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Re: [prbytes] Do clients really go for this?

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  • ana lydia ochoa
    Ned, No, I don t know the agency nor did I ask for an evaluation of their site. I can t recall who started the thread. I did, however, come to their defense
    Message 1 of 19 , Nov 14, 2008
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      Ned,

      No, I don't know the agency nor did I ask for an evaluation of their site. I can't recall who started the thread. I did, however, come to their defense because I know of similar agencies.

      I haven't seen their work. If I did, I would probably see some good stuff (But I am a glass-half-full kinda gal ;) I have also seen horrible (IMHO) work from more senior strategists. It really doesn't matter. If the client loves them and their work - who are we to say that their website isn't good enough? (Going off the assumption that they still exist)

      Now, if a website isn't updated, I am assuming that it's because they are too busy working to update their website. I worked for several agencies that didn't update their website in months, sometimes a full year - exactly because of this. Not a single client or prospective client questioned this - they kept getting work and both of them are now the number 1 and 2 Hispanic agencies in the country (both bill well beyond $5 MM)

      In terms of PG rated event - that was a kudos to you for your work. You did exactly what that 'type' of client needed for that event/launch. In terms of using an example for a spirits or fashion company, it was merely to showcase the difference between the type of clients and their desired strategy and outcome.

      It's good to hear various account strategies - which could be completely off base for what we personally work on every day. At least for me, it helps me get out of my fashion and entertainment bubble.

      --
      Ana Lydia Ochoa
      padma media & marketing
      o.310.598.5735
      f.310.598.5734
      c.310.403.5299


      We are proud to announce that the Inc.com editorial team has advanced padma media & marketing to the next round of the 2007 Entrepreneur of the Year search! We welcome your comments on our official Inc.com site:


      http://www.inc.com/entrepreneur/2007/profile/index.php?ochoa205




      ________________________________
      From: Ned Barnett <ned@...>
      To: prbytes@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 4:10:51 PM
      Subject: RE: [prbytes] Do clients really go for this?


      Ana

      I'm trying to figure out why you sound so defensive - this is a third-party
      agency, not yours - nobody (least of all me) is criticizing you. You asked
      for our opinions and we're giving them. Yes, there are agencies for
      everyone - but do you really want to market to semi-literate clients who are
      easily deceived? That agency's website has several major problems - from
      grammar and punctuation to lists of client without links (which raises
      serious 'is this for real' questions) to their hazy definition of "pay for
      performance. " They may be a good agency, but they have a C- website at
      best.

      Again, you asked for our opinions about an agency that's not yours - and
      several of us have given you honest opinions, which seem to drive you toward
      defensiveness and some frankly "catty" comments, such as your put-down of my
      examples as being "G-rated PC fun" that have no relevance to "hip, adult"
      promotions and are somehow not as good or worthy because of that. Frankly,
      Ana, you pissed me off a bit, and for no reason that I can think of. Again,
      why so defensive?

      As far as my examples being G-rated PC fun, yes they are. It has been my
      policy for about 20 years to refuse as a matter of course to have anything
      to do with anything that's exploitative - I don't do liquor, I don't do
      "adult" books or movies or stage shows - I don't do anything that exploits
      women or kids . I learned a long time ago (even before I moved to Vegas, the
      crown-jewel of exploitation) that if I couldn't proudly tell my kids about
      it, I didn't want to do it. I get asked a lot to work with those kinds of
      accounts, but there are ways of making money that don't make me feel like I
      need to take a long hot shower after working on them, so I pass them by.
      This is by no means a judgment on anybody who does work on those accounts -
      my decisions were personal and had more to do with having married someone
      who'd been victimized (no details needed) - so I could see the impact of
      certain products and services in the life of someone dear to me, and I
      decided that I didn't want to go there. But that's my personal choice, not
      a universal condemnation - I respect those who promote "adult" products with
      creativity and flair; I just personally don't want to emulate them.

      So the examples I give are, by necessity, G-rated PC fun . but they're no
      less valid for that. You'd be wise to not "brush off" examples that are
      G-rated PC fun (or however you'd like to brush them off) - as creativity is
      infinitely adaptable - what I did, for instance, in opening a new zoo
      exhibit in South Carolina has a direct relevance to opening a night club in
      South Beach - if you know where to look and how to extrapolate. Just a
      suggestion - ideas are fungible, and it's the really sharp PR pro who knows
      where to borrow and how to adapt ideas for their own uses.

      But a final comment about that "G-rated PC fun" comment, which clearly
      struck a nerve in me. Before I grew a conscience, I did a lot of edgy
      promotion for clients I now wouldn't touch with a ten-meter cattle prod; I
      could have given those, but I'm no longer proud of liquor campaigns and
      other "I wouldn't touch those" campaigns I've done, so I leave those in the
      back shelf and don't talk about them. Doesn't mean I can't play in the 'big
      leagues,' which you seem to imply - it's just that I'd rather launch
      Dot.Safe (an internet portal that protects kids) by bussing in 250 Harlem
      grade-school kids to try it out on the front steps of the NYC Public Library
      (then donate the computers to their schools) than I would be in promoting a
      new drink designed to appeal to women - if only because I know that the
      drinks will get misused by predatory men who want to get their dates drunk
      enough that they don't notice the ruffies in their drinks. Used to be (in
      the pre-ruffie days) that Amaretto and Bailey's Irish Cream was the drink of
      choice (in part because of a successful campaign I put together years ago) -
      now it's some fast-acting flavored martini - but it's still the same old
      story. Sweet drinks get women drunk enough to take advantage of, and as
      long as there are predatory men and stupid women, no PR campaign (no matter
      how arm's length or upstanding it is) for those drinks will have any other
      outcome.

      Off the soapbox and back to the issues at hand.

      The things you mentioned below are fascinating examples of thinking outside
      of the box, Ana - which is to your credit. However, this is also something
      I think every PR person needs to do as part of his or her job description -
      we're all supposed to be innovative, and if you study the history of PR
      you'll see seminal examples of everything you've so creatively accomplished.
      That's not a put-down of you - more, a recognition that there's nothing new
      under the sun.

      Example - you mentioned staging an event on the roof of a night club that's
      booked up a year in advance. That's excellent creative thinking. But it's
      no different than the first live Internet concert - it was in conjunction
      with Comdex (so it was back in the day) and featured the Who. However,
      Caesar's Palace - where we wanted to stage it for a variety of reasons no
      longer important - had all its live-show auditoriums booked up. So we
      staged the first live Internet concert in the front
      greensward-and- parking-lot at Caesar's, which was even better in a way,
      since all the drive-by traffic on the Strip could see it, too. I'm rather
      proud of having promoted that concert - and of having the brainstorm to
      stage it out front - but I also know that PR people like us had been doing
      really innovative kinds of things like that since long before we were born.

      One of the best PR stunts I'm aware of (it was hugely successful in monetary
      terms, in press coverage terms and in other less tangible terms). It was
      1917, in London - the "war to end all wars" was dragging on, and the home
      front was exhausted (the troops in the trenches had it even worse), and the
      British government was having a bad case of the shorts (this was before the
      US declared war and started funding Britain and the allies - and just as an
      aside, Britain has JUST paid off their WW-I debt to us, and France never
      did). They needed money, a lot of it, and fast.

      So they staged a war-bond drive in London - I think it was at Piccadilly
      Circus - and as the "star attraction," they brought in an army tank. Now
      this may sound mundane now, but the first tanks in combat had fought just a
      few months before, electrifying the population and exciting a huge
      interesting this "wonder weapon" that nobody had seen. Even though there
      were real security concerns, the Brits' PR folks prevailed, and the tank was
      on display (and even went through its paces) during the fund-drive, and that
      drive brought in several times as much money as the government's most
      optimistic bean-counters had predicted. In some ways, this one PR stunt
      kept Britain in the war long enough for America to join in and save Europe
      from the Kaiser's Huns. What I did was pale in comparison to what they did
      - but for both of us (what they did, what I did) was the "first ever" and
      was successful because of that.

      My point (and I do have one)? The idea to put a party on the roof was
      great. The idea to have a shoe designed by some Aztec graffiti artist then
      have a big "coming out" party was great. But it was no different than back
      when Braniff had the hottest Pop Art artists of the day design artistic
      paint schemes for all of Braniff's jets. That was in the 60s or early 70s,
      and it was HUGE and it had a major impact on Braniff's bottom line at a time
      when airline companies were hugely competitive, and some were going under.
      It kept Braniff afloat. So your idea was ABSOLUTELY GREAT - probably the
      very best that anybody could have done - but it wasn't an unprecedented
      idea. It was a creative out-of-the-box event that was just-right for that
      client . but that's what we're all supposed to do. It's exciting, it's
      important, it's exceptionally successful - but it's not something that
      hasn't been done before.

      Here's another example (one of my own - I had nothing to do with Braniff or
      the UK's war bond drive in WW-I, but this one I staged). A few years ago -
      a few being defined as 12 (when you get my creaking age, years feel like
      months <g>), the local Natural History Museum was also in a world of hurt
      financially - big surprise (museums and zoos and professional sports teams
      almost always do poorly in Vegas because of the entertainment competition) .
      So we got this famous popular artist, Wyland - who was in town for a gallery
      exhibition - to paint a mural on the side of the NHM's wall, and premiered
      this by having a high-end fund-raiser at the Natural History Museum itself -
      it was a huge success (kept the Museum open) - and also successful for
      Wyland, who's now got his own studio/gallery here in Vegas (and maybe
      elsewhere, but it started here with the mural). That's really no different
      than your Nike idea - both of them were great and both of them worked - but
      both of them were created by sharp PR folks (you and me) who know that PR
      people are SUPPOSED to think out of the box.

      Bottom line - you offered some very interesting examples of what we're all
      supposed to be doing (and of what most of the PR folks I hang with do
      automatically, as a matter of routine). Of course, I don't tend to hang
      with people who can't think outside the box - not partners, friends or
      clients - but in 36 years, I've found that most PR folks are, by nature,
      people who don't want to be boxed in.

      It's the job description - it's what we're supposed to do. You do it well,
      but you do it standing on the shoulders of the PR guy who saved Great
      Britain in 1917 by coming up with a successful, out-of-the-box PR stunt (or
      my own, with the live Internet "The Who" concert).

      Ana, you seem to be very professional, very competent, and very comfortable
      thinking outside the box - that is commendable, but there are others here
      who do the same thing. You're not alone in being able to do that, and - in
      a crowd of skilled and experienced PR people, you're not special in that
      ability (nor am I - except maybe I know I'm standing on the shoulders of
      giants in our field). So please, lighten up, quit being defensive, and stop
      acting like you've got to prove something by putting down others. Others
      don't like to be put down.

      All the best

      Ned

      Ned Barnett, APR

      Marketing/PR Fellow, American Hospital Association

      Barnett Marketing Communications

      420 N. Nellis Blvd. A3-276

      Las Vegas NV 89110

      702-696-1200 - ned@barnettmarcom. com

      http://www.barnettm arcom.com

      From: prbytes@yahoogroups .com [mailto:prbytes@yahoogroups .com] On Behalf Of
      ana lydia ochoa
      Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 10:31 AM
      To: prbytes@yahoogroups .com
      Subject: Re: [prbytes] Do clients really go for this?

      Ned et all,

      Yes - all your examples are G-rated PC fun - but when you are working with
      trailblazing and trend-setting clients, none of those examples will do.

      As an example, when working for Nike, we launched the first Latino-themed
      sneaker named after an Aztec warrior, which was designed by -guess what- a
      Latino graffiti artist. We hosted a party at one of the hottest locations in
      town, top DJ's, VIP Latinos and other trend-setters, etc., etc. The event
      -que no se diga- it wasn't a cookie-making deal ;) No pun intended - it was
      a night in Aztec Land - no one in suits that night. Not a soul.

      Every media outlet in the land - both national, international - covered the
      event. And, the covetted sneaker sold out everywhere and landed Nike amazing
      impressions, etc., etc.

      A few other examples include spirits brands, (Don Julio), Heineken (I worked
      with the agency that lead the Latino launch), and I could go on.

      The basic thing I am trying to state here is this - there are agencies for
      everyone and for every client. And besides a strong background and strategy
      experience, brands that are trying to reach a younger and more afluent crowd
      have to be creative and do things outside of the box. And, honestly, CMO's
      hire those that represent the brand well - that being said, an investment
      firm wouldn't care to look at my credentials - however impressive they are.
      But a fashion, entertainment, beauty company loves us and our work. We
      'represent' those brands.

      Case in point, we were organizing an international brand hired my previous
      agency (where I worked) to create a launch event for a 'product.' The lead
      on the account couldn't even list the top restaurants or clubs in LA and he
      couldn't get anyone to call him back. I got on the phone, called a couple of
      people and BAM we had a rooftop event at a location that was booked a year
      in advance. Again, no suits - well, swimsuits a' plenty.

      Going back to the agency in question - so they aren't perfect. But neither
      are we. There's an agency out there for every client

      --
      Ana Lydia Ochoa
      padma media & marketing
      o.310.598.5735
      f.310.598.5734
      c.310.403.5299

      We are proud to announce that the Inc.com editorial team has advanced padma
      media & marketing to the next round of the 2007 Entrepreneur of the Year
      search! We welcome your comments on our official Inc.com site:

      http://www.inc com/entrepreneur /2007/profile/ index.php? ochoa205

      ____________ _________ _________ __
      From: Ned Barnett <ned@barnettmarcom. com <mailto:ned% 40barnettmarcom. com> >
      To: prbytes@yahoogroups .com <mailto:prbytes% 40yahoogroups. com>
      Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 1:07:51 PM
      Subject: RE: [prbytes] Do clients really go for this?

      Ana

      That may be as you said. However, having had the CMO position half a dozen
      times (when the foolish desire for "apparent" security - and the need for a
      regularized income - overcame my better judgment) and in each of those, I
      targeted the younger, hipper crowd (assuming you consider South Beach the
      home to one of those cool, hip, young targets). And as a CMO, I have hired
      agencies on at least six different occasions. It was on that basis that I
      dissed this agency for their poor presentation.

      As for fun, I once staged a ground-breaking with a bbq buffet (6,600 meals
      were served in a town with a population of 5,800) and the ground was broken
      with a guy (my boss) driving a bull-dozer (while in a thousand-dollar
      business suit) and my son and my agency president's pre-teen daughters
      served cokes. There were balloons and games and all kinds of stuff to do
      (like a community carnival) and all had a great time. Another time, I used
      a real shotgun to start a "shotgun" golf tournament (and dressed up the
      Association' s Chairman with steel-pot combat helmet, bandoleer of shotgun
      shells and my short-barreled home-defense pump gun for a publicity photo -
      this guy got such a big kick out of this that when he needed a CMO about 30
      months later, I was the only candidate - he was the same guy I put on the
      dozer).

      I could go further - the rattlesnake hunt in the trees around my apartment
      (this after I came out of the building to find what looked to be a 42-foot
      rattler - it was probably no more than 9 feet, but - whew) - I wanted them
      gone (this was a college campus, we didn't need rattlers killing students .
      though of course, faculty was fair game), so I decided to make a PR event
      out of it by staging a rattler-hunt. Great PR .

      However, there's fun and then there's fun. I consulted with one hospital
      and met the PR director in the cafeteria - she was dressed up like a clown
      (face makeup, etc.) with baggy pants owned by the hospital's rotund chief
      engineer. Not surprisingly, she was seen by the hospital as a joke, and
      taken about as seriously as a teacup poodle guard dog.

      Anyway, I'm no stranger to "fun." But I didn't find this group echoing
      anything other than arrogant incompetence.

      AND, I doubt that the companies listed were actually clients - note again
      how few of those names link to anything.

      Ned Barnett, APR

      Marketing/PR Fellow, American Hospital Association

      Barnett Marketing Communications

      420 N. Nellis Blvd. A3-276

      Las Vegas NV 89110

      702-696-1200 - ned@barnettmarcom. com

      http://www.barnettm arcom.com

      From: prbytes@yahoogroups .com [mailto:prbytes@ yahoogroups .com] On Behalf
      Of
      ana lydia ochoa
      Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 11:42 AM
      To: prbytes@yahoogroups .com
      Subject: Re: [prbytes] Do clients really go for this?

      Ned,

      From what I read on their site, their goal is to attract mid to senior level
      CMOs interested in reaching a younger, hipper crowd - the proof is in their
      client roster.

      This agency probably partners with experiential marketing agencies and
      creates events with an added layer of PR. I doubt they are engaged in
      strategic planning.

      Not to say that there is no room for a more seasoned strategist - but what
      they do supplements and adds a "fun" layer to the more serious aspect of PR.

      --
      Ana Lydia Ochoa
      padma media & marketing
      o.310.598.5735
      f.310.598.5734
      c.310.403.5299

      We are proud to announce that the Inc.com editorial team has advanced padma
      media & marketing to the next round of the 2007 Entrepreneur of the Year
      search! We welcome your comments on our official Inc.com site:

      http://www.inc com/entrepreneur /2007/profile/ index.php? ochoa205

      ____________ _________ _________ __
      From: Ned Barnett <ned@barnettmarcom. com <mailto:ned% 40barnettmarcom. com>
      >
      To: prbytes@yahoogroups .com <mailto:prbytes% 40yahoogroups. com>
      Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 3:53:05 PM
      Subject: RE: [prbytes] Do clients really go for this?

      How about their egotistical, overblown and unethical philosophy? How about
      the BS they ladle out via their website? How about their intentional
      grammatical and puctuatory errors ("punctuatory" - a made-up word, but
      perhaps one that the English Language needs?).

      To borrow a line from a once-popular TV program, "I pity the poor fool" .
      who signs up these fast-and-loose con artists. I hope they enjoy having
      interns and just-out-of- college Jr. AEs creating and executing their
      strategy. I hope they like the rope-a-dope bait-and-switch "pay for
      performance" promise, which (while unethical under PRSA rules) isn't even an
      honest "pay for performance" - because their "performance" is the act they
      put on in front of their clients, not the clips they generate (most pay4play
      agencies, while unethical to the core, are still ethical enough to charge
      for clip results, not for the entertainment they provide at client
      meetings).

      These guys are a piece of work. Ana, I don't believe they have a YOUNG
      philosophy - their philosophy is the art of the Con - and the art of the Con
      is as old as the Hebrews' invasion of Canaan, and potentially just as
      painful (though in monetary terms, rather than what the Canaanites lost).

      Ned Barnett, APR

      Marketing/PR Fellow, American Hospital Association

      Barnett Marketing Communications

      420 N. Nellis Blvd. A3-276

      Las Vegas NV 89110

      702-696-1200 - ned@barnettmarcom. com

      http://www.barnettm arcom.com

      From: prbytes@yahoogroups .com [mailto:prbytes@ yahoogroups .com] On Behalf
      Of
      ana lydia ochoa
      Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 1:51 PM
      To: prbytes@yahoogroups .com
      Subject: Re: [prbytes] Do clients really go for this?

      What made your clients roll? Their upbeat, creative and YOUNG philosophy?

      They are obviously hired because of their non-traditional approach.

      --
      Ana Lydia Ochoa
      padma media & marketing
      o.310.598.5735
      f.310.598.5734
      c.310.403.5299

      We are proud to announce that the Inc.com editorial team has advanced padma
      media & marketing to the next round of the 2007 Entrepreneur of the Year
      search! We welcome your comments on our official Inc.com site:

      http://www.inc com/entrepreneur /2007/profile/ index.php? ochoa205

      ____________ _________ _________ __
      From: "Kirkpatrick, Lois M." <Lois.Kirkpatrick@ fairfaxcounty. gov
      <mailto:Lois. Kirkpatrick% 40fairfaxcounty. gov> >
      To: prbytes@yahoogroups .com <mailto:prbytes% 40yahoogroups. com>
      Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 11:55:48 AM
      Subject: [prbytes] Do clients really go for this?

      These people have an impressive client list and are obviously way
      successful. But my eyes started to roll about 200 words in. How about
      you?

      http://www.crayonvi lle.com/press/

      (Disclaimer: I found them through clicking on a series of links. Never
      heard of them before, have nothing personal against them. My apologies
      in advance if you wrote this or are friends/family of the principals.)

      Lois Kirkpatrick, Manager
      Marketing & Strategic Analysis
      Office for Children
      Fairfax County Dept. of Family Services

      703-324-7162
      www.fairfaxcounty. gov/ofc

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Ned Barnett
      Ana I m not looking to pick a fight online (or anywhere else), but based on my own experience (and the experience of a number of colleagues and competitors), I
      Message 2 of 19 , Nov 14, 2008
      • 0 Attachment
        Ana


        I'm not looking to pick a fight online (or anywhere else), but based on my
        own experience (and the experience of a number of colleagues and
        competitors), I have to strenuously disagree with your central thesis, that
        PR agencies must specialize because, obviously, a generalist can't do good
        work, nor can any agency do good work outside of its specialty.



        I have yet to see that play out in terms of performance. There are many
        agencies (I used to own one, and I've been partner in several others) that
        choose to specialize - but for most of these, this is done as a
        branding/positioning/marketing move, and not an admission that they can't do
        good work outside of their narrow market niche. In fact, in two cases
        where I was owner or partner of a "focused" PR agency, we also maintained a
        dba with a separate brand that allowed us to accept outside-our-niche
        clients without tarnishing the exclusivity brand.



        In all of this, I've never seen one good reason to focus (except to give you
        a marketing advantage) - I have yet to encounter a PR client that any
        experienced PR pro couldn't handle; and if you can deliver at the high end
        of performance for one type of client, you can do the same with another kind
        of client. At the core, PR is PR - anybody who can do professional-level PR
        for any client should be able to provide professional-level PR for a wide
        range of different kinds of clients. The basic core strategies and tactics
        that work for one work for all - the only things that change are the colors
        on the aluminum siding.



        I'll offer myself as an example, but I can offer three other agencies off
        the top of my head that are doing exceptional work on an even greater
        variety of clients. Looking at the projects I'm currently working on (For
        example):



        . Three television programs slated for cable

        . An incredibly sophisticated high-end software developer who deals
        in records technology and Federal compliance issues

        . Three theatrical films

        . An SaaS firm offering per-transaction sales tax calculating
        services to online retailers and others who need real-time tax information

        . A special one-time event involving bringing a former rock star
        back from obscurity and returning him to the pinnacle of rock-and-roll fame

        . Two private companies which need PPMs to raise funds

        . A couple of books/authors

        . One public company gearing up for a push to raise $5 million in
        new investments to fund expansion of their business of providing services to
        entrepreneurs

        . An annual Inventors' Expo

        . A South Beach New Years Eve blow-out (one of those "Party with the
        Celebrities" deals)

        . A start-up walk-in medical lab chain

        . A sophisticated (and niche-focused) business consultant, author
        and speaker

        . A start-up non-profit foundation

        . A start-up entertainment company

        . Six non-competing providers of workers comp insurance, focusing on
        the construction and agricultural trades

        . A business insurance company

        . A construction-industry trade magazine (I'm the editor of Nevada's
        Construction Zone - it's published by one of my clients)



        I seem to provide what my clients consider to be exceptional PR services -
        that's why they tend to stay with me and refer others to me. While there
        are few apparent similarities between promoting films/TV shows and seeking
        capital funding for start-up projects, I have yet to find any barriers to
        performing PR at the highest level for any of these clients.



        So, with all due respect, I just can't accept that notion that PR agencies
        need to be ghetto-ized (with us PR pros picking our favorite market "ghetto"
        and refusing to venture beyond the bounds of that ghetto) - and I can't
        accept that the market has become so Balkanized that they'll only work with
        ghetto-ized PR agencies. The marketplace doesn't work that way - if it did,
        I (and the like-minded allies and competitors I know personally) would be
        unable to have such a diverse group of clients.



        All the best

        Ned



        Ned Barnett, APR

        Marketing/PR Fellow, American Hospital Association



        Barnett Marketing Communications

        420 N. Nellis Blvd. A3-276

        Las Vegas NV 89110



        702-696-1200 - ned@...

        http://www.barnettmarcom.com



        From: prbytes@yahoogroups.com [mailto:prbytes@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
        ana lydia ochoa
        Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 10:42 AM
        To: prbytes@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [prbytes] Re: Do clients really go for this?



        Kezia,

        You hit it right on the nail with your comment "What sells booze and
        sneakers doesn't sell community hospitals
        or universities." And that is exactly the point that I was making in my
        previous email:

        There's an agency for everyone and everyone can do good work depending on
        what the client is looking for. And by young vs. old, it's an approach, not
        an age issue. And "older/traditional" approach works extremely well with
        clients with more traditional needs - not with consumer brands, spirits,
        fashion or entertainment (or at least not with those brands reaching to
        reach a younger consumer).

        I am glad this discussion is coming up. Just like I whole-heartedly admit
        our agency would never be of interest to an investment bank, etc. - nor
        could we do great work for them. Our approaches and strategies create great
        results for non-traditional, fashion, entertainment and other consumer
        products.

        Which brings me to this point - we have to specialize in an area of PR -
        have always thought so. If we can stick to our niche and not follow
        contracts, we can all do great work.

        --
        Ana Lydia Ochoa
        padma media & marketing
        o.310.598.5735
        f.310.598.5734
        c.310.403.5299

        We are proud to announce that the Inc.com editorial team has advanced padma
        media & marketing to the next round of the 2007 Entrepreneur of the Year
        search! We welcome your comments on our official Inc.com site:

        http://www.inc.com/entrepreneur/2007/profile/index.php?ochoa205

        ________________________________
        From: kezia_jauron <kezia@... <mailto:kezia%40evolotuspr.com> >
        To: prbytes@yahoogroups.com <mailto:prbytes%40yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 8:15:31 PM
        Subject: [prbytes] Re: Do clients really go for this?

        Their FAQ says "At launch, our clients include Coca-Cola, the world's
        largest and most valuable brand, Omnicom's GSD&M. Additional clients
        will be announced shortly." (I see no further announcements. )

        The GSD&M link doesn't work, but the company is an advertising agency,
        leading me to think it's a partner as opposed to a client in the
        strict sense. The other links on the page go to their individual blogs
        and such.

        Back to what is and isn't fun, I think we're comparing apples and
        lemons. What sells booze and sneakers doesn't sell community hospitals
        or universities. As professionals, we ought to have the wisdom to know
        the difference.

        And now: I don't mind people getting drunk on their own kool-aid and
        babbling about their past successes, but I do mind people taking
        swipes at each other. So lay off the ageism. It isn't productive, and
        it doesn't make me inclined to learn from you older, more seasoned
        members.

        To the younger, less seasoned member, Ana, I find some of your posts
        to be needlessly antagonistic. I don't necessarily disagree with the
        content, but the presentation lacks some finesse.

        Thanks to all who contribute. I hope those who don't are paying
        attention.

        K

        --- In prbytes@yahoogroups .com, ana lydia ochoa <analydiaochoa@ ...> wrote:
        >
        > Ned et all,
        >
        > Yes - all your examples are G-rated PC fun - but when you are
        working with trailblazing and trend-setting clients, none of those
        examples will do.
        >
        > As an example, when working for Nike, we launched the first
        Latino-themed sneaker named after an Aztec warrior, which was designed
        by -guess what- a Latino graffiti artist. We hosted a party at one of
        the hottest locations in town, top DJ's, VIP Latinos and other
        trend-setters, etc., etc. The event -que no se diga- it wasn't a
        cookie-making deal ;) No pun intended - it was a night in Aztec Land
        - no one in suits that night. Not a soul.
        >
        > Every media outlet in the land - both national, international -
        covered the event. And, the covetted sneaker sold out everywhere and
        landed Nike amazing impressions, etc., etc.
        >
        > A few other examples include spirits brands, (Don Julio), Heineken
        (I worked with the agency that lead the Latino launch), and I could go on.
        >
        > The basic thing I am trying to state here is this - there are
        agencies for everyone and for every client. And besides a strong
        background and strategy experience, brands that are trying to reach a
        younger and more afluent crowd have to be creative and do things
        outside of the box. And, honestly, CMO's hire those that represent
        the brand well - that being said, an investment firm wouldn't care to
        look at my credentials - however impressive they are. But a fashion,
        entertainment, beauty company loves us and our work. We 'represent'
        those brands.
        >
        > Case in point, we were organizing an international brand hired my
        previous agency (where I worked) to create a launch event for a
        'product.' The lead on the account couldn't even list the top
        restaurants or clubs in LA and he couldn't get anyone to call him
        back. I got on the phone, called a couple of people and BAM we had a
        rooftop event at a location that was booked a year in advance. Again,
        no suits - well, swimsuits a' plenty.
        >
        > Going back to the agency in question - so they aren't perfect. But
        neither are we. There's an agency out there for every client
        >
        > --
        > Ana Lydia Ochoa
        > padma media & marketing
        > o.310.598.5735
        > f.310.598.5734
        > c.310.403.5299
        >
        >
        > We are proud to announce that the Inc.com editorial team has
        advanced padma media & marketing to the next round of the 2007
        Entrepreneur of the Year search! We welcome your comments on our
        official Inc.com site:
        >
        >
        > http://www.inc com/entrepreneur /2007/profile/ index.php? ochoa205
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > ____________ _________ _________ __
        > From: Ned Barnett <ned@...>
        > To: prbytes@yahoogroups .com
        > Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 1:07:51 PM
        > Subject: RE: [prbytes] Do clients really go for this?
        >
        >
        > Ana
        >
        > That may be as you said. However, having had the CMO position half
        a dozen
        > times (when the foolish desire for "apparent" security - and the
        need for a
        > regularized income - overcame my better judgment) and in each of
        those, I
        > targeted the younger, hipper crowd (assuming you consider South
        Beach the
        > home to one of those cool, hip, young targets). And as a CMO, I
        have hired
        > agencies on at least six different occasions. It was on that basis
        that I
        > dissed this agency for their poor presentation.
        >
        > As for fun, I once staged a ground-breaking with a bbq buffet (6,600
        meals
        > were served in a town with a population of 5,800) and the ground was
        broken
        > with a guy (my boss) driving a bull-dozer (while in a thousand-dollar
        > business suit) and my son and my agency president's pre-teen daughters
        > served cokes. There were balloons and games and all kinds of stuff
        to do
        > (like a community carnival) and all had a great time. Another time,
        I used
        > a real shotgun to start a "shotgun" golf tournament (and dressed up the
        > Association' s Chairman with steel-pot combat helmet, bandoleer of
        shotgun
        > shells and my short-barreled home-defense pump gun for a publicity
        photo -
        > this guy got such a big kick out of this that when he needed a CMO
        about 30
        > months later, I was the only candidate - he was the same guy I put
        on the
        > dozer).
        >
        > I could go further - the rattlesnake hunt in the trees around my
        apartment
        > (this after I came out of the building to find what looked to be a
        42-foot
        > rattler - it was probably no more than 9 feet, but - whew) - I
        wanted them
        > gone (this was a college campus, we didn't need rattlers killing
        students .
        > though of course, faculty was fair game), so I decided to make a PR
        event
        > out of it by staging a rattler-hunt. Great PR .
        >
        > However, there's fun and then there's fun. I consulted with one
        hospital
        > and met the PR director in the cafeteria - she was dressed up like a
        clown
        > (face makeup, etc.) with baggy pants owned by the hospital's rotund
        chief
        > engineer. Not surprisingly, she was seen by the hospital as a joke, and
        > taken about as seriously as a teacup poodle guard dog.
        >
        > Anyway, I'm no stranger to "fun." But I didn't find this group echoing
        > anything other than arrogant incompetence.
        >
        > AND, I doubt that the companies listed were actually clients - note
        again
        > how few of those names link to anything.

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Pat Roche
        This entire debate was certainly interesting to read...and so I decided to check out this website. I m not sure why everyone s getting so fired up. First,
        Message 3 of 19 , Nov 17, 2008
        • 0 Attachment
          This entire debate was certainly interesting to read...and so I decided to
          check out this website. I'm not sure why everyone's getting so fired up.

          First, this "successful" marketing company only has two active links to
          outside companies -- and even though we are assuming they are clients, it
          doesn't say that. So for all we know, they have no client list. These
          could just be links to companies they admire. After all, they are doing
          some odd things on their website. It wouldn't surprise me if they linked to
          random companies. LOL!

          If you note, one of the founders lists Coca-Cola in his bio as a former
          client. And since they don't mention PR specifically, we have no idea what
          they did for Coca Cola or Oovoo. They could have written a couple of pages
          of copy or helped them with a minor project.

          The other links go to their own blogs.

          Other than that, the website doesn't say much. And no one I know has ever
          heard of them.
          In fact, they haven't updated their website since mid-2007. So maybe they
          aren't even around!

          So I'm led to believe that this is a "virtual" firm with a creative website.
          And they are taking on whatever "marketing" jobs will bring in the cash.

          Just a thought....

          Patricia



          Patricia A. Roche'
          President
          The Media & Marketing Group
          (650) 963-9884
          (650) 906-1956 (cell)
          patroche@...





          -----Original Message-----
          From: prbytes@yahoogroups.com [mailto:prbytes@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
          Kirkpatrick, Lois M.
          Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 11:56 AM
          To: prbytes@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [prbytes] Do clients really go for this?

          These people have an impressive client list and are obviously way
          successful. But my eyes started to roll about 200 words in. How about you?

          http://www.crayonville.com/press/ <http://www.crayonville.com/press/>

          (Disclaimer: I found them through clicking on a series of links. Never heard
          of them before, have nothing personal against them. My apologies in advance
          if you wrote this or are friends/family of the principals.)


          Lois Kirkpatrick, Manager
          Marketing & Strategic Analysis
          Office for Children
          Fairfax County Dept. of Family Services

          703-324-7162
          www.fairfaxcounty.gov/ofc

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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