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Re: Will there be future version of power-pro?

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  • brucexs
    No, this was discussed already some years ago and I gave my reasons. You probably find them if you search, but in summary the source is in no shape to be made
    Message 1 of 25 , Apr 24 1:01 PM
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      No, this was discussed already some years ago and I gave my reasons. You probably find them if you search, but in summary the source is in no shape to be made open source.


      --- In power-pro@yahoogroups.com, "tedbaxer" <tedbaxer@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > > Sorry, but no.
      > >
      > > In fact, there have been no substantive updates for several years. I have corrected a few issues related to Win 7, and with help of others updated a dll or two to 64 bit to work in 64 bit windows, but I don't plan to do any more.
      > >
      > > PowerPro started as a 16 bit win 3.1 program called Stiletto almost 20 years ago! But it's now at the end of it's evolution.
      >
      > Is there any chance, that you make PP open source? Many people worked very hard and long to develope own scripts. And if one day a Windows-version is in the world and PP dont work with it, than all the work is lost.
      >
      > What do you think, Bruce? Open source oder not open source?
      >
      > (sorry, very bad english)
      >
    • phkiefer
      Just received an e-mail from someone who must have read here about my partial move from PPro to Autohotkey, asking me to share some of my new AHK code. This
      Message 2 of 25 , Jun 21, 2012
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        Just received an e-mail from someone who must have read here about my partial move from PPro to Autohotkey, asking me to share some of my new AHK code. This made me consider whether PowerPro is now truly doomed.

        To me this is tragic as it's always done everything it needed to do for me. It was only when I needed more control over hotkeys (running separate code on key / button down and key / button up events) than PPro could offer natively and after running into bugs in the KeyTrap and MouseTrap plugins that I no longer wanted to work around (confounded by their rather unintuitive syntax) that I started looking elsewhere and have since settled on Autohotkey to cover PPro's few shortcomings.

        I have since been amazed at how much more convenient and to the point PowerPro is compared to AHK, which has a user base at least 50 times that of PPro. In some respects PPro is even more up to date, even though there haven't been any major updates for years. For example, AHK still can't set the volume on post-XP Windows natively. Your work really stands out, Bruce! To think that you developed this powerhouse all on your own truly boggles the mind. :-)

        Consequently, I have ported to AHK only what was absolutely necessary and there is now much chatter going back an forth between AHK and PPro via COPYDATA messages / the PPCOMServer plugin. The transition was a painful process and I dread the day when more functions of PPro may become outdated.

        It's too bad that you consider the code too messy to allow anyone else to tend it, but of course the choice is yours. If the user base was more substantial there would probably have been a much greater outcry, but as it is it seems PPro will die a quiet and slow death... Sad, but you know best.

        Anyway many thanks for all your hard work. If you ever decide to accept donations again, let me know (just think of your grandchildren... ;-)).

        Phil

        --- In power-pro@yahoogroups.com, "brucexs" <brucexs@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > No, this was discussed already some years ago and I gave my reasons. You probably find them if you search, but in summary the source is in no shape to be made open source.
        >
        >
        > --- In power-pro@yahoogroups.com, "tedbaxer" <tedbaxer@> wrote:
        > >
        > >
        > > > Sorry, but no.
        > > >
        > > > In fact, there have been no substantive updates for several years. I have corrected a few issues related to Win 7, and with help of others updated a dll or two to 64 bit to work in 64 bit windows, but I don't plan to do any more.
        > > >
        > > > PowerPro started as a 16 bit win 3.1 program called Stiletto almost 20 years ago! But it's now at the end of it's evolution.
        > >
        > > Is there any chance, that you make PP open source? Many people worked very hard and long to develope own scripts. And if one day a Windows-version is in the world and PP dont work with it, than all the work is lost.
        > >
        > > What do you think, Bruce? Open source oder not open source?
        > >
        > > (sorry, very bad english)
        > >
        >
      • brucexs
        Thanks for your comments. Here are my thoughts: I think you hit the nail on the head by noting that AHK has many more users. Most of the useful things
        Message 3 of 25 , Jun 21, 2012
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          Thanks for your comments. Here are my thoughts:

          I think you hit the nail on the head by noting that AHK has many more users. Most of the useful things created for PPro in the last few years were done by Entrotopy Reduction through plugins. And the deficiencies you mention could be corrected by plugins. But nobody is interested in writing plugins for software that has such a small user base.

          As I understand where MS is going with Windows 8, PowerPro will continue to work fine as a desktop app. It will never be able to interact with the new Windows interface. That would require a total rewrite. It would also be pointless, as the things PPro does don't make sense in the touch new interface.

          It would take someone many months to understand enough of the PPro code to do something useful with PPro itself. If someone was interested in adding new features, plugins are almost certainly the way to go.

          I was missing access to tray icons and so wrote a plugin to handle that. I'll probably write another plugin to handle desktop icon save and restore, which I sometime miss. I cannot think of any useful, existing functionality that is missing after that. For example, I think the new Windows file dialogs replace would PowerPro did to help in older versions of Windows.

          Thanks again for you positive feedback and thoughtful comments.

          --- In power-pro@yahoogroups.com, "phkiefer" <philippkiefer@...> w
          > Just received an e-mail from someone who must have read here about my partial move from PPro to Autohotkey, asking me to share some of my new AHK code. This made me consider whether PowerPro is now truly doomed.

          >
          > To me this is tragic as it's always done everything it needed to do for me. It was only when I needed more control over hotkeys (running separate code on key / button down and key / button up events) than PPro could offer natively and after running into bugs in the KeyTrap and MouseTrap plugins that I no longer wanted to work around (confounded by their rather unintuitive syntax) that I started looking elsewhere and have since settled on Autohotkey to cover PPro's few shortcomings.
          >
          > I have since been amazed at how much more convenient and to the point PowerPro is compared to AHK, which has a user base at least 50 times that of PPro. In some respects PPro is even more up to date, even though there haven't been any major updates for years. For example, AHK still can't set the volume on post-XP Windows natively. Your work really stands out, Bruce! To think that you developed this powerhouse all on your own truly boggles the mind. :-)
          >
          > Consequently, I have ported to AHK only what was absolutely necessary and there is now much chatter going back an forth between AHK and PPro via COPYDATA messages / the PPCOMServer plugin. The transition was a painful process and I dread the day when more functions of PPro may become outdated.
          >
          > It's too bad that you consider the code too messy to allow anyone else to tend it, but of course the choice is yours. If the user base was more substantial there would probably have been a much greater outcry, but as it is it seems PPro will die a quiet and slow death... Sad, but you know best.
          >
          > Anyway many thanks for all your hard work. If you ever decide to accept donations again, let me know (just think of your grandchildren... ;-)).
          >
          > Phil
          >
          > --- In power-pro@yahoogroups.com, "brucexs" <brucexs@> wrote:
          > >
          > >
          > > No, this was discussed already some years ago and I gave my reasons. You probably find them if you search, but in summary the source is in no shape to be made open source.
          > >
          > >
          > > --- In power-pro@yahoogroups.com, "tedbaxer" <tedbaxer@> wrote:
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > > Sorry, but no.
          > > > >
          > > > > In fact, there have been no substantive updates for several years. I have corrected a few issues related to Win 7, and with help of others updated a dll or two to 64 bit to work in 64 bit windows, but I don't plan to do any more.
          > > > >
          > > > > PowerPro started as a 16 bit win 3.1 program called Stiletto almost 20 years ago! But it's now at the end of it's evolution.
          > > >
          > > > Is there any chance, that you make PP open source? Many people worked very hard and long to develope own scripts. And if one day a Windows-version is in the world and PP dont work with it, than all the work is lost.
          > > >
          > > > What do you think, Bruce? Open source oder not open source?
          > > >
          > > > (sorry, very bad english)
          > > >
          > >
          >
        • quanticworks
          Here s my input, It s mind blowing that Powerpro lives under the shadow for so many years. Instead of getting more users, the number is getting down... So
          Message 4 of 25 , Jun 21, 2012
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            Here's my input,

            It's mind blowing that Powerpro lives under the "shadow" for so many years.
            Instead of getting more users, the number is getting down...
            So many great people in here, and we don't see almost anyone hanging around more.
            Entropy stopped dev work and we never heard anything more from him.
            The always present and helpful Sheri, gone at the same time...
            Bruce, I admire you by your love with powerpro and by being always here to help.
            I wish we would see some of them more often. swozh, mockey and all the others that showed what can be made with powerpro.

            Cheers and a big thank you to you all!

            --- In power-pro@yahoogroups.com, "brucexs" <brucexs@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > Thanks for your comments. Here are my thoughts:
            >
            > I think you hit the nail on the head by noting that AHK has many more users. Most of the useful things created for PPro in the last few years were done by Entrotopy Reduction through plugins. And the deficiencies you mention could be corrected by plugins. But nobody is interested in writing plugins for software that has such a small user base.
            >
            > As I understand where MS is going with Windows 8, PowerPro will continue to work fine as a desktop app. It will never be able to interact with the new Windows interface. That would require a total rewrite. It would also be pointless, as the things PPro does don't make sense in the touch new interface.
            >
            > It would take someone many months to understand enough of the PPro code to do something useful with PPro itself. If someone was interested in adding new features, plugins are almost certainly the way to go.
            >
            > I was missing access to tray icons and so wrote a plugin to handle that. I'll probably write another plugin to handle desktop icon save and restore, which I sometime miss. I cannot think of any useful, existing functionality that is missing after that. For example, I think the new Windows file dialogs replace would PowerPro did to help in older versions of Windows.
            >
            > Thanks again for you positive feedback and thoughtful comments.
            >
            > --- In power-pro@yahoogroups.com, "phkiefer" <philippkiefer@> w
            > > Just received an e-mail from someone who must have read here about my partial move from PPro to Autohotkey, asking me to share some of my new AHK code. This made me consider whether PowerPro is now truly doomed.
            >
            > >
            > > To me this is tragic as it's always done everything it needed to do for me. It was only when I needed more control over hotkeys (running separate code on key / button down and key / button up events) than PPro could offer natively and after running into bugs in the KeyTrap and MouseTrap plugins that I no longer wanted to work around (confounded by their rather unintuitive syntax) that I started looking elsewhere and have since settled on Autohotkey to cover PPro's few shortcomings.
            > >
            > > I have since been amazed at how much more convenient and to the point PowerPro is compared to AHK, which has a user base at least 50 times that of PPro. In some respects PPro is even more up to date, even though there haven't been any major updates for years. For example, AHK still can't set the volume on post-XP Windows natively. Your work really stands out, Bruce! To think that you developed this powerhouse all on your own truly boggles the mind. :-)
            > >
            > > Consequently, I have ported to AHK only what was absolutely necessary and there is now much chatter going back an forth between AHK and PPro via COPYDATA messages / the PPCOMServer plugin. The transition was a painful process and I dread the day when more functions of PPro may become outdated.
            > >
            > > It's too bad that you consider the code too messy to allow anyone else to tend it, but of course the choice is yours. If the user base was more substantial there would probably have been a much greater outcry, but as it is it seems PPro will die a quiet and slow death... Sad, but you know best.
            > >
            > > Anyway many thanks for all your hard work. If you ever decide to accept donations again, let me know (just think of your grandchildren... ;-)).
            > >
            > > Phil
            > >
            > > --- In power-pro@yahoogroups.com, "brucexs" <brucexs@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > No, this was discussed already some years ago and I gave my reasons. You probably find them if you search, but in summary the source is in no shape to be made open source.
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > --- In power-pro@yahoogroups.com, "tedbaxer" <tedbaxer@> wrote:
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > > Sorry, but no.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > In fact, there have been no substantive updates for several years. I have corrected a few issues related to Win 7, and with help of others updated a dll or two to 64 bit to work in 64 bit windows, but I don't plan to do any more.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > PowerPro started as a 16 bit win 3.1 program called Stiletto almost 20 years ago! But it's now at the end of it's evolution.
            > > > >
            > > > > Is there any chance, that you make PP open source? Many people worked very hard and long to develope own scripts. And if one day a Windows-version is in the world and PP dont work with it, than all the work is lost.
            > > > >
            > > > > What do you think, Bruce? Open source oder not open source?
            > > > >
            > > > > (sorry, very bad english)
            > > > >
            > > >
            > >
            >
          • brucexs
            swozh (Sean) still present in spirit in the Tray icon plugin --- it is based on ideas in his AHK script!
            Message 5 of 25 , Jun 22, 2012
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              swozh (Sean) still present in spirit in the Tray icon plugin --- it is based on ideas in his AHK script!

              --- In power-pro@yahoogroups.com, "quanticworks" <quanticworks@...> wrote:
              >
              > Here's my input,
              >
              > It's mind blowing that Powerpro lives under the "shadow" for so many years.
              > Instead of getting more users, the number is getting down...
              > So many great people in here, and we don't see almost anyone hanging around more.
              > Entropy stopped dev work and we never heard anything more from him.
              > The always present and helpful Sheri, gone at the same time...
              > Bruce, I admire you by your love with powerpro and by being always here to help.
              > I wish we would see some of them more often. swozh, mockey and all the others that showed what can be made with powerpro.
              >
              > Cheers and a big thank you to you all!
              >
              > --- In power-pro@yahoogroups.com, "brucexs" <brucexs@> wrote:
              > >
              > >
              > > Thanks for your comments. Here are my thoughts:
              > >
              > > I think you hit the nail on the head by noting that AHK has many more users. Most of the useful things created for PPro in the last few years were done by Entrotopy Reduction through plugins. And the deficiencies you mention could be corrected by plugins. But nobody is interested in writing plugins for software that has such a small user base.
              > >
              > > As I understand where MS is going with Windows 8, PowerPro will continue to work fine as a desktop app. It will never be able to interact with the new Windows interface. That would require a total rewrite. It would also be pointless, as the things PPro does don't make sense in the touch new interface.
              > >
              > > It would take someone many months to understand enough of the PPro code to do something useful with PPro itself. If someone was interested in adding new features, plugins are almost certainly the way to go.
              > >
              > > I was missing access to tray icons and so wrote a plugin to handle that. I'll probably write another plugin to handle desktop icon save and restore, which I sometime miss. I cannot think of any useful, existing functionality that is missing after that. For example, I think the new Windows file dialogs replace would PowerPro did to help in older versions of Windows.
              > >
              > > Thanks again for you positive feedback and thoughtful comments.
              > >
              > > --- In power-pro@yahoogroups.com, "phkiefer" <philippkiefer@> w
              > > > Just received an e-mail from someone who must have read here about my partial move from PPro to Autohotkey, asking me to share some of my new AHK code. This made me consider whether PowerPro is now truly doomed.
              > >
              > > >
              > > > To me this is tragic as it's always done everything it needed to do for me. It was only when I needed more control over hotkeys (running separate code on key / button down and key / button up events) than PPro could offer natively and after running into bugs in the KeyTrap and MouseTrap plugins that I no longer wanted to work around (confounded by their rather unintuitive syntax) that I started looking elsewhere and have since settled on Autohotkey to cover PPro's few shortcomings.
              > > >
              > > > I have since been amazed at how much more convenient and to the point PowerPro is compared to AHK, which has a user base at least 50 times that of PPro. In some respects PPro is even more up to date, even though there haven't been any major updates for years. For example, AHK still can't set the volume on post-XP Windows natively. Your work really stands out, Bruce! To think that you developed this powerhouse all on your own truly boggles the mind. :-)
              > > >
              > > > Consequently, I have ported to AHK only what was absolutely necessary and there is now much chatter going back an forth between AHK and PPro via COPYDATA messages / the PPCOMServer plugin. The transition was a painful process and I dread the day when more functions of PPro may become outdated.
              > > >
              > > > It's too bad that you consider the code too messy to allow anyone else to tend it, but of course the choice is yours. If the user base was more substantial there would probably have been a much greater outcry, but as it is it seems PPro will die a quiet and slow death... Sad, but you know best.
              > > >
              > > > Anyway many thanks for all your hard work. If you ever decide to accept donations again, let me know (just think of your grandchildren... ;-)).
              > > >
              > > > Phil
              > > >
              > > > --- In power-pro@yahoogroups.com, "brucexs" <brucexs@> wrote:
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > > No, this was discussed already some years ago and I gave my reasons. You probably find them if you search, but in summary the source is in no shape to be made open source.
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > > --- In power-pro@yahoogroups.com, "tedbaxer" <tedbaxer@> wrote:
              > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > > > > Sorry, but no.
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > In fact, there have been no substantive updates for several years. I have corrected a few issues related to Win 7, and with help of others updated a dll or two to 64 bit to work in 64 bit windows, but I don't plan to do any more.
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > PowerPro started as a 16 bit win 3.1 program called Stiletto almost 20 years ago! But it's now at the end of it's evolution.
              > > > > >
              > > > > > Is there any chance, that you make PP open source? Many people worked very hard and long to develope own scripts. And if one day a Windows-version is in the world and PP dont work with it, than all the work is lost.
              > > > > >
              > > > > > What do you think, Bruce? Open source oder not open source?
              > > > > >
              > > > > > (sorry, very bad english)
              > > > > >
              > > > >
              > > >
              > >
              >
            • brother.gabriel
              I just moved to a Windows7 Pro 64bit machine. I, too, have thought about replacing Powerpro with Autohotkey - partially because Autohotkey is still being
              Message 6 of 25 , Jun 22, 2012
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                I just moved to a Windows7 Pro 64bit machine. I, too, have thought about replacing Powerpro with Autohotkey - partially because Autohotkey is still being developed, has thousands of scripts and users, and partly because you can terminate an individual script process instead of always terminating the whole powerpro process.

                However, I agree with Mr. Kiefer that Powerpro is *really* much more convenient! It would take me weeks to create an autohotkey bar that would match a powerpro bar.

                So, I have powerpro on my new computer, with a wonderful powerful bar docked right across the top of the screen (with an always-visible volume-slider control)! I just can't let go of Powerpo.

                Also, I've so many scripts now in Powerpro, they would all have to be converted anyway...

                In short, I love powerpro, and the only reasons I can think of as to why it isn't more popular are:
                1. It is not open-source
                2. It has no real forum - just this Yahoo Group
                3. It releases no new versions (as has been related already)
                4. You hardly ever see it mentioned on any of the freeware sites.

                However, I did write a custom user lexer for Notepad++ and submitted it for their user-lexer repository. You can see it at: http://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/notepad-plus/index.php?title=User_Defined_Language_Files


                --- In power-pro@yahoogroups.com, "brucexs" <brucexs@...> wrote:
                >
                > swozh (Sean) still present in spirit in the Tray icon plugin --- it is based on ideas in his AHK script!
                >
                > --- In power-pro@yahoogroups.com, "quanticworks" <quanticworks@> wrote:
                > >
                > > Here's my input,
                > >
                > > It's mind blowing that Powerpro lives under the "shadow" for so many years.
                > > Instead of getting more users, the number is getting down...
                > > So many great people in here, and we don't see almost anyone hanging around more.
                > > Entropy stopped dev work and we never heard anything more from him.
                > > The always present and helpful Sheri, gone at the same time...
                > > Bruce, I admire you by your love with powerpro and by being always here to help.
                > > I wish we would see some of them more often. swozh, mockey and all the others that showed what can be made with powerpro.
                > >
                > > Cheers and a big thank you to you all!
                > >
                > > --- In power-pro@yahoogroups.com, "brucexs" <brucexs@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > Thanks for your comments. Here are my thoughts:
                > > >
                > > > I think you hit the nail on the head by noting that AHK has many more users. Most of the useful things created for PPro in the last few years were done by Entrotopy Reduction through plugins. And the deficiencies you mention could be corrected by plugins. But nobody is interested in writing plugins for software that has such a small user base.
                > > >
                > > > As I understand where MS is going with Windows 8, PowerPro will continue to work fine as a desktop app. It will never be able to interact with the new Windows interface. That would require a total rewrite. It would also be pointless, as the things PPro does don't make sense in the touch new interface.
                > > >
                > > > It would take someone many months to understand enough of the PPro code to do something useful with PPro itself. If someone was interested in adding new features, plugins are almost certainly the way to go.
                > > >
                > > > I was missing access to tray icons and so wrote a plugin to handle that. I'll probably write another plugin to handle desktop icon save and restore, which I sometime miss. I cannot think of any useful, existing functionality that is missing after that. For example, I think the new Windows file dialogs replace would PowerPro did to help in older versions of Windows.
                > > >
                > > > Thanks again for you positive feedback and thoughtful comments.
                > > >
                > > > --- In power-pro@yahoogroups.com, "phkiefer" <philippkiefer@> w
                > > > > Just received an e-mail from someone who must have read here about my partial move from PPro to Autohotkey, asking me to share some of my new AHK code. This made me consider whether PowerPro is now truly doomed.
                > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > To me this is tragic as it's always done everything it needed to do for me. It was only when I needed more control over hotkeys (running separate code on key / button down and key / button up events) than PPro could offer natively and after running into bugs in the KeyTrap and MouseTrap plugins that I no longer wanted to work around (confounded by their rather unintuitive syntax) that I started looking elsewhere and have since settled on Autohotkey to cover PPro's few shortcomings.
                > > > >
                > > > > I have since been amazed at how much more convenient and to the point PowerPro is compared to AHK, which has a user base at least 50 times that of PPro. In some respects PPro is even more up to date, even though there haven't been any major updates for years. For example, AHK still can't set the volume on post-XP Windows natively. Your work really stands out, Bruce! To think that you developed this powerhouse all on your own truly boggles the mind. :-)
                > > > >
                > > > > Consequently, I have ported to AHK only what was absolutely necessary and there is now much chatter going back an forth between AHK and PPro via COPYDATA messages / the PPCOMServer plugin. The transition was a painful process and I dread the day when more functions of PPro may become outdated.
                > > > >
                > > > > It's too bad that you consider the code too messy to allow anyone else to tend it, but of course the choice is yours. If the user base was more substantial there would probably have been a much greater outcry, but as it is it seems PPro will die a quiet and slow death... Sad, but you know best.
                > > > >
                > > > > Anyway many thanks for all your hard work. If you ever decide to accept donations again, let me know (just think of your grandchildren... ;-)).
                > > > >
                > > > > Phil
                > > > >
                > > > > --- In power-pro@yahoogroups.com, "brucexs" <brucexs@> wrote:
                > > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > > > No, this was discussed already some years ago and I gave my reasons. You probably find them if you search, but in summary the source is in no shape to be made open source.
                > > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > > > --- In power-pro@yahoogroups.com, "tedbaxer" <tedbaxer@> wrote:
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > > Sorry, but no.
                > > > > > > >
                > > > > > > > In fact, there have been no substantive updates for several years. I have corrected a few issues related to Win 7, and with help of others updated a dll or two to 64 bit to work in 64 bit windows, but I don't plan to do any more.
                > > > > > > >
                > > > > > > > PowerPro started as a 16 bit win 3.1 program called Stiletto almost 20 years ago! But it's now at the end of it's evolution.
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > Is there any chance, that you make PP open source? Many people worked very hard and long to develope own scripts. And if one day a Windows-version is in the world and PP dont work with it, than all the work is lost.
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > What do you think, Bruce? Open source oder not open source?
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > (sorry, very bad english)
                > > > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > >
                > > >
                > >
                >
              • jevisick
                ... These are more symptoms than causes - the real problem for a program like PowerPro is that it doesn t match the current paradigm. When personal computers
                Message 7 of 25 , Jun 25, 2012
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                  > In short, I love powerpro, and the only reasons I can think of
                  > as to why it isn't more popular are:
                  > 1. It is not open-source
                  > 2. It has no real forum - just this Yahoo Group
                  > 3. It releases no new versions (as has been related already)
                  > 4. You hardly ever see it mentioned on any of the freeware sites.

                  These are more symptoms than causes - the real problem for a program like PowerPro is that it doesn't match the current paradigm.

                  When personal computers first became popular, they fit the "Model-T" paradigm: anyone could tinker with them, and users in fact *expected* to have to tinker with them to go where they wanted to go. Batch and programming languages were an integral part of the package, and learning to use DOS commands was essential. It was natural to search for ways to do things better, and programs like 4dos (memory test!) and QuickBASIC were popular.

                  Then came the "Mainstream Automobile" paradigm. Everyone wanted one, and everyone could afford one. Some people learned to work under the hood, and most people knew where the radiator was and how to check the brake fluid or change the oil. There were many options, such as automatic or manual transmission and power or manual windows. Programs came with macro languages and many options that users could set to make the computer look and work as they wanted them to.

                  Gradually, the "Lexus" paradigm evolved. Manufacturers assumed that consumers just wanted to get in and drive: they didn't need or want to know how the car worked. Every car started to come with automatic transmission, air conditioning, power windows and a price tag to match. Windows became less configurable, and there were far fewer options among mainstream software. Only hardcore hackers and programmers felt the need to dig deeper.

                  Today, we have the "bus" paradigm. When you take the bus, do you try to drive it? Do you decide what streets it takes, or where it stops? Of course not: you just get on and go where the bus goes. The computer of today is little more than a Web browser in a box. Microsoft Office is basically the only software anyone knows, and many people don't even know that. Young people who've grown up with computers may not know how to open an Explorer window, let alone how to use a command line or write a macro.

                  Bus riders have no use for PowerPro - they have no idea even why they could want it. AHK does a little better because more people remember pre-Lexus days and have some idea that a macro might be a good idea.

                  To even understand why you would want PowerPro, you basically have to have once owned a Model T--or at least a pre-1990s Honda--and have the idea that the bus isn't as good as a vehicle that went where you wanted to go, when you wanted to go there, the way you choose. That user base has gotten small, indeed. Furthermore, because you can't download it and five minutes later write a superficial review of its functions, its ability to get noticed more broadly is limited.

                  But, hallelujah, it still works in Win7! ;-)
                • quanticworks
                  fantastic post! thanks jevisick! ;)
                  Message 8 of 25 , Jun 25, 2012
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                    fantastic post! thanks jevisick! ;)

                    --- In power-pro@yahoogroups.com, "jevisick" <junqueposte@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > > In short, I love powerpro, and the only reasons I can think of
                    > > as to why it isn't more popular are:
                    > > 1. It is not open-source
                    > > 2. It has no real forum - just this Yahoo Group
                    > > 3. It releases no new versions (as has been related already)
                    > > 4. You hardly ever see it mentioned on any of the freeware sites.
                    >
                    > These are more symptoms than causes - the real problem for a program like PowerPro is that it doesn't match the current paradigm.
                    >
                    > When personal computers first became popular, they fit the "Model-T" paradigm: anyone could tinker with them, and users in fact *expected* to have to tinker with them to go where they wanted to go. Batch and programming languages were an integral part of the package, and learning to use DOS commands was essential. It was natural to search for ways to do things better, and programs like 4dos (memory test!) and QuickBASIC were popular.
                    >
                    > Then came the "Mainstream Automobile" paradigm. Everyone wanted one, and everyone could afford one. Some people learned to work under the hood, and most people knew where the radiator was and how to check the brake fluid or change the oil. There were many options, such as automatic or manual transmission and power or manual windows. Programs came with macro languages and many options that users could set to make the computer look and work as they wanted them to.
                    >
                    > Gradually, the "Lexus" paradigm evolved. Manufacturers assumed that consumers just wanted to get in and drive: they didn't need or want to know how the car worked. Every car started to come with automatic transmission, air conditioning, power windows and a price tag to match. Windows became less configurable, and there were far fewer options among mainstream software. Only hardcore hackers and programmers felt the need to dig deeper.
                    >
                    > Today, we have the "bus" paradigm. When you take the bus, do you try to drive it? Do you decide what streets it takes, or where it stops? Of course not: you just get on and go where the bus goes. The computer of today is little more than a Web browser in a box. Microsoft Office is basically the only software anyone knows, and many people don't even know that. Young people who've grown up with computers may not know how to open an Explorer window, let alone how to use a command line or write a macro.
                    >
                    > Bus riders have no use for PowerPro - they have no idea even why they could want it. AHK does a little better because more people remember pre-Lexus days and have some idea that a macro might be a good idea.
                    >
                    > To even understand why you would want PowerPro, you basically have to have once owned a Model T--or at least a pre-1990s Honda--and have the idea that the bus isn't as good as a vehicle that went where you wanted to go, when you wanted to go there, the way you choose. That user base has gotten small, indeed. Furthermore, because you can't download it and five minutes later write a superficial review of its functions, its ability to get noticed more broadly is limited.
                    >
                    > But, hallelujah, it still works in Win7! ;-)
                    >
                  • brother.gabriel
                    Honestly, I don t think Powerpro has to die a slow death . I mean, look at this - powerpro runs very well on Windows 7. Bruce, I know you say that it is no
                    Message 9 of 25 , Jun 26, 2012
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                      Honestly, I don't think Powerpro has to "die a slow death". I mean, look at this - powerpro runs very well on Windows 7. Bruce, I know you say that it is no longer being developed - but that isn't necessarily true. Every time you compile a new build of the powerpro.exe, powerpro is developed. (I *really* appreciate these periodic, unsolicited releases, by the way, and I know the other pp users do too.)

                      I think that jevisick is right insofar as the majority of users are "riding the bus" - but there are a sufficient amount of users out there who are power users like us. These folks are usually the developers and designers and programmers of what the "bus riders" use. Without us, and without the utilites *we* use to make good software, there would be no bus! I think powerpro has a future.

                      Powerpro is an incredible productivity tool. There is nothing like this out there! Powerpro does what a thousand other programs wish they could do. The ability to make custom toolbars is absolutely awesome! This in itself is what brought me to powerpro, and it is a big selling point. What is more, powerpro will work with ANY other program. Powerpro and AutoIt and AutoHotkey will all work together. The best thing is to use PowerPro's wonderfully quick and simple interface and then anything and everything else can go under the hood.

                      One thing that makes AutoIt and Autohotkey so popular is that you can compile their scripts. Powerpro doesn't have this, so it limits the scope of powerpro's distribution, but still, on the productivity level, powerpro, with its usability and configurability, if more known, would become popular in its own right and not as a competitor.

                      Since powerpro is so viable - even today - even now! - then it is simply unknown and undersold. There is no code for it in the code repositories - there is no mention of it in the freeware sites, there are no lexers for it for the code editors. Nobody knows about powerpro! Occasionally I see it mentioned in the Autohotkey forum, however.

                      If Powerpro is to become known, I think the first thing for it to get is a new website - something modern and clean and up to date, with an rss feed, a code repository, a forum (however, I do love this yahoo group), and a download section - like every other great program has.

                      Powerpro already has a nice user base. Of course, it isn't what Autohotkey has - but they have everything that powerpro doesn't with regards to being known. I think if powerpro had "more" then it might re-attract some of its lost members (like Sherri, for example, and perhaps even entropy...).

                      As for developement, even if all that is done is a few bug fixes, that is enough for powerpro to qualify as "in development". The new releases would have to be formalized, however, with real release packages (installers, updated docs, etc), and I don't think that would be much work after it is automated (with powerpro!).

                      For the forum, I would be willing to bet that we could turn a few of y'all into moderators...

                      In summary, I don't think Powerpro has to die, and I also think Powerpro could be made into something everybody wants.


                      --- In power-pro@yahoogroups.com, "quanticworks" <quanticworks@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > fantastic post! thanks jevisick! ;)
                      >
                      > --- In power-pro@yahoogroups.com, "jevisick" <junqueposte@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > > In short, I love powerpro, and the only reasons I can think of
                      > > > as to why it isn't more popular are:
                      > > > 1. It is not open-source
                      > > > 2. It has no real forum - just this Yahoo Group
                      > > > 3. It releases no new versions (as has been related already)
                      > > > 4. You hardly ever see it mentioned on any of the freeware sites.
                      > >
                      > > These are more symptoms than causes - the real problem for a program like PowerPro is that it doesn't match the current paradigm.
                      > >
                      > > When personal computers first became popular, they fit the "Model-T" paradigm: anyone could tinker with them, and users in fact *expected* to have to tinker with them to go where they wanted to go. Batch and programming languages were an integral part of the package, and learning to use DOS commands was essential. It was natural to search for ways to do things better, and programs like 4dos (memory test!) and QuickBASIC were popular.
                      > >
                      > > Then came the "Mainstream Automobile" paradigm. Everyone wanted one, and everyone could afford one. Some people learned to work under the hood, and most people knew where the radiator was and how to check the brake fluid or change the oil. There were many options, such as automatic or manual transmission and power or manual windows. Programs came with macro languages and many options that users could set to make the computer look and work as they wanted them to.
                      > >
                      > > Gradually, the "Lexus" paradigm evolved. Manufacturers assumed that consumers just wanted to get in and drive: they didn't need or want to know how the car worked. Every car started to come with automatic transmission, air conditioning, power windows and a price tag to match. Windows became less configurable, and there were far fewer options among mainstream software. Only hardcore hackers and programmers felt the need to dig deeper.
                      > >
                      > > Today, we have the "bus" paradigm. When you take the bus, do you try to drive it? Do you decide what streets it takes, or where it stops? Of course not: you just get on and go where the bus goes. The computer of today is little more than a Web browser in a box. Microsoft Office is basically the only software anyone knows, and many people don't even know that. Young people who've grown up with computers may not know how to open an Explorer window, let alone how to use a command line or write a macro.
                      > >
                      > > Bus riders have no use for PowerPro - they have no idea even why they could want it. AHK does a little better because more people remember pre-Lexus days and have some idea that a macro might be a good idea.
                      > >
                      > > To even understand why you would want PowerPro, you basically have to have once owned a Model T--or at least a pre-1990s Honda--and have the idea that the bus isn't as good as a vehicle that went where you wanted to go, when you wanted to go there, the way you choose. That user base has gotten small, indeed. Furthermore, because you can't download it and five minutes later write a superficial review of its functions, its ability to get noticed more broadly is limited.
                      > >
                      > > But, hallelujah, it still works in Win7! ;-)
                      > >
                      >
                    • brucexs
                      A very interesting and thoughtful post. Thanks. I would add one more thought: AHK has a very focussed user community: people who want to automate. But
                      Message 10 of 25 , Jun 26, 2012
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                        A very interesting and thoughtful post. Thanks.

                        I would add one more thought: AHK has a very focussed user community: people who want to automate.

                        But PowerPro is all over the map.. It looks like a toolbar/hot key program, and that is how it was reviewed by when such things were popular.

                        But actually is is much too complicated for most users who just want toolbars and hotkeys.

                        But the tool bar emphasis, as well as the other features for dealing with the Windows interface, are things that an automation person would not care about and would see as needless overhead.

                        So PowerPro is in a no mans land (or no users land).



                        --- In power-pro@yahoogroups.com, "jevisick" <junqueposte@...> wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        > > In short, I love powerpro, and the only reasons I can think of
                        > > as to why it isn't more popular are:
                        > > 1. It is not open-source
                        > > 2. It has no real forum - just this Yahoo Group
                        > > 3. It releases no new versions (as has been related already)
                        > > 4. You hardly ever see it mentioned on any of the freeware sites.
                        >
                        > These are more symptoms than causes - the real problem for a program like PowerPro is that it doesn't match the current paradigm.
                        >
                        > When personal computers first became popular, they fit the "Model-T" paradigm: anyone could tinker with them, and users in fact *expected* to have to tinker with them to go where they wanted to go. Batch and programming languages were an integral part of the package, and learning to use DOS commands was essential. It was natural to search for ways to do things better, and programs like 4dos (memory test!) and QuickBASIC were popular.
                        >
                        > Then came the "Mainstream Automobile" paradigm. Everyone wanted one, and everyone could afford one. Some people learned to work under the hood, and most people knew where the radiator was and how to check the brake fluid or change the oil. There were many options, such as automatic or manual transmission and power or manual windows. Programs came with macro languages and many options that users could set to make the computer look and work as they wanted them to.
                        >
                        > Gradually, the "Lexus" paradigm evolved. Manufacturers assumed that consumers just wanted to get in and drive: they didn't need or want to know how the car worked. Every car started to come with automatic transmission, air conditioning, power windows and a price tag to match. Windows became less configurable, and there were far fewer options among mainstream software. Only hardcore hackers and programmers felt the need to dig deeper.
                        >
                        > Today, we have the "bus" paradigm. When you take the bus, do you try to drive it? Do you decide what streets it takes, or where it stops? Of course not: you just get on and go where the bus goes. The computer of today is little more than a Web browser in a box. Microsoft Office is basically the only software anyone knows, and many people don't even know that. Young people who've grown up with computers may not know how to open an Explorer window, let alone how to use a command line or write a macro.
                        >
                        > Bus riders have no use for PowerPro - they have no idea even why they could want it. AHK does a little better because more people remember pre-Lexus days and have some idea that a macro might be a good idea.
                        >
                        > To even understand why you would want PowerPro, you basically have to have once owned a Model T--or at least a pre-1990s Honda--and have the idea that the bus isn't as good as a vehicle that went where you wanted to go, when you wanted to go there, the way you choose. That user base has gotten small, indeed. Furthermore, because you can't download it and five minutes later write a superficial review of its functions, its ability to get noticed more broadly is limited.
                        >
                        > But, hallelujah, it still works in Win7! ;-)
                        >
                      • brother.gabriel
                        Hmmm, yes, powerpro is a bit complicated - but that is what I love about it! I would say rather, that Powerpro is the automation man s interface to the
                        Message 11 of 25 , Jun 26, 2012
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                          Hmmm, yes, powerpro is a bit complicated - but that is what I love about it! I would say rather, that Powerpro is the automation man's interface to the computer. It does all the things you wish your computer could do in the first place. The toolbars and hotkeys are there just to initiate the automation sequences. If an automation person didn't need toolbars and hotkeys, then what good is a mouse and keyboard, anyway?

                          With Powerpro, I can sit at my computer and have the commands I need the most right where I want them, the way I want them, and they are always there. With the ppconfig, I don't even have to spend the time to learn the scripts in order to get those commands.

                          Again, for being "complicated" - have you ever tried Mouser's (Donation Coder) LaunchBarCommander? Hooo! I'd rather do Powerpro - it's easier in my opinion!

                          For the "little" users, what if there were a simplified version of the ppconfig that just configured hotkeys and toolbars to launch programs - that is all the "bus riders" would want - then they could explore the better features if they wished. But really, powerpro doesn't need bus riders, anyway - it needs power users and automation guys and developers.

                          Another mighty feature of powerpro is being able to run a custom function from a script file and not just the entire script. This is sooooo wonderful! And it is only an afterthought for Autohotkey. The reason it works so well for Powerpro is because Powerpro is "always on" - like a service (maybe it would better as a real service?).

                          I am not convinced that Powerpro should die.

                          --- In power-pro@yahoogroups.com, "brucexs" <brucexs@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > A very interesting and thoughtful post. Thanks.
                          >
                          > I would add one more thought: AHK has a very focussed user community: people who want to automate.
                          >
                          > But PowerPro is all over the map.. It looks like a toolbar/hot key program, and that is how it was reviewed by when such things were popular.
                          >
                          > But actually is is much too complicated for most users who just want toolbars and hotkeys.
                          >
                          > But the tool bar emphasis, as well as the other features for dealing with the Windows interface, are things that an automation person would not care about and would see as needless overhead.
                          >
                          > So PowerPro is in a no mans land (or no users land).
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > --- In power-pro@yahoogroups.com, "jevisick" <junqueposte@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > > In short, I love powerpro, and the only reasons I can think of
                          > > > as to why it isn't more popular are:
                          > > > 1. It is not open-source
                          > > > 2. It has no real forum - just this Yahoo Group
                          > > > 3. It releases no new versions (as has been related already)
                          > > > 4. You hardly ever see it mentioned on any of the freeware sites.
                          > >
                          > > These are more symptoms than causes - the real problem for a program like PowerPro is that it doesn't match the current paradigm.
                          > >
                          > > When personal computers first became popular, they fit the "Model-T" paradigm: anyone could tinker with them, and users in fact *expected* to have to tinker with them to go where they wanted to go. Batch and programming languages were an integral part of the package, and learning to use DOS commands was essential. It was natural to search for ways to do things better, and programs like 4dos (memory test!) and QuickBASIC were popular.
                          > >
                          > > Then came the "Mainstream Automobile" paradigm. Everyone wanted one, and everyone could afford one. Some people learned to work under the hood, and most people knew where the radiator was and how to check the brake fluid or change the oil. There were many options, such as automatic or manual transmission and power or manual windows. Programs came with macro languages and many options that users could set to make the computer look and work as they wanted them to.
                          > >
                          > > Gradually, the "Lexus" paradigm evolved. Manufacturers assumed that consumers just wanted to get in and drive: they didn't need or want to know how the car worked. Every car started to come with automatic transmission, air conditioning, power windows and a price tag to match. Windows became less configurable, and there were far fewer options among mainstream software. Only hardcore hackers and programmers felt the need to dig deeper.
                          > >
                          > > Today, we have the "bus" paradigm. When you take the bus, do you try to drive it? Do you decide what streets it takes, or where it stops? Of course not: you just get on and go where the bus goes. The computer of today is little more than a Web browser in a box. Microsoft Office is basically the only software anyone knows, and many people don't even know that. Young people who've grown up with computers may not know how to open an Explorer window, let alone how to use a command line or write a macro.
                          > >
                          > > Bus riders have no use for PowerPro - they have no idea even why they could want it. AHK does a little better because more people remember pre-Lexus days and have some idea that a macro might be a good idea.
                          > >
                          > > To even understand why you would want PowerPro, you basically have to have once owned a Model T--or at least a pre-1990s Honda--and have the idea that the bus isn't as good as a vehicle that went where you wanted to go, when you wanted to go there, the way you choose. That user base has gotten small, indeed. Furthermore, because you can't download it and five minutes later write a superficial review of its functions, its ability to get noticed more broadly is limited.
                          > >
                          > > But, hallelujah, it still works in Win7! ;-)
                          > >
                          >
                        • patrenet
                          Hi, I m mostly a silent reader on this forum but feel exactly the same than all of you. PP is definitively an incredible tool for the day to day activity. I
                          Message 12 of 25 , Jun 27, 2012
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                            Hi,

                            I'm mostly a silent reader on this forum but feel exactly the same than all of you.
                            PP is definitively an incredible tool for the day to day activity.
                            I belong to a tech support team and been using it for at least 10 years, mainly through bars, hotkeys and quite simple scripts like:
                            - pressing CTRL key twice to open (when not running) or set active the Notepad++ window (for logs analysis, ...)
                            - pressing ALT key twice to open or set active my Keynote notepad tool
                            - providing contextual menu on log files to open specifig log debug tool
                            - showing a very small clock to get current system time when recording screen activity with Camstudio, this to link time & logs
                            - to remind me the lunch time every day :-)
                            - getting the current Week nb displayed in a bar
                            - getting organized bar for important PDF files, usefull tools,
                            - moving windows to a left/middle/right screen with left/middle/right mouse click on a icon (I'm getting 3 screens)
                            - using shortcut to connect (Putty) to lab systems or to set in foreground relevant Putty session if already running
                            - calling short prefined text string (email, list of email, signature, ...) using "=" as calling key ("=si" to get my signature, "=re" to get classic best regard & name sentence, =pp to quote email ...)

                            I do so many things that I feel lost when being in front of a computer w/o my PP environment.

                            I'm frustrated when observing people loosing so much time on tasks which could be automated with PP :-)

                            I've also created a very small toolbar for my wife to delete specific temporary files which was blockinig one of her software. This was very simple when considering the portability of PP ( a super feature)

                            Main PP quality for me:
                            - transparent for OS
                            - portable
                            - small
                            - easy config file backup
                            - huge possibilities

                            I fear the time PP will no longer work and be happy that it appears to work on W7 (I'm still on XP)

                            I'm trying as well to be an embassador for PP but not many people feel the advantage a such tool. It's crazy !

                            So, Bruce, a very big thanks for this tool.
                            I wish to be using it for a long time.
                          • nospam0123456us
                            I m also an enthusiast user of PowerPro, I use it on all my windows computers and virtual appliance... I like it because all i need for automation, shortkey,
                            Message 13 of 25 , Jun 27, 2012
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                              I'm also an enthusiast user of PowerPro, I use it on all my windows
                              computers and virtual appliance...
                              I like it because all i need for automation, shortkey, menu, launch bar,
                              notes, clipboard history, folder shortcut is in a single software. I it
                              took me a bunch of time to have stable configuration and i continue to
                              learn reading the forum and the old posts.

                              The major point is that is not a software but an integrated suite of
                              tools that make your life easier if you have a good brain.

                              To use PowerPro you must keep it mind those principles
                              - Analyze (understand) what you do [When you want to automate]
                              - Focus on what you need [When you add new stuff]
                              - Remember what you have done [When you use powerpro]
                              - Do some cleaning time to time [Every Spring ;)]


                              I tried to convince people to use it but all claim that it is too
                              complicated, not multi-language, ugly and not ready out of the box.
                              Some use configuration i made/maintain and they mainly add/remove
                              shortcut in predefined bar and do some macro hot-key but nothing more.

                              The configuration pane is horribly complex !
                              Acceptance could be better with a very simple starting screen with nice
                              colorful button is missing.
                              [HotKEY and Scheduller] [Bar and Menu]
                              [Desktop and media] [Notes]
                              [Advanced config]

                              Independent windows instead of TAB.
                              Some ready to use templates
                              Macro recorder and a drag/drop context finder (like XKill).

                              I also miss a lot an aggregated grid for notes and a good multi monitor
                              support.


                              Even I can replace PP functions but i need many disparate softwares or
                              scripts... I can not find a satisfying replacement for PP and hope it
                              will work for a long time....

                              AHK is probably beter for automation and dialog support but i hate the
                              syntax and you can be lost as it is script based and not common
                              configuration can be seen. Replacing PP script can be done but the easy
                              bar menu are not covered easily.

                              AutoIt 3.0 have beter syntax and is more modular that AHK but hotkey
                              are not so easy to define.

                              I like winbatch but it is too expensive for personal use.


                              ----------- Quote about PowerPro 5 year ago in Total Commander Forum
                              ------------
                              "The problem with PowerPro is that it's too much Pro, it just can do
                              too much so it's really easy to lose overview and interest, even if you
                              try hard...

                              Human brain is simply not suited to remember abstract things like
                              "please start notepad when pressing N and P while cursor is in the top
                              left corner of the screen and it's 7am and it's Thursday. On Friday
                              please start UltraEdit instead". On Saturday please shutdown my computer
                              when I press with middlemouse button on shutdown button in systembar.
                              If notepad is open don't shut down but start Winamp instead. "



                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • brucexs
                              ... Possibly this could be done with scripting? What is a notes grid? ... Not sure what you most especially miss for multi-monitor support. ... These are
                              Message 14 of 25 , Jun 28, 2012
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                                > I also miss a lot an aggregated grid for notes and a good multi monitor


                                Possibly this could be done with scripting? What is a notes grid?

                                > a good multi monitor
                                Not sure what you most especially miss for multi-monitor support.


                                >
                                > The configuration pane is horribly complex !
                                > Acceptance could be better with a very simple starting screen with nice
                                > colorful button is missing.
                                > [HotKEY and Scheduller] [Bar and Menu]
                                > [Desktop and media] [Notes]
                                > [Advanced config]
                                >
                                > Independent windows instead of TAB.
                                > Some ready to use templates
                                > Macro recorder and a drag/drop context finder (like XKill).

                                These are good ideas (except for maybe macro recording) that people often bring up, but it is much harder to design something simple (and useful) than something overcomplicated (and useful).

                                I have neither the interest in nor the skills to revisit the PowerPro config interface, but if someone wanted to try, I could probably develop a dll interface to the key parts of the pcf file (clists, hot keys, scheduler).
                              • brucexs
                                ... Just from reading description, it seems X=xKill is like win.closeforce( under ) assigned to a mouse hotkey (eg ctrl-alt-clickright works for me)
                                Message 15 of 25 , Jun 28, 2012
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                                  > drag/drop context finder (like XKill).
                                  Just from reading description, it seems X=xKill is like

                                  win.closeforce("under")

                                  assigned to a mouse hotkey (eg ctrl-alt-clickright works for me)
                                • nospam0123456us
                                  ... Aggregated grid for notes is probably not the best term to describe a kind of table to manage and get all notes at once. I use for now the note menu
                                  Message 16 of 25 , Jun 29, 2012
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                                    > > I also miss a lot an aggregated grid for notes and a good multi monitor
                                    > Possibly this could be done with scripting? What is a notes grid?

                                    "Aggregated grid for notes" is probably not the best term to describe a kind of table to manage and get all notes at once.
                                    I use for now the note menu developed by Sheri and some tools to manage the note files but this is not as convenient as having a grid with filter (Spreadsheet/database like)

                                    >
                                    > > a good multi monitor
                                    > Not sure what you most especially miss for multi-monitor support.
                                    I use multi-monitor with extended desktop and 2 monitors/3 monitors
                                    What i miss,
                                    1)the ability to stick bar to dedicated part of a specific monitor.Let say centered top on monitor 2 and not only on main monitor.
                                    2) trouble with flicking and autohide when i move the mouse from one monitor to another.

                                    >
                                    > >
                                    > > The configuration pane is horribly complex !
                                    > > Acceptance could be better with a very simple starting screen with nice
                                    > > colorful button is missing.
                                    > > [HotKEY and Scheduller] [Bar and Menu]
                                    > > [Desktop and media] [Notes]
                                    > > [Advanced config]
                                    > >
                                    > > Independent windows instead of TAB.
                                    > > Some ready to use templates
                                    > > Macro recorder and a drag/drop context finder (like XKill).
                                    >
                                    > These are good ideas (except for maybe macro recording) that people often bring up, but it is much harder to design something simple (and useful) than something overcomplicated (and useful).
                                    >

                                    > I have neither the interest in nor the skills to revisit the PowerPro config interface, but if someone wanted to try, I could probably develop a dll interface to the key parts of the pcf file (clists, hot keys, scheduler).
                                    Do you have
                                    A) an api that can edit pcf directly with a kind of database schema
                                    B) a PCF plugin for powarpro ?
                                  • brother.gabriel
                                    Actually, I have an issue where mousetrap won t work on monitor #3. But I m not sure it is powerpro s problem. I have #3 plugged into the dvi port on my
                                    Message 17 of 25 , Jun 29, 2012
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                                      Actually, I have an issue where mousetrap won't work on monitor #3. But I'm not sure it is powerpro's problem. I have #3 plugged into the dvi port on my computer, and the other two monitors plugged into dvi ports on my graphics card. Sometimes things don't work right on monitor #3 (plugged into the computer directly).

                                      --- In power-pro@yahoogroups.com, "nospam0123456us" <nospam0123456us@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > > > I also miss a lot an aggregated grid for notes and a good multi monitor

                                      > > > a good multi monitor
                                      > > Not sure what you most especially miss for multi-monitor support.
                                      > I use multi-monitor with extended desktop and 2 monitors/3 monitors
                                      > What i miss,
                                      > 1)the ability to stick bar to dedicated part of a specific monitor.Let say centered top on monitor 2 and not only on main monitor.
                                      > 2) trouble with flicking and autohide when i move the mouse from one monitor to another.
                                    • brucexs
                                      I suspect note grid could be scripted with the note plugin and the dialog plugin for listview controls, but I am not sure if this is worth your effort. I
                                      Message 18 of 25 , Jun 29, 2012
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                                        I suspect note grid could be scripted with the note plugin and the dialog plugin for listview controls, but I am not sure if this is worth your effort. I have not looked at Sheri's script.

                                        I could develop an api to access pcf database. It would be via C functions. To justify me doing the work, I'd want to work with someone who is going to use it.

                                        If you wanted to do it with scripting, you could get at the command lists with cl functions for command lists and the import and export functions for text files. So I don't think a plugin for pcf access would add much to what can already be done.

                                        I have an extra monitor sitting in the basement on my old computer that I would like to attach to my ATI Radeon 5800 card. It says it can support up to 6, but it seems to have only one hardware connection in the back that looks like dvi or vga. I must be missing something. If I can figure it out, I will also want multi-monitors to work and will look into some of the issues.

                                        Not the mousetrap one, though, I am afraid.

                                        --- In power-pro@yahoogroups.com, "nospam0123456us" <nospam0123456us@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > > > I also miss a lot an aggregated grid for notes and a good multi monitor
                                        > > Possibly this could be done with scripting? What is a notes grid?
                                        >
                                        > "Aggregated grid for notes" is probably not the best term to describe a kind of table to manage and get all notes at once.
                                        > I use for now the note menu developed by Sheri and some tools to manage the note files but this is not as convenient as having a grid with filter (Spreadsheet/database like)
                                        >
                                        > >
                                        > > > a good multi monitor
                                        > > Not sure what you most especially miss for multi-monitor support.
                                        > I use multi-monitor with extended desktop and 2 monitors/3 monitors
                                        > What i miss,
                                        > 1)the ability to stick bar to dedicated part of a specific monitor.Let say centered top on monitor 2 and not only on main monitor.
                                        > 2) trouble with flicking and autohide when i move the mouse from one monitor to another.
                                        >
                                        > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > > The configuration pane is horribly complex !
                                        > > > Acceptance could be better with a very simple starting screen with nice
                                        > > > colorful button is missing.
                                        > > > [HotKEY and Scheduller] [Bar and Menu]
                                        > > > [Desktop and media] [Notes]
                                        > > > [Advanced config]
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Independent windows instead of TAB.
                                        > > > Some ready to use templates
                                        > > > Macro recorder and a drag/drop context finder (like XKill).
                                        > >
                                        > > These are good ideas (except for maybe macro recording) that people often bring up, but it is much harder to design something simple (and useful) than something overcomplicated (and useful).
                                        > >
                                        >
                                        > > I have neither the interest in nor the skills to revisit the PowerPro config interface, but if someone wanted to try, I could probably develop a dll interface to the key parts of the pcf file (clists, hot keys, scheduler).
                                        > Do you have
                                        > A) an api that can edit pcf directly with a kind of database schema
                                        > B) a PCF plugin for powarpro ?
                                        >
                                      • brother.gabriel
                                        Hey, Bruce - you know, there is a new thing called Sabrent USB External Video/Graphics to dvi/vga/hdmi adapter - it turns a usb port into a port for a
                                        Message 19 of 25 , Jun 29, 2012
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                                          Hey, Bruce - you know, there is a new thing called "Sabrent USB External Video/Graphics to dvi/vga/hdmi adapter" - it turns a usb port into a port for a monitor. They cost about $60 at Tiger Direct. Once you move to multiple monitors, it is hard to go back...

                                          You can hook up lots of monitors like that.

                                          --- In power-pro@yahoogroups.com, "brucexs" <brucexs@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > I suspect note grid could be scripted with the note plugin and the dialog plugin for listview controls, but I am not sure if this is worth your effort. I have not looked at Sheri's script.
                                          >
                                          > I could develop an api to access pcf database. It would be via C functions. To justify me doing the work, I'd want to work with someone who is going to use it.
                                          >
                                          > If you wanted to do it with scripting, you could get at the command lists with cl functions for command lists and the import and export functions for text files. So I don't think a plugin for pcf access would add much to what can already be done.
                                          >
                                          > I have an extra monitor sitting in the basement on my old computer that I would like to attach to my ATI Radeon 5800 card. It says it can support up to 6, but it seems to have only one hardware connection in the back that looks like dvi or vga. I must be missing something. If I can figure it out, I will also want multi-monitors to work and will look into some of the issues.
                                          >
                                          > Not the mousetrap one, though, I am afraid.
                                          >
                                          > --- In power-pro@yahoogroups.com, "nospam0123456us" <nospam0123456us@> wrote:
                                          > >
                                          > > > > I also miss a lot an aggregated grid for notes and a good multi monitor
                                          > > > Possibly this could be done with scripting? What is a notes grid?
                                          > >
                                          > > "Aggregated grid for notes" is probably not the best term to describe a kind of table to manage and get all notes at once.
                                          > > I use for now the note menu developed by Sheri and some tools to manage the note files but this is not as convenient as having a grid with filter (Spreadsheet/database like)
                                          > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > > > a good multi monitor
                                          > > > Not sure what you most especially miss for multi-monitor support.
                                          > > I use multi-monitor with extended desktop and 2 monitors/3 monitors
                                          > > What i miss,
                                          > > 1)the ability to stick bar to dedicated part of a specific monitor.Let say centered top on monitor 2 and not only on main monitor.
                                          > > 2) trouble with flicking and autohide when i move the mouse from one monitor to another.
                                          > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > The configuration pane is horribly complex !
                                          > > > > Acceptance could be better with a very simple starting screen with nice
                                          > > > > colorful button is missing.
                                          > > > > [HotKEY and Scheduller] [Bar and Menu]
                                          > > > > [Desktop and media] [Notes]
                                          > > > > [Advanced config]
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Independent windows instead of TAB.
                                          > > > > Some ready to use templates
                                          > > > > Macro recorder and a drag/drop context finder (like XKill).
                                          > > >
                                          > > > These are good ideas (except for maybe macro recording) that people often bring up, but it is much harder to design something simple (and useful) than something overcomplicated (and useful).
                                          > > >
                                          > >
                                          > > > I have neither the interest in nor the skills to revisit the PowerPro config interface, but if someone wanted to try, I could probably develop a dll interface to the key parts of the pcf file (clists, hot keys, scheduler).
                                          > > Do you have
                                          > > A) an api that can edit pcf directly with a kind of database schema
                                          > > B) a PCF plugin for powarpro ?
                                          > >
                                          >
                                        • brucexs
                                          It turns out my card seems to come in two models, one has two dvi ports and a smaller venting; mine has just one dvi but with larger venting. But both cards
                                          Message 20 of 25 , Jun 29, 2012
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                                            It turns out my card seems to come in two models, one has two dvi ports and a smaller venting; mine has just one dvi but with larger venting.

                                            But both cards include a displayport, and I can buy a similar vga-displayport adaptor to what you describe. So I will try that soon.


                                            > Hey, Bruce - you know, there is a new thing called "Sabrent USB External Video/Graphics to dvi/vga/hdmi adapter" - it turns a usb port into a port for a monitor. They cost about $60 at Tiger Direct. Once you move to multiple monitors, it is hard to go back...
                                            >
                                            > You can hook up lots of monitors like that.
                                            >
                                            > --- In power-pro@yahoogroups.com, "brucexs" <brucexs@> wrote:
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > I suspect note grid could be scripted with the note plugin and the dialog plugin for listview controls, but I am not sure if this is worth your effort. I have not looked at Sheri's script.
                                            > >
                                            > > I could develop an api to access pcf database. It would be via C functions. To justify me doing the work, I'd want to work with someone who is going to use it.
                                            > >
                                            > > If you wanted to do it with scripting, you could get at the command lists with cl functions for command lists and the import and export functions for text files. So I don't think a plugin for pcf access would add much to what can already be done.
                                            > >
                                            > > I have an extra monitor sitting in the basement on my old computer that I would like to attach to my ATI Radeon 5800 card. It says it can support up to 6, but it seems to have only one hardware connection in the back that looks like dvi or vga. I must be missing something. If I can figure it out, I will also want multi-monitors to work and will look into some of the issues.
                                            > >
                                            > > Not the mousetrap one, though, I am afraid.
                                            > >
                                            > > --- In power-pro@yahoogroups.com, "nospam0123456us" <nospam0123456us@> wrote:
                                            > > >
                                            > > > > > I also miss a lot an aggregated grid for notes and a good multi monitor
                                            > > > > Possibly this could be done with scripting? What is a notes grid?
                                            > > >
                                            > > > "Aggregated grid for notes" is probably not the best term to describe a kind of table to manage and get all notes at once.
                                            > > > I use for now the note menu developed by Sheri and some tools to manage the note files but this is not as convenient as having a grid with filter (Spreadsheet/database like)
                                            > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > > a good multi monitor
                                            > > > > Not sure what you most especially miss for multi-monitor support.
                                            > > > I use multi-monitor with extended desktop and 2 monitors/3 monitors
                                            > > > What i miss,
                                            > > > 1)the ability to stick bar to dedicated part of a specific monitor.Let say centered top on monitor 2 and not only on main monitor.
                                            > > > 2) trouble with flicking and autohide when i move the mouse from one monitor to another.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > > The configuration pane is horribly complex !
                                            > > > > > Acceptance could be better with a very simple starting screen with nice
                                            > > > > > colorful button is missing.
                                            > > > > > [HotKEY and Scheduller] [Bar and Menu]
                                            > > > > > [Desktop and media] [Notes]
                                            > > > > > [Advanced config]
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > > Independent windows instead of TAB.
                                            > > > > > Some ready to use templates
                                            > > > > > Macro recorder and a drag/drop context finder (like XKill).
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > These are good ideas (except for maybe macro recording) that people often bring up, but it is much harder to design something simple (and useful) than something overcomplicated (and useful).
                                            > > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > > > I have neither the interest in nor the skills to revisit the PowerPro config interface, but if someone wanted to try, I could probably develop a dll interface to the key parts of the pcf file (clists, hot keys, scheduler).
                                            > > > Do you have
                                            > > > A) an api that can edit pcf directly with a kind of database schema
                                            > > > B) a PCF plugin for powarpro ?
                                            > > >
                                            > >
                                            >
                                          • brother.gabriel
                                            Make sure it is an actual DVI port - I have seen some Dell computers that have a larger, more-pinned port to which you attach a splitter that equals to two dvi
                                            Message 21 of 25 , Jun 29, 2012
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                                              Make sure it is an actual DVI port - I have seen some Dell computers that have a larger, more-pinned port to which you attach a splitter that equals to two dvi connections for your two monitors. A real DVI port has a bunch of pins on one side, and a larger pin by itself on the other side (it might have a few small ones around it, but it is separate from the larger pin grouping).

                                              --- In power-pro@yahoogroups.com, "brucexs" <brucexs@...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              > It turns out my card seems to come in two models, one has two dvi ports and a smaller venting; mine has just one dvi but with larger venting.
                                              >
                                              > But both cards include a displayport, and I can buy a similar vga-displayport adaptor to what you describe. So I will try that soon.
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > > Hey, Bruce - you know, there is a new thing called "Sabrent USB External Video/Graphics to dvi/vga/hdmi adapter" - it turns a usb port into a port for a monitor. They cost about $60 at Tiger Direct. Once you move to multiple monitors, it is hard to go back...
                                              > >
                                              > > You can hook up lots of monitors like that.
                                              > >
                                              > > --- In power-pro@yahoogroups.com, "brucexs" <brucexs@> wrote:
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > > I suspect note grid could be scripted with the note plugin and the dialog plugin for listview controls, but I am not sure if this is worth your effort. I have not looked at Sheri's script.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > I could develop an api to access pcf database. It would be via C functions. To justify me doing the work, I'd want to work with someone who is going to use it.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > If you wanted to do it with scripting, you could get at the command lists with cl functions for command lists and the import and export functions for text files. So I don't think a plugin for pcf access would add much to what can already be done.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > I have an extra monitor sitting in the basement on my old computer that I would like to attach to my ATI Radeon 5800 card. It says it can support up to 6, but it seems to have only one hardware connection in the back that looks like dvi or vga. I must be missing something. If I can figure it out, I will also want multi-monitors to work and will look into some of the issues.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Not the mousetrap one, though, I am afraid.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > --- In power-pro@yahoogroups.com, "nospam0123456us" <nospam0123456us@> wrote:
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > > > I also miss a lot an aggregated grid for notes and a good multi monitor
                                              > > > > > Possibly this could be done with scripting? What is a notes grid?
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > "Aggregated grid for notes" is probably not the best term to describe a kind of table to manage and get all notes at once.
                                              > > > > I use for now the note menu developed by Sheri and some tools to manage the note files but this is not as convenient as having a grid with filter (Spreadsheet/database like)
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > a good multi monitor
                                              > > > > > Not sure what you most especially miss for multi-monitor support.
                                              > > > > I use multi-monitor with extended desktop and 2 monitors/3 monitors
                                              > > > > What i miss,
                                              > > > > 1)the ability to stick bar to dedicated part of a specific monitor.Let say centered top on monitor 2 and not only on main monitor.
                                              > > > > 2) trouble with flicking and autohide when i move the mouse from one monitor to another.
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > The configuration pane is horribly complex !
                                              > > > > > > Acceptance could be better with a very simple starting screen with nice
                                              > > > > > > colorful button is missing.
                                              > > > > > > [HotKEY and Scheduller] [Bar and Menu]
                                              > > > > > > [Desktop and media] [Notes]
                                              > > > > > > [Advanced config]
                                              > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > Independent windows instead of TAB.
                                              > > > > > > Some ready to use templates
                                              > > > > > > Macro recorder and a drag/drop context finder (like XKill).
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > These are good ideas (except for maybe macro recording) that people often bring up, but it is much harder to design something simple (and useful) than something overcomplicated (and useful).
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > > I have neither the interest in nor the skills to revisit the PowerPro config interface, but if someone wanted to try, I could probably develop a dll interface to the key parts of the pcf file (clists, hot keys, scheduler).
                                              > > > > Do you have
                                              > > > > A) an api that can edit pcf directly with a kind of database schema
                                              > > > > B) a PCF plugin for powarpro ?
                                              > > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > >
                                              >
                                            • brucexs
                                              Thanks, I ll look into that. But the monitor I am using now has a dvi cable and it seems to be using all the pins. It has been a pain trying to track down
                                              Message 22 of 25 , Jun 30, 2012
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                                                Thanks, I'll look into that. But the monitor I am using now has a dvi cable and it seems to be using all the pins. It has been a pain trying to track down the manual online. I guess I should go rummage through my old drawers to see if it came with a manual on a cd.

                                                --- In power-pro@yahoogroups.com, "brother.gabriel" <brgabriel@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > Make sure it is an actual DVI port - I have seen some Dell computers that have a larger, more-pinned port to which you attach a splitter that equals to two dvi connections for your two monitors. A real DVI port has a bunch of pins on one side, and a larger pin by itself on the other side (it might have a few small ones around it, but it is separate from the larger pin grouping).
                                                >
                                                > --- In power-pro@yahoogroups.com, "brucexs" <brucexs@> wrote:
                                                > >
                                                > > It turns out my card seems to come in two models, one has two dvi ports and a smaller venting; mine has just one dvi but with larger venting.
                                                > >
                                                > > But both cards include a displayport, and I can buy a similar vga-displayport adaptor to what you describe. So I will try that soon.
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > > > Hey, Bruce - you know, there is a new thing called "Sabrent USB External Video/Graphics to dvi/vga/hdmi adapter" - it turns a usb port into a port for a monitor. They cost about $60 at Tiger Direct. Once you move to multiple monitors, it is hard to go back...
                                                > > >
                                                > > > You can hook up lots of monitors like that.
                                                > > >
                                                > > > --- In power-pro@yahoogroups.com, "brucexs" <brucexs@> wrote:
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > > I suspect note grid could be scripted with the note plugin and the dialog plugin for listview controls, but I am not sure if this is worth your effort. I have not looked at Sheri's script.
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > > I could develop an api to access pcf database. It would be via C functions. To justify me doing the work, I'd want to work with someone who is going to use it.
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > > If you wanted to do it with scripting, you could get at the command lists with cl functions for command lists and the import and export functions for text files. So I don't think a plugin for pcf access would add much to what can already be done.
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > > I have an extra monitor sitting in the basement on my old computer that I would like to attach to my ATI Radeon 5800 card. It says it can support up to 6, but it seems to have only one hardware connection in the back that looks like dvi or vga. I must be missing something. If I can figure it out, I will also want multi-monitors to work and will look into some of the issues.
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > > Not the mousetrap one, though, I am afraid.
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > > --- In power-pro@yahoogroups.com, "nospam0123456us" <nospam0123456us@> wrote:
                                                > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > I also miss a lot an aggregated grid for notes and a good multi monitor
                                                > > > > > > Possibly this could be done with scripting? What is a notes grid?
                                                > > > > >
                                                > > > > > "Aggregated grid for notes" is probably not the best term to describe a kind of table to manage and get all notes at once.
                                                > > > > > I use for now the note menu developed by Sheri and some tools to manage the note files but this is not as convenient as having a grid with filter (Spreadsheet/database like)
                                                > > > > >
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > a good multi monitor
                                                > > > > > > Not sure what you most especially miss for multi-monitor support.
                                                > > > > > I use multi-monitor with extended desktop and 2 monitors/3 monitors
                                                > > > > > What i miss,
                                                > > > > > 1)the ability to stick bar to dedicated part of a specific monitor.Let say centered top on monitor 2 and not only on main monitor.
                                                > > > > > 2) trouble with flicking and autohide when i move the mouse from one monitor to another.
                                                > > > > >
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > The configuration pane is horribly complex !
                                                > > > > > > > Acceptance could be better with a very simple starting screen with nice
                                                > > > > > > > colorful button is missing.
                                                > > > > > > > [HotKEY and Scheduller] [Bar and Menu]
                                                > > > > > > > [Desktop and media] [Notes]
                                                > > > > > > > [Advanced config]
                                                > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > Independent windows instead of TAB.
                                                > > > > > > > Some ready to use templates
                                                > > > > > > > Macro recorder and a drag/drop context finder (like XKill).
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > These are good ideas (except for maybe macro recording) that people often bring up, but it is much harder to design something simple (and useful) than something overcomplicated (and useful).
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > I have neither the interest in nor the skills to revisit the PowerPro config interface, but if someone wanted to try, I could probably develop a dll interface to the key parts of the pcf file (clists, hot keys, scheduler).
                                                > > > > > Do you have
                                                > > > > > A) an api that can edit pcf directly with a kind of database schema
                                                > > > > > B) a PCF plugin for powarpro ?
                                                > > > > >
                                                > > > >
                                                > > >
                                                > >
                                                >
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