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Re: Wind and trikes questions

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  • tllutke52
    Roddy; On average I would say that trikes tend to feel more fore/aft pitchy in busy air as compared with footlaunch. Here s my theory... even when trikes are
    Message 1 of 17 , Jan 1, 2010
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      Roddy;
      On average I would say that trikes tend to feel more fore/aft pitchy in busy air as compared with footlaunch.
      Here's my theory... even when trikes are properly balanced there is more weight farther from the CG than with a paramotor. Once this weight goes into motion there tends to be a slightly enhanced see/saw action compared with footlaunch.

      Some paramotors have low riser hookin points; this configuation increases weight shift potential for the pilot, but also increases 'feedback' from the glider.

      Generally speaking, in both cases higher riser hook-in points, tranlates into less turbulence feedback from the glider.

      Terry
      www.falcon4strokeppg.com

      --- In ppgbiglist@yahoogroups.com, "Roddy" <roddydoodah@...> wrote:
      >
      > I have heard people say trikes are less likely to rock due to choppy wind. I have also heard people say trikes are MORE likely to rock due to wind. My trikebuggy is heavy in the wing.
      >
      > Who is right?
      >
      > Also I realize that my trike is very heavy in the wing and I have a rather long takeoff run. Since I almost always fly in little or no wind, the wing often comes up squirrelly. Any thoughts for how to lay out the wing to minimize that?
      >
    • soarzion
      I use the butterfly layout. You lay the wing out flat. Then pull the center up about 2 feet. so you now have a horseshoe layout. Now bunch up trailing edge at
      Message 2 of 17 , Jan 1, 2010
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        I use the butterfly layout. You lay the wing out flat. Then pull the center up about 2 feet. so you now have a horseshoe layout. Now bunch up trailing edge at the center of the wing to the leading edge. Now it will come up center first with the wing tips opening after. I learned this lay out from the trike master Chad Bastian.
        ,
        --- In ppgbiglist@yahoogroups.com, "Roddy" <roddydoodah@...> wrote:
        >
        > I have heard people say trikes are less likely to rock due to choppy wind. I have also heard people say trikes are MORE likely to rock due to wind. My trikebuggy is heavy in the wing.
        >
        > Who is right?
        >
        > Also I realize that my trike is very heavy in the wing and I have a rather long takeoff run. Since I almost always fly in little or no wind, the wing often comes up squirrelly. Any thoughts for how to lay out the wing to minimize that?
        >
      • Robert Archer
        Grego,   I also use the A-assist on my Skycruiser, and like you said Stupid Proof . Works terrific! Leon Wacker has designed his Skycruiser to use different
        Message 3 of 17 , Jan 1, 2010
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          Grego,

            I also use the A-assist on my Skycruiser, and like you said "Stupid Proof". Works terrific! Leon Wacker has designed his Skycruiser to use different A-assist for different wings, as not all risers are the same. They sure do take the worry out of the equation as far as holding those A's.

          Robert




          ________________________________
          From: Greg <g2@...>
          To: ppgbiglist@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Fri, January 1, 2010 12:37:01 AM
          Subject: RE: [ppgbiglist] Re: Wind and trikes questions

           
          I use an "A" assist and it is stupid proof. You just and power and the wing
          comes up perfectly. No holing the A's at all. What was said about the motor
          angle is correct. My motor on my flash trike is angled up so the blast blows
          over it right at first.

          Grego

          -----Original Message-----
          From: ppgbiglist@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:ppgbiglist@yahoogro ups.com] On
          Behalf Of Beery
          Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 7:26 PM
          To: ppgbiglist@yahoogro ups.com
          Subject: [ppgbiglist] Re: Wind and trikes questions

          Roddy,

          I don't know what wing you have, but some wings don't pull up as easily as
          others. I've seen some brands that have wing tips that pull up fast and
          their centers collapse in and takes a bit of air movement to fill the
          center. Other wings, they seem to have no problems.

          Squirrelly wings can be due to the type of wing, how you are laying it out,
          or even simple things like perhaps a line catching on the cage or the
          ground.

          Wat you may want to do is have someone film a few of your launches so
          individuals can critique what you are doing if that is possible.

          If you can get some video, then a much better assessment to your situation
          can be made.

          Beery

          --- In ppgbiglist@yahoogro ups.com, "Roddy" <roddydoodah@ ...> wrote:
          >
          > I have heard people say trikes are less likely to rock due to choppy wind.
          I have also heard people say trikes are MORE likely to rock due to wind. My
          trikebuggy is heavy in the wing.
          >
          > Who is right?
          >
          > Also I realize that my trike is very heavy in the wing and I have a rather
          long takeoff run. Since I almost always fly in little or no wind, the wing
          often comes up squirrelly. Any thoughts for how to lay out the wing to
          minimize that?
          >

          ------------ --------- --------- ------

          PPG Questions? See the PPG Frequently Asked Questions at
          http://tinyurl. com/zd8s8Yahoo! Groups Links







          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • tllutke52
          Robert; I m starting to train ppg trike without A assist again, for many students there is something useful, and even logical about tugging the A s with their
          Message 4 of 17 , Jan 1, 2010
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            Robert;
            I'm starting to train ppg trike without A'assist again, for many students there is something useful, and even logical about tugging the A's with their hands.

            TerryL

            --- In ppgbiglist@yahoogroups.com, Robert Archer <blackjack2359@...> wrote:
            >
            > Grego,
            >
            >   I also use the A-assist on my Skycruiser, and like you said "Stupid Proof". Works terrific! Leon Wacker has designed his Skycruiser to use different A-assist for different wings, as not all risers are the same. They sure do take the worry out of the equation as far as holding those A's.
            >
            > Robert
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > ________________________________
            > From: Greg <g2@...>
            > To: ppgbiglist@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Fri, January 1, 2010 12:37:01 AM
            > Subject: RE: [ppgbiglist] Re: Wind and trikes questions
            >
            >  
            > I use an "A" assist and it is stupid proof. You just and power and the wing
            > comes up perfectly. No holing the A's at all. What was said about the motor
            > angle is correct. My motor on my flash trike is angled up so the blast blows
            > over it right at first.
            >
            > Grego
            >
            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: ppgbiglist@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:ppgbiglist@yahoogro ups.com] On
            > Behalf Of Beery
            > Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 7:26 PM
            > To: ppgbiglist@yahoogro ups.com
            > Subject: [ppgbiglist] Re: Wind and trikes questions
            >
            > Roddy,
            >
            > I don't know what wing you have, but some wings don't pull up as easily as
            > others. I've seen some brands that have wing tips that pull up fast and
            > their centers collapse in and takes a bit of air movement to fill the
            > center. Other wings, they seem to have no problems.
            >
            > Squirrelly wings can be due to the type of wing, how you are laying it out,
            > or even simple things like perhaps a line catching on the cage or the
            > ground.
            >
            > Wat you may want to do is have someone film a few of your launches so
            > individuals can critique what you are doing if that is possible.
            >
            > If you can get some video, then a much better assessment to your situation
            > can be made.
            >
            > Beery
            >
            > --- In ppgbiglist@yahoogro ups.com, "Roddy" <roddydoodah@ ...> wrote:
            > >
            > > I have heard people say trikes are less likely to rock due to choppy wind.
            > I have also heard people say trikes are MORE likely to rock due to wind. My
            > trikebuggy is heavy in the wing.
            > >
            > > Who is right?
            > >
            > > Also I realize that my trike is very heavy in the wing and I have a rather
            > long takeoff run. Since I almost always fly in little or no wind, the wing
            > often comes up squirrelly. Any thoughts for how to lay out the wing to
            > minimize that?
            > >
            >
            > ------------ --------- --------- ------
            >
            > PPG Questions? See the PPG Frequently Asked Questions at
            > http://tinyurl. com/zd8s8Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • Greg
            Terry, I can see going back to A s once you have a few flights under your belt. Wayne Mitchler told me they take one of the problems out of the mix when
            Message 5 of 17 , Jan 1, 2010
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              Terry,

              I can see going back to A's once you have a few flights under your belt.
              Wayne Mitchler told me they take one of the problems out of the mix when
              training. I have launched both ways. What I like about the A assist is I can
              ease into my power smoother and it's for me a more comfortable launch. I do
              agree that there is something to be said for being proficient in holding the
              A's.

              Grego

              -----Original Message-----
              From: ppgbiglist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ppgbiglist@yahoogroups.com] On
              Behalf Of tllutke52
              Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 9:05 AM
              To: ppgbiglist@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [ppgbiglist] Re: Wind and trikes questions

              Robert;
              I'm starting to train ppg trike without A'assist again, for many students
              there is something useful, and even logical about tugging the A's with their
              hands.

              TerryL

              --- In ppgbiglist@yahoogroups.com, Robert Archer <blackjack2359@...> wrote:
              >
              > Grego,
              >
              >   I also use the A-assist on my Skycruiser, and like you said "Stupid
              Proof". Works terrific! Leon Wacker has designed his Skycruiser to use
              different A-assist for different wings, as not all risers are the same. They
              sure do take the worry out of the equation as far as holding those A's.
              >
              > Robert
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > ________________________________
              > From: Greg <g2@...>
              > To: ppgbiglist@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Fri, January 1, 2010 12:37:01 AM
              > Subject: RE: [ppgbiglist] Re: Wind and trikes questions
              >
              >  
              > I use an "A" assist and it is stupid proof. You just and power and the
              wing
              > comes up perfectly. No holing the A's at all. What was said about the
              motor
              > angle is correct. My motor on my flash trike is angled up so the blast
              blows
              > over it right at first.
              >
              > Grego
              >
              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: ppgbiglist@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:ppgbiglist@yahoogro ups.com] On
              > Behalf Of Beery
              > Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 7:26 PM
              > To: ppgbiglist@yahoogro ups.com
              > Subject: [ppgbiglist] Re: Wind and trikes questions
              >
              > Roddy,
              >
              > I don't know what wing you have, but some wings don't pull up as easily as
              > others. I've seen some brands that have wing tips that pull up fast and
              > their centers collapse in and takes a bit of air movement to fill the
              > center. Other wings, they seem to have no problems.
              >
              > Squirrelly wings can be due to the type of wing, how you are laying it
              out,
              > or even simple things like perhaps a line catching on the cage or the
              > ground.
              >
              > Wat you may want to do is have someone film a few of your launches so
              > individuals can critique what you are doing if that is possible.
              >
              > If you can get some video, then a much better assessment to your situation
              > can be made.
              >
              > Beery
              >
              > --- In ppgbiglist@yahoogro ups.com, "Roddy" <roddydoodah@ ...> wrote:
              > >
              > > I have heard people say trikes are less likely to rock due to choppy
              wind.
              > I have also heard people say trikes are MORE likely to rock due to wind.
              My
              > trikebuggy is heavy in the wing.
              > >
              > > Who is right?
              > >
              > > Also I realize that my trike is very heavy in the wing and I have a
              rather
              > long takeoff run. Since I almost always fly in little or no wind, the wing
              > often comes up squirrelly. Any thoughts for how to lay out the wing to
              > minimize that?
              > >
              >
              > ------------ --------- --------- ------
              >
              > PPG Questions? See the PPG Frequently Asked Questions at
              > http://tinyurl. com/zd8s8Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >




              ------------------------------------

              PPG Questions? See the PPG Frequently Asked Questions at
              http://tinyurl.com/zd8s8Yahoo! Groups Links
            • John
              Terry Robert is actually one of my students and he can tell you he spent many days pulling not only the A s but B s C s D s as I require all of my students to
              Message 6 of 17 , Jan 1, 2010
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                Terry
                Robert is actually one of my students and he can tell you he spent many days pulling not only the A's but B's C's D's as I require all of my students to learn multiple ways of controlling the glider including no hands before they attempt their first flight.

                --- In ppgbiglist@yahoogroups.com, "tllutke52" <tllutke52@...> wrote:
                >
                > Robert;
                > I'm starting to train ppg trike without A'assist again, for many students there is something useful, and even logical about tugging the A's with their hands.
                >
                > TerryL
                >
                > --- In ppgbiglist@yahoogroups.com, Robert Archer <blackjack2359@> wrote:
                > >
                > > Grego,
                > >
                > >   I also use the A-assist on my Skycruiser, and like you said "Stupid Proof". Works terrific! Leon Wacker has designed his Skycruiser to use different A-assist for different wings, as not all risers are the same. They sure do take the worry out of the equation as far as holding those A's.
                > >
                > > Robert
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > ________________________________
                > > From: Greg <g2@>
                > > To: ppgbiglist@yahoogroups.com
                > > Sent: Fri, January 1, 2010 12:37:01 AM
                > > Subject: RE: [ppgbiglist] Re: Wind and trikes questions
                > >
                > >  
                > > I use an "A" assist and it is stupid proof. You just and power and the wing
                > > comes up perfectly. No holing the A's at all. What was said about the motor
                > > angle is correct. My motor on my flash trike is angled up so the blast blows
                > > over it right at first.
                > >
                > > Grego
                > >
                > > -----Original Message-----
                > > From: ppgbiglist@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:ppgbiglist@yahoogro ups.com] On
                > > Behalf Of Beery
                > > Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 7:26 PM
                > > To: ppgbiglist@yahoogro ups.com
                > > Subject: [ppgbiglist] Re: Wind and trikes questions
                > >
                > > Roddy,
                > >
                > > I don't know what wing you have, but some wings don't pull up as easily as
                > > others. I've seen some brands that have wing tips that pull up fast and
                > > their centers collapse in and takes a bit of air movement to fill the
                > > center. Other wings, they seem to have no problems.
                > >
                > > Squirrelly wings can be due to the type of wing, how you are laying it out,
                > > or even simple things like perhaps a line catching on the cage or the
                > > ground.
                > >
                > > Wat you may want to do is have someone film a few of your launches so
                > > individuals can critique what you are doing if that is possible.
                > >
                > > If you can get some video, then a much better assessment to your situation
                > > can be made.
                > >
                > > Beery
                > >
                > > --- In ppgbiglist@yahoogro ups.com, "Roddy" <roddydoodah@ ...> wrote:
                > > >
                > > > I have heard people say trikes are less likely to rock due to choppy wind.
                > > I have also heard people say trikes are MORE likely to rock due to wind. My
                > > trikebuggy is heavy in the wing.
                > > >
                > > > Who is right?
                > > >
                > > > Also I realize that my trike is very heavy in the wing and I have a rather
                > > long takeoff run. Since I almost always fly in little or no wind, the wing
                > > often comes up squirrelly. Any thoughts for how to lay out the wing to
                > > minimize that?
                > > >
                > >
                > > ------------ --------- --------- ------
                > >
                > > PPG Questions? See the PPG Frequently Asked Questions at
                > > http://tinyurl. com/zd8s8Yahoo! Groups Links
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                >
              • Roddy
                Thanks to all for the many ideas. I have been using A assist all the while I have been flying. Maybe I am a fool but they are just not fool proof at all. The
                Message 7 of 17 , Jan 1, 2010
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                  Thanks to all for the many ideas. I have been using A assist all the while I have been flying. Maybe I am a fool but they are just not fool proof at all.

                  The engine angle looks like the culprit here.

                  Mind you, most of my takeoffs are smooth and uneventful. But as I said, no wind creates a problem for the power up phase.

                  I will contact Chad. And thanks for the ideas about layout. I am careful about layout but I have never done it exactly as you suggested.

                  Very very helpful ideas, guys.









                  --- In ppgbiglist@yahoogroups.com, "John" <captcaptcapt@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Terry
                  > Robert is actually one of my students and he can tell you he spent many days pulling not only the A's but B's C's D's as I require all of my students to learn multiple ways of controlling the glider including no hands before they attempt their first flight.
                  >
                  > --- In ppgbiglist@yahoogroups.com, "tllutke52" <tllutke52@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Robert;
                  > > I'm starting to train ppg trike without A'assist again, for many students there is something useful, and even logical about tugging the A's with their hands.
                  > >
                  > > TerryL
                  > >
                  > > --- In ppgbiglist@yahoogroups.com, Robert Archer <blackjack2359@> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > Grego,
                  > > >
                  > > >   I also use the A-assist on my Skycruiser, and like you said "Stupid Proof". Works terrific! Leon Wacker has designed his Skycruiser to use different A-assist for different wings, as not all risers are the same. They sure do take the worry out of the equation as far as holding those A's.
                  > > >
                  > > > Robert
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > ________________________________
                  > > > From: Greg <g2@>
                  > > > To: ppgbiglist@yahoogroups.com
                  > > > Sent: Fri, January 1, 2010 12:37:01 AM
                  > > > Subject: RE: [ppgbiglist] Re: Wind and trikes questions
                  > > >
                  > > >  
                  > > > I use an "A" assist and it is stupid proof. You just and power and the wing
                  > > > comes up perfectly. No holing the A's at all. What was said about the motor
                  > > > angle is correct. My motor on my flash trike is angled up so the blast blows
                  > > > over it right at first.
                  > > >
                  > > > Grego
                  > > >
                  > > > -----Original Message-----
                  > > > From: ppgbiglist@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:ppgbiglist@yahoogro ups.com] On
                  > > > Behalf Of Beery
                  > > > Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 7:26 PM
                  > > > To: ppgbiglist@yahoogro ups.com
                  > > > Subject: [ppgbiglist] Re: Wind and trikes questions
                  > > >
                  > > > Roddy,
                  > > >
                  > > > I don't know what wing you have, but some wings don't pull up as easily as
                  > > > others. I've seen some brands that have wing tips that pull up fast and
                  > > > their centers collapse in and takes a bit of air movement to fill the
                  > > > center. Other wings, they seem to have no problems.
                  > > >
                  > > > Squirrelly wings can be due to the type of wing, how you are laying it out,
                  > > > or even simple things like perhaps a line catching on the cage or the
                  > > > ground.
                  > > >
                  > > > Wat you may want to do is have someone film a few of your launches so
                  > > > individuals can critique what you are doing if that is possible.
                  > > >
                  > > > If you can get some video, then a much better assessment to your situation
                  > > > can be made.
                  > > >
                  > > > Beery
                  > > >
                  > > > --- In ppgbiglist@yahoogro ups.com, "Roddy" <roddydoodah@ ...> wrote:
                  > > > >
                  > > > > I have heard people say trikes are less likely to rock due to choppy wind.
                  > > > I have also heard people say trikes are MORE likely to rock due to wind. My
                  > > > trikebuggy is heavy in the wing.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Who is right?
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Also I realize that my trike is very heavy in the wing and I have a rather
                  > > > long takeoff run. Since I almost always fly in little or no wind, the wing
                  > > > often comes up squirrelly. Any thoughts for how to lay out the wing to
                  > > > minimize that?
                  > > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------
                  > > >
                  > > > PPG Questions? See the PPG Frequently Asked Questions at
                  > > > http://tinyurl. com/zd8s8Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > > >
                  > >
                  >
                • stevejauch1
                  I m trying to picture exactly what you are saying. Do you have any photos you can post? Steve
                  Message 8 of 17 , Jan 1, 2010
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                    I'm trying to picture exactly what you are saying. Do you have any photos you can post?

                    Steve

                    --- In ppgbiglist@yahoogroups.com, "soarzion" <windrider_sail@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > I use the butterfly layout. You lay the wing out flat. Then pull the center up about 2 feet. so you now have a horseshoe layout. Now bunch up trailing edge at the center of the wing to the leading edge. Now it will come up center first with the wing tips opening after. I learned this lay out from the trike master Chad Bastian.
                    > ,
                    > --- In ppgbiglist@yahoogroups.com, "Roddy" <roddydoodah@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > I have heard people say trikes are less likely to rock due to choppy wind. I have also heard people say trikes are MORE likely to rock due to wind. My trikebuggy is heavy in the wing.
                    > >
                    > > Who is right?
                    > >
                    > > Also I realize that my trike is very heavy in the wing and I have a rather long takeoff run. Since I almost always fly in little or no wind, the wing often comes up squirrelly. Any thoughts for how to lay out the wing to minimize that?
                    > >
                    >
                  • Brent Cam
                    Hi Steve It s quite easy to do, fully open out and lay your glider down, with the upper surface of the wing on the ground, with the trailing edge facing
                    Message 9 of 17 , Jan 1, 2010
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                      Hi Steve
                      It's quite easy to do, fully open out and lay your glider down, with the upper surface of the wing on the ground, with the trailing edge facing towards the trike, similar to a full wall but laying on the ground, now walk around to the centre cell of the leading edge, you should be facing the trike with the wing between you and the trike, now pick up the centre cell at the nose section and walk backwards a few steps while holding the nose, this will pull and slide the entire centre section of the wing away from the trike as action this will now make the wing into a horse shoe shape, now let go of the nose and if you want you can also walk out to each of the tips and pull on the outside of the tips sliding them both forward towards the trike to increase the shape of the horse shoe effect, (the wing is still flat on the ground). 'ensure you keep all the lines nice and clear of any snags'. Now walk back to the centre cell of the wing, again at the nose section, you should be facing the trike while in the centre, now reach over and start to bunch the wing up by pulling the canopy back into it's self at the center, so that the trailing edge slides back and is stacked under at the centre cell, the wing at the center should now be stacked up on it's self with the nose of the center cell to the top, So if you where to look down over the entire wing (while standing up) it should now look like a big butterfly with all the lines going towards the trike, the effect is that the bunching up of the wing in the centre also helps to stop the wing from being blown about by the prop blast and allows for the centre of the wing to fill with air and pop up before the tips fill and start to kite.
                      With the wing laid out in this way, the other part of the trick is to ensure that the center A' lines are kept at full stretch when your starting you launch, in other words ... Don't have any slack centre A lines or trying to snatch the wing up off the ground while starting to kite the wing, but rather ensure you keep the centre A lines tight, this also helps with controlling the wing and keeping it centered while it kites up through the prop blast, I hope this helps with your forward launches. Remember to keep ya knees in the breeze, fly far, land safe and always smile lots.
                      Cheers Brent C



                      --- In ppgbiglist@yahoogroups.com, "stevejauch1" <hcuaj59@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > I'm trying to picture exactly what you are saying. Do you have any photos you can post?
                      >
                      > Steve
                      >
                      > --- In ppgbiglist@yahoogroups.com, "soarzion" <windrider_sail@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > I use the butterfly layout. You lay the wing out flat. Then pull the center up about 2 feet. so you now have a horseshoe layout. Now bunch up trailing edge at the center of the wing to the leading edge. Now it will come up center first with the wing tips opening after. I learned this lay out from the trike master Chad Bastian.
                      > > ,
                      > > --- In ppgbiglist@yahoogroups.com, "Roddy" <roddydoodah@> wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > I have heard people say trikes are less likely to rock due to choppy wind. I have also heard people say trikes are MORE likely to rock due to wind. My trikebuggy is heavy in the wing.
                      > > >
                      > > > Who is right?
                      > > >
                      > > > Also I realize that my trike is very heavy in the wing and I have a rather long takeoff run. Since I almost always fly in little or no wind, the wing often comes up squirrelly. Any thoughts for how to lay out the wing to minimize that?
                      > > >
                      > >
                      >
                    • Robert Archer
                      Terry,   John is 100% correct. I spent many, many hours kiting my wing, in all different configurations and wind conditions. John is a tough, hard instructor.
                      Message 10 of 17 , Jan 1, 2010
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                        Terry,

                          John is 100% correct. I spent many, many hours kiting my wing, in all different configurations and wind conditions. John is a tough, hard instructor. I call him the "Training Nazi", but it all pays off. I thank him for all of his patience and efforts to train me. I am very proud to have had him as an instructor. With or without holding on to the A's, there is NO better experience than to "Fly The Wing".

                        Robert




                        ________________________________
                        From: John <captcaptcapt@...>
                        To: ppgbiglist@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Fri, January 1, 2010 9:40:51 AM
                        Subject: [ppgbiglist] Re: Wind and trikes questions

                         
                        Terry
                        Robert is actually one of my students and he can tell you he spent many days pulling not only the A's but B's C's D's as I require all of my students to learn multiple ways of controlling the glider including no hands before they attempt their first flight.

                        --- In ppgbiglist@yahoogro ups.com, "tllutke52" <tllutke52@. ..> wrote:
                        >
                        > Robert;
                        > I'm starting to train ppg trike without A'assist again, for many students there is something useful, and even logical about tugging the A's with their hands.
                        >
                        > TerryL
                        >
                        > --- In ppgbiglist@yahoogro ups.com, Robert Archer <blackjack2359@ > wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Grego,
                        > >
                        > >   I also use the A-assist on my Skycruiser, and like you said "Stupid Proof". Works terrific! Leon Wacker has designed his Skycruiser to use different A-assist for different wings, as not all risers are the same. They sure do take the worry out of the equation as far as holding those A's.
                        > >
                        > > Robert
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > ____________ _________ _________ __
                        > > From: Greg <g2@>
                        > > To: ppgbiglist@yahoogro ups.com
                        > > Sent: Fri, January 1, 2010 12:37:01 AM
                        > > Subject: RE: [ppgbiglist] Re: Wind and trikes questions
                        > >
                        > >  
                        > > I use an "A" assist and it is stupid proof. You just and power and the wing
                        > > comes up perfectly. No holing the A's at all. What was said about the motor
                        > > angle is correct. My motor on my flash trike is angled up so the blast blows
                        > > over it right at first.
                        > >
                        > > Grego
                        > >
                        > > -----Original Message-----
                        > > From: ppgbiglist@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:ppgbiglist@ yahoogro ups.com] On
                        > > Behalf Of Beery
                        > > Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 7:26 PM
                        > > To: ppgbiglist@yahoogro ups.com
                        > > Subject: [ppgbiglist] Re: Wind and trikes questions
                        > >
                        > > Roddy,
                        > >
                        > > I don't know what wing you have, but some wings don't pull up as easily as
                        > > others. I've seen some brands that have wing tips that pull up fast and
                        > > their centers collapse in and takes a bit of air movement to fill the
                        > > center. Other wings, they seem to have no problems.
                        > >
                        > > Squirrelly wings can be due to the type of wing, how you are laying it out,
                        > > or even simple things like perhaps a line catching on the cage or the
                        > > ground.
                        > >
                        > > Wat you may want to do is have someone film a few of your launches so
                        > > individuals can critique what you are doing if that is possible.
                        > >
                        > > If you can get some video, then a much better assessment to your situation
                        > > can be made.
                        > >
                        > > Beery
                        > >
                        > > --- In ppgbiglist@yahoogro ups.com, "Roddy" <roddydoodah@ ...> wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > I have heard people say trikes are less likely to rock due to choppy wind.
                        > > I have also heard people say trikes are MORE likely to rock due to wind. My
                        > > trikebuggy is heavy in the wing.
                        > > >
                        > > > Who is right?
                        > > >
                        > > > Also I realize that my trike is very heavy in the wing and I have a rather
                        > > long takeoff run. Since I almost always fly in little or no wind, the wing
                        > > often comes up squirrelly. Any thoughts for how to lay out the wing to
                        > > minimize that?
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > > ------------ --------- --------- ------
                        > >
                        > > PPG Questions? See the PPG Frequently Asked Questions at
                        > > http://tinyurl. com/zd8s8Yahoo! Groups Links
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > >
                        >







                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • stevejauch1
                        Thanks Brent. I don t normally have any problems, but there have been a few times with NO wind that it has taken twice to get up. I will try this the next
                        Message 11 of 17 , Jan 1, 2010
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                          Thanks Brent. I don't normally have any problems, but there have been a few times with NO wind that it has taken twice to get up. I will try this the next time.

                          Steve

                          --- In ppgbiglist@yahoogroups.com, "Brent Cam" <brentcam58@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Hi Steve
                          > It's quite easy to do, fully open out and lay your glider down, with the upper surface of the wing on the ground, with the trailing edge facing towards the trike, similar to a full wall but laying on the ground, now walk around to the centre cell of the leading edge, you should be facing the trike with the wing between you and the trike, now pick up the centre cell at the nose section and walk backwards a few steps while holding the nose, this will pull and slide the entire centre section of the wing away from the trike as action this will now make the wing into a horse shoe shape, now let go of the nose and if you want you can also walk out to each of the tips and pull on the outside of the tips sliding them both forward towards the trike to increase the shape of the horse shoe effect, (the wing is still flat on the ground). 'ensure you keep all the lines nice and clear of any snags'. Now walk back to the centre cell of the wing, again at the nose section, you should be facing the trike while in the centre, now reach over and start to bunch the wing up by pulling the canopy back into it's self at the center, so that the trailing edge slides back and is stacked under at the centre cell, the wing at the center should now be stacked up on it's self with the nose of the center cell to the top, So if you where to look down over the entire wing (while standing up) it should now look like a big butterfly with all the lines going towards the trike, the effect is that the bunching up of the wing in the centre also helps to stop the wing from being blown about by the prop blast and allows for the centre of the wing to fill with air and pop up before the tips fill and start to kite.
                          > With the wing laid out in this way, the other part of the trick is to ensure that the center A' lines are kept at full stretch when your starting you launch, in other words ... Don't have any slack centre A lines or trying to snatch the wing up off the ground while starting to kite the wing, but rather ensure you keep the centre A lines tight, this also helps with controlling the wing and keeping it centered while it kites up through the prop blast, I hope this helps with your forward launches. Remember to keep ya knees in the breeze, fly far, land safe and always smile lots.
                          > Cheers Brent C
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