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Re: This can't be good....

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  • sky.monkey@ymail.com
    Hi everyone, I was going to post a link to my DIY project on here to get some feedback, but found that I was way behind some of you – So thanks for the
    Message 1 of 27 , Nov 30, 2011
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      Hi everyone, I was going to post a link to my DIY project on here to get some feedback, but found that I was way behind some of you – So thanks for the feedback :)

      I certainly don't want to pretend that I know everything there is to about paramotoring (and hope it hasn't seemed so thus far) – The one thing I am however confident of is that the DIY setup I have built and documented is safer (and less expensive) than some of the equipment available on the used market, as well as some of the other DIY setups previously built and documented by others online.

      At first, I was a bit hesitant to post a project like this for fear of someone attempting to copy it without taking the proper safety precautions, and having a good grasp of what a project like this involves. There are two major reasons that I decided to post it:

      1. There are already plans floating around the internet for DIY paramotor frames – some of which do not address some of the safety issues associated with outdated equipment. There are people who despite clear warnings will still decide to build their own equipment, and I am confident that the example I have shown is safer than some previous examples. I believe that the more information that is available to people - the better off they are

      2. A couple months ago, I met a young kid who purchased outdated equipment which was in rough shape - I was genuinely scared seeing it - and knowing that he trusted his life to it. As I suggest in multiple places in my instructable- If you can afford to purchase new equipment (or up-to-date used equipment) then by all means do so- I know however that there are people who will attempt to enter the sport with outdated equipment, or by making their own inadequate equipment.
      I designed the frame with "Flattop/walkerjet style" hangpoints as from what I have seen, wide, fixed hangpoints are less-likely to undergo riser twist (I may be wrong on this- and other things, and If so, would appreciate someone correcting me), and they also provide a buffer in the event of a faceplant - haven't had to test that yet. It seems to weight-shift quite well; however others would be a better judge of that.

      I am certainly not the first person to make a one-piece cage, and there are a number of reasons why. In regards to the concerns Robin brought up, I don't see the design as a commercially sold piece of equipment. If a person is capable of making the frame themselves, then cutting out and replacing parts that might get bent or damaged isn't really a big deal, and is likely much cheaper than replacing a section of a commercially sold unit. (In fact, building a entire new frame like mine would be cheaper than buying some commercially sold replacement cage sections)

      Also Robin, the recoil does not contact the frame (which I agree would be "bad,bad,bad") – I understand that you are trying to be critical for my own good– but I think it's safe for you to assume I have a respectable level of common sense

      As far as transport goes- different people have different requirements. I have run out of gas miles from home and required a friend to pick me up – I simply leave a key hidden on my car, and ask the person to grab my car and pick me up with it – Its much quicker, and easier than having to worry about getting someone else's trunk/backseat crummy, stinky, wet, dirty etc.

      Threading the netting – I agree that washers, eyelets, rivets etc, may make stringing the cage easier. I wanted to keep this setup as simple and inexpensive as possible, so I went with holes. My solution for threading the net is to stiffen a straight section of the string with super glue – the string then has it's own "needle" and makes the process go pretty quick.

      Terry – you are almost spot-on "it's a weekend project he can learn from, or toss out to begin again" although it took me two weekends and 5 weeknights, I view it as a work in progress, and I have learned a lot already. Plus its only cost me $13 worth of conduit, some seatbelt webbing, a bunch of odds n ends I already had, and my free-time.

      I apologize for the length of this post, but figured it was easier to do a single one than multiple repetitive ones. I would very much like to meet all of you, and hopefully will in the future at ppg events. I am interested in learning everything I can about the sport, and better understand where its future is headed. My background in PPG is somewhat limited, but outside the sport is rather broad. There are rather few foot launch pilots in my local area, and thus I have only been exposed to a small niche of the sport thus far. Thanks again for the input (honestly, all of it)



      --- In ppgbiglist@yahoogroups.com, flyguy@... wrote:
      >
      > You betcha! Just writing it up, taking pictures, and doing drawings is MORE than a weekend project. Kudos to the guy for doing all the work! His design is nice but not perfect. I don't know of ANY perfect designs.
      >
      > I admit it! He is one clever dude!
      >
      > Robin
      >
      >
      > On Fri 18/11/11 2:51 PM , "terry l" tllutke52@... sent:
      > > Robin, it's a weekend project he can learn from, or toss out to
      > > begin again..He's very clever dude, admit it.
      > > Terry
      > > --- In , flyguy@ wrote:
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > There are an awful lot of "Gotchas" in his design. He will learn
      > > most of them really fast. I sure hope no one copies his unit!
      > > >
      > > > Robin
      > > >
      > > > On Thu 17/11/11 11:06 PM , PPG Mexico paramotormexico@ sent:
      > > > > Quite impressive!
      > > > > Jorge
      > > > > On Nov 17, 2011, at 10:17, "erorc" wrote:
      > > > > > How to build and fly a paramotor, on a site full of DIY
      > > fudgery,
      > > > > hackery and general Rube-Goldbergness.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > http://www.instructables.com/id/Build-and-Fly-a-Paramotor/ [2]
      > > [2]
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > Links:
      > > > > ------
      > > > > [2] http://www.instructables.com/id/Build-and-Fly-a-Paramotor/
      > > [3]
      > > > > [5]
      > > > >
      > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ppgbiglist/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJxNWVqMHBjBF9TAzk3
      > > [4]
      > > > >
      > > MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzc5MzU2NzEEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NDMxOTUzBG1zZ0lkAzg2ODg2BHNlYwN
      > > > >
      > > mdHIEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTMyMTU4OTI0Ng--?act=reply&messageNum=86886[6]
      > > > >
      > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ppgbiglist/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJlcTdndGg3BF9TAzk3
      > > [5]
      > > > >
      > > MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzc5MzU2NzEEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NDMxOTUzBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGM
      > > > > Ec3RpbWUDMTMyMTU4OTI0Ng--[7]
      > > > >
      > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ppgbiglist/message/86868;_ylc=X3oDMTM2bjk4aWd
      > > [6]
      > > > >
      > > nBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzc5MzU2NzEEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NDMxOTUzBG1zZ0lkAzg2OD
      > > > >
      > > g2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3Z0cGMEc3RpbWUDMTMyMTU4OTI0NgR0cGNJZAM4Njg2OA--[8]
      > > > >
      > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ppgbiglist/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJmZTY1b2VtBF9TA
      > > [7]
      > > > >
      > > zk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzc5MzU2NzEEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NDMxOTUzBHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3Zt
      > > > > YnJzBHN0aW1lAzEzMjE1ODkyNDY-?o=6[9]
      > > > >
      > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ppgbiglist/spnew;_ylc=X3oDMTJmaG1zbzJwBF9TAzk
      > > [8]
      > > > >
      > > 3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzc5MzU2NzEEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NDMxOTUzBHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZwaG
      > > > > 90BHN0aW1lAzEzMjE1ODkyNDY-[10]
      > > > >
      > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ppgbiglist;_ylc=X3oDMTJlZXBwa2tjBF9TAzk3MzU5N
      > > [9]
      > > > >
      > > zE0BGdycElkAzc5MzU2NzEEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NDMxOTUzBHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3Rp
      > > > > bWUDMTMyMTU4OTI0Ng--[11] http://tinyurl.com/zd8s8 [10]
      > > > > [12]
      > > > >
      > > http://global.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=15or9ktjt/M=493064.14543979.14562481.132984
      > > [11]
      > > > >
      > > 30/D=groups/S=1705431953:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1321596446/L=d37b2a70-119a-11e1-a
      > > > >
      > > 1f1-e7c9205ebfba/B=6WuKF0oGYmM-/J=1321589246875260/K=NpMF0KdU1IlbPZOPmd29Ng
      > > > >
      > > /A=6060255/R=0/SIG=1194m4keh/*http://us.toolbar.yahoo.com/?.cpdl=grpj
      > > [12][13]
      > > > >
      > > http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJkaGMxNnFuBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzc5M
      > > [13]
      > > > >
      > > zU2NzEEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NDMxOTUzBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2dmcARzdGltZQMxMzIxNTg5MjQ2
      > > [17]http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ [14]
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Links:
      > > ------
      > > [2] http://www.instructables.com/id/Build-and-Fly-a-Paramotor/
      > > [3] http://www.instructables.com/id/Build-and-Fly-a-Paramotor/
      > > [4]
      > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ppgbiglist/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJxNWVqMHBjBF9TAzk3
      > > [5]
      > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ppgbiglist/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJlcTdndGg3BF9TAzk3
      > > [6]
      > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ppgbiglist/message/86868;_ylc=X3oDMTM2bjk4aWd
      > > [7]
      > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ppgbiglist/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJmZTY1b2VtBF9TA
      > > [8]
      > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ppgbiglist/spnew;_ylc=X3oDMTJmaG1zbzJwBF9TAzk
      > > [9]
      > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ppgbiglist;_ylc=X3oDMTJlZXBwa2tjBF9TAzk3MzU5N
      > > [10] http://tinyurl.com/zd8s8
      > > [11]
      > > http://global.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=15or9ktjt/M=493064.14543979.14562481.132984
      > > [12] http://us.toolbar.yahoo.com/?.cpdl=grpj
      > > [13]
      > > http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJkaGMxNnFuBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzc5M
      > > [14] http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      > > [17]
      > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ppgbiglist/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJxMWtrajAwBF9TAzk3
      > > MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzc5MzU2NzEEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NDMxOTUzBG1zZ0lkAzg2OTMyBHNlYwN
      > > mdHIEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTMyMTY0NTkzNw--?act=reply&messageNum=86932[18]
      > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ppgbiglist/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJlc2lhYTEwBF9TAzk3
      > > MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzc5MzU2NzEEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NDMxOTUzBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGM
      > > Ec3RpbWUDMTMyMTY0NTkzNw--[19]
      > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ppgbiglist/message/86868;_ylc=X3oDMTM2dDhiY2w
      > > 2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzc5MzU2NzEEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NDMxOTUzBG1zZ0lkAzg2OT
      > > MyBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3Z0cGMEc3RpbWUDMTMyMTY0NTkzNwR0cGNJZAM4Njg2OA--[20]
      > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ppgbiglist/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJmNGI5c2lwBF9TA
      > > zk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzc5MzU2NzEEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NDMxOTUzBHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3Zt
      > > YnJzBHN0aW1lAzEzMjE2NDU5Mzc-?o=6[21]
      > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ppgbiglist/spnew;_ylc=X3oDMTJmdmV0bmNuBF9TAzk
      > > 3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzc5MzU2NzEEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NDMxOTUzBHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZwaG
      > > 90BHN0aW1lAzEzMjE2NDU5Mzc-[22]
      > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ppgbiglist;_ylc=X3oDMTJlN3NzMGc4BF9TAzk3MzU5N
      > > zE0BGdycElkAzc5MzU2NzEEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NDMxOTUzBHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3Rp
      > > bWUDMTMyMTY0NTkzNw--[23] http://tinyurl.com/zd8s8
      > > [24]
      > > http://global.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=15ok3f6k8/M=493064.14543979.14562481.132984
      > > 30/D=groups/S=1705431953:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1321653137/L=d1af361c-121e-11e1-9
      > > 241-57401303a2da/B=2mp3B0oGYq0-/J=1321645937402868/K=qFax5rZuP.wvRTZ_ob93qg
      > > /A=6060255/R=0/SIG=1194m4keh/*http://us.toolbar.yahoo.com/?.cpdl=grpj[25]
      > > http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJkOXZnbzNoBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzc5M
      > > zU2NzEEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NDMxOTUzBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2dmcARzdGltZQMxMzIxNjQ1OTM3[29] http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      > >
      > >
      >
    • flyguy@knology.net
      Forgive me my friend. My intent was not to be nasty critical, but helpful critical. I hope that I did not offend. None of us are experts, save maybe Eric
      Message 2 of 27 , Dec 1, 2011
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        Forgive me my friend. My intent was not to be nasty critical, but helpful critical. I hope that I did not offend.

        None of us are experts, save maybe Eric Dufour. But having built frames from scratch, I knew a few gotchas that got me and thought that I would point them out. I'm bad about spotting other peoples' problems and not my own.

        You have done a lot of good work. I hope you keep it up. I hope that you will continue to share your findings. We will all then be able to learn from you!

        Merry Christmas!

        Robin
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