appended it to the bottom of this
              email (below your comments). I invite you to read it, as it might challenge
              some of your beliefs and get you to look at PR from a broader and more
              inclusive perspective, rather than ghetto-izing PR by insisting that only
              those of a given ethnicity can do the best job for clients who share that
              ethnicity.

              To me, though I do not believe you intended it to be that way, that
              statement (and the belief behind it) is blatantly racist, elitist,
              discriminatory and a throwback to the discredited segregationist
              "separate-but- equal" (that the Supreme Court wisely ruled could never be
              equal) approach to life and work in America.

              Rosa Parks risked her life to ride in the front of the bus; others risked
              their lives to win the right to sit at lunch counters and be served, or to
              buy a house where they wanted to live (instead of where others told them to
              live), or to do business with anyone they chose, regardless of skin color,
              national origin, religious belief (or lack thereof) or ethnicity. To claim
              at this late date, after a half-century of struggle for equality, that those
              who share an ethnicity are in a position to provide PR services, as you
              said, are "best done by professionals of the same ethnic background ."

              My own career is based on the idea that the best PR person can provide the
              best PR services - which is why I've been able to provide highly-successful
              PR services to ethnically-focused businesses and minority-ethnic individuals
              because, in those particular instances, I was the best PR person available
              to do the job. Like a great many others in our field (I can't speak for
              them, but compared to some, I'm an amateur at this), I've won national
              awards for profoundly effective PR programs for:

              . A Cuban-American software expert who has built two separate and
              parallel careers - one serving the Cuban-American (and
              Caribbean/Latin- American) markets, and one serving the majority Anglo
              market
              throughout North America - I got him business-building coverage in both
              Anglo/mainstream business publications and specialty Spanish-language media
              (not because I speak Spanish - because I don't; and not because I'm
              Cuban-American - because I'm not) because I understood his business, his
              market opportunity, and capitalized on both.

              . A Hispanic (non-Cuban) research physician who discovered something
              profoundly significant about cocaine addiction among teens - I got him on
              the Today Show (and in many US publications) again without speaking Spanish.

              . A black-owned and black-focused website on racial healing (aimed
              at blacks, not whites) which is VERY happy with my work

              . A black independent movie producer who put together an "indie"
              film on racial healing (you may see a pattern in my career here) that opened
              at the Fox in Atlanta (as a charity for the King Foundation and the Carter
              Center) that was also shown in "ethnic" theater premiers in the top-ten
              black-population metro markets, and which became the basis for Sunday School
              programs in a variety of denominations (including offering an award for the
              best sermons preached on the subject matter of the film)

              . A "black" hospital and medical school in Nashville that trained 40
              percent of all black physicians in America (at that time - mid-80s) - a
              campaign that generated $29 million dollars in donations (which, by the way,
              saved the hospital and medical college from closing) while dramatically
              raising the visibility and credibility of the college and hospital

              . The Martin Luther King Jr. Memorial Hospital in Miami, which I
              took from a 26-bed hospital and transformed (as project manager, as well as
              PR director) into a 125-bed brand-new hospital located on a Cuban University
              Campus (helping to bring together the black and Cuban communities in the
              wake of the Alvarez riots in the mid-80s), while securing a teaching
              hospital to take over the old 26-bed hospital as a free clinic in one of the
              poorer black communities in Miami (Liberty City) - the program was
              successful financially, in human terms, and it was hugely successful in PR
              terms by several judgments

              . An Egyptian-born physician in a community that had almost no
              Muslims or Arabs (I know Egyptians aren't "quite" Arabs, but that's how he
              was seen in that community) - his practice soared as I was able to offset
              his ethnicity by virtue of his profound medical expertise

              . The first woman plastic surgeon to become President of the Georgia
              Society of Plastic and Reconstructive Surgeons (I promoted her with the
              intent of helping her win this coveted post)

              . A Vietnamese "boat-person" refugee who became the first Asian-born
              woman to head up a major Silicon Valley software (Linux) company - I got her
              coverage in literally every North American business trade publication (we
              had three days of non-stop, ten-hour-per- day, 15-minute interviews - with
              five minutes between them) by understanding what the market wanted to hear
              about this woman, her company and her distinctive background (in part, I did
              this by staging the interviews through Beijing, holding the announcement
              until I could tell the reporters that we'd set up satellite phone interviews
              with her in Beijing while she was negotiating to become the "official
              operating system of the 2008 Olympics"). Oddly, I'm neither a woman nor
              Vietnamese, but I still blew the market apart with this intense and
              intensely positive coverage

              . Early in my career, I won several national design awards from CASE
              and other educationally- based professional societies for a brochure and a
              PR
              campaign designed to recruit non-traditional students into technical career
              paths (women into heavy equipment operation, men into nursing and office
              management, black women into nuclear engineering technology, etc.) - MIT
              later "borrowed" my campaign, lock, stock and barrel (I've always said that
              plagiarism is the sincerest form of flattery) for their own non-traditional
              student recruiting program

              I could go on, and on, and on, but let me just say this: In addition to
              having had "ethnic" clients here in the US, I've had clients in Dubai, the
              PRC, Belarus, Colombia, India, Nigeria - an author who named me in his
              book-dedication - London, South Africa, Canada, French Canada, Romania and a
              fair number of other places - and to an American raised in the Deep South,
              all of those places are also "ethnic" (hell, I wrote a brochure published in
              both Russian and Belarussian - neither of which I read - and I produced an
              ad campaign (print, TV) in Spanish that won national "Hispanic" media awards
              for creativity and effectiveness, and as I've said, I don't read or speak
              Spanish).

              And I'm not alone - I can best speak from my own example, but I know many PR
              professionals who've done exceptionally well with ethnic groups that they
              are not part of. I've also seen PR people who consider themselves "ethnic"
              who've done spectacularly in the mainstream market, or in working
              cross-ethnicity.

              Ana - I find the notion that only Hispanics can best promote Hispanics, or
              only Blacks can best promote Blacks, as counter-productive to PR and to the
              people who espouse it. They generally don't see that (as noted earlier),
              it's Sauce for the Goose, Mr. Savik (i.e., that if you can ghetto-ize PR for
              ethnic minorities, then by the same logic, only whites should be able to
              promote "white" or mainstream companies . and that is both offensive and
              patently untrue . it is also destructive in a way that only those who can
              remember Jim Crow might really be able to understand). I don't believe
              that's your intent, but your position is still segregationist, racist,
              exclusive-ist and lots of other "ists" that America has worked hard for half
              a century to put behind us.

              I have no doubt that there are profoundly good ethnic PR agencies who've
              done remarkable work in their own ethnic communities - I've hired some, and
              partnered with others, and I've seen what they can do. But in every case -
              EVERY CASE - they were effective NOT because they were ethnic (and therefore
              better understood the ethnicity), but because they were superior PR
              professionals at the top of their game. Sadly, some agencies play on their
              ethnicity to land contracts, playing on racism (and reverse racism) and
              other less noble sentiments to win contracts because of their race or
              ethnicity, instead of because of their superior performance. But when the
              playing field is level, the best PR person will always produce and deliver
              the best PR campaign, regardless of his/her ethnicity (and regardless of the
              client's ethnic orientation) .

              Ned Barnett, APR

              Marketing/PR Fellow, American Hospital Association

              Barnett Marketing Communications

              420 N. Nellis Blvd. A3-276

              Las Vegas NV 89110

              702-696-1200 - ned@barnettmarcom. com

              http://www.barnettmarcom.com

              From: prbytes@yahoogroups .com [mailto:prbytes@yahoogroups .com] On Behalf
              Of
              ana lydia ochoa
              Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 4:04 PM
              To: prbytes@yahoogroups .com
              Cc: PRMindshare@ yahoogroups. com
              Subject: Re: Ethnic Groups (was: [prbytes] RE: [PRMindshare] XP - Swine Flu
              - Probably not, but how to be prepared, just in case ...

              Ned,

              You missed my second email on the topic listing the missing ethnic groups
              categorized for both marketing and PR purposes.

              I have spoken and provided insight extensively on the subject of ethnic
              outreach and have many years experience in dealing with Fortune 500
              companies needed my expertise, just as you do. For that reason, I won't
              comment or elaborate on (possible) short-comings of your below referenced
              examples.

              In terms of your personal feelings and background, we should probably leave
              it out of a professional PR board. Otherwise, it could turn quite ugly and
              offend many different folks (As various of your comments below could be
              misinterpreted) .

              One key thing to take-away by other list members is that ethnic PR is a must
              and it's usually done best by professionals of the same ethnic background.
              I.e.

              RL Public Relations - former employer, owned by an Argentinean woman who
              embraces her Mexican-American and South American Staff. This agency has won
              over key Fortune 500 companies over Anglo-run general market firms claiming
              to do Hispanic PR

              VPE PR - Former employer and mentors, owned by two Chicano's, staff is of
              various Hispanic nationalities and reaches out the Hispanic market.

              LaGrant - owned by an African American which does African American and
              Hispanic PR/Advertising

              And of course padma, who has beat-out HUGE NYC agencies run by non-Latinos
              claiming to know the culture and falling flat on their face when we could do
              much more with much less (Sorry for the slight self promotion)

              Happy Friday,
              --
              Ana Lydia Ochoa
              padma media & marketing, Inc.
              o.310.598.5735
              c.310.403.5299

              Twitter.com/ LatinaPRpro
              LinkedIn.com/ AnaLydiaOchoa
              Facebook.com/ pages/Los- Angeles-CA/ padma-media- marketing/ 8757051745

              From my PR Blog:

              Sunday, October 22, 2006

              Diversity in Public Relations - Great Idea or "PC Hell"

              Intro: Recently, we've commemorated the death and birth of Dr. Martin Luther
              King, Jr. - a man who fought for integration and against what we now call
              "diversity" (but what he might have called segregation) . Which is why, I
              guess, this has come up now.

              Recently, the topic of "diversity" came up on a PR list - the poster
              "assumed" that we'd all agree that "diversity" is a good idea, but based on
              35 years of color-blind experience in the PR field, I think that "diversity"
              in public relations staffing is a terrible idea. PR is all about results,
              and the color, ethnic origin, religion, gender or race of the PR
              practitioner is absolutely irrelevant. Or so it seems to me. So I wrote to
              the list the following (which, no surprise, created a fire-storm of
              opposition from the terminally politically correct, and ultimately got me
              booted off the list ... ). So put on your asbestos jockey shorts and enjoy a
              controversy ...

              ****

              Basically, I think that "diversity" is a shibboleth - a false idol that
              distracts us away from what's really important in PR (effective
              communications) ; it also has the negative side effect of dividing people
              when we ought to be pulling them together (it does this by "labeling" people
              and making those labels more important than the people themselves). Let me
              give a few examples of where I'm coming from, then get down to the PR issue.

              I believe in the absolute equality of all people, and think that each person
              should be judged (as Dr. King said) on the quality of their soul, not the
              color of their skin (or their gender, or gender-preference, or any other
              artificial category). I've tried to live my life that way, and I know I've
              tried to conduct my business that way.

              Before I get into what that means to PR, let me give you a bit of background
              which will help to explain why I think "diversity" is a curse for PR, and
              for all PR practitioners, black and white, male and female.

              ******

              When I was in college at the University of Georgia, I was active in the
              local and state civil rights movement - this at a time when the police felt
              it necessary to chase civil rights marchers with batons and leashed dogs.
              One of my proudest moments was my role in helping to desegregate the
              Methodist Church in Georgia - at that time, there were three "conferences" -
              North Georgia (white), South Georgia (white) and Georgia (black). And, at
              that time, the ministers North and South were guaranteed a living wage,
              housing and insurance benefits, retirement and other bennies - all paid for
              by the Conference (churches supplemented that base salary, so some ministers
              made more than others, but all made a living wage, with benefits and
              housing). However, the (black) Georgia Conference ministers had no such
              guarantees; as a result, most black Methodist ministers had full-time
              secular jobs (to support their families), giving their congregations short
              shrift.

              This was discrimination, pure and simple. It not only hurt the ministers, it
              also hurt the black congregations, which needed full-time ministers just as
              much as did the white congregations (besides the fact that it seemed
              essentially at odds with the core message of Christianity, which all who
              were involved professed to believe).

              After lots and lots of behind-the-scenes negotiations, those of us pushing
              for equality arranged for the North Georgia Conference to merge with the
              Georgia Conference - black ministers throughout the state immediately got a
              living wage, benefits and housing - and they got a paid-up retirement plan
              retroactive to the day they were ordained. It was a huge triumph for real
              equality, and I have been proud all my life that I was able to have a hand
              in it.

              That early effort taught me that equality - that we are all the same, and
              should be treated as such - was far more important than diversity (which
              focuses on our differences and tends to separate, rather than connect,
              people). It was a focus on those differences that had led to discrimination
              against black ministers - an evil, in my opinion, not a benefit.

              Later, I became a strong advocate of the Equal Rights Amendment, pushing for
              its passage in South Carolina. Some women (my then-wife included) opposed
              this, because they felt that by being separate (i.e., "diverse") they got
              privileges (i.e., exemption from the military draft and certain other
              obligations that fell solely to men) that would be denied them in a world of
              perfect equality. I disagreed, and even took a leave-of-absence from my job
              to campaign for total equality for all citizens - and, though we didn't use
              the term at that time, I was campaigning against diversity.

              Several years ago, my oldest son got a position on the faculty of a
              state-owned university in Tennessee. This particular university is what's
              known as "a historically black institution, " meaning that it used to be
              segregated (a Jim Crow school) and today most of its students and faculty
              remain black. However, my son had excellent credentials in a field where
              they needed excellent credentials, and in a competitive environment, he was
              hired - one of only three white faculty members in his department.

              In his first year, he had an average of one white student per class (average
              class size, 70) - and sad-but-true, he caught a lot of hostile crap from
              black students who were more interested, apparently, in having black
              professors (which - from their perspective - seemed reasonable to them, as
              they chose to attend a predominantly black state university and had little
              desire to associate with people other than black people) than in learning
              what they were there to study. However, because my son reflects my own views
              on absolute equality of individuals, he's been able to set that hostility
              aside and provide superior education (based on student comments to the Dean
              and his own performance evaluations) .

              If "diversity" had been the absolute policy, my son would have missed a
              valuable job and valuable life experience, and his students would have
              missed the opportunity to see equality in action - to see that they could
              learn as much from a white man as from a black man or woman. In his way, my
              son has been able to break down (at least a bit) racial hatred and prejudice
              merely by showing up, ignoring hostility and providing equal and quality
              education to all his students. "Diversity" would have made that impossible,
              and would have (I am convinced) hurt the students by depriving them of a new
              perspective that has (at least in a few cases) opened their eyes.

              However, as a final aside, though my son was always the top-rated teaching
              professor in his department, he was denied a "tenure-track" contract;
              instead, he worked from semester to semester with no hope for advancement.
              Though he enjoyed his job and liked being able to work in his home town,
              with a family to support, he eventually left to work for a fully-integrated
              university that was willing to put him on a career path.

              More recently, from a libertarian (not "Libertarian" - I'm not a party man)
              position of equality of opportunity, I've strongly supported the idea of Gay
              Marriages (in my view, if Gay individuals want to be married, let them). I
              support this because I don't believe that people are - at their core, down
              where things really matter - different, at least not different in ways that
              should matter when it comes to basic human rights. And because of that, I do
              not think people should not be treated differently because of factors of
              birth or lifestyle choice.

              I've seen the evil of focusing on differences, even in PR - my former
              business partner was gay, but he kept that a secret from everybody because
              he felt that to be himself would cause him to be discriminated against by
              potential clients ... he wanted to be treated just like everybody else, so
              he kept his nature to himself. His "status" didn't come out until after we'd
              closed the agency and he'd found employment with a company that he thought
              wouldn't care (he was wrong - the job lasted three months).

              In a world where all people were seen as equals, where race and gender and
              orientation literally did not matter, this would not have impacted him. But
              he bought into all that "diversity" crap, let the world know something that
              was basically private information between him and his partner (and basically
              none of the world's business), and wound up losing his job. So much, I feel,
              for diversity.

              ******

              Now let's bring this diversity issue home to public relations.

              One of the tenets of "diversity" is that "like" can only talk to (or
              represent) "like" - Gays can only (or at least best) represent Gays, blacks
              can only (or at least best) represent Blacks, etc. Individual skills,
              ability, "heart" - none of that matters. To those who advocate "diversity,"
              only the color of your skin, or your gender, or your orientation (or
              whatever) matters.

              That, to me, is the essence of discrimination, the very thing Dr. King
              fought against so hard, for so long (and for which he ultimately gave his
              life).

              In my career, I have successfully represented Women's organizations (and
              woman-owned companies), though I am not a woman. I have had client firms
              that were owned by blacks (including an independent Hollywood film
              production company owned by one of the former Drifters), yet I am not black.
              I have represented a gay-themed restaurant, Hamburger Mary's, though I am
              not gay. I've represented Christian clients, though I have not (at that
              time) been an active Christian for many years. In each of these cases, I was
              able to succeed on their behalf - not because I was "one of them," but
              because I was, at that time, the best PR person they could find for their
              particular needs. Rather than diversity, I was able to succeed (and feed my
              family) because my clients were willing and able to set the issue of
              "diversity" aside and, instead, go with the best person available for the
              job at hand.

              By the same token, when I was hiring, I have put women in jobs that
              conventional wisdom said could only be filled by men - because the women I
              hired or retained were simply the best-qualified for the job.

              More than once, I've hired or retained black (or Hispanic, or Indian) men
              and women to handle assignments for white (often bigoted white) clients - I
              brought them in because they were the best, not because they were black, or
              Hispanic, or Indian (which should, under a policy of "diversity," have
              precluded them from the assignments) , but because they were the best.

              Just within the last two weeks, I hired a gay man (my former business
              partner) to develop the media portion of a communications plan for a client
              firm (one owned by Catholics and run by some fairly homophobic gents)
              because I knew that my ex-partner was the best person for the job. I didn't
              tell the Catholics that their plan was being developed by a gay guy - it was
              none of their business - but if I had been going with "diversity," I guess
              I'd have had to hire a Catholic homophobe to do the work.

              And this brings me down to the ultimate purpose of public relations.

              We are here to generate results - measurable, meaningful, memorable results.
              When we send an email pitch to a reporter, that reporter doesn't know and
              really doesn't care what our race, gender, religion, orientation, etc. is -
              s/he only cares if our story is newsworthy and our pitch is compelling.

              "Diversity" doesn't enter into it.

              Good PR people - regardless of race, gender and orientation - ought to be
              able to communicate effectively to whites, blacks, Hispanics and other
              races; to men and women, gay or straight or somewhere in between. The only
              meaningful measure is, at least to me, who can do it most effectively.

              The rest is politics, not PR. And while politics doesn't generate favorable
              press coverage, solid PR does.

              So, bottom line, I come down against diversity as it applies to PR - and,
              because it is divisive, rather than inclusive (because it makes categories
              more important than people, and discriminates for or against people based on
              those categories), I come down against diversity (and in favor of absolute
              equality of opportunity) in our society as well.

              I know this isn't politically correct - but I also know that it is (for me,
              and, I think, for everybody who wants to get ahead on his or her own merits,
              who wants to be treated as an individual and valued for who they are as an
              individual) the right way to go, the right thing to do.

              Down off my soap-box, and back to you ...

              ____________ _________ _________ __
              From: Ned Barnett <ned@barnettmarcom. com <mailto:ned% 40barnettmarcom. com>
              >
              To: prbytes@yahoogroups .com <mailto:prbytes% 40yahoogroups. com>
              Cc: PRMindshare@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:PRMindshare %40yahoogroups. com>
              Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 8:14:59 PM
              Subject: Ethnic Groups (was: [prbytes] RE: [PRMindshare] XP - Swine Flu -
              Probably not, but how to be prepared, just in case ...

              Ana - you have missed a major group or two (or three or four) of people who
              consider themselves "ethnic" and expect to be treated (and marketed to) as
              such, or who refuse to be pigeon-holed into your narrow categories of
              ethnicity.

              I think, as Americans, we spend entirely too much time catering to the
              self-imposed sensitivities (and in some cases, hyper-sensitivities ) of
              those
              who consider being "ethnic" important (or perhaps overridingly important).
              To me, having grown up in a bitterly-divided ethnic household (between my
              parents and grandparents we had three ethnicities and four nationalities) ,
              you're either an American or you're not (and if you're not, you're either
              here legally or illegally). Anything else and you're just letting
              "feelings" get in the way of facts, and - by embracing an over-arching
              ethnicity - you're limiting your ability to function in America as an
              American.

              I say this, as I noted, having been raised in a household by a mother born
              into an ethnic ghetto, whose parents were born into two very different
              ethnic ghettos (my grandparents, except for the suicide thing, were a real
              Romeo-and-Juliet couple, and the surviving inlaws still can't stand one
              another, solely because of ethnic hatreds still too common between
              Irish-Catholics and Italian Catholics in Rust-Belt Cleveland). If you've
              never tried to grow up (and grow out of) Little Italy or Little Ireland in
              the Midwestern Rust Belt, then it may be hard to picture those folks as
              "ethnic" - but I guarantee you that the residents of Little Italy/Youngstown
              or Little Ireland/Cleveland took that VERY SERIOUSLY during my childhood
              (and much more intensely in my parents and grandparents growing-up lives).

              However, all this "stuff about ethnicity and discrimination and segregation
              and the "class" being more important than the "individual" is all different
              when it comes to marketing. When you're selling to someone, it only makes
              sense to cater to their self-imposed prejudices and self-images. However,
              if we're going to get particular about ethnic groups for marketing purposes,
              I would offer the following:

              1. Having worked extensively with the Cuban, Puerto Rican and
              Argentinian markets, none of them would want to be considered to be "Latino"
              or "Hispanic" - both of which to them equate to Mexican/Central American,
              while they see themselves as "Spanish-Speaking Europeans" (during the
              Alvarez social altercations [aka "riots"] in the mid-80s, I was told by
              Cuban business partners, who were not kidding, that the quickest way for me
              as an Anglo to get knifed was to refer to a Cuban as a Mexican, or a Latino,
              or a Hispanic). I spent a lot of time marketing to that marketplace (and
              continue to do so), and have not found any increased willingness to be
              considered "Latino" or "Hispanic" among Cuban-Americans.

              2. This distinction was reinforced to me by a New York City Puerto
              Rican who served in the Reagan administration (as Deputy Drug Czar) who also
              refused to be considered a "Latino" or "Hispanic" - but not because he was a
              "Spanish-Speaking European" but for the reason that he was fully
              "Americanized" and wanted to be treated the same as other Americans (for
              instance, when interviewed on Telemundo, he refused to speak in Spanish - a
              surprise to me, as I had to scramble to find a translator for the interview
              I set up for him).

              3. Orthodox Jews (some would say all Jews) are certainly an ethnic
              group all unto themselves; in Miami, they are marketed to as a separate
              ethnic group, quite effectively. For instance, I marketed an "Orthodox"
              hospital in North Miami Beach, even hiring an Orthodox Rabbi on my marketing
              department team, and took a dying-on-the- vine hospital [occupancy 59 out of
              350 beds the day I took over marketing] and filled up "Kosher" units and
              filled the hospital on the Sabbath because all staff were trained and
              required to respect, honor and respond to Orthodox rules for the Sabbath.

              4. If you've ever been to the Detroit area, especially Dearborn, you
              know that Arabic Muslims consider themselves an ethnic minority, and if you
              have ever dealt with CAIR, you know the risk you run when you do NOT treat
              them as an ethnic minority (having marketed an Egyptian-born
              invitro-fertilizati on specialist in both Dearborn and Flint, I know this
              from very first-hand experience)

              5. When it comes to Asians, you cannot lump Chinese, Koreans and
              Japanese with Indians, Bangladeshi and Pakistani markets - they may all be
              from "Asia" but it's the biggest continent and reflect vastly different
              cultures (if you don't believe me, go to Chinatown and ask for curry, or go
              to India-town and ask for mu-shu pork)

              6. I also think that President Obama - the son of an African
              immigrant, instead of the descendent of slaves - makes it clear that there
              is no ethnicity distinction worth mentioning between African-Americans and
              African Immigrants). Colin Powell and my own future daughter-in- law make it
              clear that Jamaican-descent is, once you're born into America, is irrelevant
              - you're still "African-American. " Finally, as both Obama and my future
              daughter-in- law show, someone who is half-African American and half white
              American can freely choose their ethnicity, regardless of their genetic
              heritage (which further calls into question the whole ethnicity thing in my
              opinion). One - raised in a white household, has chosen to be "black,"
              while the other - raised in a black household - has chosen to be "white."
              Both are Americans.

              I could go on. Ask the Kurdish-American or the Armenian-Americans if they
              are "ethnic" . then step back, especially if you want to lump them with
              "white" (though they're a lot closer to real "Caucasians" than are most
              American whites).

              My point (and I do have one)? While ethnic subdivisions are often useful
              for marketing purposes, they get in the way of integrating people into the
              American culture. In addition, those who are over-sensitive (to
              hyper-sensitive) about their ethnicity not only create problems for
              themselves and others, but unless they understand the differences between
              Samoans and Tongans (and can respect those differences) , and who
              acknowledge
              all the other ethnicities that are important to self-defined ethnic
              minorities in America are asking for trouble.

              And if the term "Mexican Flu" hare-lips someone who has no problem referring
              to "Hong Kong Flu," "Spanish Flu" or "Asian Flu," they might want to look at
              their own prejudices and sensitivities. As Spock said to Savik, "Sauce for
              the Goose, Mr. Savik." Unless, of course, they're marketing flu-shots to
              self-defined Latinos or Hispanics, in which case cultural sensitivity is
              important and appropriate.

              Or so it seems to me.

              Ned

              Ned Barnett, APR

              Marketing/PR Fellow, American Hospital Association

              Barnett Marketing Communications

              420 N. Nellis Blvd. A3-276

              Las Vegas NV 89110

              702-696-1200 - ned@barnettmarcom. com

              http://www.barnettmarcom.com

              From: prbytes@yahoogroups .com [mailto:prbytes@ yahoogroups .com] On Behalf
              Of
              ana lydia ochoa
              Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 4:31 PM
              To: prbytes@yahoogroups .com
              Subject: Re: [prbytes] RE: [PRMindshare] XP - Swine Flu - Probably not, but
              how to be prepared, just in case ...

              For Marketing/PR/ Advertising purposes, ethnic groups are categorized as
              follows:

              Latino/Hispanic (also broken down by Spanish speaking, bilingual, new
              immigrants, Portuguese speaking)
              Asian (can also be broken down further by South Asian, Pacific Islanders,
              etc.)
              African American (not to be confused with African immigrants or black
              Latinos)

              The general market, or non-ethnic are categorized as:

              White/Anglo- Saxon
              Immigrated to US 3+ generations past (at this point, most immigrants,
              whether Hispanic or from European countries are marketed all of the same)

              Research has shown that by being aware of the cultural nuances of the
              various ethnic groups we can prevent "foot in mouth" syndrome. :)

              --
              Ana Lydia Ochoa
              padma media & marketing, Inc.
              o.310.598.5735
              c.310.403.5299

              Twitter.com/ LatinaPRpro
              LinkedIn.com/ AnaLydiaOchoa
              Facebook.com/ pages/Los- Angeles-CA/ padma-media- marketing/ 8757051745

              ____________ _________ _________ __
              From: Rich <rarostron@yahoo. com <mailto:rarostron% 40yahoo.com> >
              To: prbytes@yahoogroups .com <mailto:prbytes% 40yahoogroups. com>
              Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 12:45:10 PM
              Subject: Re: [prbytes] RE: [PRMindshare] XP - Swine Flu - Probably not, but
              how to be prepared, just in case ...

              Just out of curiosity, what is a non ethnic group? Don't we all have our own
              particular ethnicity? I think Ned's point is that, were a similar disease to
              take root in the U.S., it might be named the US or American flu. If it
              started in New York, we'd call it the New York flu, or, if it started in
              Chicago, the Chicago flu (I use the example of Chicago because I'm from the
              Chicago area and wouldn't want anyone from New York to think that I'm
              dissing them) as opposed to the Hong Kong flu. If something like this starts
              in Chicago, I'll be far more concerned about not catching the disease, or
              recovering if I do, than in worrying about what they call it. I think we
              have a choice to stretch our minds to see racial/ethnic prejudice, if that's
              what we're inclined to see. Some members of the general public are also so
              inclined. Maybe we should try to set examples that help them out of the
              woods.

              ____________ _________ _________ __
              From: ana lydia ochoa <analydiaochoa@ yahoo.com>
              To: prbytes@yahoogroups .com
              Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 2:12:44 PM
              Subject: Re: [prbytes] RE: [PRMindshare] XP - Swine Flu - Probably not, but
              how to be prepared, just in case ...

              Ned,

              You bring up an issue that comes up time and time again - Hispanic, Asian
              (or any other ethnic group) will find racism in comments or names of
              problems (i.e. Mexican Flu).

              Non-ethnic people will not.

              I won't try to change your mind (or those that don't find it offensive).
              Just know, that for a large group of ethnic (Mexican at that) folks, others
              calling this pandemic flu "Mexican Flu" has allowed many (non ethnic folk)
              to use that against immigrants, etc.

              Case in point - just follow the Twitter comments on the subject.

              However, this is not PR and the topic is probably left alone at this point.

              --
              Ana Lydia Ochoa
              padma media & marketing, Inc.
              o.310.598.5735
              c.310.403.5299

              Twitter.com/ LatinaPRpro
              LinkedIn.com/ AnaLydiaOchoa
              Facebook.com/ pages/Los- Angeles-CA/ padma-media- marketing/ 8757051745

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              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • ana lydia ochoa
              Group members, First let me apologize for one more email from me related to this topic. I was actually planning on deleting this last email and responding to
              Message 6 of 22 , May 4, 2009
              • 0 Attachment
                Group members,

                First let me apologize for one more email from me related to this topic. I was actually planning on deleting this last email and responding to Ned directly. But weighing the pro's and con's I realized that the reading material coming my way might be longer than what I have already received :)

                So, in the interest of time and respect to those that a. don't care, or b. are over the subject matter, I will bullet point my answers to what I feel are of importance (relating to ethnic pr/marketing):

                - In order to properly reach an ethnic consumer, you have to live and breath his reality, do accurate and independent research, and speak to us in a culturally relevant fashion. (in a nutshell, it's obviously more involved than that). Can a non-ethnic marketer/PR pro do this? Yes. Can they do it well? IMHO No. And various sites have eluded to that. To that matter, just because a PR/marketing PRO is ethnic it doesn't immediately equate to them being able to reach out to ethnic consumers.

                - An ethnic brand or ethnic-owned company may not need or want to reach ethnic consumers. If an ethnic brand is looking to reach a "general market" than an ethnic (experienced) agency will not be a match for them.

                - Ethnic marketing has evolved many times over in the last 10 years. In LA alone, we have grown from three (Spanish-language) TV stations to more than six. Media has grown from zero South Asian pub's to more than 50 on a national basis; Hispanic to more than 500 in the US alone!

                - Key organizations to join are HPRA (Hispanic PR pros - not all doing ethnic PR), CCNMA (Chicano News Media Association), to name a few. Please hit me offline if you would like more recommendations.

                You, as well as Ned, can disagree (that is the point of being in a group with various and diverse viewpoints and experience) or agree. Heck, I welcome your insights.

                But, at this time, I think the subject matter has been over killed. I would like to ask Ned (actually plead) at this point to leave the subject and move on to avoid killing another Blackberry and making Sprint rich (which is exactly what happened this weekend).

                Again, if anyone wants to continue discussing ethnic marketing, please do join us on a weekly chat on Twitter by following #ethnicmktng. The great news is, insight will be limited to 140 characters at a time :)

                --
                Ana Lydia Ochoa
                padma media & marketing, Inc.
                o.310.598.5735
                c.310.403.5299

                Twitter.com/LatinaPRpro
                LinkedIn.com/AnaLydiaOchoa
                Facebook.com/pages/Los-Angeles-CA/padma-media-marketing/8757051745








                ________________________________
                From: Ned Barnett <ned@...>
                To: prbytes@yahoogroups.com
                Cc: PRMindshare@yahoogroups.com; SmallShopNetwork@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Monday, May 4, 2009 12:43:12 PM
                Subject: RE: XP - Diversity in Public Relations - Good Idea or Bad? (was: Ethnic Groups (was: [prbytes] RE: [PRMindshare] XP - Swine Flu - Probably not, but how to be prepared, just in case ...





                Ana

                Adroit side-stepping of the key issue I raised in changing the thread title,
                and effective self-promotion, too. Congratulations on that. However, I'm
                not going to let go of the core issue here, which is the claim by some that
                you have to be ethnic to promote ethnic (or, as you've restated it, "reach
                ethnic consumers") - which is patent nonsense and a return to the
                professional Jim Crow days that still existed when I started out in this
                business. The best PR person for a client is just that - the best PR person
                for a client. If that person is the best, s/he will be able to reach ethnic
                consumers - if s/he can't reach ethnic consumers, then by definition, s/he
                isn't the best PR person for the client.

                I used a lot of my own examples for a couple of reasons:

                1. You started this whole donnybrook by alleging racism (check it out
                on the list website for your first post on the original "Swine Flu" thread)
                and I will NOT abide by any allegation of even a hint of racism - so I had
                to (at some length) document my colorblind PR and personal views

                2. When anybody is talking about how someone (not ethnic) can
                effectively be the best PR person for the (ethnic) client, they need
                examples and proof - and rather than rely on third-party examples (which may
                be flawed in ways I'm not aware of), I chose to use my own experiences and
                examples, because I know the truth about them

                I wasn't trying to brag or self-promote, as you seem to imply - instead, I
                was "making the case" to refute your limiting (to you and our industry) and
                potentially damaging or destructive (to you and our industry - including me)
                contentions, and I learned a long time ago, when you're trying to prove a
                point in dispute, the more evidence you can present up-front, the more
                likely it will be that people will understand. If you dribble it out,
                sometimes some people see that approach as being defensive.

                As an old college debater (I was #1 in the US in my freshman year), I can
                assure you that having ethnic PR leaders validating your position that only
                ethnic PR pros can provide effective PR for ethnic clients is akin to a
                tautology -a circular argument. Of course those who have a vested interest
                in limiting ethnic PR services to ethnic PR providers (it's a good marketing
                gimmick - limit the competition, downplay and downgrade those wanting to
                become competitors and you've got a locked-in market). If you had "proof"
                from some third-party source (such as an academic peer-reviewed study) that
                didn't have an ax to grind, or if you had personal experiences that are
                relevant (which is another reason why I used so many examples to prove my
                point), that would be legitimate - but advocacy from those who benefit from
                that advocacy is not proof - it's just advocacy. Nothing wrong with
                advocacy - I do it all the time - but it shouldn't be confused with proof.

                But back to the key point. Segregating PR - in essence, "balkanizing" it
                into ethnic preserves - goes against everything that the American civil
                rights movement fought against for a century and more. Separate-but- equal
                is NEVER equal, and even more than many other professions, PR is a
                'meritocracy' - the only thing that matters to the client's bottom line is
                success, and success can be delivered by any individual who has the skills
                to do that. Limiting the pool of those who can succeed to members of an
                ethnic minority is anathema to freedom and counter-productive to the client
                (and, I contend, to the industry). This is critical, especially in a
                society where we seem to be fragmenting more and more - and losing our sense
                of melting-pot we're-all-in- this-together community that contributed so much
                to making America great, and making the American economy the envy of the
                world.

                When it comes to PR, America (and in this statement, I include Canada,
                because in a media sense, we're pretty much one interconnected market) is
                the class of the world. We are the ones others emulate - and we got that
                way by creating a profession based solely on merit. It doesn't matter in PR
                if you're a man or a woman, a black or a white, a Latino or an Asian, gay or
                straight, Republican or Democrat, Christian or Jew (or atheist) - all that
                matters is what you, as a PR person, can deliver for your client and how
                what you deliver impacts their corporate goals (generally the bottom line).
                We are invisible to the public - we work entirely behind the curtain - and
                it matters not at all what we look like or where we come from. All that
                matters is doing our best for our clients (and being the best the client can
                get).

                Sorry to get so soap-box, but I see the racial and ethnic re-ghetto-ization
                of PR (and American business and society) as hugely counter-productive,
                dangerous and a slippery slope back to segregation. The danger is too
                large, and too real, to be ignored. Hence my passion in making a case for
                all PR people, that we're all capable, and the best person for any client is
                just that - the best person. Not the best gay person, or the best black
                person, or the best Latino person, but the best person. Period. All else
                is social engineering, special pleading, mis-placed political correctness or
                clever (but ultimately destructive) market manipulation designed to reduce
                the pool of competitors. Take your pick - none of that's got any place in
                PR. Or so it seems to me.

                One final note - this thread began as an XP (see the thread title) to three
                or four PR lists. From my perspective, when you respond to me on this
                thread, my reply is still XP (cross-posted to all the lists that carried the
                original thread). You're welcome to join any or all of those lists.
                However - and I mean this with no disrespect or discourtesy intended - if
                you don't want your contact information sent to other PR lists (I can't
                imagine why, but that's your choice) on XP threads, either remove your
                contact information or don't reply to XP threads that I start, since I
                routinely (and always have) posted all my replies to all the XP lists that
                have carried the thread. The whole idea of starting a thread on several
                lists (i.e., XP) is to maximize discussion among fellow professionals, and I
                see no benefit in limiting follow-up discussions. FWIW, I sometimes get
                off-list replies, and when it seems appropriate, I answer those on the list
                as well - again, with no disrespect intended, but when I start a list
                discussion, I intend for the thread to live on the list for all to see, and
                for a reason.

                All the best

                Ned

                Ned Barnett, APR

                Marketing/PR Fellow, American Hospital Association

                Barnett Marketing Communications

                420 N. Nellis Blvd. A3-276

                Las Vegas NV 89110

                702-696-1200 - ned@barnettmarcom. com

                http://www.barnettmarcom.com

                From: prbytes@yahoogroups .com [mailto:prbytes@yahoogroups .com] On Behalf Of
                ana lydia ochoa
                Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 11:46 AM
                To: prbytes@yahoogroups .com
                Subject: Re: XP - Diversity in Public Relations - Good Idea or Bad? (was:
                Ethnic Groups (was: [prbytes] RE: [PRMindshare] XP - Swine Flu - Probably
                not, but how to be prepared, just in case ...

                Ned,

                Yikes - very lengthy email outlining your experience. Frankly, as I stated
                before, this is not a competition nor is it related to this group (as I know
                it, at least). And, having 'ethnic clients' is very different than reaching
                ethnic consumers. And, as most of us in the industry will attest to, ethnic
                outreach in 2000 is very different than ethnic outreach now.

                Great blog posts by key leaders in the industry that validate my comments
                can be found on: hispanictrending. net, hispanicmarketweekl y.com and a few
                others.

                That being said, if you'd (and others on this list) would like to build
                relationships with other PR and Mkting pro's that currently work with ethnic
                consumers, you are welcome to join HPRA and AHAA (I am a member of HPRA and
                good friends with board members - very close to AHAA, so I can make intro's
                there if needed).

                I am also starting a weekly conversation on Twitter. You can read last
                week's coversation by searching #ethnicmktng.

                In addition, our agency will be heading a Google or Yahoo group exclusively
                for pro's in the marketing, advertising and PR industry that currently work
                and manage projects that reach ethnic consumers. I will make that
                information available once all the key people are in place.

                Lastly, I noticed that my comments/response are being sent to a list I am
                not part of. In the future, I would appreciate that any comments/emails that
                are being forwarded with my contact name and other information attached be
                OK'd by me first.

                --
                Ana Lydia Ochoa
                padma media & marketing, Inc.
                o.310.598.5735
                c.310.403.5299

                Twitter.com/ LatinaPRpro
                LinkedIn.com/ AnaLydiaOchoa
                Facebook.com/ pages/Los- Angeles-CA/ padma-media- marketing/ 8757051745

                ____________ _________ _________ __
                From: Ned Barnett <ned@barnettmarcom. com <mailto:ned% 40barnettmarcom. com> >
                To: prbytes@yahoogroups .com <mailto:prbytes% 40yahoogroups. com>
                Cc: PRMindshare@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:PRMindshare %40yahoogroups. com>
                Sent: Friday, May 1, 2009 7:16:08 PM
                Subject: XP - Diversity in Public Relations - Good Idea or Bad? (was: Ethnic
                Groups (was: [prbytes] RE: [PRMindshare] XP - Swine Flu - Probably not, but
                how to be prepared, just in case ...

                Ana

                Without intending to, you hit on a professional PR issue that I have given a
                great deal of thought to since the late '60s, back when I was active in the
                Civil Rights movement in the Deep South (Georgia), and which has had a
                profound carry-over into my professional career. That is the issue of
                "diversity" in public relations - and especially the kind of diversity in
                which only those of a certain ethnic persuasion can provide PR services for
                others of that same ethnic persuasion (or at least, that those of a given
                ethnic persuasion are uniquely well-qualified - or profoundly
                better-qualified - to provide PR services to those of the same ethnic
                persuasion) - or, as you said, services that as you said, are "best done by
                professionals of the same ethnic background ."

                I wrote a blog on this in 2006, and I've appended it to the bottom of this
                email (below your comments). I invite you to read it, as it might challenge
                some of your beliefs and get you to look at PR from a broader and more
                inclusive perspective, rather than ghetto-izing PR by insisting that only
                those of a given ethnicity can do the best job for clients who share that
                ethnicity.

                To me, though I do not believe you intended it to be that way, that
                statement (and the belief behind it) is blatantly racist, elitist,
                discriminatory and a throwback to the discredited segregationist
                "separate-but- equal" (that the Supreme Court wisely ruled could never be
                equal) approach to life and work in America.

                Rosa Parks risked her life to ride in the front of the bus; others risked
                their lives to win the right to sit at lunch counters and be served, or to
                buy a house where they wanted to live (instead of where others told them to
                live), or to do business with anyone they chose, regardless of skin color,
                national origin, religious belief (or lack thereof) or ethnicity. To claim
                at this late date, after a half-century of struggle for equality, that those
                who share an ethnicity are in a position to provide PR services, as you
                said, are "best done by professionals of the same ethnic background ."

                My own career is based on the idea that the best PR person can provide the
                best PR services - which is why I've been able to provide highly-successful
                PR services to ethnically-focused businesses and minority-ethnic individuals
                because, in those particular instances, I was the best PR person available
                to do the job. Like a great many others in our field (I can't speak for
                them, but compared to some, I'm an amateur at this), I've won national
                awards for profoundly effective PR programs for:

                . A Cuban-American software expert who has built two separate and
                parallel careers - one serving the Cuban-American (and
                Caribbean/Latin- American) markets, and one serving the majority Anglo
                market
                throughout North America - I got him business-building coverage in both
                Anglo/mainstream business publications and specialty Spanish-language media
                (not because I speak Spanish - because I don't; and not because I'm
                Cuban-American - because I'm not) because I understood his business, his
                market opportunity, and capitalized on both.

                . A Hispanic (non-Cuban) research physician who discovered something
                profoundly significant about cocaine addiction among teens - I got him on
                the Today Show (and in many US publications) again without speaking Spanish.

                . A black-owned and black-focused website on racial healing (aimed
                at blacks, not whites) which is VERY happy with my work

                . A black independent movie producer who put together an "indie"
                film on racial healing (you may see a pattern in my career here) that opened
                at the Fox in Atlanta (as a charity for the King Foundation and the Carter
                Center) that was also shown in "ethnic" theater premiers in the top-ten
                black-population metro markets, and which became the basis for Sunday School
                programs in a variety of denominations (including offering an award for the
                best sermons preached on the subject matter of the film)

                . A "black" hospital and medical school in Nashville that trained 40
                percent of all black physicians in America (at that time - mid-80s) - a
                campaign that generated $29 million dollars in donations (which, by the way,
                saved the hospital and medical college from closing) while dramatically
                raising the visibility and credibility of the college and hospital

                . The Martin Luther King Jr. Memorial Hospital in Miami, which I
                took from a 26-bed hospital and transformed (as project manager, as well as
                PR director) into a 125-bed brand-new hospital located on a Cuban University
                Campus (helping to bring together the black and Cuban communities in the
                wake of the Alvarez riots in the mid-80s), while securing a teaching
                hospital to take over the old 26-bed hospital as a free clinic in one of the
                poorer black communities in Miami (Liberty City) - the program was
                successful financially, in human terms, and it was hugely successful in PR
                terms by several judgments

                . An Egyptian-born physician in a community that had almost no
                Muslims or Arabs (I know Egyptians aren't "quite" Arabs, but that's how he
                was seen in that community) - his practice soared as I was able to offset
                his ethnicity by virtue of his profound medical expertise

                . The first woman plastic surgeon to become President of the Georgia
                Society of Plastic and Reconstructive Surgeons (I promoted her with the
                intent of helping her win this coveted post)

                . A Vietnamese "boat-person" refugee who became the first Asian-born
                woman to head up a major Silicon Valley software (Linux) company - I got her
                coverage in literally every North American business trade publication (we
                had three days of non-stop, ten-hour-per- day, 15-minute interviews - with
                five minutes between them) by understanding what the market wanted to hear
                about this woman, her company and her distinctive background (in part, I did
                this by staging the interviews through Beijing, holding the announcement
                until I could tell the reporters that we'd set up satellite phone interviews
                with her in Beijing while she was negotiating to become the "official
                operating system of the 2008 Olympics"). Oddly, I'm neither a woman nor
                Vietnamese, but I still blew the market apart with this intense and
                intensely positive coverage

                . Early in my career, I won several national design awards from CASE
                and other educationally- based professional societies for a brochure and a
                PR
                campaign designed to recruit non-traditional students into technical career
                paths (women into heavy equipment operation, men into nursing and office
                management, black women into nuclear engineering technology, etc.) - MIT
                later "borrowed" my campaign, lock, stock and barrel (I've always said that
                plagiarism is the sincerest form of flattery) for their own non-traditional
                student recruiting program

                I could go on, and on, and on, but let me just say this: In addition to
                having had "ethnic" clients here in the US, I've had clients in Dubai, the
                PRC, Belarus, Colombia, India, Nigeria - an author who named me in his
                book-dedication - London, South Africa, Canada, French Canada, Romania and a
                fair number of other places - and to an American raised in the Deep South,
                all of those places are also "ethnic" (hell, I wrote a brochure published in
                both Russian and Belarussian - neither of which I read - and I produced an
                ad campaign (print, TV) in Spanish that won national "Hispanic" media awards
                for creativity and effectiveness, and as I've said, I don't read or speak
                Spanish).

                And I'm not alone - I can best speak from my own example, but I know many PR
                professionals who've done exceptionally well with ethnic groups that they
                are not part of. I've also seen PR people who consider themselves "ethnic"
                who've done spectacularly in the mainstream market, or in working
                cross-ethnicity.

                Ana - I find the notion that only Hispanics can best promote Hispanics, or
                only Blacks can best promote Blacks, as counter-productive to PR and to the
                people who espouse it. They generally don't see that (as noted earlier),
                it's Sauce for the Goose, Mr. Savik (i.e., that if you can ghetto-ize PR for
                ethnic minorities, then by the same logic, only whites should be able to
                promote "white" or mainstream companies . and that is both offensive and
                patently untrue . it is also destructive in a way that only those who can
                remember Jim Crow might really be able to understand). I don't believe
                that's your intent, but your position is still segregationist, racist,
                exclusive-ist and lots of other "ists" that America has worked hard for half
                a century to put behind us.

                I have no doubt that there are profoundly good ethnic PR agencies who've
                done remarkable work in their own ethnic communities - I've hired some, and
                partnered with others, and I've seen what they can do. But in every case -
                EVERY CASE - they were effective NOT because they were ethnic (and therefore
                better understood the ethnicity), but because they were superior PR
                professionals at the top of their game. Sadly, some agencies play on their
                ethnicity to land contracts, playing on racism (and reverse racism) and
                other less noble sentiments to win contracts because of their race or
                ethnicity, instead of because of their superior performance. But when the
                playing field is level, the best PR person will always produce and deliver
                the best PR campaign, regardless of his/her ethnicity (and regardless of the
                client's ethnic orientation) .

                Ned Barnett, APR

                Marketing/PR Fellow, American Hospital Association

                Barnett Marketing Communications

                420 N. Nellis Blvd. A3-276

                Las Vegas NV 89110

                702-696-1200 - ned@barnettmarcom. com

                http://www.barnettmarcom.com

                From: prbytes@yahoogroups .com [mailto:prbytes@ yahoogroups .com] On Behalf
                Of
                ana lydia ochoa
                Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 4:04 PM
                To: prbytes@yahoogroups .com
                Cc: PRMindshare@ yahoogroups. com
                Subject: Re: Ethnic Groups (was: [prbytes] RE: [PRMindshare] XP - Swine Flu
                - Probably not, but how to be prepared, just in case ...

                Ned,

                You missed my second email on the topic listing the missing ethnic groups
                categorized for both marketing and PR purposes.

                I have spoken and provided insight extensively on the subject of ethnic
                outreach and have many years experience in dealing with Fortune 500
                companies needed my expertise, just as you do. For that reason, I won't
                comment or elaborate on (possible) short-comings of your below referenced
                examples.

                In terms of your personal feelings and background, we should probably leave
                it out of a professional PR board. Otherwise, it could turn quite ugly and
                offend many different folks (As various of your comments below could be
                misinterpreted) .

                One key thing to take-away by other list members is that ethnic PR is a must
                and it's usually done best by professionals of the same ethnic background.
                I.e.

                RL Public Relations - former employer, owned by an Argentinean woman who
                embraces her Mexican-American and South American Staff. This agency has won
                over key Fortune 500 companies over Anglo-run general market firms claiming
                to do Hispanic PR

                VPE PR - Former employer and mentors, owned by two Chicano's, staff is of
                various Hispanic nationalities and reaches out the Hispanic market.

                LaGrant - owned by an African American which does African American and
                Hispanic PR/Advertising

                And of course padma, who has beat-out HUGE NYC agencies run by non-Latinos
                claiming to know the culture and falling flat on their face when we could do
                much more with much less (Sorry for the slight self promotion)

                Happy Friday,
                --
                Ana Lydia Ochoa
                padma media & marketing, Inc.
                o.310.598.5735
                c.310.403.5299

                Twitter.com/ LatinaPRpro
                LinkedIn.com/ AnaLydiaOchoa
                Facebook.com/ pages/Los- Angeles-CA/ padma-media- marketing/ 8757051745

                From my PR Blog:

                Sunday, October 22, 2006

                Diversity in Public Relations - Great Idea or "PC Hell"

                Intro: Recently, we've commemorated the death and birth of Dr. Martin Luther
                King, Jr. - a man who fought for integration and against what we now call
                "diversity" (but what he might have called segregation) . Which is why, I
                guess, this has come up now.

                Recently, the topic of "diversity" came up on a PR list - the poster
                "assumed" that we'd all agree that "diversity" is a good idea, but based on
                35 years of color-blind experience in the PR field, I think that "diversity"
                in public relations staffing is a terrible idea. PR is all about results,
                and the color, ethnic origin, religion, gender or race of the PR
                practitioner is absolutely irrelevant. Or so it seems to me. So I wrote to
                the list the following (which, no surprise, created a fire-storm of
                opposition from the terminally politically correct, and ultimately got me
                booted off the list ... ). So put on your asbestos jockey shorts and enjoy a
                controversy ...

                ****

                Basically, I think that "diversity" is a shibboleth - a false idol that
                distracts us away from what's really important in PR (effective
                communications) ; it also has the negative side effect of dividing people
                when we ought to be pulling them together (it does this by "labeling" people
                and making those labels more important than the people themselves). Let me
                give a few examples of where I'm coming from, then get down to the PR issue.

                I believe in the absolute equality of all people, and think that each person
                should be judged (as Dr. King said) on the quality of their soul, not the
                color of their skin (or their gender, or gender-preference, or any other
                artificial category). I've tried to live my life that way, and I know I've
                tried to conduct my business that way.

                Before I get into what that means to PR, let me give you a bit of background
                which will help to explain why I think "diversity" is a curse for PR, and
                for all PR practitioners, black and white, male and female.

                ******

                When I was in college at the University of Georgia, I was active in the
                local and state civil rights movement - this at a time when the police felt
                it necessary to chase civil rights marchers with batons and leashed dogs.
                One of my proudest moments was my role in helping to desegregate the
                Methodist Church in Georgia - at that time, there were three "conferences" -
                North Georgia (white), South Georgia (white) and Georgia (black). And, at
                that time, the ministers North and South were guaranteed a living wage,
                housing and insurance benefits, retirement and other bennies - all paid for
                by the Conference (churches supplemented that base salary, so some ministers
                made more than others, but all made a living wage, with benefits and
                housing). However, the (black) Georgia Conference ministers had no such
                guarantees; as a result, most black Methodist ministers had full-time
                secular jobs (to support their families), giving their congregations short
                shrift.

                This was discrimination, pure and simple. It not only hurt the ministers, it
                also hurt the black congregations, which needed full-time ministers just as
                much as did the white congregations (besides the fact that it seemed
                essentially at odds with the core message of Christianity, which all who
                were involved professed to believe).

                After lots and lots of behind-the-scenes negotiations, those of us pushing
                for equality arranged for the North Georgia Conference to merge with the
                Georgia Conference - black ministers throughout the state immediately got a
                living wage, benefits and housing - and they got a paid-up retirement plan
                retroactive to the day they were ordained. It was a huge triumph for real
                equality, and I have been proud all my life that I was able to have a hand
                in it.

                That early effort taught me that equality - that we are all the same, and
                should be treated as such - was far more important than diversity (which
                focuses on our differences and tends to separate, rather than connect,
                people). It was a focus on those differences that had led to discrimination
                against black ministers - an evil, in my opinion, not a benefit.

                Later, I became a strong advocate of the Equal Rights Amendment, pushing for
                its passage in South Carolina. Some women (my then-wife included) opposed
                this, because they felt that by being separate (i.e., "diverse") they got
                privileges (i.e., exemption from the military draft and certain other
                obligations that fell solely to men) that would be denied them in a world of
                perfect equality. I disagreed, and even took a leave-of-absence from my job
                to campaign for total equality for all citizens - and, though we didn't use
                the term at that time, I was campaigning against diversity.

                Several years ago, my oldest son got a position on the faculty of a
                state-owned university in Tennessee. This particular university is what's
                known as "a historically black institution, " meaning that it used to be
                segregated (a Jim Crow school) and today most of its students and faculty
                remain black. However, my son had excellent credentials in a field where
                they needed excellent credentials, and in a competitive environment, he was
                hired - one of only three white faculty members in his department.

                In his first year, he had an average of one white student per class (average
                class size, 70) - and sad-but-true, he caught a lot of hostile crap from
                black students who were more interested, apparently, in having black
                professors (which - from their perspective - seemed reasonable to them, as
                they chose to attend a predominantly black state university and had little
                desire to associate with people other than black people) than in learning
                what they were there to study. However, because my son reflects my own views
                on absolute equality of individuals, he's been able to set that hostility
                aside and provide superior education (based on student comments to the Dean
                and his own performance evaluations) .

                If "diversity" had been the absolute policy, my son would have missed a
                valuable job and valuable life experience, and his students would have
                missed the opportunity to see equality in action - to see that they could
                learn as much from a white man as from a black man or woman. In his way, my
                son has been able to break down (at least a bit) racial hatred and prejudice
                merely by showing up, ignoring hostility and providing equal and quality
                education to all his students. "Diversity" would have made that impossible,
                and would have (I am convinced) hurt the students by depriving them of a new
                perspective that has (at least in a few cases) opened their eyes.

                However, as a final aside, though my son was always the top-rated teaching
                professor in his department, he was denied a "tenure-track" contract;
                instead, he worked from semester to semester with no hope for advancement.
                Though he enjoyed his job and liked being able to work in his home town,
                with a family to support, he eventually left to work for a fully-integrated
                university that was willing to put him on a career path.

                More recently, from a libertarian (not "Libertarian" - I'm not a party man)
                position of equality of opportunity, I've strongly supported the idea of Gay
                Marriages (in my view, if Gay individuals want to be married, let them). I
                support this because I don't believe that people are - at their core, down
                where things really matter - different, at least not different in ways that
                should matter when it comes to basic human rights. And because of that, I do
                not think people should not be treated differently because of factors of
                birth or lifestyle choice.

                I've seen the evil of focusing on differences, even in PR - my former
                business partner was gay, but he kept that a secret from everybody because
                he felt that to be himself would cause him to be discriminated against by
                potential clients ... he wanted to be treated just like everybody else, so
                he kept his nature to himself. His "status" didn't come out until after we'd
                closed the agency and he'd found employment with a company that he thought
                wouldn't care (he was wrong - the job lasted three months).

                In a world where all people were seen as equals, where race and gender and
                orientation literally did not matter, this would not have impacted him. But
                he bought into all that "diversity" crap, let the world know something that
                was basically private information between him and his partner (and basically
                none of the world's business), and wound up losing his job. So much, I feel,
                for diversity.

                ******

                Now let's bring this diversity issue home to public relations.

                One of the tenets of "diversity" is that "like" can only talk to (or
                represent) "like" - Gays can only (or at least best) represent Gays, blacks
                can only (or at least best) represent Blacks, etc. Individual skills,
                ability, "heart" - none of that matters. To those who advocate "diversity,"
                only the color of your skin, or your gender, or your orientation (or
                whatever) matters.

                That, to me, is the essence of discrimination, the very thing Dr. King
                fought against so hard, for so long (and for which he ultimately gave his
                life).

                In my career, I have successfully represented Women's organizations (and
                woman-owned companies), though I am not a woman. I have had client firms
                that were owned by blacks (including an independent Hollywood film
                production company owned by one of the former Drifters), yet I am not black.
                I have represented a gay-themed restaurant, Hamburger Mary's, though I am
                not gay. I've represented Christian clients, though I have not (at that
                time) been an active Christian for many years. In each of these cases, I was
                able to succeed on their behalf - not because I was "one of them," but
                because I was, at that time, the best PR person they could find for their
                particular needs. Rather than diversity, I was able to succeed (and feed my
                family) because my clients were willing and able to set the issue of
                "diversity" aside and, instead, go with the best person available for the
                job at hand.

                By the same token, when I was hiring, I have put women in jobs that
                conventional wisdom said could only be filled by men - because the women I
                hired or retained were simply the best-qualified for the job.

                More than once, I've hired or retained black (or Hispanic, or Indian) men
                and women to handle assignments for white (often bigoted white) clients - I
                brought them in because they were the best, not because they were black, or
                Hispanic, or Indian (which should, under a policy of "diversity," have
                precluded them from the assignments) , but because they were the best.

                Just within the last two weeks, I hired a gay man (my former business
                partner) to develop the media portion of a communications plan for a client
                firm (one owned by Catholics and run by some fairly homophobic gents)
                because I knew that my ex-partner was the best person for the job. I didn't
                tell the Catholics that their plan was being developed by a gay guy - it was
                none of their business - but if I had been going with "diversity," I guess
                I'd have had to hire a Catholic homophobe to do the work.

                And this brings me down to the ultimate purpose of public relations.

                We are here to generate results - measurable, meaningful, memorable results.
                When we send an email pitch to a reporter, that reporter doesn't know and
                really doesn't care what our race, gender, religion, orientation, etc. is -
                s/he only cares if our story is newsworthy and our pitch is compelling.

                "Diversity" doesn't enter into it.

                Good PR people - regardless of race, gender and orientation - ought to be
                able to communicate effectively to whites, blacks, Hispanics and other
                races; to men and women, gay or straight or somewhere in between. The only
                meaningful measure is, at least to me, who can do it most effectively.

                The rest is politics, not PR. And while politics doesn't generate favorable
                press coverage, solid PR does.

                So, bottom line, I come down against diversity as it applies to PR - and,
                because it is divisive, rather than inclusive (because it makes categories
                more important than people, and discriminates for or against people based on
                those categories), I come down against diversity (and in favor of absolute
                equality of opportunity) in our society as well.

                I know this isn't politically correct - but I also know that it is (for me,
                and, I think, for everybody who wants to get ahead on his or her own merits,
                who wants to be treated as an individual and valued for who they are as an
                individual) the right way to go, the right thing to do.

                Down off my soap-box, and back to you ...

                ____________ _________ _________ __
                From: Ned Barnett <ned@barnettmarcom. com <mailto:ned% 40barnettmarcom. com>
                >
                To: prbytes@yahoogroups .com <mailto:prbytes% 40yahoogroups. com>
                Cc: PRMindshare@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:PRMindshare %40yahoogroups. com>
                Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 8:14:59 PM
                Subject: Ethnic Groups (was: [prbytes] RE: [PRMindshare] XP - Swine Flu -
                Probably not, but how to be prepared, just in case ...

                Ana - you have missed a major group or two (or three or four) of people who
                consider themselves "ethnic" and expect to be treated (and marketed to) as
                such, or who refuse to be pigeon-holed into your narrow categories of
                ethnicity.

                I think, as Americans, we spend entirely too much time catering to the
                self-imposed sensitivities (and in some cases, hyper-sensitivities ) of
                those
                who consider being "ethnic" important (or perhaps overridingly important).
                To me, having grown up in a bitterly-divided ethnic household (between my
                parents and grandparents we had three ethnicities and four nationalities) ,
                you're either an American or you're not (and if you're not, you're either
                here legally or illegally). Anything else and you're just letting
                "feelings" get in the way of facts, and - by embracing an over-arching
                ethnicity - you're limiting your ability to function in America as an
                American.

                I say this, as I noted, having been raised in a household by a mother born
                into an ethnic ghetto, whose parents were born into two very different
                ethnic ghettos (my grandparents, except for the suicide thing, were a real
                Romeo-and-Juliet couple, and the surviving inlaws still can't stand one
                another, solely because of ethnic hatreds still too common between
                Irish-Catholics and Italian Catholics in Rust-Belt Cleveland). If you've
                never tried to grow up (and grow out of) Little Italy or Little Ireland in
                the Midwestern Rust Belt, then it may be hard to picture those folks as
                "ethnic" - but I guarantee you that the residents of Little Italy/Youngstown
                or Little Ireland/Cleveland took that VERY SERIOUSLY during my childhood
                (and much more intensely in my parents and grandparents growing-up lives).

                However, all this "stuff about ethnicity and discrimination and segregation
                and the "class" being more important than the "individual" is all different
                when it comes to marketing. When you're selling to someone, it only makes
                sense to cater to their self-imposed prejudices and self-images. However,
                if we're going to get particular about ethnic groups for marketing purposes,
                I would offer the following:

                1. Having worked extensively with the Cuban, Puerto Rican and
                Argentinian markets, none of them would want to be considered to be "Latino"
                or "Hispanic" - both of which to them equate to Mexican/Central American,
                while they see themselves as "Spanish-Speaking Europeans" (during the
                Alvarez social altercations [aka "riots"] in the mid-80s, I was told by
                Cuban business partners, who were not kidding, that the quickest way for me
                as an Anglo to get knifed was to refer to a Cuban as a Mexican, or a Latino,
                or a Hispanic). I spent a lot of time marketing to that marketplace (and
                continue to do so), and have not found any increased willingness to be
                considered "Latino" or "Hispanic" among Cuban-Americans.

                2. This distinction was reinforced to me by a New York City Puerto
                Rican who served in the Reagan administration (as Deputy Drug Czar) who also
                refused to be considered a "Latino" or "Hispanic" - but not because he was a
                "Spanish-Speaking European" but for the reason that he was fully
                "Americanized" and wanted to be treated the same as other Americans (for
                instance, when interviewed on Telemundo, he refused to speak in Spanish - a
                surprise to me, as I had to scramble to find a translator for the interview
                I set up for him).

                3. Orthodox Jews (some would say all Jews) are certainly an ethnic
                group all unto themselves; in Miami, they are marketed to as a separate
                ethnic group, quite effectively. For instance, I marketed an "Orthodox"
                hospital in North Miami Beach, even hiring an Orthodox Rabbi on my marketing
                department team, and took a dying-on-the- vine hospital [occupancy 59 out of
                350 beds the day I took over marketing] and filled up "Kosher" units and
                filled the hospital on the Sabbath because all staff were trained and
                required to respect, honor and respond to Orthodox rules for the Sabbath.

                4. If you've ever been to the Detroit area, especially Dearborn, you
                know that Arabic Muslims consider themselves an ethnic minority, and if you
                have ever dealt with CAIR, you know the risk you run when you do NOT treat
                them as an ethnic minority (having marketed an Egyptian-born
                invitro-fertilizati on specialist in both Dearborn and Flint, I know this
                from very first-hand experience)

                5. When it comes to Asians, you cannot lump Chinese, Koreans and
                Japanese with Indians, Bangladeshi and Pakistani markets - they may all be
                from "Asia" but it's the biggest continent and reflect vastly different
                cultures (if you don't believe me, go to Chinatown and ask for curry, or go
                to India-town and ask for mu-shu pork)

                6. I also think that President Obama - the son of an African
                immigrant, instead of the descendent of slaves - makes it clear that there
                is no ethnicity distinction worth mentioning between African-Americans and
                African Immigrants). Colin Powell and my own future daughter-in- law make it
                clear that Jamaican-descent is, once you're born into America, is irrelevant
                - you're still "African-American. " Finally, as both Obama and my future
                daughter-in- law show, someone who is half-African American and half white
                American can freely choose their ethnicity, regardless of their genetic
                heritage (which further calls into question the whole ethnicity thing in my
                opinion). One - raised in a white household, has chosen to be "black,"
                while the other - raised in a black household - has chosen to be "white."
                Both are Americans.

                I could go on. Ask the Kurdish-American or the Armenian-Americans if they
                are "ethnic" . then step back, especially if you want to lump them with
                "white" (though they're a lot closer to real "Caucasians" than are most
                American whites).

                My point (and I do have one)? While ethnic subdivisions are often useful
                for marketing purposes, they get in the way of integrating people into the
                American culture. In addition, those who are over-sensitive (to
                hyper-sensitive) about their ethnicity not only create problems for
                themselves and others, but unless they understand the differences between
                Samoans and Tongans (and can respect those differences) , and who
                acknowledge
                all the other ethnicities that are important to self-defined ethnic
                minorities in America are asking for trouble.

                And if the term "Mexican Flu" hare-lips someone who has no problem referring
                to "Hong Kong Flu," "Spanish Flu" or "Asian Flu," they might want to look at
                their own prejudices and sensitivities. As Spock said to Savik, "Sauce for
                the Goose, Mr. Savik." Unless, of course, they're marketing flu-shots to
                self-defined Latinos or Hispanics, in which case cultural sensitivity is
                important and appropriate.

                Or so it seems to me.

                Ned

                Ned Barnett, APR

                Marketing/PR Fellow, American Hospital Association

                Barnett Marketing Communications

                420 N. Nellis Blvd. A3-276

                Las Vegas NV 89110

                702-696-1200 - ned@barnettmarcom. com

                http://www.barnettmarcom.com

                From: prbytes@yahoogroups .com [mailto:prbytes@ yahoogroups .com] On Behalf
                Of
                ana lydia ochoa
                Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 4:31 PM
                To: prbytes@yahoogroups .com
                Subject: Re: [prbytes] RE: [PRMindshare] XP - Swine Flu - Probably not, but
                how to be prepared, just in case ...

                For Marketing/PR/ Advertising purposes, ethnic groups are categorized as
                follows:

                Latino/Hispanic (also broken down by Spanish speaking, bilingual, new
                immigrants, Portuguese speaking)
                Asian (can also be broken down further by South Asian, Pacific Islanders,
                etc.)
                African American (not to be confused with African immigrants or black
                Latinos)

                The general market, or non-ethnic are categorized as:

                White/Anglo- Saxon
                Immigrated to US 3+ generations past (at this point, most immigrants,
                whether Hispanic or from European countries are marketed all of the same)

                Research has shown that by being aware of the cultural nuances of the
                various ethnic groups we can prevent "foot in mouth" syndrome. :)

                --
                Ana Lydia Ochoa
                padma media & marketing, Inc.
                o.310.598.5735
                c.310.403.5299

                Twitter.com/ LatinaPRpro
                LinkedIn.com/ AnaLydiaOchoa
                Facebook.com/ pages/Los- Angeles-CA/ padma-media- marketing/ 8757051745

                ____________ _________ _________ __
                From: Rich <rarostron@yahoo. com <mailto:rarostron% 40yahoo.com> >
                To: prbytes@yahoogroups .com <mailto:prbytes% 40yahoogroups. com>
                Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 12:45:10 PM
                Subject: Re: [prbytes] RE: [PRMindshare] XP - Swine Flu - Probably not, but
                how to be prepared, just in case ...

                Just out of curiosity, what is a non ethnic group? Don't we all have our own
                particular ethnicity? I think Ned's point is that, were a similar disease to
                take root in the U.S., it might be named the US or American flu. If it
                started in New York, we'd call it the New York flu, or, if it started in
                Chicago, the Chicago flu (I use the example of Chicago because I'm from the
                Chicago area and wouldn't want anyone from New York to think that I'm
                dissing them) as opposed to the Hong Kong flu. If something like this starts
                in Chicago, I'll be far more concerned about not catching the disease, or
                recovering if I do, than in worrying about what they call it. I think we
                have a choice to stretch our minds to see racial/ethnic prejudice, if that's
                what we're inclined to see. Some members of the general public are also so
                inclined. Maybe we should try to set examples that help them out of the
                woods.

                ____________ _________ _________ __
                From: ana lydia ochoa <analydiaochoa@ yahoo.com>
                To: prbytes@yahoogroups .com
                Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 2:12:44 PM
                Subject: Re: [prbytes] RE: [PRMindshare] XP - Swine Flu - Probably not, but
                how to be prepared, just in case ...

                Ned,

                You bring up an issue that comes up time and time again - Hispanic, Asian
                (or any other ethnic group) will find racism in comments or names of
                problems (i.e. Mexican Flu).

                Non-ethnic people will not.

                I won't try to change your mind (or those that don't find it offensive).
                Just know, that for a large group of ethnic (Mexican at that) folks, others
                calling this pandemic flu "Mexican Flu" has allowed many (non ethnic folk)
                to use that against immigrants, etc.

                Case in point - just follow the Twitter comments on the subject.

                However, this is not PR and the topic is probably left alone at this point.

                --
                Ana Lydia Ochoa
                padma media & marketing, Inc.
                o.310.598.5735
                c.310.403.5299

                Twitter.com/ LatinaPRpro
                LinkedIn.com/ AnaLydiaOchoa
                Facebook.com/ pages/Los- Angeles-CA/ padma-media- marketing/ 8757051745

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              • Stephen Rafe
                Hi Ana and Ned -- At first, I wondered whether we (the list members) might be better served if your dialog were taken private. However, having read through the
                Message 7 of 22 , May 5, 2009
                • 0 Attachment
                  Hi Ana and Ned --

                  At first, I wondered whether we (the list members) might be better served if
                  your dialog were taken private. However, having read through the posts from
                  both of you, I have been able to "mine" some very useful points. In
                  particular, ethnic marketing to the Hispanic cluster has changed in the past
                  5 to 10 years (so I'm now looking into how it might have changed with other
                  ethnic groups as well). Second, you have reminded us that ethnic clients are
                  different from ethnic customers or consumers. Third, opportunities exist for
                  all of us here to learn about other cultures and ethnicities through
                  membership in groups available to us. And there's more.

                  I parting, a retired doctor friend of mine was just remarking about the
                  change of the name of the flu for reasons of accuracy. However, in a moment
                  of inaccuracy himself, he said, "It's much better to call it by it's real
                  name -- R2D2."

                  Stephen
                  STEPHEN RAFE
                  RAPPORT COMMUNICATIONS
                • Deon Binneman
                  Just one thought that perhaps have been missed. Where all men think alike, no one thinks. I have read all the pros and cons and obviously there are arguments
                  Message 8 of 22 , May 5, 2009
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Just one thought that perhaps have been missed.



                    Where all men think alike, no one thinks. I have read all the pros and cons
                    and obviously there are arguments for both sides, but we must not forget
                    what the purpose of PR and communication is...is it not to effect some form
                    of change?



                    Using a variety of inputs and perspectives are vital to come up with
                    groundbreaking campaigns. It is about using the collective opinion and
                    thoughtpower. Some time ago I shared something on another list that you may
                    find thought provoking.



                    I am also for the concept of inclusiveness. We need to embrace, consume,
                    assimilate and come up with something new.



                    To do this we take a close look at the process of Growth. George Land, in
                    his book Grow or die, linked the biological facts of growth to the
                    psychological process of human and organisational life. Land found that it
                    is a biological imperative that we grow or die. If we aren't growing we are
                    dying.



                    An organisation can be simplistically defined as a group of people trying to
                    do something together. Therefore the only way an organisation can sustain
                    growth is if its members are growing.



                    The definition of Growth: The process that occurs when we reach out to our
                    environment, take in nutritional materials and reformulate them until they
                    become part of ourselves. An organisation is also defined as a living
                    system, which functions in an ever-changing environment. For the
                    organisation to survive, it will be critical to adjust to the changes in the
                    environment. A basic need of all people is to grow, to be creative, to make
                    a contribution.



                    In the book Productive Workplaces, Marvin Weisbord writes that: " In a
                    learning organisation, you do not need walls. When everybody has a chance to
                    learn, grow, and achieve, when mistakes become okay, when a lot of people
                    get in on the action there is a great deal more control in the system
                    -self-control. It's the strongest kind, but it can't be bought, legislated,
                    or behaviourally-scienced in"



                    People seek to grow by absorbing informational material and using that
                    material to think, communicate, socialize, invent, create, build, destroy,
                    play and act in a 1000 different ways.



                    Growth is a requirement of life. Long past the time when our physical
                    growth ceases, our need for mental growth continues. There is no such thing
                    as a long-term viable status quo.



                    Three Types of Growth



                    1. Expanding - an increase in size without a basic change of nature.
                    Expansion is about growing to our genetically determined size - physically
                    and mentally. (Forming)



                    2. Extending - an organism extends itself by reproducing or joining with
                    similar others. At some point in its growth cycle, an apple tree stops
                    getting bigger and begins to produce apples.In order to survive all
                    organisms find a way to biologically reproduce themselves. We humans also
                    extend ourselves by connecting with friends, family and organizations. We
                    choose people and groups that are like ourselves in some way and these
                    groups become an extension of our self. (Norming)



                    3. Evolving - the gradual change over time toward a more complex and better
                    adapted form. This comes through interaction with other organisms and the
                    environment by way of mutual exchange of information. There is a search for
                    possibilities, a willingness to push back apparent boundaries and become
                    something new. (Fulfilling)



                    Between each phase is a "breakpoint" - a period of fundamental change, which
                    requires a shift in basic thinking patterns and altering of our world view
                    (shared assumptions about how the world works)(Paradigm shift?)



                    The Link between the Growth Process and Creativity



                    The growth process relates directly to our drive to create. Often we talk
                    about creativity as if it is a God given talent. The point is: It is not a
                    talent or a personality quirk, it's the fundamental fact of human nature.
                    Joyce Wycoff has the following to say about it: "Creativity is neither
                    positive or negative..It is a neutral tool for changing our environment. A
                    bulldozer can be used to clear space for a new health facility, level an old
                    forest or destroy a church.



                    A Bulldozer is a bulldozer.creativity is creativity. How we use it is our
                    choice."



                    Transforming our organisations will necessitate fuelling and nourishing the
                    various stages of growth.



                    How to nourish each "stage" of growth:



                    Expansion - First basic physical needs must be met: food, shelter, clothing,
                    and security. Mental expansion comes from free availability of materials
                    and experiences. This is the "dry sponge" stage. The environment should be
                    rich with information that stimulates all the senses.



                    Nourishers: Sensory stimulants such as music, color, texture, tastes,
                    shapes, books, games, toys, magazines, animals, field trips, training
                    sessions, nature hikes and other experiences.



                    Barriers: Poverty, disease, inadequate education system, warfare, sterile
                    environments, monotonous routines, low self-esteem, dysfunctional families,
                    lack of support or encouragement.



                    Extension - needs for affiliation and connection must be met through
                    interaction with other people and identification with groups and
                    organizations.



                    Nourishers: Social events, group projects, plays, readings, recitals, dances
                    and meetings, common eating areas, central water coolers, accessible
                    conference rooms, newsletters, c-mail, telephones, foxes, organization
                    t-shirts, buttons, bumper stickers. stationery, business cards, uniforms,
                    membership cards.

                    Barriers: Chain of command communication structure, excessive rules or
                    bureaucracy, rigid organizational charts, favoritism or cronyism, walls or
                    barriers between people, enforced silence or excessive noise levels that
                    prevent interaction.

                    Evolution - Willingness to change and reach the outer limits of our
                    potential combine with our need for self-actualization and service. We must
                    have a high level of exchange of information between ourselves and diverse
                    groups and the environment. There needs to be a safe environment for change
                    and -experimentation.



                    Nourishers: Interaction between diverse groups, field trips, job exchanges,
                    cross training, cross-functional teams, tolerance of mistakes, support for
                    risk taking.



                    Barriers: Bigotry in any form, pyramidal hierarchies, restrictions in
                    communication flow, lack of organizational direction and vision, harsh
                    punishment of mistakes.



                    Question: Is your organization nourishing the growth of every individual?
                    Are any of the growth barriers evident in your group, team, department,
                    family, church, school or community? How can you begin to get rid of them?









                    DEON BINNEMAN

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                    Reputation Management Consultant, Speaker & Trainer



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                    From: prbytes@yahoogroups.com [mailto:prbytes@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                    ana lydia ochoa
                    Sent: 05 May 2009 02:52 AM
                    To: prbytes@yahoogroups.com
                    Cc: PRMindshare@yahoogroups.com; SmallShopNetwork@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: XP - Diversity in Public Relations - Good Idea or Bad? (was:
                    Ethnic Groups (was: [prbytes] RE: [PRMindshare] XP - Swine Flu - Probably
                    not, but how to be prepared, just in case ...








                    Group members,

                    First let me apologize for one more email from me related to this topic. I
                    was actually planning on deleting this last email and responding to Ned
                    directly. But weighing the pro's and con's I realized that the reading
                    material coming my way might be longer than what I have already received :)

                    So, in the interest of time and respect to those that a. don't care, or b.
                    are over the subject matter, I will bullet point my answers to what I feel
                    are of importance (relating to ethnic pr/marketing):

                    - In order to properly reach an ethnic consumer, you have to live and breath
                    his reality, do accurate and independent research, and speak to us in a
                    culturally relevant fashion. (in a nutshell, it's obviously more involved
                    than that). Can a non-ethnic marketer/PR pro do this? Yes. Can they do it
                    well? IMHO No. And various sites have eluded to that. To that matter, just
                    because a PR/marketing PRO is ethnic it doesn't immediately equate to them
                    being able to reach out to ethnic consumers.

                    - An ethnic brand or ethnic-owned company may not need or want to reach
                    ethnic consumers. If an ethnic brand is looking to reach a "general market"
                    than an ethnic (experienced) agency will not be a match for them.

                    - Ethnic marketing has evolved many times over in the last 10 years. In LA
                    alone, we have grown from three (Spanish-language) TV stations to more than
                    six. Media has grown from zero South Asian pub's to more than 50 on a
                    national basis; Hispanic to more than 500 in the US alone!

                    - Key organizations to join are HPRA (Hispanic PR pros - not all doing
                    ethnic PR), CCNMA (Chicano News Media Association), to name a few. Please
                    hit me offline if you would like more recommendations.

                    You, as well as Ned, can disagree (that is the point of being in a group
                    with various and diverse viewpoints and experience) or agree. Heck, I
                    welcome your insights.

                    But, at this time, I think the subject matter has been over killed. I would
                    like to ask Ned (actually plead) at this point to leave the subject and move
                    on to avoid killing another Blackberry and making Sprint rich (which is
                    exactly what happened this weekend).

                    Again, if anyone wants to continue discussing ethnic marketing, please do
                    join us on a weekly chat on Twitter by following #ethnicmktng. The great
                    news is, insight will be limited to 140 characters at a time :)

                    --
                    Ana Lydia Ochoa
                    padma media & marketing, Inc.
                    o.310.598.5735
                    c.310.403.5299

                    Twitter.com/LatinaPRpro
                    LinkedIn.com/AnaLydiaOchoa
                    Facebook.com/pages/Los-Angeles-CA/padma-media-marketing/8757051745

                    ________________________________
                    From: Ned Barnett <ned@... <mailto:ned%40barnettmarcom.com> >
                    To: prbytes@yahoogroups.com <mailto:prbytes%40yahoogroups.com>
                    Cc: PRMindshare@yahoogroups.com <mailto:PRMindshare%40yahoogroups.com> ;
                    SmallShopNetwork@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SmallShopNetwork%40yahoogroups.com>

                    Sent: Monday, May 4, 2009 12:43:12 PM
                    Subject: RE: XP - Diversity in Public Relations - Good Idea or Bad? (was:
                    Ethnic Groups (was: [prbytes] RE: [PRMindshare] XP - Swine Flu - Probably
                    not, but how to be prepared, just in case ...

                    Ana

                    Adroit side-stepping of the key issue I raised in changing the thread title,
                    and effective self-promotion, too. Congratulations on that. However, I'm
                    not going to let go of the core issue here, which is the claim by some that
                    you have to be ethnic to promote ethnic (or, as you've restated it, "reach
                    ethnic consumers") - which is patent nonsense and a return to the
                    professional Jim Crow days that still existed when I started out in this
                    business. The best PR person for a client is just that - the best PR person
                    for a client. If that person is the best, s/he will be able to reach ethnic
                    consumers - if s/he can't reach ethnic consumers, then by definition, s/he
                    isn't the best PR person for the client.

                    I used a lot of my own examples for a couple of reasons:

                    1. You started this whole donnybrook by alleging racism (check it out
                    on the list website for your first post on the original "Swine Flu" thread)
                    and I will NOT abide by any allegation of even a hint of racism - so I had
                    to (at some length) document my colorblind PR and personal views

                    2. When anybody is talking about how someone (not ethnic) can
                    effectively be the best PR person for the (ethnic) client, they need
                    examples and proof - and rather than rely on third-party examples (which may
                    be flawed in ways I'm not aware of), I chose to use my own experiences and
                    examples, because I know the truth about them

                    I wasn't trying to brag or self-promote, as you seem to imply - instead, I
                    was "making the case" to refute your limiting (to you and our industry) and
                    potentially damaging or destructive (to you and our industry - including me)
                    contentions, and I learned a long time ago, when you're trying to prove a
                    point in dispute, the more evidence you can present up-front, the more
                    likely it will be that people will understand. If you dribble it out,
                    sometimes some people see that approach as being defensive.

                    As an old college debater (I was #1 in the US in my freshman year), I can
                    assure you that having ethnic PR leaders validating your position that only
                    ethnic PR pros can provide effective PR for ethnic clients is akin to a
                    tautology -a circular argument. Of course those who have a vested interest
                    in limiting ethnic PR services to ethnic PR providers (it's a good marketing
                    gimmick - limit the competition, downplay and downgrade those wanting to
                    become competitors and you've got a locked-in market). If you had "proof"
                    from some third-party source (such as an academic peer-reviewed study) that
                    didn't have an ax to grind, or if you had personal experiences that are
                    relevant (which is another reason why I used so many examples to prove my
                    point), that would be legitimate - but advocacy from those who benefit from
                    that advocacy is not proof - it's just advocacy. Nothing wrong with
                    advocacy - I do it all the time - but it shouldn't be confused with proof.

                    But back to the key point. Segregating PR - in essence, "balkanizing" it
                    into ethnic preserves - goes against everything that the American civil
                    rights movement fought against for a century and more. Separate-but- equal
                    is NEVER equal, and even more than many other professions, PR is a
                    'meritocracy' - the only thing that matters to the client's bottom line is
                    success, and success can be delivered by any individual who has the skills
                    to do that. Limiting the pool of those who can succeed to members of an
                    ethnic minority is anathema to freedom and counter-productive to the client
                    (and, I contend, to the industry). This is critical, especially in a
                    society where we seem to be fragmenting more and more - and losing our sense
                    of melting-pot we're-all-in- this-together community that contributed so
                    much
                    to making America great, and making the American economy the envy of the
                    world.

                    When it comes to PR, America (and in this statement, I include Canada,
                    because in a media sense, we're pretty much one interconnected market) is
                    the class of the world. We are the ones others emulate - and we got that
                    way by creating a profession based solely on merit. It doesn't matter in PR
                    if you're a man or a woman, a black or a white, a Latino or an Asian, gay or
                    straight, Republican or Democrat, Christian or Jew (or atheist) - all that
                    matters is what you, as a PR person, can deliver for your client and how
                    what you deliver impacts their corporate goals (generally the bottom line).
                    We are invisible to the public - we work entirely behind the curtain - and
                    it matters not at all what we look like or where we come from. All that
                    matters is doing our best for our clients (and being the best the client can
                    get).

                    Sorry to get so soap-box, but I see the racial and ethnic re-ghetto-ization
                    of PR (and American business and society) as hugely counter-productive,
                    dangerous and a slippery slope back to segregation. The danger is too
                    large, and too real, to be ignored. Hence my passion in making a case for
                    all PR people, that we're all capable, and the best person for any client is
                    just that - the best person. Not the best gay person, or the best black
                    person, or the best Latino person, but the best person. Period. All else
                    is social engineering, special pleading, mis-placed political correctness or
                    clever (but ultimately destructive) market manipulation designed to reduce
                    the pool of competitors. Take your pick - none of that's got any place in
                    PR. Or so it seems to me.

                    One final note - this thread began as an XP (see the thread title) to three
                    or four PR lists. From my perspective, when you respond to me on this
                    thread, my reply is still XP (cross-posted to all the lists that carried the
                    original thread). You're welcome to join any or all of those lists.
                    However - and I mean this with no disrespect or discourtesy intended - if
                    you don't want your contact information sent to other PR lists (I can't
                    imagine why, but that's your choice) on XP threads, either remove your
                    contact information or don't reply to XP threads that I start, since I
                    routinely (and always have) posted all my replies to all the XP lists that
                    have carried the thread. The whole idea of starting a thread on several
                    lists (i.e., XP) is to maximize discussion among fellow professionals, and I
                    see no benefit in limiting follow-up discussions. FWIW, I sometimes get
                    off-list replies, and when it seems appropriate, I answer those on the list
                    as well - again, with no disrespect intended, but when I start a list
                    discussion, I intend for the thread to live on the list for all to see, and
                    for a reason.

                    All the best

                    Ned

                    Ned Barnett, APR

                    Marketing/PR Fellow, American Hospital Association

                    Barnett Marketing Communications

                    420 N. Nellis Blvd. A3-276

                    Las Vegas NV 89110

                    702-696-1200 - ned@barnettmarcom. com

                    http://www.barnettmarcom.com

                    From: prbytes@yahoogroups .com [mailto:prbytes@yahoogroups .com] On Behalf
                    Of
                    ana lydia ochoa
                    Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 11:46 AM
                    To: prbytes@yahoogroups .com
                    Subject: Re: XP - Diversity in Public Relations - Good Idea or Bad? (was:
                    Ethnic Groups (was: [prbytes] RE: [PRMindshare] XP - Swine Flu - Probably
                    not, but how to be prepared, just in case ...

                    Ned,

                    Yikes - very lengthy email outlining your experience. Frankly, as I stated
                    before, this is not a competition nor is it related to this group (as I know
                    it, at least). And, having 'ethnic clients' is very different than reaching
                    ethnic consumers. And, as most of us in the industry will attest to, ethnic
                    outreach in 2000 is very different than ethnic outreach now.

                    Great blog posts by key leaders in the industry that validate my comments
                    can be found on: hispanictrending. net, hispanicmarketweekl y.com and a few
                    others.

                    That being said, if you'd (and others on this list) would like to build
                    relationships with other PR and Mkting pro's that currently work with ethnic
                    consumers, you are welcome to join HPRA and AHAA (I am a member of HPRA and
                    good friends with board members - very close to AHAA, so I can make intro's
                    there if needed).

                    I am also starting a weekly conversation on Twitter. You can read last
                    week's coversation by searching #ethnicmktng.

                    In addition, our agency will be heading a Google or Yahoo group exclusively
                    for pro's in the marketing, advertising and PR industry that currently work
                    and manage projects that reach ethnic consumers. I will make that
                    information available once all the key people are in place.

                    Lastly, I noticed that my comments/response are being sent to a list I am
                    not part of. In the future, I would appreciate that any comments/emails that
                    are being forwarded with my contact name and other information attached be
                    OK'd by me first.

                    --
                    Ana Lydia Ochoa
                    padma media & marketing, Inc.
                    o.310.598.5735
                    c.310.403.5299

                    Twitter.com/ LatinaPRpro
                    LinkedIn.com/ AnaLydiaOchoa
                    Facebook.com/ pages/Los- Angeles-CA/ padma-media- marketing/ 8757051745

                    ____________ _________ _________ __
                    From: Ned Barnett <ned@barnettmarcom. com <mailto:ned% 40barnettmarcom. com>
                    >
                    To: prbytes@yahoogroups .com <mailto:prbytes% 40yahoogroups. com>
                    Cc: PRMindshare@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:PRMindshare %40yahoogroups. com>
                    Sent: Friday, May 1, 2009 7:16:08 PM
                    Subject: XP - Diversity in Public Relations - Good Idea or Bad? (was: Ethnic
                    Groups (was: [prbytes] RE: [PRMindshare] XP - Swine Flu - Probably not, but
                    how to be prepared, just in case ...

                    Ana

                    Without intending to, you hit on a professional PR issue that I have given a
                    great deal of thought to since the late '60s, back when I was active in the
                    Civil Rights movement in the Deep South (Georgia), and which has had a
                    profound carry-over into my professional career. That is the issue of
                    "diversity" in public relations - and especially the kind of diversity in
                    which only those of a certain ethnic persuasion can provide PR services for
                    others of that same ethnic persuasion (or at least, that those of a given
                    ethnic persuasion are uniquely well-qualified - or profoundly
                    better-qualified - to provide PR services to those of the same ethnic
                    persuasion) - or, as you said, services that as you said, are "best done by
                    professionals of the same ethnic background ."

                    I wrote a blog on this in 2006, and I've appended it to the bottom of this
                    email (below your comments). I invite you to read it, as it might challenge
                    some of your beliefs and get you to look at PR from a broader and more
                    inclusive perspective, rather than ghetto-izing PR by insisting that only
                    those of a given ethnicity can do the best job for clients who share that
                    ethnicity.

                    To me, though I do not believe you intended it to be that way, that
                    statement (and the belief behind it) is blatantly racist, elitist,
                    discriminatory and a throwback to the discredited segregationist
                    "separate-but- equal" (that the Supreme Court wisely ruled could never be
                    equal) approach to life and work in America.

                    Rosa Parks risked her life to ride in the front of the bus; others risked
                    their lives to win the right to sit at lunch counters and be served, or to
                    buy a house where they wanted to live (instead of where others told them to
                    live), or to do business with anyone they chose, regardless of skin color,
                    national origin, religious belief (or lack thereof) or ethnicity. To claim
                    at this late date, after a half-century of struggle for equality, that those
                    who share an ethnicity are in a position to provide PR services, as you
                    said, are "best done by professionals of the same ethnic background ."

                    My own career is based on the idea that the best PR person can provide the
                    best PR services - which is why I've been able to provide highly-successful
                    PR services to ethnically-focused businesses and minority-ethnic individuals
                    because, in those particular instances, I was the best PR person available
                    to do the job. Like a great many others in our field (I can't speak for
                    them, but compared to some, I'm an amateur at this), I've won national
                    awards for profoundly effective PR programs for:

                    . A Cuban-American software expert who has built two separate and
                    parallel careers - one serving the Cuban-American (and
                    Caribbean/Latin- American) markets, and one serving the majority Anglo
                    market
                    throughout North America - I got him business-building coverage in both
                    Anglo/mainstream business publications and specialty Spanish-language media
                    (not because I speak Spanish - because I don't; and not because I'm
                    Cuban-American - because I'm not) because I understood his business, his
                    market opportunity, and capitalized on both.

                    . A Hispanic (non-Cuban) research physician who discovered something
                    profoundly significant about cocaine addiction among teens - I got him on
                    the Today Show (and in many US publications) again without speaking Spanish.

                    . A black-owned and black-focused website on racial healing (aimed
                    at blacks, not whites) which is VERY happy with my work

                    . A black independent movie producer who put together an "indie"
                    film on racial healing (you may see a pattern in my career here) that opened
                    at the Fox in Atlanta (as a charity for the King Foundation and the Carter
                    Center) that was also shown in "ethnic" theater premiers in the top-ten
                    black-population metro markets, and which became the basis for Sunday School
                    programs in a variety of denominations (including offering an award for the
                    best sermons preached on the subject matter of the film)

                    . A "black" hospital and medical school in Nashville that trained 40
                    percent of all black physicians in America (at that time - mid-80s) - a
                    campaign that generated $29 million dollars in donations (which, by the way,
                    saved the hospital and medical college from closing) while dramatically
                    raising the visibility and credibility of the college and hospital

                    . The Martin Luther King Jr. Memorial Hospital in Miami, which I
                    took from a 26-bed hospital and transformed (as project manager, as well as
                    PR director) into a 125-bed brand-new hospital located on a Cuban University
                    Campus (helping to bring together the black and Cuban communities in the
                    wake of the Alvarez riots in the mid-80s), while securing a teaching
                    hospital to take over the old 26-bed hospital as a free clinic in one of the
                    poorer black communities in Miami (Liberty City) - the program was
                    successful financially, in human terms, and it was hugely successful in PR
                    terms by several judgments

                    . An Egyptian-born physician in a community that had almost no
                    Muslims or Arabs (I know Egyptians aren't "quite" Arabs, but that's how he
                    was seen in that community) - his practice soared as I was able to offset
                    his ethnicity by virtue of his profound medical expertise

                    . The first woman plastic surgeon to become President of the Georgia
                    Society of Plastic and Reconstructive Surgeons (I promoted her with the
                    intent of helping her win this coveted post)

                    . A Vietnamese "boat-person" refugee who became the first Asian-born
                    woman to head up a major Silicon Valley software (Linux) company - I got her
                    coverage in literally every North American business trade publication (we
                    had three days of non-stop, ten-hour-per- day, 15-minute interviews - with
                    five minutes between them) by understanding what the market wanted to hear
                    about this woman, her company and her distinctive background (in part, I did
                    this by staging the interviews through Beijing, holding the announcement
                    until I could tell the reporters that we'd set up satellite phone interviews
                    with her in Beijing while she was negotiating to become the "official
                    operating system of the 2008 Olympics"). Oddly, I'm neither a woman nor
                    Vietnamese, but I still blew the market apart with this intense and
                    intensely positive coverage

                    . Early in my career, I won several national design awards from CASE
                    and other educationally- based professional societies for a brochure and a
                    PR
                    campaign designed to recruit non-traditional students into technical career
                    paths (women into heavy equipment operation, men into nursing and office
                    management, black women into nuclear engineering technology, etc.) - MIT
                    later "borrowed" my campaign, lock, stock and barrel (I've always said that
                    plagiarism is the sincerest form of flattery) for their own non-traditional
                    student recruiting program

                    I could go on, and on, and on, but let me just say this: In addition to
                    having had "ethnic" clients here in the US, I've had clients in Dubai, the
                    PRC, Belarus, Colombia, India, Nigeria - an author who named me in his
                    book-dedication - London, South Africa, Canada, French Canada, Romania and a
                    fair number of other places - and to an American raised in the Deep South,
                    all of those places are also "ethnic" (hell, I wrote a brochure published in
                    both Russian and Belarussian - neither of which I read - and I produced an
                    ad campaign (print, TV) in Spanish that won national "Hispanic" media awards
                    for creativity and effectiveness, and as I've said, I don't read or speak
                    Spanish).

                    And I'm not alone - I can best speak from my own example, but I know many PR
                    professionals who've done exceptionally well with ethnic groups that they
                    are not part of. I've also seen PR people who consider themselves "ethnic"
                    who've done spectacularly in the mainstream market, or in working
                    cross-ethnicity.

                    Ana - I find the notion that only Hispanics can best promote Hispanics, or
                    only Blacks can best promote Blacks, as counter-productive to PR and to the
                    people who espouse it. They generally don't see that (as noted earlier),
                    it's Sauce for the Goose, Mr. Savik (i.e., that if you can ghetto-ize PR for
                    ethnic minorities, then by the same logic, only whites should be able to
                    promote "white" or mainstream companies . and that is both offensive and
                    patently untrue . it is also destructive in a way that only those who can
                    remember Jim Crow might really be able to understand). I don't believe
                    that's your intent, but your position is still segregationist, racist,
                    exclusive-ist and lots of other "ists" that America has worked hard for half
                    a century to put behind us.

                    I have no doubt that there are profoundly good ethnic PR agencies who've
                    done remarkable work in their own ethnic communities - I've hired some, and
                    partnered with others, and I've seen what they can do. But in every case -
                    EVERY CASE - they were effective NOT because they were ethnic (and therefore
                    better understood the ethnicity), but because they were superior PR
                    professionals at the top of their game. Sadly, some agencies play on their
                    ethnicity to land contracts, playing on racism (and reverse racism) and
                    other less noble sentiments to win contracts because of their race or
                    ethnicity, instead of because of their superior performance. But when the
                    playing field is level, the best PR person will always produce and deliver
                    the best PR campaign, regardless of his/her ethnicity (and regardless of the
                    client's ethnic orientation) .

                    Ned Barnett, APR

                    Marketing/PR Fellow, American Hospital Association

                    Barnett Marketing Communications

                    420 N. Nellis Blvd. A3-276

                    Las Vegas NV 89110

                    702-696-1200 - ned@barnettmarcom. com

                    http://www.barnettmarcom.com

                    From: prbytes@yahoogroups .com [mailto:prbytes@ yahoogroups .com] On Behalf
                    Of
                    ana lydia ochoa
                    Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 4:04 PM
                    To: prbytes@yahoogroups .com
                    Cc: PRMindshare@ yahoogroups. com
                    Subject: Re: Ethnic Groups (was: [prbytes] RE: [PRMindshare] XP - Swine Flu
                    - Probably not, but how to be prepared, just in case ...

                    Ned,

                    You missed my second email on the topic listing the missing ethnic groups
                    categorized for both marketing and PR purposes.

                    I have spoken and provided insight extensively on the subject of ethnic
                    outreach and have many years experience in dealing with Fortune 500
                    companies needed my expertise, just as you do. For that reason, I won't
                    comment or elaborate on (possible) short-comings of your below referenced
                    examples.

                    In terms of your personal feelings and background, we should probably leave
                    it out of a professional PR board. Otherwise, it could turn quite ugly and
                    offend many different folks (As various of your comments below could be
                    misinterpreted) .

                    One key thing to take-away by other list members is that ethnic PR is a must
                    and it's usually done best by professionals of the same ethnic background.
                    I.e.

                    RL Public Relations - former employer, owned by an Argentinean woman who
                    embraces her Mexican-American and South American Staff. This agency has won
                    over key Fortune 500 companies over Anglo-run general market firms claiming
                    to do Hispanic PR

                    VPE PR - Former employer and mentors, owned by two Chicano's, staff is of
                    various Hispanic nationalities and reaches out the Hispanic market.

                    LaGrant - owned by an African American which does African American and
                    Hispanic PR/Advertising

                    And of course padma, who has beat-out HUGE NYC agencies run by non-Latinos
                    claiming to know the culture and falling flat on their face when we could do
                    much more with much less (Sorry for the slight self promotion)

                    Happy Friday,
                    --
                    Ana Lydia Ochoa
                    padma media & marketing, Inc.
                    o.310.598.5735
                    c.310.403.5299

                    Twitter.com/ LatinaPRpro
                    LinkedIn.com/ AnaLydiaOchoa
                    Facebook.com/ pages/Los- Angeles-CA/ padma-media- marketing/ 8757051745

                    From my PR Blog:

                    Sunday, October 22, 2006

                    Diversity in Public Relations - Great Idea or "PC Hell"

                    Intro: Recently, we've commemorated the death and birth of Dr. Martin Luther
                    King, Jr. - a man who fought for integration and against what we now call
                    "diversity" (but what he might have called segregation) . Which is why, I
                    guess, this has come up now.

                    Recently, the topic of "diversity" came up on a PR list - the poster
                    "assumed" that we'd all agree that "diversity" is a good idea, but based on
                    35 years of color-blind experience in the PR field, I think that "diversity"
                    in public relations staffing is a terrible idea. PR is all about results,
                    and the color, ethnic origin, religion, gender or race of the PR
                    practitioner is absolutely irrelevant. Or so it seems to me. So I wrote to
                    the list the following (which, no surprise, created a fire-storm of
                    opposition from the terminally politically correct, and ultimately got me
                    booted off the list ... ). So put on your asbestos jockey shorts and enjoy a
                    controversy ...

                    ****

                    Basically, I think that "diversity" is a shibboleth - a false idol that
                    distracts us away from what's really important in PR (effective
                    communications) ; it also has the negative side effect of dividing people
                    when we ought to be pulling them together (it does this by "labeling" people
                    and making those labels more important than the people themselves). Let me
                    give a few examples of where I'm coming from, then get down to the PR issue.

                    I believe in the absolute equality of all people, and think that each person
                    should be judged (as Dr. King said) on the quality of their soul, not the
                    color of their skin (or their gender, or gender-preference, or any other
                    artificial category). I've tried to live my life that way, and I know I've
                    tried to conduct my business that way.

                    Before I get into what that means to PR, let me give you a bit of background
                    which will help to explain why I think "diversity" is a curse for PR, and
                    for all PR practitioners, black and white, male and female.

                    ******

                    When I was in college at the University of Georgia, I was active in the
                    local and state civil rights movement - this at a time when the police felt
                    it necessary to chase civil rights marchers with batons and leashed dogs.
                    One of my proudest moments was my role in helping to desegregate the
                    Methodist Church in Georgia - at that time, there were three "conferences" -
                    North Georgia (white), South Georgia (white) and Georgia (black). And, at
                    that time, the ministers North and South were guaranteed a living wage,
                    housing and insurance benefits, retirement and other bennies - all paid for
                    by the Conference (churches supplemented that base salary, so some ministers
                    made more than others, but all made a living wage, with benefits and
                    housing). However, the (black) Georgia Conference ministers had no such
                    guarantees; as a result, most black Methodist ministers had full-time
                    secular jobs (to support their families), giving their congregations short
                    shrift.

                    This was discrimination, pure and simple. It not only hurt the ministers, it
                    also hurt the black congregations, which needed full-time ministers just as
                    much as did the white congregations (besides the fact that it seemed
                    essentially at odds with the core message of Christianity, which all who
                    were involved professed to believe).

                    After lots and lots of behind-the-scenes negotiations, those of us pushing
                    for equality arranged for the North Georgia Conference to merge with the
                    Georgia Conference - black ministers throughout the state immediately got a
                    living wage, benefits and housing - and they got a paid-up retirement plan
                    retroactive to the day they were ordained. It was a huge triumph for real
                    equality, and I have been proud all my life that I was able to have a hand
                    in it.

                    That early effort taught me that equality - that we are all the same, and
                    should be treated as such - was far more important than diversity (which
                    focuses on our differences and tends to separate, rather than connect,
                    people). It was a focus on those differences that had led to discrimination
                    against black ministers - an evil, in my opinion, not a benefit.

                    Later, I became a strong advocate of the Equal Rights Amendment, pushing for
                    its passage in South Carolina. Some women (my then-wife included) opposed
                    this, because they felt that by being separate (i.e., "diverse") they got
                    privileges (i.e., exemption from the military draft and certain other
                    obligations that fell solely to men) that would be denied them in a world of
                    perfect equality. I disagreed, and even took a leave-of-absence from my job
                    to campaign for total equality for all citizens - and, though we didn't use
                    the term at that time, I was campaigning against diversity.

                    Several years ago, my oldest son got a position on the faculty of a
                    state-owned university in Tennessee. This particular university is what's
                    known as "a historically black institution, " meaning that it used to be
                    segregated (a Jim Crow school) and today most of its students and faculty
                    remain black. However, my son had excellent credentials in a field where
                    they needed excellent credentials, and in a competitive environment, he was
                    hired - one of only three white faculty members in his department.

                    In his first year, he had an average of one white student per class (average
                    class size, 70) - and sad-but-true, he caught a lot of hostile crap from
                    black students who were more interested, apparently, in having black
                    professors (which - from their perspective - seemed reasonable to them, as
                    they chose to attend a predominantly black state university and had little
                    desire to associate with people other than black people) than in learning
                    what they were there to study. However, because my son reflects my own views
                    on absolute equality of individuals, he's been able to set that hostility
                    aside and provide superior education (based on student comments to the Dean
                    and his own performance evaluations) .

                    If "diversity" had been the absolute policy, my son would have missed a
                    valuable job and valuable life experience, and his students would have
                    missed the opportunity to see equality in action - to see that they could
                    learn as much from a white man as from a black man or woman. In his way, my
                    son has been able to break down (at least a bit) racial hatred and prejudice
                    merely by showing up, ignoring hostility and providing equal and quality
                    education to all his students. "Diversity" would have made that impossible,
                    and would have (I am convinced) hurt the students by depriving them of a new
                    perspective that has (at least in a few cases) opened their eyes.

                    However, as a final aside, though my son was always the top-rated teaching
                    professor in his department, he was denied a "tenure-track" contract;
                    instead, he worked from semester to semester with no hope for advancement.
                    Though he enjoyed his job and liked being able to work in his home town,
                    with a family to support, he eventually left to work for a fully-integrated
                    university that was willing to put him on a career path.

                    More recently, from a libertarian (not "Libertarian" - I'm not a party man)
                    position of equality of opportunity, I've strongly supported the idea of Gay
                    Marriages (in my view, if Gay individuals want to be married, let them). I
                    support this because I don't believe that people are - at their core, down
                    where things really matter - different, at least not different in ways that
                    should matter when it comes to basic human rights. And because of that, I do
                    not think people should not be treated differently because of factors of
                    birth or lifestyle choice.

                    I've seen the evil of focusing on differences, even in PR - my former
                    business partner was gay, but he kept that a secret from everybody because
                    he felt that to be himself would cause him to be discriminated against by
                    potential clients ... he wanted to be treated just like everybody else, so
                    he kept his nature to himself. His "status" didn't come out until after we'd
                    closed the agency and he'd found employment with a company that he thought
                    wouldn't care (he was wrong - the job lasted three months).

                    In a world where all people were seen as equals, where race and gender and
                    orientation literally did not matter, this would not have impacted him. But
                    he bought into all that "diversity" crap, let the world know something that
                    was basically private information between him and his partner (and basically
                    none of the world's business), and wound up losing his job. So much, I feel,
                    for diversity.

                    ******

                    Now let's bring this diversity issue home to public relations.

                    One of the tenets of "diversity" is that "like" can only talk to (or
                    represent) "like" - Gays can only (or at least best) represent Gays, blacks
                    can only (or at least best) represent Blacks, etc. Individual skills,
                    ability, "heart" - none of that matters. To those who advocate "diversity,"
                    only the color of your skin, or your gender, or your orientation (or
                    whatever) matters.

                    That, to me, is the essence of discrimination, the very thing Dr. King
                    fought against so hard, for so long (and for which he ultimately gave his
                    life).

                    In my career, I have successfully represented Women's organizations (and
                    woman-owned companies), though I am not a woman. I have had client firms
                    that were owned by blacks (including an independent Hollywood film
                    production company owned by one of the former Drifters), yet I am not black.
                    I have represented a gay-themed restaurant, Hamburger Mary's, though I am
                    not gay. I've represented Christian clients, though I have not (at that
                    time) been an active Christian for many years. In each of these cases, I was
                    able to succeed on their behalf - not because I was "one of them," but
                    because I was, at that time, the best PR person they could find for their
                    particular needs. Rather than diversity, I was able to succeed (and feed my
                    family) because my clients were willing and able to set the issue of
                    "diversity" aside and, instead, go with the best person available for the
                    job at hand.

                    By the same token, when I was hiring, I have put women in jobs that
                    conventional wisdom said could only be filled by men - because the women I
                    hired or retained were simply the best-qualified for the job.

                    More than once, I've hired or retained black (or Hispanic, or Indian) men
                    and women to handle assignments for white (often bigoted white) clients - I
                    brought them in because they were the best, not because they were black, or
                    Hispanic, or Indian (which should, under a policy of "diversity," have
                    precluded them from the assignments) , but because they were the best.

                    Just within the last two weeks, I hired a gay man (my former business
                    partner) to develop the media portion of a communications plan for a client
                    firm (one owned by Catholics and run by some fairly homophobic gents)
                    because I knew that my ex-partner was the best person for the job. I didn't
                    tell the Catholics that their plan was being developed by a gay guy - it was
                    none of their business - but if I had been going with "diversity," I guess
                    I'd have had to hire a Catholic homophobe to do the work.

                    And this brings me down to the ultimate purpose of public relations.

                    We are here to generate results - measurable, meaningful, memorable results.
                    When we send an email pitch to a reporter, that reporter doesn't know and
                    really doesn't care what our race, gender, religion, orientation, etc. is -
                    s/he only cares if our story is newsworthy and our pitch is compelling.

                    "Diversity" doesn't enter into it.

                    Good PR people - regardless of race, gender and orientation - ought to be
                    able to communicate effectively to whites, blacks, Hispanics and other
                    races; to men and women, gay or straight or somewhere in between. The only
                    meaningful measure is, at least to me, who can do it most effectively.

                    The rest is politics, not PR. And while politics doesn't generate favorable
                    press coverage, solid PR does.

                    So, bottom line, I come down against diversity as it applies to PR - and,
                    because it is divisive, rather than inclusive (because it makes categories
                    more important than people, and discriminates for or against people based on
                    those categories), I come down against diversity (and in favor of absolute
                    equality of opportunity) in our society as well.

                    I know this isn't politically correct - but I also know that it is (for me,
                    and, I think, for everybody who wants to get ahead on his or her own merits,
                    who wants to be treated as an individual and valued for who they are as an
                    individual) the right way to go, the right thing to do.

                    Down off my soap-box, and back to you ...

                    ____________ _________ _________ __
                    From: Ned Barnett <ned@barnettmarcom. com <mailto:ned% 40barnettmarcom. com>
                    >
                    To: prbytes@yahoogroups .com <mailto:prbytes% 40yahoogroups. com>
                    Cc: PRMindshare@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:PRMindshare %40yahoogroups. com>
                    Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 8:14:59 PM
                    Subject: Ethnic Groups (was: [prbytes] RE: [PRMindshare] XP - Swine Flu -
                    Probably not, but how to be prepared, just in case ...

                    Ana - you have missed a major group or two (or three or four) of people who
                    consider themselves "ethnic" and expect to be treated (and marketed to) as
                    such, or who refuse to be pigeon-holed into your narrow categories of
                    ethnicity.

                    I think, as Americans, we spend entirely too much time catering to the
                    self-imposed sensitivities (and in some cases, hyper-sensitivities ) of
                    those
                    who consider being "ethnic" important (or perhaps overridingly important).
                    To me, having grown up in a bitterly-divided ethnic household (between my
                    parents and grandparents we had three ethnicities and four nationalities) ,
                    you're either an American or you're not (and if you're not, you're either
                    here legally or illegally). Anything else and you're just letting
                    "feelings" get in the way of facts, and - by embracing an over-arching
                    ethnicity - you're limiting your ability to function in America as an
                    American.

                    I say this, as I noted, having been raised in a household by a mother born
                    into an ethnic ghetto, whose parents were born into two very different
                    ethnic ghettos (my grandparents, except for the suicide thing, were a real
                    Romeo-and-Juliet couple, and the surviving inlaws still can't stand one
                    another, solely because of ethnic hatreds still too common between
                    Irish-Catholics and Italian Catholics in Rust-Belt Cleveland). If you've
                    never tried to grow up (and grow out of) Little Italy or Little Ireland in
                    the Midwestern Rust Belt, then it may be hard to picture those folks as
                    "ethnic" - but I guarantee you that the residents of Little Italy/Youngstown
                    or Little Ireland/Cleveland took that VERY SERIOUSLY during my childhood
                    (and much more intensely in my parents and grandparents growing-up lives).

                    However, all this "stuff about ethnicity and discrimination and segregation
                    and the "class" being more important than the "individual" is all different
                    when it comes to marketing. When you're selling to someone, it only makes
                    sense to cater to their self-imposed prejudices and self-images. However,
                    if we're going to get particular about ethnic groups for marketing purposes,
                    I would offer the following:

                    1. Having worked extensively with the Cuban, Puerto Rican and
                    Argentinian markets, none of them would want to be considered to be "Latino"
                    or "Hispanic" - both of which to them equate to Mexican/Central American,
                    while they see themselves as "Spanish-Speaking Europeans" (during the
                    Alvarez social altercations [aka "riots"] in the mid-80s, I was told by
                    Cuban business partners, who were not kidding, that the quickest way for me
                    as an Anglo to get knifed was to refer to a Cuban as a Mexican, or a Latino,
                    or a Hispanic). I spent a lot of time marketing to that marketplace (and
                    continue to do so), and have not found any increased willingness to be
                    considered "Latino" or "Hispanic" among Cuban-Americans.

                    2. This distinction was reinforced to me by a New York City Puerto
                    Rican who served in the Reagan administration (as Deputy Drug Czar) who also
                    refused to be considered a "Latino" or "Hispanic" - but not because he was a
                    "Spanish-Speaking European" but for the reason that he was fully
                    "Americanized" and wanted to be treated the same as other Americans (for
                    instance, when interviewed on Telemundo, he refused to speak in Spanish - a
                    surprise to me, as I had to scramble to find a translator for the interview
                    I set up for him).

                    3. Orthodox Jews (some would say all Jews) are certainly an ethnic
                    group all unto themselves; in Miami, they are marketed to as a separate
                    ethnic group, quite effectively. For instance, I marketed an "Orthodox"
                    hospital in North Miami Beach, even hiring an Orthodox Rabbi on my marketing
                    department team, and took a dying-on-the- vine hospital [occupancy 59 out of
                    350 beds the day I took over marketing] and filled up "Kosher" units and
                    filled the hospital on the Sabbath because all staff were trained and
                    required to respect, honor and respond to Orthodox rules for the Sabbath.

                    4. If you've ever been to the Detroit area, especially Dearborn, you
                    know that Arabic Muslims consider themselves an ethnic minority, and if you
                    have ever dealt with CAIR, you know the risk you run when you do NOT treat
                    them as an ethnic minority (having marketed an Egyptian-born
                    invitro-fertilizati on specialist in both Dearborn and Flint, I know this
                    from very first-hand experience)

                    5. When it comes to Asians, you cannot lump Chinese, Koreans and
                    Japanese with Indians, Bangladeshi and Pakistani markets - they may all be
                    from "Asia" but it's the biggest continent and reflect vastly different
                    cultures (if you don't believe me, go to Chinatown and ask for curry, or go
                    to India-town and ask for mu-shu pork)

                    6. I also think that President Obama - the son of an African
                    immigrant, instead of the descendent of slaves - makes it clear that there
                    is no ethnicity distinction worth mentioning between African-Americans and
                    African Immigrants). Colin Powell and my own future daughter-in- law make it
                    clear that Jamaican-descent is, once you're born into America, is irrelevant
                    - you're still "African-American. " Finally, as both Obama and my future
                    daughter-in- law show, someone who is half-African American and half white
                    American can freely choose their ethnicity, regardless of their genetic
                    heritage (which further calls into question the whole ethnicity thing in my
                    opinion). One - raised in a white household, has chosen to be "black,"
                    while the other - raised in a black household - has chosen to be "white."
                    Both are Americans.

                    I could go on. Ask the Kurdish-American or the Armenian-Americans if they
                    are "ethnic" . then step back, especially if you want to lump them with
                    "white" (though they're a lot closer to real "Caucasians" than are most
                    American whites).

                    My point (and I do have one)? While ethnic subdivisions are often useful
                    for marketing purposes, they get in the way of integrating people into the
                    American culture. In addition, those who are over-sensitive (to
                    hyper-sensitive) about their ethnicity not only create problems for
                    themselves and others, but unless they understand the differences between
                    Samoans and Tongans (and can respect those differences) , and who
                    acknowledge
                    all the other ethnicities that are important to self-defined ethnic
                    minorities in America are asking for trouble.

                    And if the term "Mexican Flu" hare-lips someone who has no problem referring
                    to "Hong Kong Flu," "Spanish Flu" or "Asian Flu," they might want to look at
                    their own prejudices and sensitivities. As Spock said to Savik, "Sauce for
                    the Goose, Mr. Savik." Unless, of course, they're marketing flu-shots to
                    self-defined Latinos or Hispanics, in which case cultural sensitivity is
                    important and appropriate.

                    Or so it seems to me.

                    Ned

                    Ned Barnett, APR

                    Marketing/PR Fellow, American Hospital Association

                    Barnett Marketing Communications

                    420 N. Nellis Blvd. A3-276

                    Las Vegas NV 89110

                    702-696-1200 - ned@barnettmarcom. com

                    http://www.barnettmarcom.com

                    From: prbytes@yahoogroups .com [mailto:prbytes@ yahoogroups .com] On Behalf
                    Of
                    ana lydia ochoa
                    Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 4:31 PM
                    To: prbytes@yahoogroups .com
                    Subject: Re: [prbytes] RE: [PRMindshare] XP - Swine Flu - Probably not, but
                    how to be prepared, just in case ...

                    For Marketing/PR/ Advertising purposes, ethnic groups are categorized as
                    follows:

                    Latino/Hispanic (also broken down by Spanish speaking, bilingual, new
                    immigrants, Portuguese speaking)
                    Asian (can also be broken down further by South Asian, Pacific Islanders,
                    etc.)
                    African American (not to be confused with African immigrants or black
                    Latinos)

                    The general market, or non-ethnic are categorized as:

                    White/Anglo- Saxon
                    Immigrated to US 3+ generations past (at this point, most immigrants,
                    whether Hispanic or from European countries are marketed all of the same)

                    Research has shown that by being aware of the cultural nuances of the
                    various ethnic groups we can prevent "foot in mouth" syndrome. :)

                    --
                    Ana Lydia Ochoa
                    padma media & marketing, Inc.
                    o.310.598.5735
                    c.310.403.5299

                    Twitter.com/ LatinaPRpro
                    LinkedIn.com/ AnaLydiaOchoa
                    Facebook.com/ pages/Los- Angeles-CA/ padma-media- marketing/ 8757051745

                    ____________ _________ _________ __
                    From: Rich <rarostron@yahoo. com <mailto:rarostron% 40yahoo.com> >
                    To: prbytes@yahoogroups .com <mailto:prbytes% 40yahoogroups. com>
                    Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 12:45:10 PM
                    Subject: Re: [prbytes] RE: [PRMindshare] XP - Swine Flu - Probably not, but
                    how to be prepared, just in case ...

                    Just out of curiosity, what is a non ethnic group? Don't we all have our own
                    particular ethnicity? I think Ned's point is that, were a similar disease to
                    take root in the U.S., it might be named the US or American flu. If it
                    started in New York, we'd call it the New York flu, or, if it started in
                    Chicago, the Chicago flu (I use the example of Chicago because I'm from the
                    Chicago area and wouldn't want anyone from New York to think that I'm
                    dissing them) as opposed to the Hong Kong flu. If something like this starts
                    in Chicago, I'll be far more concerned about not catching the disease, or
                    recovering if I do, than in worrying about what they call it. I think we
                    have a choice to stretch our minds to see racial/ethnic prejudice, if that's
                    what we're inclined to see. Some members of the general public are also so
                    inclined. Maybe we should try to set examples that help them out of the
                    woods.

                    ____________ _________ _________ __
                    From: ana lydia ochoa <analydiaochoa@ yahoo.com>
                    To: prbytes@yahoogroups .com
                    Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 2:12:44 PM
                    Subject: Re: [prbytes] RE: [PRMindshare] XP - Swine Flu - Probably not, but
                    how to be prepared, just in case ...

                    Ned,

                    You bring up an issue that comes up time and time again - Hispanic, Asian
                    (or any other ethnic group) will find racism in comments or names of
                    problems (i.e. Mexican Flu).

                    Non-ethnic people will not.

                    I won't try to change your mind (or those that don't find it offensive).
                    Just know, that for a large group of ethnic (Mexican at that) folks, others
                    calling this pandemic flu "Mexican Flu" has allowed many (non ethnic folk)
                    to use that against immigrants, etc.

                    Case in point - just follow the Twitter comments on the subject.

                    However, this is not PR and the topic is probably left alone at this point.

                    --
                    Ana Lydia Ochoa
                    padma media & marketing, Inc.
                    o.310.598.5735
                    c.310.403.5299

                    Twitter.com/ LatinaPRpro
                    LinkedIn.com/ AnaLydiaOchoa
                    Facebook.com/ pages/Los- Angeles-CA/ padma-media- marketing/ 8757051745

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                    No virus found in this incoming message.
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                    17:51:00



                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • kezia_jauron
                    2nd try... The primary scaremongers were Hannity and Glenn Beck, who were calling for closing the border to protect us from swine flu. (There were others
                    Message 9 of 22 , May 5, 2009
                    • 0 Attachment
                      2nd try...

                      The primary scaremongers were Hannity and Glenn Beck, who were calling for closing the border to protect us from swine flu. (There were others saying the same although to my knowledge they are not on FN's payroll.)

                      --- In prbytes@yahoogroups.com, Aboriginals%3A%20Art%20of%20the%20First%20Person <sanibelart@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Hey, Kezia"
                      >
                      > Just for the sake accuracy, full disclosure and what passes for reporting these days, which "talking heads" on which Fox News shows on April 29?
                      >
                      > Bill Waites
                      > ----- Original Message -----
                      > From: "kezia_jauron" <kezia@...>
                      > To: prbytes@yahoogroups.com
                      > Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 12:13:46 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
                      > Subject: [prbytes] Re: [PRMindshare] XP - Swine Flu - Probably not, but how to be prepared, just in case ...
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > I agree about the nomenclature. It would be proper to call it "Factory Farm Flu."
                      >
                      > And Fox news talking heads yesterday blamned "illegal immigrants" for spreading the virus.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                    • Aboriginals%3A%20Art%20of%20the%20First%2
                      Bit of a reach, Kezia. Calling for closing the border to control the spread of a flu that was established to have originated in the country on the other side
                      Message 10 of 22 , May 5, 2009
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Bit of a reach, Kezia.

                        Calling for closing the border to control the spread of a flu that was established to have originated in the country on the other side of the border, is hardly equivalent to " blamned (sic) "illegal immigrants" for spreading the virus. "

                        Nice try, though.
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: "kezia_jauron" <kezia@...>
                        To: prbytes@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2009 1:33:09 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
                        Subject: [prbytes] Re: [PRMindshare] XP - Swine Flu - Probably not, but how to be prepared, just in case ...








                        2nd try...

                        The primary scaremongers were Hannity and Glenn Beck, who were calling for closing the border to protect us from swine flu. (There were others saying the same although to my knowledge they are not on FN's payroll.)

                        --- In prbytes@yahoogroups.com , Aboriginals%3A%20Art%20of%20the%20First%20Person <sanibelart@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Hey, Kezia"
                        >
                        > Just for the sake accuracy, full disclosure and what passes for reporting these days, which "talking heads" on which Fox News shows on April 29?
                        >
                        > Bill Waites
                        > ----- Original Message -----
                        > From: "kezia_jauron" <kezia@...>
                        > To: prbytes@yahoogroups.com
                        > Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 12:13:46 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
                        > Subject: [prbytes] Re: [PRMindshare] XP - Swine Flu - Probably not, but how to be prepared, just in case ...
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > I agree about the nomenclature. It would be proper to call it "Factory Farm Flu."
                        >
                        > And Fox news talking heads yesterday blamned "illegal immigrants" for spreading the virus.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >




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