Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [powersdr-iq] Re: basic audio routing in PDSR-IQ 1.12.20

Expand Messages
  • Mike Kemp
    Hi Christos It seems a shame to throw out all the audio interfaces I have (since I develop audio software and hardware products and do pro recording I have a
    Message 1 of 6 , Jun 2, 2009
    • 0 Attachment
      Hi Christos
       
      It seems a shame to throw out all the audio interfaces I have (since I develop audio software and hardware products and do pro recording I have a good selection).
       
      All these devices expose all their audio ports with standard ASIO drivers. Is PSDR open source? Maybe I could look at writing some sort of interface to allow any audio interface to connect to PSDR? I am not sure I am familiar with the development environment of PSDR, I mostly use C++. It seems that all PSDR lacks is a simple selection of the 4 audio connections needed: audio into PSDR, IQ from PSDR to hardware TX, hardware IQ RX to PSDR, and audio out of PSDR. OTOH it may be too big a task given other commitments, but at least it would be worth looking at... What do you think?
       
      Thanks, Mike CT1JZQ

      2009/5/31 Christos Nikolaou <sv1eia@...>


      Hi Mike,

      Although these are decent audio cards, they are not in the supported list.
      In the supported list, cards are being utilized with all their ports whereas in 'unsupported' that is not so easy or not-possible at all.

      And talking in this class of audio cards, if you had the FA-66 your life would be much easier with PSDR.

      73,
      Christos SV1EIA



      --- In powersdr-iq@yahoogroups.com, "ct1jzq" <ct1jzq@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hi, I've spent a lot of time on this, with no real luck, so I wonder if someone has the obvious solution that I'm missing.
      >
      > I have been trying to get my Softrock TXRX6.3 up and running, using a choice of high spec digital audio FireWire interfaces I have available, all 192k capable. I also have a built-in soundmax card limited to 48k on my XP machine.
      >
      > I started off trying to route as follows
      >
      > mic->soundmax->PSDR
      > PSDR->pro-audio out(96k)->TXRX
      > TXRX->pro-audio in(96k)->PSDR
      > PSDR->soundmax->speakers
      >
      > I got this almost to work using the proaudio ASIO driver, though PSDR only seems to see channels 1+2 of the proaudio i/o. I used VAC to send the audio to the soundmax, and to pick up the mic and route it back to PSDR.
      >
      > This almost works, except I noticed that I had a lot of noise on the panadapter clustered around the DC, with a bandwidth matching the decoded audio bandwidth. I discovered this is because PSDR is outputting decoded audio to the pro-audio channels 1+2 which are therefore going to the TXRX and generating the noise. With very quiet bands it also generates peculiar echoes as it goes round and round the system.
      >
      > I am not confident that the mic audio is getting coded properly, as it sounds like there is base band audio on the drive to the TXRX when I put PSDR into transmit (I expected to hear SSB offset by the IF).
      >
      > The other problem with using VAC is that the decoded audio is very delayed (~1 sec), despite reasonably short (default length) buffers.
      >
      > I couldn't find a way to stop PSDR sending decoded audio back to the TXRX.
      >
      > I decided to try using all i/o on the pro-audio device as follows:
      >
      > mic->pro-audio mic in(96k->PSDR
      > PSDR->pro-audio out 1+2 (96k)->TXRX
      > TXRX->pro-audio in(96k)->PSDR
      > PSDR->pro-audio out 9+10 (96k)->speakers
      >
      > I can still only get PSDR to use one pair of inputs and outputs from the audio card. The only audio out goes back to the TXRX. I can't pick up the mic input at all. For receiver only use that's okay of course and this gives much lower delay as expected. (But I want to get TX to work of course).
      >
      > It seems a fairly basic requirement to route either of the two setups above, does anyone know how can I make PSDR do this?
      >
      > Many thanks, Mike CT1JZQ.
      >
      > These are the pro-audio boxes I tried, both pretty much the same. They come with fully up to date ASIO drivers of course, and all channels are available to my pro-audio software:
      > 1. Focusrite Saffire FireWire pro-audio interface.
      > 2. RME Fireface800 FireWire pro-audio interface.
      >


    • Christos Nikolaou
      Hi Mike, PSDR is using the PortAudio library which is pretty adequate IMHO. The problem lies in the many vendors and variations of drivers even though they are
      Message 2 of 6 , Jun 2, 2009
      • 0 Attachment
        Hi Mike,

        PSDR is using the PortAudio library which is pretty adequate IMHO.
        The problem lies in the many vendors and variations of drivers even though they are ASIO. Multi/Single Channel, Multi/Single Streaming, audio enhancements, Mixing applets etc are all different from one vendor to another.
        So I guess that is why Flex just took a couple of the best and put them in the supported list. Otherwise it had to re-iterate again and again through all audio vendors. You understand that this is quite time and resource consuming.
        Beyond that, there is MicroSoft, whereas with the XP to Vista transition changed so many things, and now with W7 it will change again...
        With all these in mind, and knowing that our hobby is not pure audio, I think that Flex did a decent job up to now and also did the proper move to integrate the ADC and DAC (after all this is what we need) into the rig.
        HPSDR did that long time ago.


        If you still want to endeavour into that, you can dig into

        -> http://kc.flex-radio.com/KnowledgebaseCategory66.aspx

        whereas you can have a look at PSDR development but bear in mind that you will be alone to this. It uses VS2003 and nowadays an undergoing effort is being done to port it to VS2008.

        73,
        Christos SV1EIA




        --- In powersdr-iq@yahoogroups.com, Mike Kemp <ct1jzq@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi Christos
        >
        > It seems a shame to throw out all the audio interfaces I have (since I
        > develop audio software and hardware products and do pro recording I have a
        > good selection).
        >
        > All these devices expose all their audio ports with standard ASIO drivers.
        > Is PSDR open source? Maybe I could look at writing some sort of interface to
        > allow any audio interface to connect to PSDR? I am not sure I am familiar
        > with the development environment of PSDR, I mostly use C++. It seems that
        > all PSDR lacks is a simple selection of the 4 audio connections needed:
        > audio into PSDR, IQ from PSDR to hardware TX, hardware IQ RX to PSDR, and
        > audio out of PSDR. OTOH it may be too big a task given other commitments,
        > but at least it would be worth looking at... What do you think?
        >
        > Thanks, Mike CT1JZQ
        >
        > 2009/5/31 Christos Nikolaou <sv1eia@...>
        >
        > >
        > >
        > > Hi Mike,
        > >
        > > Although these are decent audio cards, they are not in the supported list.
        > > In the supported list, cards are being utilized with all their ports
        > > whereas in 'unsupported' that is not so easy or not-possible at all.
        > >
        > > And talking in this class of audio cards, if you had the FA-66 your life
        > > would be much easier with PSDR.
        > >
        > > 73,
        > > Christos SV1EIA
        > >
        > > --- In powersdr-iq@yahoogroups.com <powersdr-iq%40yahoogroups.com>,
        > > "ct1jzq" <ct1jzq@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Hi, I've spent a lot of time on this, with no real luck, so I wonder if
        > > someone has the obvious solution that I'm missing.
        > > >
        > > > I have been trying to get my Softrock TXRX6.3 up and running, using a
        > > choice of high spec digital audio FireWire interfaces I have available, all
        > > 192k capable. I also have a built-in soundmax card limited to 48k on my XP
        > > machine.
        > > >
        > > > I started off trying to route as follows
        > > >
        > > > mic->soundmax->PSDR
        > > > PSDR->pro-audio out(96k)->TXRX
        > > > TXRX->pro-audio in(96k)->PSDR
        > > > PSDR->soundmax->speakers
        > > >
        > > > I got this almost to work using the proaudio ASIO driver, though PSDR
        > > only seems to see channels 1+2 of the proaudio i/o. I used VAC to send the
        > > audio to the soundmax, and to pick up the mic and route it back to PSDR.
        > > >
        > > > This almost works, except I noticed that I had a lot of noise on the
        > > panadapter clustered around the DC, with a bandwidth matching the decoded
        > > audio bandwidth. I discovered this is because PSDR is outputting decoded
        > > audio to the pro-audio channels 1+2 which are therefore going to the TXRX
        > > and generating the noise. With very quiet bands it also generates peculiar
        > > echoes as it goes round and round the system.
        > > >
        > > > I am not confident that the mic audio is getting coded properly, as it
        > > sounds like there is base band audio on the drive to the TXRX when I put
        > > PSDR into transmit (I expected to hear SSB offset by the IF).
        > > >
        > > > The other problem with using VAC is that the decoded audio is very
        > > delayed (~1 sec), despite reasonably short (default length) buffers.
        > > >
        > > > I couldn't find a way to stop PSDR sending decoded audio back to the
        > > TXRX.
        > > >
        > > > I decided to try using all i/o on the pro-audio device as follows:
        > > >
        > > > mic->pro-audio mic in(96k->PSDR
        > > > PSDR->pro-audio out 1+2 (96k)->TXRX
        > > > TXRX->pro-audio in(96k)->PSDR
        > > > PSDR->pro-audio out 9+10 (96k)->speakers
        > > >
        > > > I can still only get PSDR to use one pair of inputs and outputs from the
        > > audio card. The only audio out goes back to the TXRX. I can't pick up the
        > > mic input at all. For receiver only use that's okay of course and this gives
        > > much lower delay as expected. (But I want to get TX to work of course).
        > > >
        > > > It seems a fairly basic requirement to route either of the two setups
        > > above, does anyone know how can I make PSDR do this?
        > > >
        > > > Many thanks, Mike CT1JZQ.
        > > >
        > > > These are the pro-audio boxes I tried, both pretty much the same. They
        > > come with fully up to date ASIO drivers of course, and all channels are
        > > available to my pro-audio software:
        > > > 1. Focusrite Saffire FireWire pro-audio interface.
        > > > 2. RME Fireface800 FireWire pro-audio interface.
        > > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
      • w5xz@att.net
        hi christos great work you have done. when you discuss the supported list of audio cards, are you talking about the powerSDR listed sound cards? or, is there
        Message 3 of 6 , Jun 5, 2009
        • 0 Attachment
          hi christos

          great work you have done.

          when you discuss the 'supported list' of audio cards, are
          you talking about the powerSDR listed sound cards?

          or, is there another list?

          i was thinking of useing the e mu 1212, since it has the
          same chip as the expensive Janus HPDSR card. the specs
          look pretty good. but, its not on the flex 'supported list'...

          confused beginner, w5xz, dan, in texas.

          --- In powersdr-iq@yahoogroups.com, "Christos Nikolaou" <sv1eia@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hi Mike,
          >
          > Although these are decent audio cards, they are not in the supported list.
          > In the supported list, cards are being utilized with all their ports whereas in 'unsupported' that is not so easy or not-possible at all.
          >
          > And talking in this class of audio cards, if you had the FA-66 your life would be much easier with PSDR.
          >
          > 73,
          > Christos SV1EIA
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > --- In powersdr-iq@yahoogroups.com, "ct1jzq" <ct1jzq@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Hi, I've spent a lot of time on this, with no real luck, so I wonder if someone has the obvious solution that I'm missing.
          > >
          > > I have been trying to get my Softrock TXRX6.3 up and running, using a choice of high spec digital audio FireWire interfaces I have available, all 192k capable. I also have a built-in soundmax card limited to 48k on my XP machine.
          > >
          > > I started off trying to route as follows
          > >
          > > mic->soundmax->PSDR
          > > PSDR->pro-audio out(96k)->TXRX
          > > TXRX->pro-audio in(96k)->PSDR
          > > PSDR->soundmax->speakers
          > >
          > > I got this almost to work using the proaudio ASIO driver, though PSDR only seems to see channels 1+2 of the proaudio i/o. I used VAC to send the audio to the soundmax, and to pick up the mic and route it back to PSDR.
          > >
          > > This almost works, except I noticed that I had a lot of noise on the panadapter clustered around the DC, with a bandwidth matching the decoded audio bandwidth. I discovered this is because PSDR is outputting decoded audio to the pro-audio channels 1+2 which are therefore going to the TXRX and generating the noise. With very quiet bands it also generates peculiar echoes as it goes round and round the system.
          > >
          > > I am not confident that the mic audio is getting coded properly, as it sounds like there is base band audio on the drive to the TXRX when I put PSDR into transmit (I expected to hear SSB offset by the IF).
          > >
          > > The other problem with using VAC is that the decoded audio is very delayed (~1 sec), despite reasonably short (default length) buffers.
          > >
          > > I couldn't find a way to stop PSDR sending decoded audio back to the TXRX.
          > >
          > > I decided to try using all i/o on the pro-audio device as follows:
          > >
          > > mic->pro-audio mic in(96k->PSDR
          > > PSDR->pro-audio out 1+2 (96k)->TXRX
          > > TXRX->pro-audio in(96k)->PSDR
          > > PSDR->pro-audio out 9+10 (96k)->speakers
          > >
          > > I can still only get PSDR to use one pair of inputs and outputs from the audio card. The only audio out goes back to the TXRX. I can't pick up the mic input at all. For receiver only use that's okay of course and this gives much lower delay as expected. (But I want to get TX to work of course).
          > >
          > > It seems a fairly basic requirement to route either of the two setups above, does anyone know how can I make PSDR do this?
          > >
          > > Many thanks, Mike CT1JZQ.
          > >
          > > These are the pro-audio boxes I tried, both pretty much the same. They come with fully up to date ASIO drivers of course, and all channels are available to my pro-audio software:
          > > 1. Focusrite Saffire FireWire pro-audio interface.
          > > 2. RME Fireface800 FireWire pro-audio interface.
          > >
          >
        • Christos Nikolaou
          Hi Dan, That was a card that I wanted to test myself for the same reasons you mention. Yes I refer to that list of audio cards in PowerSDR. This card has one
          Message 4 of 6 , Jun 6, 2009
          • 0 Attachment
            Hi Dan,

            That was a card that I wanted to test myself for the same reasons you mention.
            Yes I refer to that list of audio cards in PowerSDR.

            This card has one analog stereo input (with the AK5394A) and one analog stereo output and these have to be configured in the primary audio input/output, thus you need the VAC button to be enabled and get the microphone and speaker from your integrated pc audio card which will be configured in the VAC setup page as input/output.
            This is the method to use all the 'unsupported' one stereo in/one stereo out cards for Rx/Tx.

            73,
            Christos SV1EIA




            --- In powersdr-iq@yahoogroups.com, "w5xz@..." <w5xz@...> wrote:
            >
            > hi christos
            >
            > great work you have done.
            >
            > when you discuss the 'supported list' of audio cards, are
            > you talking about the powerSDR listed sound cards?
            >
            > or, is there another list?
            >
            > i was thinking of useing the e mu 1212, since it has the
            > same chip as the expensive Janus HPDSR card. the specs
            > look pretty good. but, its not on the flex 'supported list'...
            >
            > confused beginner, w5xz, dan, in texas.
            >
            > --- In powersdr-iq@yahoogroups.com, "Christos Nikolaou" <sv1eia@> wrote:
            > >
            > > Hi Mike,
            > >
            > > Although these are decent audio cards, they are not in the supported list.
            > > In the supported list, cards are being utilized with all their ports whereas in 'unsupported' that is not so easy or not-possible at all.
            > >
            > > And talking in this class of audio cards, if you had the FA-66 your life would be much easier with PSDR.
            > >
            > > 73,
            > > Christos SV1EIA
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > --- In powersdr-iq@yahoogroups.com, "ct1jzq" <ct1jzq@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > Hi, I've spent a lot of time on this, with no real luck, so I wonder if someone has the obvious solution that I'm missing.
            > > >
            > > > I have been trying to get my Softrock TXRX6.3 up and running, using a choice of high spec digital audio FireWire interfaces I have available, all 192k capable. I also have a built-in soundmax card limited to 48k on my XP machine.
            > > >
            > > > I started off trying to route as follows
            > > >
            > > > mic->soundmax->PSDR
            > > > PSDR->pro-audio out(96k)->TXRX
            > > > TXRX->pro-audio in(96k)->PSDR
            > > > PSDR->soundmax->speakers
            > > >
            > > > I got this almost to work using the proaudio ASIO driver, though PSDR only seems to see channels 1+2 of the proaudio i/o. I used VAC to send the audio to the soundmax, and to pick up the mic and route it back to PSDR.
            > > >
            > > > This almost works, except I noticed that I had a lot of noise on the panadapter clustered around the DC, with a bandwidth matching the decoded audio bandwidth. I discovered this is because PSDR is outputting decoded audio to the pro-audio channels 1+2 which are therefore going to the TXRX and generating the noise. With very quiet bands it also generates peculiar echoes as it goes round and round the system.
            > > >
            > > > I am not confident that the mic audio is getting coded properly, as it sounds like there is base band audio on the drive to the TXRX when I put PSDR into transmit (I expected to hear SSB offset by the IF).
            > > >
            > > > The other problem with using VAC is that the decoded audio is very delayed (~1 sec), despite reasonably short (default length) buffers.
            > > >
            > > > I couldn't find a way to stop PSDR sending decoded audio back to the TXRX.
            > > >
            > > > I decided to try using all i/o on the pro-audio device as follows:
            > > >
            > > > mic->pro-audio mic in(96k->PSDR
            > > > PSDR->pro-audio out 1+2 (96k)->TXRX
            > > > TXRX->pro-audio in(96k)->PSDR
            > > > PSDR->pro-audio out 9+10 (96k)->speakers
            > > >
            > > > I can still only get PSDR to use one pair of inputs and outputs from the audio card. The only audio out goes back to the TXRX. I can't pick up the mic input at all. For receiver only use that's okay of course and this gives much lower delay as expected. (But I want to get TX to work of course).
            > > >
            > > > It seems a fairly basic requirement to route either of the two setups above, does anyone know how can I make PSDR do this?
            > > >
            > > > Many thanks, Mike CT1JZQ.
            > > >
            > > > These are the pro-audio boxes I tried, both pretty much the same. They come with fully up to date ASIO drivers of course, and all channels are available to my pro-audio software:
            > > > 1. Focusrite Saffire FireWire pro-audio interface.
            > > > 2. RME Fireface800 FireWire pro-audio interface.
            > > >
            > >
            >
          Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.