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the death of Portland cement on straw bales in Canada?

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  • mk Lough
    without permission I submit the information below to provide further argument that Portland cement should NEVER be used in a plaster/stucco/render on straw
    Message 1 of 7 , Sep 9, 2005
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      without permission I submit the information below
      to provide further argument that Portland cement
      should NEVER be used in a plaster/stucco/render
      on straw bales I believe not even as a Pozzalan I
      would add. To do so will probably perpetuate the
      cycle of destruction that has been observed over
      many decades in Europe.

      The first comment is from Douglas a professional
      in Scotland responding to another on the REPP
      strawbale list and the second is from David
      Neeley in the US a "regular" on the same list.
      The message seems simple. Do not use Portland
      cement to cover straw balesŠunless you are only
      interested in one lifetime for the buildingŠ

      Douglas said


      >Whenever someone comments using phrases like fudging about accurately
      >calculated numbers, be aware that that's because they cant do the numbers
      >and require to denigrate the information as a means of sticking to that
      >which they are comfortable with and not what they actually know.
      >
      >Yes OPC does reabsorb CO2, its not supposed to its bad for cement, the
      >rate is very slow, yes people use 1:2 mixes with OPC, far more often than
      > you would believe, yes cement is waterproof, until it cracks and then it
      >leaks like a sieve.
      >
      >Straw bale buildings will rue the day they employed cement for their
      > stucco, not necessarily in 2-5 or even 10 years, but as they spread to
      > ever wetter areas they will start to fail and fail miserably to the entire
      > detriment of the straw by trapping the water that leaks in through
      > capillary cracks and can't evaporate. Its no different to the cement
      > applications all over the world applied to historic buildings built with
      > solid masonry walls, the damage is absolutely fundamental and irreversible
      > and I think any one should be able to make a parallel between the so
      > called durability of masonry against straw and see where this will go.
      >
      > In Europe you would need to be taking drugs to propose a cement for an
      > historic building, we are unpicking 50 years of disasters.
      >
      > Perhaps though no one cares if their straw bale is useless after a single
      > life time, if that's the case, carry on.
      >
      > Douglas.
      >
      > Scottish Lime Centre Trust
      > Rocks Road
      > Charlestown
      > Fife
      > KY11 3EN
      >
      > (T) 01383 872 722
      > (F) 01383 872 744
      > (E) slct@...
      >


      David Neeley said

      >In my opinion, there is a valid use for Portland cement in a strawbale
      >structure--as concrete makes an excellent foundation material,
      >especially in a high-fly-ash formulation that uses a relatively
      >parsimonious amount of Portland.
      >
      >On the other hand, experience worldwide is so very negative about
      >cementitious renders that I believe one would have to be seriously
      >deluded to want to use them on any structure.
      >
      >Those that have used it "successfully" in Canada in recent decades
      >have merely not been around long enough to see the same kind of
      >problems that develop over a period of years. Those who claim such
      >success seem to disbelieve the results on buildings throughout Europe,
      >or they may think that the rules of physics have been inapplicable in
      >their cases.
      >


      the case restsŠ

      Michael Lough

      a lime/sand only plasterer in Ontario
    • trevor Little
      Hi, I have been following this mailing list for a while but have never posted on it. I am a second year photojournalism student at Loyalist college, in
      Message 2 of 7 , Sep 12, 2005
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        Hi,
        I have been following this mailing list for a while but have never posted on it. I am a
        second year photojournalism student at Loyalist college, in Belleville.
        I am currently working on a story for the schools community newspaper, the Pioneer, on
        Straw bale building in the Belleville area in light of the increasing heating and energy
        costs.
        So I am basically looking for anyone in the area who has built, it building or is
        thinking about building a straw bale structure and wouldn't mind being interviewed.
        I am looking to do an article and a photo story on this subject which will hopefully
        raise awareness of straw bale as a building method and hopefully eliminate many
        misconceptions people might have about it.

        My email is photo_trev@....
        Thanks,

        Trevor Little
        photo_trev@...
        613.243.0837







        __________________________________________________________
        Find your next car at http://autos.yahoo.ca
      • Hank Carr
        Trevor, Your timing is excellent. The OSBBC is just gearing up for the Third Annual OSBBC Tour of Straw Bale Homes and Buildings. We ll have over 40 homes
        Message 3 of 7 , Sep 12, 2005
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          Trevor,

          Your timing is excellent. The OSBBC is just gearing up for the Third Annual
          OSBBC Tour of Straw Bale Homes and Buildings. We'll have over 40 homes open
          again this year including some near you. You can see the list of homes on
          the OSBBC website at http://www.strawbalebuilding.ca

          Hank.

          -----Original Message-----
          From: bale-on@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bale-on@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
          trevor Little
          Sent: Monday, September 12, 2005 10:46 AM
          To: bale-on@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [bale-on] Straw bale houses in/around the Belleville area?


          Hi,
          I have been following this mailing list for a while but have never posted on
          it. I am a
          second year photojournalism student at Loyalist college, in Belleville.
          I am currently working on a story for the schools community newspaper, the
          Pioneer, on
          Straw bale building in the Belleville area in light of the increasing
          heating and energy
          costs.
          So I am basically looking for anyone in the area who has built, it building
          or is
          thinking about building a straw bale structure and wouldn't mind being
          interviewed.
          I am looking to do an article and a photo story on this subject which will
          hopefully
          raise awareness of straw bale as a building method and hopefully eliminate
          many
          misconceptions people might have about it.

          My email is photo_trev@....
          Thanks,

          Trevor Little
          photo_trev@...
          613.243.0837







          __________________________________________________________
          Find your next car at http://autos.yahoo.ca



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        • Jason Woodall
          Isn t there a new strawbale being built in Hastings this year?? (Already done??, maybe next year) ... From: bale-on@yahoogroups.com
          Message 4 of 7 , Sep 12, 2005
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            Isn't there a new strawbale being built in Hastings this year?? (Already
            done??, maybe next year)

            -----Original Message-----
            From: bale-on@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bale-on@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
            Of trevor Little
            Sent: Monday, September 12, 2005 10:46 AM
            To: bale-on@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [bale-on] Straw bale houses in/around the Belleville area?


            Hi,
            I have been following this mailing list for a while but have never
            posted on it. I am a second year photojournalism student at Loyalist
            college, in Belleville. I am currently working on a story for the
            schools community newspaper, the Pioneer, on Straw bale building in the
            Belleville area in light of the increasing heating and energy costs.
            So I am basically looking for anyone in the area who has built, it
            building or is thinking about building a straw bale structure and
            wouldn't mind being interviewed.
            I am looking to do an article and a photo story on this subject which
            will hopefully raise awareness of straw bale as a building method and
            hopefully eliminate many misconceptions people might have about it.

            My email is photo_trev@....
            Thanks,

            Trevor Little
            photo_trev@...
            613.243.0837







            __________________________________________________________
            Find your next car at http://autos.yahoo.ca




            Yahoo! Groups Links
          • woldgood9
            ... Michael..not attacking the veracity of your claims..just questioning what OPC is that is referenced in the first quotation from Scotland.. ...fwiw...
            Message 5 of 7 , Sep 12, 2005
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              > >Yes OPC does reabsorb CO2,

              Michael..not attacking the veracity of your claims..just questioning
              what "OPC" is that is referenced in the first quotation from Scotland..
              ...fwiw...
              Kent
              PS... I don't think there is any permission needed to question a
              practice that has been used.. this is a reasonably open forum with
              members being encouraged to question the answers given.. as both the
              Scottish and American contributors point out... (paraphrased of
              course! ;-) "Time will tell..." I personally am not about to get into
              an argument of the permeability of Concrete or Cement vs any other
              Plaster.. to many opinions.. not enough (StrawBale) experience...
              besides I am simply an rank amateur with a little bit of training in
              structures and such ....
            • trevor Little
              Hey Everyone, Just wondering if anyone with a house on the tour would mind having a few photos taken of their house for an article I am working on. I kinda
              Message 6 of 7 , Sep 22, 2005
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                Hey Everyone,

                Just wondering if anyone with a house on the tour would mind having a few photos taken of
                their house for an article I am working on. I kinda need a shot by next monday so I can
                get it in the paper (weekly) before the OSBBC tour on the first.
                If anyone can help me out email me - photo_trev@..., or call me 613.243.0837.
                I was looking at the tour list on the OSBBC site, but there are no phone numbers.
                Thanks in advance,
                Trevor Little

                --- Jason Woodall <jasonwoodall@...> wrote:

                > Isn't there a new strawbale being built in Hastings this year?? (Already
                > done??, maybe next year)
                >
                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: bale-on@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bale-on@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                > Of trevor Little
                > Sent: Monday, September 12, 2005 10:46 AM
                > To: bale-on@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: [bale-on] Straw bale houses in/around the Belleville area?
                >
                >
                > Hi,
                > I have been following this mailing list for a while but have never
                > posted on it. I am a second year photojournalism student at Loyalist
                > college, in Belleville. I am currently working on a story for the
                > schools community newspaper, the Pioneer, on Straw bale building in the
                > Belleville area in light of the increasing heating and energy costs.
                > So I am basically looking for anyone in the area who has built, it
                > building or is thinking about building a straw bale structure and
                > wouldn't mind being interviewed.
                > I am looking to do an article and a photo story on this subject which
                > will hopefully raise awareness of straw bale as a building method and
                > hopefully eliminate many misconceptions people might have about it.
                >
                > My email is photo_trev@....
                > Thanks,
                >
                > Trevor Little
                > photo_trev@...
                > 613.243.0837
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > __________________________________________________________
                > Find your next car at http://autos.yahoo.ca
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              • ben@harvesthomes.ca
                Hi Trevor, Moto-Houde PowerSports is a metal exterior, straw bale insulated interior commercial storefront and repairshop/warehouse between Belleville and
                Message 7 of 7 , Sep 22, 2005
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                  Hi Trevor,

                  Moto-Houde PowerSports is a metal exterior, straw bale insulated interior
                  commercial storefront and repairshop/warehouse between Belleville and Trenton
                  on Hwy 2. Doesn't look like a typical straw bale building (if there is such
                  thing) but is interesting in terms of federal funding that they
                  accessed due to
                  use of straw and other energy technologies and for the simple fact that
                  it is a
                  rare Canadian commercial building example using straw.

                  The straw work was contracted by Camel's Back and I spent a few weeks
                  apprenticing with them on that project some 5 or 6 years ago. Contact info
                  should be in the phone book.

                  Good luck.

                  Cheers,
                  Ben Polley
                  Owner/Worker

                  Harvest Homes
                  Elegant. Efficient. Ecological.

                  www.harvesthomes.ca

                  Quoting trevor Little <photo_trev@...>:

                  > Hey Everyone,
                  >
                  > Just wondering if anyone with a house on the tour would mind having a
                  > few photos taken of
                  > their house for an article I am working on. I kinda need a shot by
                  > next monday so I can
                  > get it in the paper (weekly) before the OSBBC tour on the first.
                  > If anyone can help me out email me - photo_trev@..., or call me
                  > 613.243.0837.
                  > I was looking at the tour list on the OSBBC site, but there are no
                  > phone numbers.
                  > Thanks in advance,
                  > Trevor Little
                  >
                  > --- Jason Woodall <jasonwoodall@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >> Isn't there a new strawbale being built in Hastings this year?? (Already
                  >> done??, maybe next year)
                  >>
                  >> -----Original Message-----
                  >> From: bale-on@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bale-on@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                  >> Of trevor Little
                  >> Sent: Monday, September 12, 2005 10:46 AM
                  >> To: bale-on@yahoogroups.com
                  >> Subject: [bale-on] Straw bale houses in/around the Belleville area?
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> Hi,
                  >> I have been following this mailing list for a while but have never
                  >> posted on it. I am a second year photojournalism student at Loyalist
                  >> college, in Belleville. I am currently working on a story for the
                  >> schools community newspaper, the Pioneer, on Straw bale building in the
                  >> Belleville area in light of the increasing heating and energy costs.
                  >> So I am basically looking for anyone in the area who has built, it
                  >> building or is thinking about building a straw bale structure and
                  >> wouldn't mind being interviewed.
                  >> I am looking to do an article and a photo story on this subject which
                  >> will hopefully raise awareness of straw bale as a building method and
                  >> hopefully eliminate many misconceptions people might have about it.
                  >>
                  >> My email is photo_trev@....
                  >> Thanks,
                  >>
                  >> Trevor Little
                  >> photo_trev@...
                  >> 613.243.0837
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> __________________________________________________________
                  >> Find your next car at http://autos.yahoo.ca
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >
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